XMR vs DRK

[Lukas_Jackson]

DASH has anonymity ADDED as a FEATURE.

XMR has anonymity BUILT-IN TO THE PROTOCOL as a FUNCTION.



So next time, if anyone asks which coin is more "anonymous", I think you guys have an answer right here.

There are cases where anonymity can't or won't be used. Think about it.

No one stops you from promoting xmr on darkmarkets or wherever. Go ahead

[Joshuar]

If the server the masternode was hosted on was compromised and the 1k in the hot wallet, then there'd be no moving the node.

Yes there would. You'd just send the coins somewhere else, then start again.

Or are you talking about a masternode owner has no backup of his wallet or private keys?

It's like a hacker getting someone's bitcoin wallet and saying that the original owner of the bitcoin wallet has a chance of getting his coins back.

Even if he has a backup, if the server with the node with 1k in the hot wallet's being hosted on is compromised, then theres practically no chance of them just sending the coins somewhere else(The attacker would send it to their wallet).

I dont know the % of users that have their coins in cold or hot wallets, so this is all speculation on both sides though.

So now you're assuming that the hacker has brute-forced the wallet encryption key on the rare masternode he was lucky to find with a hot wallet?

interesting assumptions there dude.

I find it odd that you make assumptions of things like all masternode users using cold wallets instead of hot wallets, and that all masternode owners encrypt their wallets. My acquaintances that even use Bitcoin, do not encrypt or set a password for their wallets.

If you're going to say things that are optional and misrepresent them as fact, then there's no point responding to you.

It is optional to set a password for your masternode hot wallet

It is optional to place your 1k coins in a cold wallet

So what you've been saying has no backing.

[majamina]

I find it odd that you make assumptions of things like all masternode users using cold wallets instead of hot wallets, and that all masternode owners encrypt their wallets. My acquaintances that even use Bitcoin, do not encrypt or set a password for their wallets.

If you're going to say things that are optional and misrepresent them as fact, then there's no point responding to you.

Dude are you absolutely fucking serious?

You think someone is going to learn how to set up a masternode, put 1,000 DASH in a hot wallet on it and leave it unencrypted with no backups?

[Joshuar]

I find it odd that you make assumptions of things like all masternode users using cold wallets instead of hot wallets, and that all masternode owners encrypt their wallets. My acquaintances that even use Bitcoin, do not encrypt or set a password for their wallets.

If you're going to say things that are optional and misrepresent them as fact, then there's no point responding to you.

Dude are you absolutely fucking serious?

You think someone is going to learn how to set up a masternode, put 1,000 DASH in a hot wallet on it and leave it unencrypted with no backups?

So you told me that I was making assumptions(When I was stating facts, reread), when you've been making the assumptions that all masternode owners set a password and put their coins in a cold wallet?

Are you trying to troll now? What don't you understand that those things that you intentionally misrepresent as mandatory, are Optional.

P.S. setting up a masternode isn't hard at all, it's literally just a PoS wallet.

If the server the masternode was hosted on was compromised and the 1k in the hot wallet, then there'd be no moving the node.

Yes there would. You'd just send the coins somewhere else, then start again.

Or are you talking about a masternode owner has no backup of his wallet or private keys?

It's like a hacker getting someone's bitcoin wallet and saying that the original owner of the bitcoin wallet has a chance of getting his coins back.

Even if he has a backup, if the server with the node with 1k in the hot wallet's being hosted on is compromised, then theres practically no chance of them just sending the coins somewhere else(The attacker would send it to their wallet).

I dont know the % of users that have their coins in cold or hot wallets, so this is all speculation on both sides though.

So now you're assuming that the hacker has brute-forced the wallet encryption key on the rare masternode he was lucky to find with a hot wallet?

interesting assumptions there dude.

I find it odd that you make assumptions of things like all masternode users using cold wallets instead of hot wallets, and that all masternode owners encrypt their wallets. My acquaintances that even use Bitcoin, do not encrypt or set a password for their wallets.

If you're going to say things that are optional and misrepresent them as fact, then there's no point responding to you.

It is optional to set a password for your masternode hot wallet

It is optional to place your 1k coins in a cold wallet

So what you've been saying has no backing.

[majamina]

So you told me that I was making assumptions(When I was stating facts, reread), now you're making the assumption that all masternode owners set a password and put their coins in a cold wallet?

Are you trying to troll now? What don't you understand when those things that you intentionally misrepresent as mandatory, are Optional.

 

OK we'll leave it there my friend.

And so to bed. Night all.

[xxxgoodgirls]

So you told me that I was making assumptions(When I was stating facts, reread), when you've been making the assumptions that all masternode owners set a password and put their coins in a cold wallet?

Are you trying to troll now? What don't you understand that those things that you intentionally misrepresent as mandatory, are Optional.

P.S. setting up a masternode isn't hard at all, it's literally just a wallet.

This is going behind logic.
Setting up a MN requires some basic understanding of linux/commands lines/vps/ssh/whatever and also, time. Retarded Joe cannot just setup a MN.
Even If you blind-follow , having no idea what you are doing, any tutorial present on the internets on setting up a MN it will make you take some security measure.
Anyway this is a reason why there is a collateral of 1000DRK, it makes you take care of your security otherwise you lose 5000$ at the actual rate.

[Joshuar]

So you told me that I was making assumptions(When I was stating facts, reread), when you've been making the assumptions that all masternode owners set a password and put their coins in a cold wallet?

Are you trying to troll now? What don't you understand that those things that you intentionally misrepresent as mandatory, are Optional.

P.S. setting up a masternode isn't hard at all, it's literally just a wallet.

This is going behind logic.
Setting up a MN requires some basic understanding of linux/commands lines/vps/ssh/whatever and also, time.
Even If you blind-follow , having no idea what you are doing, any tutorial present on the internets on setting up a MN it will make you take some security measure.
Anyway this is a reason why there is a collateral of 1000DRK, it makes you take care of your security otherwise you lose 5000$ at the actual rate.

Masternodes are just wallets. They aren't hard to setup, I've temporarily set up one before back in June. All you have to do is just follow the instructions, there's easy instructions if you just google it. You can't say things as optional and present it as fact, which is what they were doing.

You can have your 1k dsh on a cold or hot wallet, you can have no password or you can have a password. None of those things are mandatory, they are either/or, optional.

[xxxgoodgirls]

So you told me that I was making assumptions(When I was stating facts, reread), when you've been making the assumptions that all masternode owners set a password and put their coins in a cold wallet?

Are you trying to troll now? What don't you understand that those things that you intentionally misrepresent as mandatory, are Optional.

P.S. setting up a masternode isn't hard at all, it's literally just a wallet.

This is going behind logic.
Setting up a MN requires some basic understanding of linux/commands lines/vps/ssh/whatever and also, time.
Even If you blind-follow , having no idea what you are doing, any tutorial present on the internets on setting up a MN it will make you take some security measure.
Anyway this is a reason why there is a collateral of 1000DRK, it makes you take care of your security otherwise you lose 5000$ at the actual rate.

Masternodes are just wallets. They aren't hard to setup, I've temporarily set up one before back in June. All you have to do is just follow the instructions, there's easy instructions if you just google it. You can't say things as optional and present it as fact, which is what they were doing.

You can have your 1k dsh on a cold or hot wallet, you can have no password or you can have a password. None of those things are mandatory, they are either/or, optional.

Since you are trolling now I am trolling back by selfquoting myself.
This is going behind logic.
Setting up a MN requires some basic understanding of linux/commands lines/vps/ssh/whatever and also, time.
Even If you blind-follow , having no idea what you are doing, any tutorial present on the internets on setting up a MNwill make you take some security measure.
Anyway this is a reason why there is a collateral of 1000DRK, it makes you take care of your security otherwise you lose 5000$ at the actual rate.

[Joshuar]

So you told me that I was making assumptions(When I was stating facts, reread), when you've been making the assumptions that all masternode owners set a password and put their coins in a cold wallet?

Are you trying to troll now? What don't you understand that those things that you intentionally misrepresent as mandatory, are Optional.

P.S. setting up a masternode isn't hard at all, it's literally just a wallet.

This is going behind logic.
Setting up a MN requires some basic understanding of linux/commands lines/vps/ssh/whatever and also, time.
Even If you blind-follow , having no idea what you are doing, any tutorial present on the internets on setting up a MN it will make you take some security measure.
Anyway this is a reason why there is a collateral of 1000DRK, it makes you take care of your security otherwise you lose 5000$ at the actual rate.

Masternodes are just wallets. They aren't hard to setup, I've temporarily set up one before back in June. All you have to do is just follow the instructions, there's easy instructions if you just google it. You can't say things as optional and present it as fact, which is what they were doing.

You can have your 1k dsh on a cold or hot wallet, you can have no password or you can have a password. None of those things are mandatory, they are either/or, optional.

Since you are trolling now I am trolling back by selfquoting myself.
This is going behind logic.
Setting up a MN requires some basic understanding of linux/commands lines/vps/ssh/whatever and also, time.
Even If you blind-follow , having no idea what you are doing, any tutorial present on the internets on setting up a MNwill make you take some security measure.
Anyway this is a reason why there is a collateral of 1000DRK, it makes you take care of your security otherwise you lose 5000$ at the actual rate.

Wow, absolutely wow. I expected too much from you guys. What are you talking about? Obviously I know the requirements to set up a masternode, what does that have to do with this discussion, seriously? The below quote is what your friend knowingly lied about. Then Magamina agreed with him. They both purposely presented it as if the 1k Dash required would be hosted on cold wallets only, and they also purposely presented it as if all masternode owners set up passphrases for their wallet. I don't care about "It's better to set a passphrase etc etc", the point is that they misrepresented things as being one way, when it is optional. What exactly do you not understand? For all we know most masternode owners could be hosting their coins on the hot wallets without a passphrase...

It's like I'm speaking to 5 year olds...

If the coins are held on the masternode and not a cold wallet, that masternode isnt reappearing anywhere. The gov can just take control of the servers the masternodes are hosted on.

Coins are stored in cold wallets.  Nothing on the servers to take.

Dont lie please. Cold wallet storage is optional, most masternodes probably still have the 1k dark in the hot wallets.

[David Latapie]

Well, people like me appreciate the analysis. True, you may not influence people who are heavily financially invested in DRK, but people who are legitimately interested in evaluating the technology will probably pay attention.

Idea: compiling all the useful analysis in one (very) self-moderated thread, clearly targeted at being a reference, not a discussion. Or even a closed discussion, or an independant document, like a Latex file (perfect for maths). Copy paste may trump the bullshit assymetry principle (well, not for writing but for referencing it later on, especially if several version of the documents are published).

[BlockaFett]

pure XMR marketing / troll thread.

[toknormal]

DASH has anonymity ADDED as a FEATURE.

XMR has anonymity BUILT-IN TO THE PROTOCOL as a FUNCTION.

So next time, if anyone asks which coin is more "anonymous", I think you guys have an answer right here.

Thats why I didn't invest in XMR. Because it's run by a couple of trainspotters who don't understand money.

If you're communicating nuclear secrets then you want your message encrypted for sure.

On the other hand if your exchanging money then you want your transaction as *transparent as possible* while using a monetary medium that's as *fungible* as possible.

Historically, gold worked as money, not because it was easy to hide transactions, but rather because it was ultimately fungible due to its low melting point. That meant that for the most part gold coins represented the currency of the day but had an additional insurance policy that they could be melted down to create a new monetary medium when required that retained none of its historical baggage. (Because governments just stole all the gold cons, melted them down and made new ones. What made gold "money" wasn't the fact that it could be hidden, it was the fact it could be ultimately melted down and used for a new purpose).

 Darkcoin / Dash's evolution has been characterised by monetary priorities - not cryptographical ones - which is why it is starting to emerge as a "useable" monetary medium rather than an interesting lab experiment. Dash is an electronic monetary medium which inherits gold's exact properties of "optional fungibility". In addition, it has 2 enhancements over gold:

[1] - 'the physical" can travel through wires

[2] - you don't need a 'smithy'. You can "melt" it yourself right in your wallet by passing it through up to 16 rounds of optional, pre-emptive darksend (or you can keep it in coins !)

To have implemented - on an electronic platform - a form of money that inherits the "Satoshi" principles in every respect while adding the insurance of "meltdown and recreate" IMO is pretty amazing.

[BlockaFett]

^ +1

[Joshuar]

DASH has anonymity ADDED as a FEATURE.

XMR has anonymity BUILT-IN TO THE PROTOCOL as a FUNCTION.

So next time, if anyone asks which coin is more "anonymous", I think you guys have an answer right here.

snip-

Dash is not, and can never be a currency. This is why I left Dash for Monero. Dash's masternodes take liquidity out of the equation, which is essential for a currency. Dash's dishonest instamine takes credibility out of the equation, which is essential for a currency(And everything really). There's simply no hope for Dash to succeed outside this forum/altcoin section. Besides it's masternodes themselves being a flawed concept, the atrocious instamine that happened ensures nothing worthwhile will ever come to Dash.

Having the anonymity outside of the protocol itself like Dash does, is just a plain dumb implementation. It's better to use Bitcoin for that then, since CoinShuffle is making decentralized coinjoin, further making Dash's feature irrelevant.

[vokain]

DASH has anonymity ADDED as a FEATURE.

XMR has anonymity BUILT-IN TO THE PROTOCOL as a FUNCTION.

So next time, if anyone asks which coin is more "anonymous", I think you guys have an answer right here.

Thats why I didn't invest in XMR. Because it's run by a couple of trainspotters who don't understand money.

If you're communicating nuclear secrets then you want your message encrypted for sure.

On the other hand if your exchanging money then you want your transaction as *transparent as possible* while using a monetary medium that's as *fungible* as possible.

Historically, gold worked as money, not because it was easy to hide transactions, but rather because it was ultimately fungible due to its low melting point. That meant that for the most part gold coins represented the currency of the day but had an additional insurance policy that they could be melted down to create a new monetary medium when required that retained none of its historical baggage. (Because governments just stole all the gold cons, melted them down and made new ones. What made gold "money" wasn't the fact that it could be hidden, it was the fact it could be ultimately melted down and used for a new purpose).

 Darkcoin / Dash's evolution has been characterised by monetary priorities - not cryptographical ones - which is why it is starting to emerge as a "useable" monetary medium rather than an interesting lab experiment. Dash is an electronic monetary medium which inherits gold's exact properties of "optional fungibility". In addition, it has 2 enhancements over gold:

[1] - 'the physical" can travel through wires

[2] - you don't need a 'smithy'. You can "melt" it yourself right in your wallet by passing it through up to 16 rounds of optional, pre-emptive darksend (or you can keep it in coins !)

To have implemented - on an electronic platform - a form of money that inherits the "Satoshi" principles in every respect while adding the insurance of "meltdown and recreate" IMO is pretty amazing.

I've spend two years on these forums and a lot more learning how science works. These are my conclusions (which are no different from what most people have drawn):


[1] - smooth & fluffypony: A couple of trainspotting charlatans who can't decide if they want to sell furniture for mining rigs, marketing hype for Vertcoin or recycled cryptonote fodder

[2] - Evan Duffield: A person who will go down in history as having changed the world of finance.

Monero has view keys to allow transparency. The fungibility is an inherent feature of not being able to differentiate one Monero from another (without first voluntarily sharing a view key), fungibility of which that is dependent upon a protocol level proven anonymization process.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Thats why I didn't invest in XMR. Because it's run by a couple of trainspotters who don't understand money.

If you're communicating nuclear secrets then you want your message encrypted for sure.

On the other hand if your exchanging money then you want your transaction as *transparent as possible* while using a monetary medium that's as *fungible* as possible.

...

You can't have fungibility and transparency at the same time. Sorry. All units have to be cryptographically indistinguishable, and having a large amount of transparency in the ledger only serves to reduce the anonymity set (and reduce the fungibility as a result).

Monero is currently the most fungible crypto in existence. Maybe some day if zerocash works out it's kinks it will take monero's place. Darkcoin isn't a contender in that regard (though it's privacy tech can be debated).

[toknormal]

Dash's masternodes take liquidity out of the equation

Joshuar - you seem very passionate but you do not understand "liquidity".

Currently, Dash is the third most liquid currency in all of crypto after BTC and LTC.

[toknormal]

Monero has view keys to allow transparency.

Thats the problem - not the solution.

[Joshuar]

Dash's masternodes take liquidity out of the equation

Joshuar - you seem very passionate but you do not understand "liquidity".

Currently, Dash is the third most liquid currency in all of crypto after BTC and LTC.

It just experienced a pump. Monero's was higher than Dash's before that.

Liquidity isn't just marketcap, # of coins available also play an important part(The most important part).

Right now there are more coins tied up in masternodes than there are on the orderbooks, or in people's regular wallets. In the scenario that two currencies had the same coin supply and price, but one had more than half it's coins out of the orderbooks, and the other one didn't, then the latter would be the most liquid coin.

[Joshuar]

Monero has view keys to allow transparency.

Thats the problem - not the solution.

Care to give your reasoning? No problems arise from Viewkeys, they provide a harmony of sorts between having anonymity and allowing transparency to those you wish.