Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[darkmule]

I got my BFL 60Gh/s miner and I'll be stoked to break even (and I ordered mine in early Feb).  Anyone that hasn't received their miner from BFL should just get a refund now of (if you're desperate to stay in the game) upgrade to the Monarch and risk the exact same thing happening.  I hate to say it, but BFL is a scam.  My miner came back with scratches all over and a fan that was broken.   I'm pretty sure those dirtbags mined with it before shipping it (why else would it look used). 

Would you rather be shipped a dysfunctional miner, or had them test it before they shipped it? (Assuming the broken fan was from poor shipping)

So by "test it" you mean "use it so much it's broken when you get it?"

[1715568680]

1715568680

[adicted]

i don think they ever want to deliver

[Open4lies]

Anyone that hasn't received their miner from BFL should just get a refund now of (if you're desperate to stay in the game) upgrade to the Monarch and risk the exact same thing happening.

Upgrading to Monarch is the worst option because before these gets shipped these will be unprofitabe as well. And given BFL track record, you have to expect Monarch wont be shipped as now promised (in February I believe)

[Aahzman]

i don think they ever want to deliver

Wrong. A lot of people have received their BFL equipment. Hell, I got mine back in july, mined for a bit, then flipped them out to local buyers for about a $1600 profit.

Not saying that BFL aren't a bunch of incompetent, sneaky, misinformationing bastards. They are.  But people still harping on how BFL will "never deliver" when they have clearly been delivering for months is just retarded, poorly-informed ignorance.

Would I order from BFL again if I were gonna get back in to mining? Not a fucking chance. Would I recommend anybody buy anything from BFL? Hell to the naw.

In summary, don't read the first 10 pages of this thread and post ignorant shit about how BFL will never deliver anything. Educate yourself before you post.

Remember: It is better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

[xephireusMMX]

i don think they ever want to deliver

Wrong. A lot of people have received their BFL equipment. Hell, I got mine back in july, mined for a bit, then flipped them out to local buyers for about a $1600 profit.

Not saying that BFL aren't a bunch of incompetent, sneaky, misinformationing bastards. They are.  But people still harping on how BFL will "never deliver" when they have clearly been delivering for months is just retarded, poorly-informed ignorance.

But BFL eighter are bunch of incompetent, sneaky, misinformationing bastards or they delayed the shipments and mined themselves. They have to ship in second cause as well because the miners use so much electricity they could not mine with more miners anyway

[Aahzman]

i don think they ever want to deliver

Wrong. A lot of people have received their BFL equipment. Hell, I got mine back in july, mined for a bit, then flipped them out to local buyers for about a $1600 profit.

Not saying that BFL aren't a bunch of incompetent, sneaky, misinformationing bastards. They are.  But people still harping on how BFL will "never deliver" when they have clearly been delivering for months is just retarded, poorly-informed ignorance.

But BFL eighter are bunch of incompetent, sneaky, misinformationing bastards or they delayed the shipments and mined themselves. They have to ship in second cause as well because the miners use so much electricity they could not mine with more miners anyway

I don't think they are doing extensive mining with units before shipping them, but that's just my opinion. A 24-36 hour "burn-in" test of each unit is not unreasonable.  If they were mining for weeks with each unit before shipping, and proof of that was made public (to my knowledge, no such proof of massive mining with customer units has been shown) the backlash from their customers, their detractors and the bitcoin community at large would be pretty severe. Right now, it's pretty well confined to a relatively small group of vocal opponents here on bitcointalk, who talk of potential lawsuits, class actions, etc etc. 

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent and lack the manpower/skills to produce more units at a faster pace. Again, just my opinion.

[becoin]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent

They are very competent crooks. BFL was a scam from the very start.

[tinus42]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent and lack the manpower/skills to produce more units at a faster pace. Again, just my opinion.

Really, once they had the designs ready, why didn't they have the units built in China instead of making themselves? It's like Apple making iPhones themselves, by the time the iPhone 5 was announced they'd still be working on the backlog of iPhone 4 orders.

[Aahzman]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent and lack the manpower/skills to produce more units at a faster pace. Again, just my opinion.

Really, once they had the designs ready, why didn't they have the units built in China instead of making themselves? It's like Apple making iPhones themselves, by the time the iPhone 5 was announced they'd still be working on the backlog of iPhone 4 orders.

That would've made sense, but who knows why they chose to try and do the manufacturing in-house? Anyway, as I have no personal stake in The ASIC Warz now, beyond warning my friends and family to avoid BFL like a disease-infested hooker, I'll take my leave of this thread. :-)

[co5hike]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent and lack the manpower/skills to produce more units at a faster pace. Again, just my opinion.

Really, once they had the designs ready, why didn't they have the units built in China instead of making themselves

Maybe they are patriots and give job to US workers. Or maybe just incompetent cowboys, who knows

[lucasjkr]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent and lack the manpower/skills to produce more units at a faster pace. Again, just my opinion.

Really, once they had the designs ready, why didn't they have the units built in China instead of making themselves? It's like Apple making iPhones themselves, by the time the iPhone 5 was announced they'd still be working on the backlog of iPhone 4 orders.

My reading of past blog/forum posts was that perhaps fpgas were built off site, leading to quality issues, so they brought production in house, which was supposed to be a plus (ie more control over production quality, etc). It's just that they failed to realize how arduous the assembly task would be. Hopefully, for their sake and that of their customers, monarch production will be done offshore, and they can either direct the producer where to ship final orders or they accept bulk shipments to their facility for testing and burn-in and then reship to customers

I'm all for made in the USA and jobs, but electronics assembly done in the US? No way, far too expensive for no benefit at all.

[manuel]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent and lack the manpower/skills to produce more units at a faster pace. Again, just my opinion.

Really, once they had the designs ready, why didn't they have the units built in China instead of making themselves? It's like Apple making iPhones themselves, by the time the iPhone 5 was announced they'd still be working on the backlog of iPhone 4 orders.

Maybe because they didn't want the chinese to steal the technology.  The stuff that makes up an iphone is largely off the shelf.  To the degree there are any really high end proprietary components inside I bet they are not manufactured by just any random cheap chinese contract manufacturer...

Chinese have the one of the worst track records in the world for stealing technology and IP

[jerelimZ]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent and lack the manpower/skills to produce more units at a faster pace. Again, just my opinion.

Really, once they had the designs ready, why didn't they have the units built in China instead of making themselves? It's like Apple making iPhones themselves, by the time the iPhone 5 was announced they'd still be working on the backlog of iPhone 4 orders.

Maybe because they didn't want the chinese to steal the technology.  The stuff that makes up an iphone is largely off the shelf.  To the degree there are any really high end proprietary components inside I bet they are not manufactured by just any random cheap chinese contract manufacturer...

Chinese have the one of the worst track records in the world for stealing technology and IP

The chip design itselves is the most important technology and is produced in china. And whou would steal 55nm consuming over 4W/GHs design? Pretty bad design, considering on market are 28nm consuming under 1W/GHs

[Puppet]

Some of you are just plain silly. The difficulty involved in reverse engineering a finished asic in order to "steal" the IP is at least a few orders of magnitude higher than just designing a (better) bitcoin chip.

[sealberrder]

Some of you are just plain silly. The difficulty involved in reverse engineering a finished asic in order to "steal" the IP is at least a few orders of magnitude higher than just designing a (better) bitcoin chip.

Why reverse engineering when the chinese factory has the chip design in electronic format (I believe) ?
Any customer may do reverse engineering ...

[Puppet]

Some of you are just plain silly. The difficulty involved in reverse engineering a finished asic in order to "steal" the IP is at least a few orders of magnitude higher than just designing a (better) bitcoin chip.

Why reverse engineering when the chinese factory has the chip design in electronic format (I believe) ?
Any customer may do reverse engineering ...

Only the fab would have that (globalfoundries for BFL), and no fab is crazy enough to give the design for the masks to anyone else. Not even a chinese fab. And especially not for something as trivial as a bitcoin miner that would probably cost less than $50K to design and breaking that sort of confidence would instakill any fab.

Now you can theoretically try to reverse engineer a finished chip by "sanding" it down layer by layer and putting in under an electro microscope, but no one in their right minds would do that for a bitcoin asic, and even if someone wanted do, they could simply buy a few chips for next to nothing. THe idea that assembly in China is somehow putting BFL "know how" (cough) at risk is ludicrous.

[Farr]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent

They are very competent crooks. BFL was a scam from the very start.

I agree.  I finally clawed all my money back from them by doing direct bank charge backs. Forget pay pal.   Go directly to your card issuer.  If you paid by BTC you're screwed.  One of the drawbacks of digital currency imo.

[ToriAmos1963]

I should have listened to this post before placing an order.  It's been almost 7 months since I ordered and paid for my miner and still nothing.  Even their own customer service's blog (BFL_Jody) is false.  They claim they have shipped ordered that they have not.

Now they have the audacity to ask for more money to upgrade to their newest miner.  I'm so done with this company and based on the response on their own forums, so are hundreds of other customers.  There is no SINGLE POSITIVE post that I came across in the customer service section.

If you're thinking of ordering from these people, trying calling them to see if you can get an actual person on the phone.  Then read a page or so from their forums.  Then if you still think they will deliver on time or provide any customer service, go ahead and order.

Someone mentioned a "small but vocal" group of unsatisfied customers.  Based on past experience and BFL's own forums, I would say the vast majority of their customers are angry and vocal about being lied to and mistreated.

[ToriAmos1963]

 
[/quote]

warning my friends and family to avoid BFL like a disease-infested hooker, I'll take my leave of this thread. :-)

[/quote]

[Noruka]

It's (to me) more plausible that they are just incompetent

They are very competent crooks. BFL was a scam from the very start.