Thank you for the invitation, but no, thank you. I rarely visit IRC's because I have found that, in great numbers, it is a cesspool of idiotic cheerleaders none of which brings absolutely anything of value to the table.

But the most important reason is that I try to avoid visiting ANY place where the freedom of speech is not fully implemented, like it is in this thread. I find that to be a very strong assets and the opposite... well, the opposite.

Now, since you posted that idiotic meme, Saffron has lost 30% and I still have only posted positive things about Saffron, here and on other threads too. So who is really hurting the project? I'll leave it at that.

But since I DO bring significant stuff to the table, I posed a very important question here a few days back and fully expected Muhammed to answer it. Unless I have missed the answer, no one has been forthcoming, so I will pose it again because I believe, again, it is of great importance: To install the full wallet it requires a space of 10GB on your computer. And that is at this stage of the game, the infancy of Saffron. How are you planning on addressing the obvious problem of bloating?

Why is this important? Because, as I have stated before, here and elsewhere, the wallet of Saffron is, to me, it's main palpable asset and I believe it would go a long way in introducing the coin to people that has never heard of or had any interest in Saffron, if they can have a "taste" of that wallet. I can assure you though that, like in my case, the curiosity will be stopped in it's tracks when facing the perspective of a 10GB install. So, again, Is it inevitable? what do we miss, experience and practically-wise, when installing "lighter" versions of the wallet?

Thank you for your answers Mr. Rosham, in advance for I fully expect you to address them rather quickly before the coin is halved in price again. None of us want that to happen, do we?

You are bound to be called names after such magnificent debunking of the enormous amount of bullshit that is posted here regularly. You must be FUD-ing?

First of all thank you but you are giving me way too much influence, which could be flattering if true but being that it is not, it just an exercise in futility, meaningless. I don't influence the trading prices in ANY manner. The coin is trading now near the highs, it's been so, once again, proof that this thread has practically no influence at all.

Second, you may not know me, although when you judge someone you should first do some research. When I post, if I own the coin (which is never), I state I own and since when. It's called FULL DISCLOSURE. If I post anything negative, obviously I am not planning on owning the shit any time; if I post something positive, on the other hand, I have done research on that and usually I have intention to make, some time in the future, a modest investment in it. And, to further clarify, I do not INVEST in alt coins, I do swing trade, not invest.

Third, if you read the OP, you'll quickly find that the reason for the WALL OF SHAME is to respond to the absolute impunity existing in alts and translating into massive amounts of scams. There's no "burden of proof". And the reason there isn't is because the scammers/developers don't need to comply with ANY rules at all to bring forth their scams. They can lie, they can mislead, the can cheat... and the do. Blatantly. With total impunity. This WALL came out as an attempt to rein on that "wild west" mentality. The rules of the game now are leveled, equal to both parts. Fair enough?

I did not just give my opinion on BAY, I gave quite a few known facts and a few obvious red flags that support, based on experience, my overall opinion that this is a scam and that, consequently, should be avoided. You think differently, be my guest and buy it by the boatloads... at least you will not be able to claim you were misled when the bubble burst in your face. And burst it will. And you know the nice thing about the whole thing? we will not have to wait too long -just a few months max- to know who was right and who was wrong.

You mention a point which could be quite valid, the fact that the manager of the project or visible head is a well known name in alts... That, since the only real value of ALL alts is the reputation of its devs, was a very strong consideration... but, ultimately, one has to do what every investigator ALWAYS does when investigation murders or other crimes: Follow the money. By his own admission, Zimbeck is -or was- is dire debt. To a point that it was drowning him and even affecting his work (his own admission). And that changes the game completely for anyone in need if, obviously, vulnerable to dubious offers which under different circumstances that same person wouldn't ever hear. So your "point" is thus explained away.

But I also pointed out to a FACT that is just an obvious fantasy: The collection of 3,000BTC in the ICO. Over 1.1 million dollars. For nothing, nothing at all. Something that will be implemented, when and if, earlier in another coin and the name of a dev drowning in dev. Do the math. And I mentioned thre different examples, one of them, BRO, supported by the single most promising background project ever attempted in crypto (an online casino) and the support not of a well known dev, but a dozen or more of the most famous and richest poker players in the world. After one month and one day of ICO, a total of less than 300BTC were collected... 1,000BTC, not in your dreams: Typical case of right hand pays the left hand. Vaporware. And major -albeit slow- dumping ALREADY in progress. It is called "circumstantial evidence".

Not trying to convince you, though. Please go ahead and make millions with the scam. I'll post just how wrong I was when you are driving your lambo and own half of the Mediterranean islands. I hope though that some less "expert" investors are spared of just one more, and not very elaborate scam.

Let me take a wild guess... BAY? That is going to be rrrrrevolutionarie! Let me bring the drums, ok? That is going to take BC to 96k again... or better.
To da moon, lambos for everyone, Black Hand come baaaack! Wow, wow, wow!

Perfectly understandable. If BK wants this to gain some kind of lasting momentum he better be ready to do much, much more than what he has done so far.
I hope he continues learning from so many mistakes made and avoid one or two, otherwise I also will be out in a flash.

You're just a noobie, probably a sock puppet and obviously an idiot.

Now let's see if, without the irresponsible cheerleading, it is really worse for the coin. Up until now, the irresponsible, baseless, idiotic cheerleading has only achieved that the coin was in a dead fall spiraL AND LOST MORE THAN 80% OF ITS MARKET CAP. i JUST CAME IN, SO LETY'S SEE IF IT LOSES ANOTHER 80% -which is quite possible, but will depend, exclusively, on measures taken by BK, not in misleading people while others, way more intelligent, unload. OK, "noob"?

And still no acknowledgement there's a RESPONSIBILITY attached to be a Community Liason, PR or whatever you want to call yourself. You CANNOT, ethically, keep on hawking the project. Inform, it's your duty; cheerleading not only is not but it is despicable for it mislead people and takes their money that they sink into this project because you mislead them. Understand now? Yes, ask BK and get the hell out of here. You do NOT belong in any position of even minimal responsibility or ethics, alright?

And, by the way, start by showing everyone here who the hell you are in real life, since you are the cause the vast majority of visitors to this thread had lost already at least 3/4s of what they sank into this.

I think I have expressed myself quite clearly, haven't I? If you have any doubts, don't hesitate to ask, ok?

Here's the link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=869078.0

The blackwavelabs is interesting and in many cases accurate. But they refuse to see the real problem in Alts -- no one uses them. None of them. While BTC usage increases ever so slightly but non-stop, no use of any alt coin has happened so far. None whatsoever. Therefore all run strictly on speculation. And there isn't any "stupid money" available and the P&D mafias have already cleaned what was left, so prices will go dramatically down, across the board, as people start to realize there's absolutely no hope for rebound and will try to cut the losses, thus precipitating the ultimate tumble.

Now BC comes with this "increase your staking" scheme. It brings NOTHING, of course. Nothing than anyone promises, be it decentralized exchanges -the latest fad-, be it side blockchains, be it anon, be iot "smart" contracts, they all will come in 12 or more variety of flavors, all pretending to be better that the others. All will mean absolutely nothing because no one, I repeat, no one will ever use them... until IBM, fully centralized, offers them. The rest is just playing a very, very ruthless game with one purpose only, regardless how they choose to disguise it: To take you money.

Really? Rat4 is still developer in chief, isn't it? Doge/Eugene/Corleone packed and left?

Pants-boy and Black Hand crumbs picker Soepkip not around any longer?

Who exactly has left? The Black Hand itself? Of course, there's nothing to steal anymore...

I'd appreciate the details of the supposed "clean-up though...

And you still have Zimbeck, right. His "priority" is still BC, right?

I mean, if you have cleaned that cesspool, kudos to you but you will have to offer significant proof before I believe the crap is out.

Meanwhile, I recommend you read my piece in altcoins in which I mention BC, because you shyould know there's still a 75-95% haircut pending... not just in BC but in practically every other altcoin.

I would be waiting for Proof of Clean up, so to speak...

He's obviously much more invested in BTC than in Naut. Be aware the current valuation -and it will be much lower if you try to cash out some decent amount- is less than what he makes in a month or two, so imagine the importance that Naut has in BK's professional life...

That is exactly the scenario in BAY, in my opinion. Of course these things cannot be proven... especially if the guys are in the Far East and therefore away from regular law authorities. But do you need proof? Really? Why? At the expense of your hard earned money? I don't think so. BTC is a gamble enough already and at least you know you are not going to be conned (although the price will continue being manipulated in extreme) AND you have the opportunity already to insure your investment through hedging if the risk is too much for you.

But handing it over to the BAY Zimbeck and his minions? Nah, you know better.

Your FUD excuse is as POOR as your horrid track record of irresponsibly pumping this project from levels 400% above current price and above without admitting responsibility, so for minimal decency, shut the fuck up, ok? No one gives a flying fuck about this shitty project of nominal price and no value at all whatsoever, alright? Nobody. No one is interested in fudding something that your irresponsible hawking of it has done such a brilliant number through the months. You don't need help fudding Naut; you are diving it to the ground brilliantly yourself.

Truth is that BK feels impotent and decidedly not interested in investing any time nor money in even trying to right the ship a bit. He doesn't hire anyone capable, he goes from one set of incapable scammers to another incapable fella with a checkered background and many other priorities to try to get, for free, something done here, something that many 15 year olds can do in minutes and that every shitcoin in the book has and comes duplicated with simple copy paste. While some projects already have POS 2.0 (Blackcoin, for instance), BK is trying for many months, to get basic POS 101 implemented here. A joke. And, as such, the markets are treating NAUT, which is completely left alone by its only real asset, BK himself that cannot find 5 minutes of his precious time to try to rally the troops while the coin continues it descent into shitcoin territory because, although he definitely has the time and then some, what he doesn't have is any solutions or even a set of different words of the "good intentions" so many times posted already here so many times. For that he has FlyingMongoose, who has no problem in keeping on embarrassing himself again and again posting the same bullshit.

As above.

You are obviously interested in a (very expensive) hobby since mining is not profitable at all. So, as a hobby, you can pick and choose on which coin you want to be scammed or otherwise get your money. If you, on the other hand, are a serious investor, first just buy Bitcoin. Keep them. Sell them when you have 15% profit. Then wait for it to come down. Rinse and repeat. Or, buying at current prices, just put them away and don't even think about it for a couple of years or when it is front page in the Wall Street Journal -at which time it will be the signal to sell-. Dont even think in investing in any altcoin... at least until this burst has concluded. Then there will be a few surviving projects perhaps worth of investing in them at 10% their current valuations. Not before. And even them, be very cautious, and whenever you get a 30-50% profit opportunity, dump it, because no matter what the project is, you are being played by the devs/P&D operatos and simply you just cannot win in the long run.

Zimbeck is up to here in personal debts and is more than probably selling his Black Halo ideas to Pump&Dump groups (probably the Black Hand; possibly several) to get access to quick cash. Everything is vaporware there, nothing at all is new and when and if it is and works, it will be first in BlackCoin. IF, being the operative word. In any case, none of it is of any real value for regulation will be implemented in crypto long before any real decentralized market place or decentralized form of payment really takes effect. Mind you, no one has come even remotely close to DarkSend and no one uses it either.

But, above all, please pay attention to all the flashing red flags, ok?
1.- Self moderated thread. Don't believe the crap: Only reason for it is to avoid posts like this one you are reading to be posted there. Because they have a lot to hide and that is the only way they can pretend no one knows their trick.

2.- Read the thread. How come all of a sudden such an amount of "enthusiasts" of the project, post again and again, them all being either newbies or juniors? Draw your own conclusions... ok, I'll do it for you: They are sock puppets; accounts that are operated by a very small amount of people probably working for the likes of Bobsurplus Prometheous, Black Hand, others or a combination of several.

3.- They pretend to have sold a lot in the ICO... Thousands of BTC. Let me tell you this: Even if you would be selling $100 bills in crypto for 90% of its value in today's alts, you wouldn't sell "thousands of BTC". There's simply no money left in crypto. It's all gone to the P&D groups and the crooked devs. Gonzo. I don't care what you offer, you won't get an ico going over 200BTC no matter if you invent something that is better than sliced bread. There's simply no cash, period. How they do it you ask? Well, not discounting than the exchanges could do anything for money, misrepresent figures included, let's assume that BTER did not and they really "sold" thousands of BTC in BAY. If that was the case, they sold it to themselves. You know the old trick? The right hand pays the left hand and everything goes to the same pocket. Trust nothing but what you can see. And what is that? 20-30 BTC per 24-hour volume in Bittrex. You don't need to look anywhere else. That tells you that roughly 10BTC was invested and another 10BTC was divested. Or dumped. Use your brain, ok?

Yep, you are going to read a lot of answers to this post, you'll see. Pay attention and you'll see the same newbie accounst and a host of new ones, pretending its FUD. Use your brain. Or throw your money away. Your call.

It isn't just part of the deception; it is that the whole thing has evolved into, mainly, a giant pile of raw crap. I'll give you an example: What used to be Veriradio. A on-man operation (with tech support by another one) with an "audience" of 25 at the highest point... It consisted of a bit of old folk's music and the soporiferous ramblings of a die hard fan. It is, obviously, a very cheap hobby, right? Well, enter James Lee (Jl777) and he decides that such a thing is an "asset" (he has created a bunch of those) and as such it will not only be given to owners of his others "enterprises", such a NxtVentures, The SuperNET and Jl777 hodl, but also, maybe, traded separately. Son you have something worth absolutely nothing, that now, as an "asset" -because James says so- can become, perhaps, something with some trading value. The old-fashioned hat trick brought up again. But crap, sold as "assets" or otherwise, remains just that: Crap. Take a closer look at all the other "assets" and you will begin to se the profile of quite a picture, I assure you.

... Yep. The process is already in motion. And everyone that has been "here" for a while -a few months at least- can easily see it as it develops: The Alt currencies bubble is exploding. I know, I know, there are still eternal believers who are holding considerable bags already on every one of the 500+ alts still somewhat alive. They believe so called "established coins" the likes of Black Coin, Dogecoin, Darkcoin, Nextcoin, Vericoin, etc, currnetly trading at multimonths lows (DOGE is one exception, but not for long), are about to rebound. They don't believe they will go "any lower" or, when they have posted such things, change to "not much lower" as the coins continue hitting new lows of many, many months almost daily.

What is going on? Well, it is really very, very simple. Much like the internet bubble in the stock market during the last couple of years of the past century, where companies such as Yahoo and Amazon were given multi-billion dollars valuations from the get go, on pure speculation, ALL alts are just that, remain just that: Pure, raw speculation. No one believes, at this stage, that any of them will ever have a practical use and even if some believe some of them will eventually have one, no one, absolutely no one, is willing to wait what is obvious by now it will be, best case scenario, several years of waiting. And then not only no guaranties of any reward but, logically, something much better would have come up in the meantime.

The alt world is very, very small, money-wise. And very, very big in amount of projects ("coins"). And the money supply is dwindling lower every day while the offer of new projects increases practically every day. These new projects coming up are a mixed bag of the usual run-of-the-mill-copy-paste-hack-job and some really interesting and promising ones. It doesn't matter: There's no money left for any of them. I'll give your 4 recent examples: SEED (was able to collect 7 BTC, most of it from their sponsors, the entire dev team of PINK), BYC (60 BTC, in spite of the significant amount of followers of its controversial developer, IconicExpert) and BRO (276 BTC -the suspiciously collected an extra 100BTC on a surprising "bonus" extension to their very long ICO, offering a 70% discount in the price, so I won't couint those that are more than probably of a known origin to the developers-, in spite of being a project supported for very well know celebrities in the field of poker and being the first project that, upon completion, will allow its holders to actually use the coins immediately for gaming). The developers of BRO were initially expecting to collect up to 15,000 or more BTC. IconicExpert surely was expecting much more than he got and the PINK devs -and everyone else- were expecting also much more than the paltry 7 BTC their sponsored copy/paste/hack/job was able to collect. Why such terrible results when at least 2 of those projects are innovative and full of promise? The answer is as simple as this: There's no BTC available. No liquid money in Alts. Everyone is fully invested in bags that hold losses from 70-90% and higher and expect rebounds to cut those losses somehow.

Well, it will NOT happen. The opposite will indeed occur... it is, as a matter of fact, already in full progress. And will result in further losses, in ALL alts, from 75-95% from current valuations. Why such dire prediction? Think a little bit, ok? The only money available is the one held by the P&D groups of the Prometheus, Black Hand, BobSurplus, etc. They have "cleaned up" the kid's pockets already. They themselves have no more projects where to rein in... One example: They -some of them- have camped on the latest P&D crap: BAY. They bought their big bags and are unloading already, slowly, part of the dump. Not because there isn't people that would otherwise "bitten", but because those people have no money left. So using all those newbie handles, all those hours of pumping, is proving an exercise in futility. The gig is up. Bubsurplus will probably have to go back to peddle in printing toners. Prometheus has no more use for Dan Metcalf and Dan himself will have the IRS on his behind for anything he might have gotten out of his very unethical dealings. Even those that have lined up their pockets with their scams and schemes are left with a bunch of BTC... a very devalued BTC, by the way (but that is another subject altogether). But the main reason, as pointed above, is that there's no practical use for ANY alt currency and none is used for anything. Their only "value" is the one given mostly by robots trading them all day on pure and simple speculation. Try to sell any decent amount of ANY coin, and you will have a quick and expedite glimpse on what the real value of the coin is. I can give you that value right away: Between 75-95% below what the last trade on it was. You can pick ANY "established" coin, they are all in the same situation.

So -and that is the point of this long post-, if you want to salvage something of what you put into this bubble, do it now and do it very slowly or you will lose it all in a hurry. Within a few weeks, maybe before the year ends, maybe shortly thereafter, all those "established" coins are going to be at their real valuation, which will be between a 5% and 25% of the fictional ones they have currently assigned in Coinmarketcap. Just distance yourself from your current involvement and ask your common sense: Is DOGE worth $21 million? why? what can you do with DOGE? And then change the word DOGE for BLACK, VERI, PEER, DARK or ANY of your choice.

Oh I can feel the denial creeping in on this thread as soon as I post. Crazy, will be the adjective of choice, inevitably. OK. Let's see what happens. The timeline may not fit -it probably will take a bit longer to full effect- but surely you wont have to wait too much longer to corroborate just how off mark I was.

Hey Bobby, Bob, Robert, you should think about using any other handle, dude. I have a feeling the day someone is going to hang you by the balls is quickly approaching.

Keeping a low profile would be very wise...

The Black Coin scam is prominently detailed, and at length, in THE WALL OF SHAME, right here in BTCT.