The BFL ASIC never left the BFL Lab therefor it was never "shipped".  Avalons where photographed being unpacked from their shipping containers. Really at a loss for words here. really coinjedi? Can't call this one yet? too close in your eyes? I will not be placing any more bets at betsofbitco.in seeing how you can be 100% correct with your wagers and have the payout in question. I can't bet like that. This is such a simple matter, the fact that coinjedi let JZ even briefly pause his decision on this statement is cause for concern. Imagine if something was actually, really close! how easily could coinjedi be manipulated one way or the other? |
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This video recently came out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSIand it's basically getting laughed at for the power consumption (i mean, the lights literally flicker at :17 as iCEBREAKER noticed 1st) and all my bets state 350 Mh/J. So in short yes, I expect to win all bets. For the record, I still expect to win my bet against Micon. (Though the deadline of June 30 is currently my biggest uncertainty - I did expect BFL to be late, but not that late.) The reason is simple: ASICMINER achieves 167 Mh/J at 130nm. Therefore merely scaling down their design to 65nm (which is BFL's process) should lead to 670 Mh/J, and my bet stipulates 350+ Mh/J. The BFL video shows a device doing 140 Mh/J, but that includes the inefficiency of the AC/DC power adapter (which is excluded from the bet), and it is affected by the believable explanation of the crappy DC/DC converter (which will be fixed per BFL), and this does not take into account the Jalapeno (which will likely be undervolted to increase power efficiency to fit under the 500mA limit per USB link - remember my bet specifies that only one of BFL's product lines has to beat 350 Mhash/J, not all of them.) If anybody disagree with me, feel free to bet on http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=665 where I also have 50 BTC on BFL's side do you have any interest on gambling with odds on an earlier date? how about your 100 coins vs. my 150 date: 5/15 same terms 3x non-BFL reports& 1 device 350Mh/J+ |
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with this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.0there is much renewed hope for BFL supporters. If anyone wants some 1:1 action on April shipping / 350 Mh/J+ and 5+ confirmed members rec'd I will bet up to 250 btc against that |
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Obviously Josh wants to say "shipped" because he's extremely pressured and stressed and whether he has "shipped" or not is the main metric of whether or not he is doing his job.
Shipped means, you know, on some kind of transport. Ship. Like on the water. Moving. That's where the word comes from at least.
I don't know why Josh complains about forum trolls picking apart everything he says, and then goes and makes such loose statements like "we've shipped" when they have a usable dev unit. It's begging for it. Who is really the troll..
Josh Zerlan, clearly, is extremely persuasive. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201301/are-you-being-manipulated-social-puppeteerread that link guys. please? JZ is a classic social puppeteer, the "The Self-Centered/Narcissist" variety fits him best, although he exudes elements of all. The self-centered, self-absorbed narcissist needs an adoring audience to fawn over them - ever pliant. There is no shortage of these individuals, including those who will fall for them and whatever it is they are peddling. Whether it is a new way of doing business (think Enron), a new religion (think Jonestown, Guyana), or a superior empire (Third Reich). The self-centered/narcissistic personality needs a willing audience to manipulate, no matter how small, so long as they are blindly obedient and deferential. As such, the narcissist often chooses a profession, guild, organization, occupation, or a job where he or she can manipulate others or the system like a puppeteer. Through their words and actions, intended to impress and seduce, they control lives, thoughts, and perceptions to achieve their objective.
They pull on your strings to make you believe in them, follow them, and act on their behalf. Their grandiosity and sense of entitlement has no bounds which, when coupled with their ability to manipulate others, shocks us [[[[[[[[ Micon insert: I think we are all shocked by Josh's actions on these boards. His outright disrespect, aimed at many different posters makes BFL customer and whistleblowers alike gasp. Our jaws drop at his brazen personal attacks.]]]]]]]]] They can be arrested snorting coke but still get reelected (e.g., Marion Barry); in high office they get charged with corruption yet manage to snag television time (think of Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich; they start wars with the ease of one starting a shower (think Saddam Hussein), or they become captains of industry (e.g., Jeffrey Skilling), at the expense of those who must be servile at all times to them.
In interpersonal relationships, they are always performing perception management so that they come out on top. In a personal setting, at home, spouses pay a heavy price. When they can no longer tolerate their self-centered husband or wife any more, they realize that all they have to show for their efforts and dedications is exhaustion and the feeling that they were used. They have little to show for their loyalty and unwavering fidelity, which was at times exacted from them, and there is no sense that they were ever truly appreciated. Betsofbetco.in / coinjedi please don't fall for this shit. It's so clear what the right answer is. IMO it is extremely weak that after observing some JZ spin in the BFL chat you put this statement in question. The evidence is overwhelming that BFL didn't ship. Damnit, this is exactly how I felt on Supreme Court "can the gay ppl marry" day... "Are we *really* arguing about this when the answer is so clear?" |
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Hello everyone,
As it is part of running a betting service, sometimes we have to make some decisions that will not please all of our users. This is certainly one of these cases. I agree that the bet description statements are barely satisfied but the bet is actually on "shipping" of a commercial product. To the best of our judgment the pictured device is still an internal development unit within the company premises, even if it is somehow "owned" by a non-employee. As far as I can see even BFL doesn't officially claim shipping. Under these circumstances we can not rule the statement as false. Our decision is currently not final and we will be listening your input for a few days before the final decision. Feel free to raise your opinion.
Ah ok I feel better. I cannot see anything but an extremely weak argument being made otherwise. I msg'd this personally to coinjedi, but it's worth posting publicly. IMO in the future follow the example in this betting thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135914 where we required 3x verified non-BFL user pix / hash rate test + a power rating of 350Mh/J or more efficient. When betting on a company that has taken 1000's of pre-orders and given the extreme popularity of this forum, multiple independent verification would be easy. With a company as sneaky and backhanded as BFL, IMO it's on BetsofBitcoin to reject vague wagers. Further more, I still have no clue how much I stand to win when I make bets there  |
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Disclosure: As I'm sure most of you know, I have many bets against BFL shipping, including a portion of this onejust saw this tweet: Bets of Bitcoin @betsofbitcoin 35m Do you think BFL "shipped" ASICS https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163261.0 … to satisfy this bet: http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=701 We would like your opinion. Details I cannot see any argument whatsoever for anything other than "true" This bet concerns the 3 Butterfly Labs Bitforce SC products announced here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87934.msg966886#msg966886 For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met: • Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee. • The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate. -- obviously nothing has been shipped -- there is a prototype still in BFL offices -- these are unverified screenshots -- and even by those screenshots they miss the 75% of advertised hashrate -- LukeJr. would certainly be considered a BFL employee given the amount of work he has done in this prototype stage. He is certainly not a normal customer I am quite disappointed that BetsofBitcoin seems to have almost fallen for more of JZ's spin...
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Neither micon or ender have any meaningful admin privileges. Ender is helpful and micon is a pro and representative. There is no problem with either of them playing.
Obviously this. They don't let me touch anything technologically important, and that's a fine rule IMO As a representative of the site & affiliate manager, I have a special avatar, an email, and the direct line to Seal Team 6. nothing more. Lol. Is it not way better for us to know where they are playing than not?. Pah.
with the anonymous nature of SwC, clearly it wouldn't be very hard for me to log in and play anon. IMO there is a level of trust that you must have in order to play or keep any meaningful bankroll on any site. In the case of many traditional sites before us, no matter what certification or commission approval they had, there was stealing and dishonesty. If you trust SealsWithClubs, you trust that I cannot see hole cards or in any other way manipulate the site. Further more I 100% declare on my honor, on my lovely newborn daughter, on all science & math that I cannot see holecards or cheat in any way, and have never gained any advantage over any player based on my standing at SealsWithClubs. |
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I believe I may have misinterpreted your feelings on BFL. It's your position that they aren't going to deliver anything at all, correct? By use of logical deduction, it appears you think it's possible they will deliver a device between May 30th and June 30th with an efficiency below 350mhash/joule but above 110mhash/Joule? Is that correct? If that's not the case, why don't you accept my bet?
If BFL doesn't deliver by June 30th, they are going bankrupt, regardless of if they are a scam or not. I'd have no issue giving you 5 coins at that point.
My beliefs vs what the market demands (or will give) are two very different things. If I believe BFL will never ship, but someone will bet me 25 coins vs. my 50 that BFL will ship in April, well of course I would take that, as if I'm right I get paid in 1 month. In these cases I can still be wrong and win. While I will plainly state my beliefs in my BFL scam thread, this thread is only about betting on BFL shipping dates. Both of us are going to try and get the most favorable terms from the other. I offered the 2 bets above because 1 was actually booked ~ 24 hrs ago, a clear indicator of the market, and 1 is what I believe an extrapolation of the first bet is when betting 1:1 and not 2:1. Someone please just keep track of these details so that if it gets down to it, I don't have to sort through a mess if I end up having to release the key one way or another. I trust you guys are gentlemen, but I have been hoping from the beginning that I don't have to do anything more complicated than determine the obvious and release a key uncontroversially if it becomes necessary. I am unwilling to provide arbitration services, and am unwilling to make more than a cursory effort to determine the winner, just as a matter of personal policy. Just be aware of the risk that if evaluating the winner ends up becoming too difficult or too indeterminate for me, the only option I'll be able to provide is to release both keys to a different arbitrator more willing to sort through it, which won't be ideal for anybody. You guys might want to start a shared Google Doc concisely describing what you've agreed to before any of the deadlines arrive, and once you both believe it is consistent with your understanding, PGP sign the text.
1) thanks very much for the btc-address tool. It's potential is enormous. Escrowing dumb bets is the tip of the iceberg IMO. Multi-factor private key storage is the real killer app here IMO. 2) thanks very much for acting as escrow. I highly doubt there will be any judgement calls on this matter. On the off chance there is any objection we can go to arbitration without you Mike. I have a feeling in all cases here the loser will send the winner the string. 3) I personally keep all the info in a cloud encrypted note service. |
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BFL's testing videos are so hot right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSInothing of substance here, no hashing, the lights dim at ~ :17 seconds, better chance of BFL offices catching on fire now, so that's good. Is there an ASIC chip even on that thing? What was that about "new boards?" |
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C'mon now, work with me here. You still plan on winning the bet with mrb right? If they release something with Avalon efficiency, a lot of people would be very angry, including me, but they wouldn't be considered a scam. They've already admit they can't meet the power estimate, at least not for now, perhaps not by June 30th either.
I am willing to make 2 wagers right now: 1) I just got 25 more coins down laying a guy 2-1 on April shipping. I am willing to do the same for you, your 5 coins vs. my 10, end of April strike date 200 Mh/J+ power rating 2) 5/30/2013 (2 full months from now!) strike date, 1-to-1 bet. My 5 coins vs. your 5 coins 200+ Mh/J power rating. Also these are open to anyone, for up to 250 coins. |
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Ok, found this a few posts up.
"by 5/15/2013 Butterfly Labs ships products to 3+ forum members unconnected to the company and the devices achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule"
Let's change to the following and shake on it
"by 6/30/2013 Butterfly Labs ships products to 3+ forum members unconnected to the company and the devices achieve 110+ Mhash/Joule"
5/30/13 & 200 Mhash/J and u got yourself a 5 coin bet! also it appears Mr. Teal and I have a bet that swelled to 75 coins total now, settling at the end of April, as he hit the hash with the agreed upon 25 extra coins: https://blockchain.info/address/1B3EAGAgXoALFd6o9762hitoCyH61JxF4Y |
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Well, you seem to have it figured out.  It's an interesting theory, but here are my thoughts: If they are pulling a long con, they really dropped the ball by not putting the flashy light video up a week ago and tearing away tons of cash from Avalon Batch 3 investors. An adept scammer would have taken a finished SC single case or the big box of fans, hooked up some nice LED lights and scripted out a bfgminer screen showing a hashrate of 1.5th on testnet in a box. Now imagine they did that the night before Avalon started taking 75 BTC Batch 3 preorders, which are scheduled for mid-may deliveries. Is the guy getting ready to buy 5 Avalons going to go through with that purchase the next morning, or is he going to say: "F that, I'm getting one of those fancy mini-rigs!" It just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't usually gamble unless I'm guaranteed to win, or guaranteed to "lose" somehow (aka bets with Matthew Wright). I don't think this bet is a guaranteed win but I think I have a pretty good chance here. I also don't like large amounts of egg on my face, so let's make this small. Would you take a 10btc(5btc each) bet with me on the same terms as mrb, minus any power requirements? I would need the power rating to wager. Otherwise they can ship whatever and if it hashes once you win. I'm down to bet 5 coins, if you want 2-1 I can do April at some agreed upon power rating. If you want 1-1 I can do May 20th at some agreed upon power rating. |
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so essentially I am giving you 2-1 on BFL shipping in April to 3+ at the agreed 350Mh/J+ terms. your additional 25 coins vs. my 50 coins now sitting in the hash. I wanted so badly to test the btc-address tool and rip those coins out of the blockchain, but you have offered me an amendment to the wager that I cannot refuse. I respect you for your gamble and i can't deny a man his action. http://blockexplorer.com/address/1BXEoc3tKs9APcZVEi5CLUDPgt3Xsw95gmhit the hash within 24 hrs and you have yourself an increased wager Mr. Teal. Sounds good to me. cool, hit the hash within the next ~ 12 hrs and ur on. Micon, have you conceded that you will lose your 80 btc bet to Mrb, or do you expect to still win that one as well? It appears you may have hedged that bet with some shipping date bets; have you fully covered the 80 btc bet with wins from those bets yet? I'm just curious... While you weren't able to convince all members that pirate was a ponzi, I believe your persistence did convince some people to stay away and I think it's important that we have vocal skeptics in this community. It's a bit sad looking at some of the older member's profiles who were heavy investors and seeing they haven't been online in months. I wonder how many of them lost their life savings and are in serious trouble... I do believe you are incorrect about BFL though. While their estimates have been way off, it's obvious that they are working to deliver a product. Pirate only accepted bitcoin and either believed that would be enough to prevent a conviction, or he was fooled into a larger ponzi himself. BFL accepts fiat and is running out of the US, making them a guaranteed target for investigation and prosecution in the event they didn't deliver. They've delivered FPGA products with a comparable delay in the past. What spurred you to start calling BFL a scam and do you still think they are a scam, or just overly optimistic about delivery dates? Thanks for the questions. I bet about ~ 150 coins on this matter to win ~300 total across all forms, this thread has most of the action I think, the prediction sites 2nd biggest, and private wagers are very small. I have basically won the 50 coins (25 each from me & Mr. Teal) so there is 1/3 back. Mr. Teal agree to wager an additional 25 coins at 2-1 by shipping an additional 25 to our escrow'd hash, but he hasn't done so yet and frankly I don't blame him if he doesn't. This video recently came out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSIand it's basically getting laughed at for the power consumption (i mean, the lights literally flicker at :17 as iCEBREAKER noticed 1st) and all my bets state 350 Mh/J. So in short yes, I expect to win all bets. now for the matter of "is BFL a scam, or are they simply inept?" There are 2 possible scenarios here, and 1 extreme falsehood the 1, obvious extreme falsehood: Everything is like BFL says. A random, nameless investor funded the company, and funded them so well they can flounder over and over and all salaries get paid, all equipment is bought, all office is nice. Pre-order money was taken in but never spent in any way. They have all of it waiting for a product to ship like any responsible corporation should. None has been used for salaries or rent or power (they are going to need lots of power it seems) or other utilities or business expenses. ASIC chips are juuuuuuust around the corner, everything is going to be fine even though it looks like they are in some stage of fisher-price my-first ASIC production play time set. Scenario 1 of the the 2 believable scenarios: BFL is gambling hard. They took in millions, JZ told u the cock-n-bull story of how they never use pre-order money for anything business expense and u knew he was lying and BitSyncom did the same thing, gambled pre-order money and came up hard six front line winner + the hardways bet. U figure BFL is doing the same thing, u don't care, u want them to gamble it up, buy a headshot wafer and chop and screw it into ASICs and u want to be first in line to take the headshot hashrate to the face. Ur gonna put Jally's all over ur office, $150 bitches that pay for themselves in a few weeks. so you hope they are testing, re-testing, layering, putting on the metal layers like a boss, bumping, wire-bonding, and doing all other manners to cook up an ASIC chip. This scene is supposed to make you believe they are hard at work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSI but once again take a look at what you see - a shitty laptop, a board of some such, it's not hashing anything, the lights flicker at :17, there is a multi-meter plugged in, that's cool, and once again just absolutely nothing of any substance, marketed as "the next step" in delivering your product. Well, they could be gambling. They juuuuust could actually have wafers, they could actually maybe work if they just did the right things to it. They could have much more sophisticated machines (out of view of the camera) and they could be veeeeery close to making it all work somehow. I guess u could believe that still Scenario 2: Either it started out with best intentions or Sonny is just a mail order scammer 4 life and this is another version of a mail order scam. Call it a pre-order scam. Josh orders himself. He is out 90k for 3x minirigs. Sonny convinces him to work for BFL, either pays him or promises him more hardware, maybe Josh is too stupid to know it's an obvious scam, maybe Sonny is a fantastic puppetmaster. Maybe Josh was pulled in early and Sonny says "there is no fucking way these are going to work. but if you help me..." Josh is clearly the type of psychopath that would do something extremely dishonest like that. He has a record from DirecTV cheater cards supporting that fact. I still hold out that Josh Zerlan may be too stupid to know, but for sure Sonny & Nasser do. The ASIC production, however it began, doesn't look now like it's anywhere close to completion, if they even started production at all! The deafening silence the past 2 weeks until this weak ass video are a very telling sign. IMO BFL is in the death throes, having burned up all the pre-order money on advertising to get more pre-order money until that proposition is no longer +EV, the massive backlash of angry miners having sunk their hardware budget into BFL instead of anything else is bubbling over every forum and outlet. The massive pre-order media buys are certainly having their effectiveness degrade each day. Now there is anti-BFL advertising on these forums, and congrats to those that put that together. A little ranty, but that's where I'm at about it ATM |
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Freemoney is going to press the reset button on the server in ~ 15 minutes. it will be down for ~10 minutes then should come right back.
Daily bitcoin is cancelled for today.
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so essentially I am giving you 2-1 on BFL shipping in April to 3+ at the agreed 350Mh/J+ terms. your additional 25 coins vs. my 50 coins now sitting in the hash. I wanted so badly to test the btc-address tool and rip those coins out of the blockchain, but you have offered me an amendment to the wager that I cannot refuse. I respect you for your gamble and i can't deny a man his action. http://blockexplorer.com/address/1BXEoc3tKs9APcZVEi5CLUDPgt3Xsw95gmhit the hash within 24 hrs and you have yourself an increased wager Mr. Teal. Sounds good to me. cool, hit the hash within the next ~ 12 hrs and ur on. |
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Its almost April fools. Imma go to Walmart to get   Well, it looks like we are days away from testing the btc-address escrow tool. I am interested in betting on future BFL shipping dates. If anyone is looking for a bet, I will bet 5 coins minimum and 250 coins max that the following statement is false: "by 5/15/2013 Butterfly Labs ships products to 3+ forum members unconnected to the company and the devices achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule" I have a feeling this bet, like the previous 3, will not have an issue determining the winner, i.e. I don't think it will be "close" but if so the escrow we have used is Mike Caldwell to call it. His btc-address tool will be used for escrow, with Mike in control of both invite codes. Yeah, it's looking like I've pretty much lost our wager. Given the rather poor news that BFL is talking about scaling back the hashrate of their boards to keep power in check and some of their boards have tested as high as 4J/GH (250MH/J) and even one at 6J/GH, I can't justify another 1:1 wager on BFL, especially since they really aren't that much further along than when I last bet in mid-Feb. If you're interested though, I would offer a compromise bet. Instead of May 15th (45 days from April 1), I would cut that down and say BFL will ship in April. I would send an additional 25BTC to our existing address, and if BFL doesn't ship by in April and meet those other terms (350MH/J, 3 independent people), you get my 50BTC instead of the 25BTC. so essentially I am giving you 2-1 on BFL shipping in April to 3+ at the agreed 350Mh/J+ terms. your additional 25 coins vs. my 50 coins now sitting in the hash. I wanted so badly to test the btc-address tool and rip those coins out of the blockchain, but you have offered me an amendment to the wager that I cannot refuse. I respect you for your gamble and i can't deny a man his action. http://blockexplorer.com/address/1BXEoc3tKs9APcZVEi5CLUDPgt3Xsw95gmhit the hash within 24 hrs and you have yourself an increased wager Mr. Teal. |
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Would you try and mine some BTC with it? I'm possibly weighing it up, probably get in trouble though...
I can look up the specs if you like but the thing has like 60,000 cores in it from memory. Not sure what the GPU would be like.
1) don't listen to the haters. Get bitcoind on that fat bitch ASAP 2) University student in trouble for tinkering with the supercomputer at the university he paid for? no way. Slap on the wrist at worst. in 1998 (lulz I'm old now) when in college and no1 knew about the free 10 mb of webspace each student had for free (lulz again) I collected all my friends' webspace and made a direct-download .mp3 sharing site. Boy did I make that netradio banner monies! Was called in eventually for my "kid shit" crime, they asked me what I was doing and I was like "sharing music with my friends obv" some lolertastic investigation was held, nothing came of it. I think I signed something saying I would not use University machines for cybercrime (i am pretty sure it said something like cyber-squatting actually. really wish I would have saved the form) 3) pool minded for 20 hrs should yield you ~ $1k USD or so. Gotta try it IMO |
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Is there a Mac client?
Mac client version will be since v0.4 (now v0.2.9.)
browser flash version is available for Mac.
someone read X's changelog & dev path. It is quite detailed. He is awesome and we will have Mac in weeks or at most months |
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updated OP to add Josh Zerlan's DirecTV hacking past: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-ksd-2_03-cv-02287Also to add a working theory: Josh Zerlan seems to know almost nothing about ASIC manufacturing, so how did he get that job? What about this recent post about how Josh appears to be a customer of BFL as well? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157329.0 just spitballin' here, but what if josh bought a few minirigs? he runs Eclipse mining pool, and seems to have set up his own mining rigs. Of course he would be a natural BFL customer... so he has some pre-orders, then maybe they talk him into working for hardware or something. I wonder if JZ is even getting paid... I don't know who the puppetmaster is, but Sonny or that Nassir guy seem top of the list. my 2x satoshi's |
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First draft:  HTML is below. You can make your own by pasting the HTML here and modifying: http://htmledit.squarefree.com/I'm going to bed. Somebody impress me with a great message and I will use it. We have about 18 hours before I have to pay Theymos and send him the ad. BTW Theymos: Could you look into who renamed mumu GalaxyASIC and why? Something stinks. <tr><td class="middletext" style="background-color: rgb(229, 229, 232); padding: 1.5pt 5pt; text-align: center;"> <b>Advertisement: </b><span style="font-family: verdana, sans-serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 18px; height: 45px; line-height: 45px; padding: 8px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right: 10px; margin-bottom: 20px; border: 1px solid #FF0000; border-radius: 10px; color: #000000; border-color: #000000; background-image: linear-gradient(bottom, #FFFFFF 0%, #FFFFFF 100%); background-image: -o-linear-gradient(bottom, #FFFFFF 0%, #FFFFFF 100%); background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(bottom, #FFFFFF 0%, #8B101D 100%); background-image: -ms-linear-gradient(bottom, #FFFFFF 0%, #FFFFFFF 100%); background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(bottom, #FFFFFF 0%, #8B101D 100%); background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, left bottom, left top, color-stop(0, #8B101D), color-stop(1, #FEFACC)); "> <a href=" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159104.0" style="color:#333333; text-shadow: 0px 1px 0px #999999, 0px -1px 0px #dcdcdc; text-decoration: none "> Warning: BFL has failed to deliver for >7 months. New orders could lose money! </a> </span></td></tr><tr><td class="middletext" style="background-color: rgb(229, 229, 232); padding: 1.5pt 5pt; text-align: center;"> you got it. I offer up JoshZerlan.com for any needs in this purpose. Also this would only need a bit of cleanup to work fine: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0 |
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