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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1227762 times)
bitwonder
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February 03, 2017, 08:19:03 PM
 #4201

why there is no real exchange right now? is this coin a scam?

https://cryptox.pl/#

https://byteball.slack.com/messages/trading/
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/byteball/#charts


https://byteball.org/

“In the new distribution, 1 GB holding receives the same share as 1.6 BTC. 1 GB is currently traded at 0.05 BTC.”

https://cointelegraph.com/press-releases/cryptocurrency-platform-byteball-schedules-second-round-of-distribution-for-february-full-moon

http://transition.byteball.org/
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nillohit
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February 03, 2017, 08:19:17 PM
 #4202

why there is no real exchange right now? is this coin a scam?
cryptox.pl ......... no this no scam or shit alt coin

П    |⧛ ☛  Join the signature campaign and earn free PI daily!  ✅ |⧛    П
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drays
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February 03, 2017, 08:24:00 PM
 #4203

why there is no real exchange right now? is this coin a scam?

This coin is based on completely new technology, which makes it a bit harder for the exchanges to list it, as they have to integrate the new stuff they don't have currently.

As per scam... well, scam coins are explicitly created for dumpingtrading, so typically they have all kinds of exchanges instantly!! Grin.

... this space is not for rent ...
drays
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February 03, 2017, 08:33:05 PM
 #4204

The keys are smaller in size than the original payloads but still have to be stored privately and backed up, so the backup problem is not solved.

The best solution of the backup problem is imho multisig.

Sorry if this was addressed previously, but if the backup is a problem (and I believe it is actually), why won't the wallet create a backup automatically after each transaction, and save it to separate designated place (on the same device as a first step). What I am missing here?

... this space is not for rent ...
freezal
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February 03, 2017, 08:36:27 PM
 #4205

Hi tonych,

Shower thought (almost certainly a stupid one as always happens when you don't exert deep thinking, as I haven't finished reading the white paper, and have no time right now to research feasibility):

Would it be possible to optionally (because it changes somewhat the privacy/anonymity model) save assets (including blackbytes) in the public DAG as a compressed and encrypted payload (not much differently of what is saved locally today) paying due commissions?
Maybe we could now use a different seed for each asset to generate private keys for them and some hash of these to encrypt assets payload after each transaction.
Wallets would scan the DAG trying to decrypt asset payloads to get balance and history (some optimizations may apply).
Somehow old saved payloads in the DAG could be pruned as assets carry their own history.

Pro:
- Massive improvement in usability, no need to back-up local assets after each transaction (simplicity is beauty).
Cons:
- Privacy model changes (thus to use it optionally) as now assets history only remains private as long as no one discover a way to decrypt the payload which is now publicly available.
- Increased storage requisites for the DAG (but it'd be optional and has costs)


If it were possible, users would have to store huge numbers of decryption keys because every payload has to be encrypted with its own key. 

The idea was to generate those encryption keys from the random generated seed.  When you need a random address for bytes you calculate/generate it from the seed.  Encryption keys could be generated from a seed too (one seed for each asset class maybe for security reasons, i.e. one for blackbytes, other for asset X and etc.). If they are generated from a seed, only the seed need to be saved (one time operation).
If you already generate private keys from a seed for each non spended asset (I don't really know), you could generate encryption keys from those pks by calculating some hash from them, not needing an extra seed only for the encryption keys.


They would convey a subset of these keys (instead of he payloads) to the new owner when making a payment.  The keys are smaller in size than the original payloads but still have to be stored privately and backed up, so the backup problem is not solved.

Maybe my deficiency, but my understand is that we could retrieve (and only the owner could) the same data we have today locally (for blackbytes for instance) from the DAG to the wallet, and with this the new transaction could occur privately, as it is today, between the parts.  The receiver would than save the data in the DAG, instead of locally, using his own encryption keys generated from his own seeds.

The best solution of the backup problem is imho multisig.

Yes, this works but maybe not for all scenarios.
For high values and strict security models of some institutions (for instance, cold wallets) it's hard to imagine that your back-up depend on many devices on-line syncing between them. If the other idea works (which is unlikely cause it must have any number of flaws), only the seeds would need to be backed-up.

Please note that I am not even suggesting it to be implemented in Byteball.
It was only a thought exercise if you can find some time to teach.
SatoNatomato
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February 03, 2017, 08:37:46 PM
 #4206

Hi tonych,

Shower thought (almost certainly a stupid one as always happens when you don't exert deep thinking, as I haven't finished reading the white paper, and have no time right now to research feasibility):

Would it be possible to optionally (because it changes somewhat the privacy/anonymity model) save assets (including blackbytes) in the public DAG as a compressed and encrypted payload (not much differently of what is saved locally today) paying due commissions?
Maybe we could now use a different seed for each asset to generate private keys for them and some hash of these to encrypt assets payload after each transaction.
Wallets would scan the DAG trying to decrypt asset payloads to get balance and history (some optimizations may apply).
Somehow old saved payloads in the DAG could be pruned as assets carry their own history.

Pro:
- Massive improvement in usability, no need to back-up local assets after each transaction (simplicity is beauty).
Cons:
- Privacy model changes (thus to use it optionally) as now assets history only remains private as long as no one discover a way to decrypt the payload which is now publicly available.
- Increased storage requisites for the DAG (but it'd be optional and has costs)

There is nothing stopping you from tar/zipping up, encrypting and storing your own blackbytes as data anywhere public, even on Byteball. But thats just reckless in my opinion, aside from increased costs.

There is really no benefit to storing the whole thing in Byteball, if you actually are so certain of your encryption and passwords not getting compromised store it elsewhere were costs are lower. Compared to say storing the data in ipfs and instead paying lower fee by storing the hash to the ipfs data in Byteball. Well actually there is something to explore here.

Like this, tar compress the blackbytes data, encrypt with AES passphrase, the sha256sum of the blackbytes.data.tar.bz2.enc is published to ipfs (you are seeding it now). The sha256sum+salt of your passhprase (or just bcrypt or whatever that thing is called) is published as ipns name pointing to the sha256sum of encrypted data. Now you can look up your blackbytes encrypted data if you know the passphrase and lookup in ipns what the hash to the encrypted data is. This ipns name is what you store in Byteball if you really want.

IPNS, because if you want to update your data, when sending/receiving blackbytes, you publish that, and repoint ipns to the latest blackbytes-encrypted data which you now also seed.

In this way you offload everything to ipfs/ipns and really you dont need to keep any new hashes in Byteball. If you want to help seed/share others encrypted data, and others to help you, well, thats easy if you want to just publish hashes and begin sharing things you dont know what it is, and if you want economical share only other people who also share/constribute, thats more tricky.

I wouldnt do this though.

Thank you for your reply.
I think I could understand your suggestions and they are interesting and have their own merits, but the point of my post was to have all this integrated into Byteball.
The goal was to make possible and automated that a mechanism like the one tonych offered today to recover all bytes balances and transactions of any wallet by just typing the seed would also work for assets (blackbytes included).
The idea was to use a generated random seed (not a human password or passphrase) not only to generate keys for assets but, via extra hashes of those keys, to generate a random encryption key for each transaction in order to break traceability of saved payloads.
Ah I see. That makes sense.

The keys are smaller in size than the original payloads but still have to be stored privately and backed up, so the backup problem is not solved.

The best solution of the backup problem is imho multisig.

Sorry if this was addressed previously, but if the backup is a problem (and I believe it is actually), why won't the wallet create a backup automatically after each transaction, and save it to separate designated place (on the same device as a first step). What I am missing here?
There was an idea by someone to just zip up the data folder, or even just the parts containing blackbytes, and use that as backup.

Maybe that is low-priority feature because multi-device/multi-sig is easier way to backup?
ArabMist
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February 03, 2017, 09:08:57 PM
 #4207

Can someone kindly link me to the page that details future distribution dates at least for the next year and also percentage of total that will be given out.

Many thanks in advance.
escapefrom3dom
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February 03, 2017, 09:11:50 PM
 #4208

Can someone kindly link me to the page that details future distribution dates at least for the next year and also percentage of total that will be given out.

Many thanks in advance.

better check the main web https://byteball.org/ for such info.

HomoHenning
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February 03, 2017, 09:15:41 PM
 #4209

why there is no real exchange right now? is this coin a scam?
cryptox.pl ......... no this no scam or shit alt coin
this is not a serious exchange yet where I would trade soory. why not on bittrex or polo? 10 million market cap now....
SatoNatomato
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February 03, 2017, 09:19:13 PM
 #4210

why there is no real exchange right now? is this coin a scam?
cryptox.pl ......... no this no scam or shit alt coin
this is not a serious exchange yet where I would trade soory. why not on bittrex or polo? 10 million market cap now....
Give it a chance.

Otherwise you can try the trading bot in the Byteball wallet.
HomoHenning
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February 03, 2017, 09:19:16 PM
 #4211

why there is no real exchange right now? is this coin a scam?

This coin is based on completely new technology, which makes it a bit harder for the exchanges to list it, as they have to integrate the new stuff they don't have currently.

As per scam... well, scam coins are explicitly created for dumpingtrading, so typically they have all kinds of exchanges instantly!! Grin.
I understand . But why a small exchange can do it and polo cant do it. makes no sense...
davidoski
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February 03, 2017, 09:58:17 PM
 #4212

why there is no real exchange right now? is this coin a scam?

This coin is based on completely new technology, which makes it a bit harder for the exchanges to list it, as they have to integrate the new stuff they don't have currently.

As per scam... well, scam coins are explicitly created for dumpingtrading, so typically they have all kinds of exchanges instantly!! Grin.
I understand . But why a small exchange can do it and polo cant do it. makes no sense...
We don't run Polo exchange to answer your question. Ask Polo operators.

Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
str4wm4n
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February 03, 2017, 10:03:11 PM
 #4213

The longer it stays off big exchanges the longer I can accumulate at low prices.

SHHHH!!!!
oriolpont
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February 03, 2017, 10:31:34 PM
 #4214

The distribution model encourages holding, month to month, so I expect to see the price steadily increase.

Not really. New issuance is fully proportional, so it is actually debasement. Because of this, no value changes hands and, rationally, the market cap should stay the same.

There is an additional issuance to BTC holders too, but it is too small to be relevant.
Ha5hedout
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February 03, 2017, 11:00:20 PM
 #4215

Can i use blockchain.info to verify my address because the address that has been verified is not my original one and has a zero balance? Also can i go through the process again without  issues or should i generate a new address?
escapefrom3dom
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February 03, 2017, 11:12:34 PM
 #4216

Can i use blockchain.info to verify my address because the address that has been verified is not my original one and has a zero balance? Also can i go through the process again without  issues or should i generate a new address?

verify ur btc address within ur btc wallet (receiving addresses).

and then – check the connection on http://transition.byteball.org/

Ha5hedout
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February 03, 2017, 11:22:53 PM
 #4217

Can i use blockchain.info to verify my address because the address that has been verified is not my original one and has a zero balance? Also can i go through the process again without  issues or should i generate a new address?

verify ur btc address within ur btc wallet (receiving addresses).

and then – check the connection on http://transition.byteball.org/

Thanks for the reply, Yeah i checked, my receiving address isnt there but that address that has been confirmed is?
somogyipeti
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February 03, 2017, 11:28:53 PM
 #4218

Will be here another distribution?
stkuser1
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February 03, 2017, 11:32:17 PM
 #4219

Version 1.2.0 is released https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases.
It includes ability to partially recover from seed:

https://i.imgur.com/ntvfzQq.png

As was said before, the seed doesn't allow to recover blackbytes because they are not stored on the public database.
Recovery works only in full wallets because it scans the local copy of the database for addresses generated from the seed.

To restore your bytes (but not blackbytes) from seed, you will need to download the wallet, choose "Full wallet", wait that it syncs and then go to the Recovery menu in Settings.

Also, a number of small bugs fixed in this release.
Great Work! Will give it a try:)
kaicrypzen
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February 03, 2017, 11:34:41 PM
 #4220

Can i use blockchain.info to verify my address because the address that has been verified is not my original one and has a zero balance? Also can i go through the process again without  issues or should i generate a new address?

verify ur btc address within ur btc wallet (receiving addresses).

and then – check the connection on http://transition.byteball.org/

Thanks for the reply, Yeah i checked, my receiving address isnt there but that address that has been confirmed is?

Do you mean you linked a bitcoin address that isn't yours? Anyway, you can link another bitcoin address to the same byteball address or to another. Also, remember that when you link by doing a micropayment, your funds are very likely to be transferred to a change address (which is under your control) and that you might have to send your funds back to your original linked address. Always make sure the linked Bitcoin address is yours before sending anything to it.

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