Bitcoin Forum
November 28, 2020, 12:10:13 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.20.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 [251] 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 ... 1119 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1219089 times)
Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2128
Merit: 1009

Newbie


View Profile
February 14, 2017, 09:29:52 PM
 #5001

Just leave me alone dude...

I know why my presence annoys you. And I know how this story will end - you'll create another account and will try to scam another community. I've seen such endings numerous times, few of them, probably, with your participation under other nicknames.
1606522213
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606522213

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606522213
Reply with quote  #2

1606522213
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1606522213
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606522213

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606522213
Reply with quote  #2

1606522213
Report to moderator
HomoHenning
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 500



View Profile
February 14, 2017, 09:45:20 PM
 #5002

I embedded a valentine's day message for my gf in the dag last night  Cheesy

https://explorer.byteball.org/#JwUteajaUhsM0iO9NdJRaO10WvLobxf29BYZj4wFNjw=

BYTEBALL RULES!
how much was it in $?
SatoNatomato
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 250


View Profile
February 14, 2017, 09:57:38 PM
 #5003

Just leave me alone dude...

I know why my presence annoys you. And I know how this story will end - you'll create another account and will try to scam another community. I've seen such endings numerous times, few of them, probably, with your participation under other nicknames.
I assure you this is my first and only account on this forum.

But yeah, I may just give up, you seem to be very persistent. You would have driven me away from Iota and away from Byteball, so you win, and you get to stay in this community and watch over it.

EDIT. Yeah Im done, fuck you Come-from-Beyond. Selling my bytes on cryptox.pl, Im out.
davidoski
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 297
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 14, 2017, 10:19:55 PM
 #5004


Besides, as far as I know, tonych can't do anything if economy decide to change some witness [..]
I guess, this puts me in the "mindless cheerleaders" category then Wink.


Let me quote the most well informed person:


You are correct, if 12 witnesses so decide, they can block all attempts to replace them. But this is exactly what they were expected not to do when they were added themselves.  If a minority of witnesses appears untrustworthy, they can be promptly replaced before they reach majority.

I discuss in the whitepaper a mechanism which helps make the behavior of witnesses more predictable and earlier detect any breaches of trust:  a would-be witness pledges to follow the witness lists of a few (possibly larger than 12) prominent industry leaders.  The pledge is not enforceable in the protocol but publicly auditable, any breach of the pledge would immediately make the witness a candidate for removal.


I guess, this puts me in the "mindless cheerleaders" category then Wink.


Yes, indeed. I would add ignorant to this and it's not funny.

Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
portabella
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 14, 2017, 10:24:28 PM
 #5005


Besides, as far as I know, tonych can't do anything if economy decide to change some witness [..]
I guess, this puts me in the "mindless cheerleaders" category then Wink.


Let me quote the most well informed person:


You are correct, if 12 witnesses so decide, they can block all attempts to replace them. But this is exactly what they were expected not to do when they were added themselves.  If a minority of witnesses appears untrustworthy, they can be promptly replaced before they reach majority.

I discuss in the whitepaper a mechanism which helps make the behavior of witnesses more predictable and earlier detect any breaches of trust:  a would-be witness pledges to follow the witness lists of a few (possibly larger than 12) prominent industry leaders.  The pledge is not enforceable in the protocol but publicly auditable, any breach of the pledge would immediately make the witness a candidate for removal.

Begin spreading the trust.

The witness 7ULGTPFB72TOYA67YNGMX2Y445FSTL7O replaces UENJPVZ7HVHM6QGVGT6MWOJGGRTUTJXQ
tonych
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 917
Merit: 867


View Profile WWW
February 14, 2017, 11:36:58 PM
 #5006

If by "centralized 'mechanism'" you mean the fact that tonych control all 12 witnesses I'd say I don't think the mechanism of changing witnesses is somehow deactivate 'till the distribution is over.
I think it's in full blow validity and someone who present a very compelling argument to be one of the twelve witnesses could assume the role.
Now, tonych may have any number of reasons to be in this role, but one would be: the network had to start securely somewhere, and the other being: no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.

Finally some voice of reason. I felt so lonely with my arguments among all "hodl, to the moon etc." mindless cheerleaders. Thanks for that. It would be nice to hear from tonych what is his plan (if any) for relinquishing control over witnesses and breaking down the current one man cartel. It's obvious that it's very early to talk about that but some plan needs to be outlined if the system is to be considered in the future something more than privately controlled currency by one man. It's so centralized at the moment that the wallet "decentralized value" slogan sounds like a joke.

That's a valid concern and freezal got it right: the network had to start centralized and no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.  I'm going to use every opportunity to relinquish control over 11 out of 12 witnesses in favor of reputable individuals/organizations/companies that are willing to be part of the network.  That would make the network only stronger thanks to both their involvement and the network becoming more decentralized.

Simplicity is beauty
yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000

.


View Profile WWW
February 15, 2017, 12:10:05 AM
 #5007

If by "centralized 'mechanism'" you mean the fact that tonych control all 12 witnesses I'd say I don't think the mechanism of changing witnesses is somehow deactivate 'till the distribution is over.
I think it's in full blow validity and someone who present a very compelling argument to be one of the twelve witnesses could assume the role.
Now, tonych may have any number of reasons to be in this role, but one would be: the network had to start securely somewhere, and the other being: no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.

Finally some voice of reason. I felt so lonely with my arguments among all "hodl, to the moon etc." mindless cheerleaders. Thanks for that. It would be nice to hear from tonych what is his plan (if any) for relinquishing control over witnesses and breaking down the current one man cartel. It's obvious that it's very early to talk about that but some plan needs to be outlined if the system is to be considered in the future something more than privately controlled currency by one man. It's so centralized at the moment that the wallet "decentralized value" slogan sounds like a joke.

That's a valid concern and freezal got it right: the network had to start centralized and no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.  I'm going to use every opportunity to relinquish control over 11 out of 12 witnesses in favor of reputable individuals/organizations/companies that are willing to be part of the network.  That would make the network only stronger thanks to both their involvement and the network becoming more decentralized.

This is even more difficult task than distribution of tokens. Whatever you do, there will be some people who will complain that selection of witnesses is unfair and therefore the network is centralized and corrupted.

.
metamorphin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106
Merit: 1004


No risk, no fun!


View Profile WWW
February 15, 2017, 12:47:36 AM
 #5008

If by "centralized 'mechanism'" you mean the fact that tonych control all 12 witnesses I'd say I don't think the mechanism of changing witnesses is somehow deactivate 'till the distribution is over.
I think it's in full blow validity and someone who present a very compelling argument to be one of the twelve witnesses could assume the role.
Now, tonych may have any number of reasons to be in this role, but one would be: the network had to start securely somewhere, and the other being: no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.

Finally some voice of reason. I felt so lonely with my arguments among all "hodl, to the moon etc." mindless cheerleaders. Thanks for that. It would be nice to hear from tonych what is his plan (if any) for relinquishing control over witnesses and breaking down the current one man cartel. It's obvious that it's very early to talk about that but some plan needs to be outlined if the system is to be considered in the future something more than privately controlled currency by one man. It's so centralized at the moment that the wallet "decentralized value" slogan sounds like a joke.

That's a valid concern and freezal got it right: the network had to start centralized and no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.  I'm going to use every opportunity to relinquish control over 11 out of 12 witnesses in favor of reputable individuals/organizations/companies that are willing to be part of the network.  That would make the network only stronger thanks to both their involvement and the network becoming more decentralized.

This is even more difficult task than distribution of tokens. Whatever you do, there will be some people who will complain that selection of witnesses is unfair and therefore the network is centralized and corrupted.

Let them speaking about centralized and corrupted nonsense. :-)

I think, the next months, Tony will show us, how DAG works and how awesome this new technology will be inspired by many developers.

Greetz
Steve
freezal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 02:11:00 AM
 #5009


Besides, as far as I know, tonych can't do anything if economy decide to change some witness [..]
I guess, this puts me in the "mindless cheerleaders" category then Wink.


Let me quote the most well informed person:


You are correct, if 12 witnesses so decide, they can block all attempts to replace them. But this is exactly what they were expected not to do when they were added themselves.  If a minority of witnesses appears untrustworthy, they can be promptly replaced before they reach majority.

I discuss in the whitepaper a mechanism which helps make the behavior of witnesses more predictable and earlier detect any breaches of trust:  a would-be witness pledges to follow the witness lists of a few (possibly larger than 12) prominent industry leaders.  The pledge is not enforceable in the protocol but publicly auditable, any breach of the pledge would immediately make the witness a candidate for removal.

To be fair, and in retrospect, I probably misunderstood that you were not concerned discussing byteball centralization generically and in theory, as a quality, but in particular, as it manifest itself at the current situation and stage of the project, with the real people involved, as I think I understand now, and for that I appologize.

As for the general/theoretical situation of collusion of most witnesses and how impotent the rogue cartel would be against an economy that value its platform a lot, please see pages 21/22 of white paper by the same author (not cited here for brevity) about how to deal with them (schism).

Still to be seen how easy/hard collusion of majority witnesses could form, mechanisms of changing witnesses, schism, would be coordinated etc, keeping in mind all incentives (economical, reputational etc) involved.

Yes, indeed. I would add ignorant to this and it's not funny.

That was easy as per my own admission there. Smiley
str4wm4n
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1614
Merit: 1000


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 02:34:22 AM
 #5010


Besides, as far as I know, tonych can't do anything if economy decide to change some witness [..]
I guess, this puts me in the "mindless cheerleaders" category then Wink.


Let me quote the most well informed person:


You are correct, if 12 witnesses so decide, they can block all attempts to replace them. But this is exactly what they were expected not to do when they were added themselves.  If a minority of witnesses appears untrustworthy, they can be promptly replaced before they reach majority.

I discuss in the whitepaper a mechanism which helps make the behavior of witnesses more predictable and earlier detect any breaches of trust:  a would-be witness pledges to follow the witness lists of a few (possibly larger than 12) prominent industry leaders.  The pledge is not enforceable in the protocol but publicly auditable, any breach of the pledge would immediately make the witness a candidate for removal.

Begin spreading the trust.

The witness 7ULGTPFB72TOYA67YNGMX2Y445FSTL7O replaces UENJPVZ7HVHM6QGVGT6MWOJGGRTUTJXQ


portabella is an awesome and knowledgeable person in my opinion from interacting with him in the slack
davidoski
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 297
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 15, 2017, 04:35:26 AM
 #5011


That's a valid concern and freezal got it right: the network had to start centralized and no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.  I'm going to use every opportunity to relinquish control over 11 out of 12 witnesses in favor of reputable individuals/organizations/companies that are willing to be part of the network.  That would make the network only stronger thanks to both their involvement and the network becoming more decentralized.

Thanks for clarifying that. The other concern that keeps coming to my mind is this: what happens if 2 or more of the 12 witnesses goes down (offline) for various reasons (hardware mulfunction, operator not interested in running it anymore, government seizure etc.). Will this cause any network disruption? If yes, what kind of disruptions would that be?

Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2128
Merit: 1009

Newbie


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 06:44:28 AM
 #5012

portabella is an awesome and knowledgeable person in my opinion from interacting with him in the slack

Actually, you have raised 2 red flags:

1. Con artists look as the most awesome persons.
2. Con artists pretend to be experts.

Just a simple question: Do areas of expertise of SatoNatomato and portabella overlap much?
Big Naturals
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 267


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 06:56:13 AM
 #5013



That's a valid concern and freezal got it right: the network had to start centralized and no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.  I'm going to use every opportunity to relinquish control over 11 out of 12 witnesses in favor of reputable individuals/organizations/companies that are willing to be part of the network.  That would make the network only stronger thanks to both their involvement and the network becoming more decentralized.

You could have an election for 12 witnesses like Komodo did for their 64 notary nodes.
devlin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 272
Merit: 250


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 06:57:55 AM
 #5014

Regarding to the 12 witnesses, this number (12) is chosen on some calculations? More witnesses, let's say 24, it's not more secure?
Karartma1
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030
Merit: 1273


Be Revolutionary or Die Trying


View Profile WWW
February 15, 2017, 07:37:04 AM
 #5015



That's a valid concern and freezal got it right: the network had to start centralized and no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.  I'm going to use every opportunity to relinquish control over 11 out of 12 witnesses in favor of reputable individuals/organizations/companies that are willing to be part of the network.  That would make the network only stronger thanks to both their involvement and the network becoming more decentralized.

You could have an election for 12 witnesses like Komodo did for their 64 notary nodes.


Why bringing politics in when there's no need for it? Human intervention shouldn't be as strong as this. I mean Bitcoin works because there's very little human intervention. There's a lot of politics outside the protocol (big blocks, small blocks, BU not BU) but that doesn't harm the continuation of the network.
I'm confused on this one  Roll Eyes

████
████
████
████
████
████
████
████

████

████

████

████

████
     ▄▄▄ ▄▄███▄▄
    ███ ▄██████▀▀█▄▄
   ▐██ ▄██████  ▄████▄
   ▐█ ▄███████████████   █▄
   █ ▄█████████████▀▀  ▄███
   ▌▄████████▀▀▀  ▄▄▄████▀
   ▀▀▀▀▀   ▄▄▄██████▀▀ ▄
███████████████▀▀▀  ▄▄██
 ▀███████▄▄▄▄▄▄███████▀
      ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄███▀
        ▀██████████▄
           ▀▀▀▀ ▄█▀
               █▀
..Blender..
..W A L L E T
████
████
████
████
████
████
████
████

████

████

████

████

████
[BTC
  BTC
.
BTC
Full control
over your funds
             ▄▄████▄▄
         ▄▄████████████▄▄
      ▄██████████ █████████▄
█▀█▄▄▄███████████ █▀█▀██████
▀▀▀         ▀████      ▀████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▀▀▄    █ ████  ████
     ▄▄▄ ▀▄ ▀▀▀▀█        ███
     █▄█   ▀▀▀▀▀█ █████  ███
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█       ▄██
   ▄▄▄     ▄█████ █▄█▄████
   █▄█▀▀▀▀███████ ██████▀
            ▀████████▀▀
              ▀▀██▀▀
].ANONYMOUS...............
.SEGWIT ADDRESSES..
.TRUSTED.....................
// /.
       ▄▄████████▄▄
     ▄█████▀▀▀▀█████▄
    ████▀        ▀▀███▄
   ███▀            ▀███  █▄
  ▐███              ▀▀▀▄███
  ▐███            ▄▄▄████▀
  ▀▀▀      ▄▄▄██████▀▀▄
███████████████▀▀▀  ▄▄██
 ▀███████▄▄▄▄▄▄███████▀
      ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄███▀
        ▀██████████▄
           ▀▀▀▀ ▄█▀
               █▀
.
From the creators of
Blender.io
tobeaj2mer01
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1098
Merit: 1000


Angel investor.


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 08:04:37 AM
 #5016

What is price of Blackbyteball?

Sirx: SQyHJdSRPk5WyvQ5rJpwDUHrLVSvK2ffFa
Krypt
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1053



View Profile
February 15, 2017, 08:46:10 AM
 #5017

Regarding to the 12 witnesses, this number (12) is chosen on some calculations? More witnesses, let's say 24, it's not more secure?
Read the whitepaper, its explained there.
tonych
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 917
Merit: 867


View Profile WWW
February 15, 2017, 09:57:08 AM
 #5018


That's a valid concern and freezal got it right: the network had to start centralized and no one's showed up yet with the needed reputation and credibility.  I'm going to use every opportunity to relinquish control over 11 out of 12 witnesses in favor of reputable individuals/organizations/companies that are willing to be part of the network.  That would make the network only stronger thanks to both their involvement and the network becoming more decentralized.

Thanks for clarifying that. The other concern that keeps coming to my mind is this: what happens if 2 or more of the 12 witnesses goes down (offline) for various reasons (hardware mulfunction, operator not interested in running it anymore, government seizure etc.). Will this cause any network disruption? If yes, what kind of disruptions would that be?

As long as the majority (7 out of 12) of witnesses are online and behave honestly, the network is healthy.

Simplicity is beauty
devlin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 272
Merit: 250


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 10:06:46 AM
 #5019

Regarding to the 12 witnesses, this number (12) is chosen on some calculations? More witnesses, let's say 24, it's not more secure?
Read the whitepaper, its explained there.

I readed. But perhaps I not fully understand this system. Not yet.
schnib
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 270
Merit: 250


View Profile
February 15, 2017, 10:33:11 AM
 #5020

What is price of Blackbyteball?

You can go to Slack. It is just traded there as far as i know.
I think it is about 1/8 of Bytes.

Pages: « 1 ... 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 [251] 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 ... 1119 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!