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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012886 times)
Phoenix1969
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November 25, 2013, 05:03:30 PM
 #23181



No details. Coming SoonTM

Wow!  20nm AND early 2014!

That MUST be the "incoming news" announcement from 'orama.

My big question would be: is KNC going to offer any kind of discounts for the late October delivery customers, the ones that suffered the big losses? I mean, I personally paid $131200 at current exchange rate for 1Th/s provided by an overheated Jupiter (running at full speed though under these high temps, otherwise all boards with die #0 issue) and 2 Saturns with all 4 boards with die #0 issue and forced to run under 0.98 because somehow 0.99 broke them and now I have one ASIC on each of them with all cores off on either 0.98.1 beta, 0.98.1 official or 0.99, but working just fine with 0.98 and dead die #0. My miners so far mined about $20500 at current exchange rate, so, yeah, ROI is out of question, just hoping to recover as much as possible from my investment and looking at KNC to see if they really care about their 1st batch customers as they proudly claimed once on their website!

I'm wondering the position in the miner of the modules with the die #0 issue.  Do the dies on the outboard fail more easily due to center air flow cooling the inside VRMs better than the outside VRMs so the outside VRMs heat the outer side of the ASIC more than the inner?
sounds like a good theory.....I was also thinking the die 0 problem was actually a vrm problem.....  or at least they are related in some type of connective/thermal issue.


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November 25, 2013, 05:08:39 PM
 #23182

"I'm wondering the position in the miner of the modules with the die #0 issue."

All of them came with this issue. 4 broken boards in the Jupiter and 2 in each Saturn I own. Of course, KNC offered to RMA all 8 boards, but I passed so far because of the 0.98.1 beta FW that managed to make my Jupiter and one of the Saturns work with all dies on, while the other Saturn was a bit more difficult to keep stable at high temps, but still got periods of time with all 8 dies on, sometimes 7 and sometimes 6. Unfortunately, something happened after I used 0.99 on my Saturns, one of them has a complete dead ASIC showing all 48 cores off (bfgminer doesn't even shows that module), the other starts with all cores on, but also turns them all off after a while. That's only happening on 0.98.1 beta or 0.98.1 official or 0.99. Both machines runs "normally" with die #0 off on 0.98 though. Weird enough, 0.99 didn't affect my Jupiter though, which was happily hashing with all dies on (and most of the cores) until today, when somehow it turned all die #0 off, but I switched to 0.98.1 beta and after the usual 1h heating up modules, it now hashes again with all dies on.

Failures that pervasive I'd suspect your power supply choice and/or noise on your AC line.  But still, to be comprehensive I'd take one of your Saturns, reduce it to a single module that runs perfectly, then swap that out for all the other modules labeling each and characterizing each.  The records would help I would think.

And don't move the ribbon cable with the module nor the blue power cable, stick with those that produce the 100% functional "Mercury" of one of your Saturns.



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Rampion
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November 25, 2013, 05:12:48 PM
 #23183

If there are miners out there willing to take losses in BTC for the sake of $ gains, my offer still stands: send me 100 BTC now and I promise I'll send you back 60 BTC once the value of BTC doubles. No hassle, no electricity cost, no hardware failures!

LOL, good analogy, I will use it everytime someone brags about how they had positive ROI because the BTC/USD exchange rate skyrocketed.

Still, for many individuals buying a miner with a CC is the easiest way to enter Bitcoin - OTC or wiring $$ to the exchanges is difficult for some people. But yeah, it's a very expensive way of entering BTC: historically buying has been superior to mining, and that's true 99% of the time except for some notable exceptions (Avalon batch #1 customers for ex.)

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November 25, 2013, 05:16:23 PM
 #23184

"I'm wondering the position in the miner of the modules with the die #0 issue."

All of them came with this issue. 4 broken boards in the Jupiter and 2 in each Saturn I own. Of course, KNC offered to RMA all 8 boards, but I passed so far because of the 0.98.1 beta FW that managed to make my Jupiter and one of the Saturns work with all dies on, while the other Saturn was a bit more difficult to keep stable at high temps, but still got periods of time with all 8 dies on, sometimes 7 and sometimes 6. Unfortunately, something happened after I used 0.99 on my Saturns, one of them has a complete dead ASIC showing all 48 cores off (bfgminer doesn't even shows that module), the other starts with all cores on, but also turns them all off after a while. That's only happening on 0.98.1 beta or 0.98.1 official or 0.99. Both machines runs "normally" with die #0 off on 0.98 though. Weird enough, 0.99 didn't affect my Jupiter though, which was happily hashing with all dies on (and most of the cores) until today, when somehow it turned all die #0 off, but I switched to 0.98.1 beta and after the usual 1h heating up modules, it now hashes again with all dies on.

Failures that pervasive I'd suspect your power supply choice and/or noise on your AC line.  But still, to be comprehensive I'd take one of your Saturns, reduce it to a single module that runs perfectly, then swap that out for all the other modules labeling each and characterizing each.  The records would help I would think.
agreed...I'd be seriously looking at your power supply as a whole....not just the PSU.
are you using a SINGLE rail PSU....not a multi?...
did you remove the blu pci patchcords?
is your miner on a separate circuit than other power -hungry home devices?
did you try keeping the breeze off the vrm's?
no more than 2 jupiters on a 20 amp circuit?
good luck.


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soy
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November 25, 2013, 05:19:26 PM
 #23185

"I'm wondering the position in the miner of the modules with the die #0 issue."

All of them came with this issue. 4 broken boards in the Jupiter and 2 in each Saturn I own. Of course, KNC offered to RMA all 8 boards, but I passed so far because of the 0.98.1 beta FW that managed to make my Jupiter and one of the Saturns work with all dies on, while the other Saturn was a bit more difficult to keep stable at high temps, but still got periods of time with all 8 dies on, sometimes 7 and sometimes 6. Unfortunately, something happened after I used 0.99 on my Saturns, one of them has a complete dead ASIC showing all 48 cores off (bfgminer doesn't even shows that module), the other starts with all cores on, but also turns them all off after a while. That's only happening on 0.98.1 beta or 0.98.1 official or 0.99. Both machines runs "normally" with die #0 off on 0.98 though. Weird enough, 0.99 didn't affect my Jupiter though, which was happily hashing with all dies on (and most of the cores) until today, when somehow it turned all die #0 off, but I switched to 0.98.1 beta and after the usual 1h heating up modules, it now hashes again with all dies on.

Failures that pervasive I'd suspect your power supply choice and/or noise on your AC line.  But still, to be comprehensive I'd take one of your Saturns, reduce it to a single module that runs perfectly, then swap that out for all the other modules labeling each and characterizing each.  The records would help I would think.
agreed...I'd be seriously looking at your power supply as a whole....not just the PSU.
are you using a SINGLE rail PSU....not a multi?...
did you remove the blu pci patchcords?
is your miner on a separate circuit than other power -hungry home devices?
did you try keeping the breeze off the vrm's?
good luck.

Having noticed a problem with add-on multi-speed fans and likely spike noise from their speed control, there may be something nearby.  Faster switching is always happening.  As switching speed increases the more vertical the rise and fall and this is desirable because it means less wasted power BUT an infinitely vertical rise or fall will produce infinite harmonics.

Maybe a cheap wall dimmer.



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November 25, 2013, 05:23:52 PM
 #23186

Anyone got a November tracking no besides the one mentioned in KNC Forums?
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November 25, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
 #23187

The power line could be the problem indeed. As for PSU I'm using 2 X Enermax Maxrevo 1500W (gold), one powering the Jupiter, the other powering the 2 saturns. They have 4 12V rails available for PCI-e and I simply use one rail for each module.
My Jupiter runs just fine on 0.98.1 beta and it ran fine on 0.99 since release until today, when I found it running with all die #0 offline so i switched back to 0.98.1 beta. Just the 2 Saturns seems to have been affected. They still run "ok" with only die #0 offline on 0.98.
By the way, both PSU's are getting power from the same line.

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
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November 25, 2013, 05:28:58 PM
 #23188

Anyone got a November tracking no besides the one mentioned in KNC Forums?

Not yet, thought mine would be today.

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November 25, 2013, 05:29:43 PM
 #23189

COOL, I just noticed they only mention a single model...."Neptune"
This will solve many of the issues selling smaller machines... and make Customer service a breeze!! I really hope that's what it means!...


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robix
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November 25, 2013, 05:32:14 PM
 #23190

Anyone got a November tracking no besides the one mentioned in KNC Forums?

Not yet, thought mine would be today.
May I ask your order no? Mine is 70xx.
chrono030
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November 25, 2013, 05:33:51 PM
 #23191

Just a bit of math...They haven't announced if they are doing a full custom yet that I can tell (someone feel free to correct me here).  But I was curious how the performance of the Nepture would shape up by simply just a die shrink:

TSMC's 20nm process technology can provide 30 percent higher speed, 1.9 times the density, or 25 percent less power than its 28nm technology.

If we keep with KNC's previous figures (after optimization for batch 2), we could end up seeing devices

Low Potential
140 GH/S * 1.9 = 266 gh/s per module
Similar power usage stats as gen 1

High potential using batch 2 figures:
175 GH/S * 1.9 = 333 gh/s per module
Similar power usage stats as gen 1

A box (with an equivalent number of boards as a current gen Jupiter) would result in 1 TH/S on the low end or 1.4 TH/s on the high end.  I would expect pricing to be around 7k (or around 8.5 BTC at today's rates).  For a unit delivered Feb 1 (unlikely), You would wind up mining anywhere between 9.7 and 12 BTC as of mid-may 2015

This would all go out the window if it was full custom, at which point 2-2.5 TH/s may be within reach.
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November 25, 2013, 05:34:25 PM
 #23192

i am testing right now cgminer-tune with my jupiter that has got some problems at the beginning and is mining at 520GH with 3.8.1. i can report that the jupiter is hashing now at 480GH Sad. and i am not sure but it takes some time till the working diff has changed usually i think it got changed faster. i am mining on eligius btw.

i will update you in 2-3h.

edit:
after one hour it is working at 511GH/s

just an update:

jupiter one: FW0.99 3.8.1@523GH/s AVG HW2,4% - FW0.99 3.8.2tune@513GH/s AVG HW1,4% (3h working)
jupiter two: FW0.99 3.8.1@564GH/s AVG HW2,0% - FW0.99 3.8.2tune@566GH/s AVG HW1,4% (10min working)


Firmware v0.9.9 After 8 Days
lemonte
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November 25, 2013, 05:34:44 PM
 #23193

Anyone got a November tracking no besides the one mentioned in KNC Forums?

Not yet, thought mine would be today.
May I ask your order no? Mine is 70xx.

I don't have one. I am a reseller. I'm in no rush, nor complaining, just thought it would be today for some reason, hahaha. I am naturally quite an optimistic guy.


I've seen a few 7's that have received the notification today. Is anyone going to start a shipping thread on here like the Oct one?

Phoenix1969
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November 25, 2013, 05:35:30 PM
 #23194

The power line could be the problem indeed. As for PSU I'm using 2 X Enermax Maxrevo 1500W (gold), one powering the Jupiter, the other powering the 2 saturns. They have 4 12V rails available for PCI-e and I simply use one rail for each module.
My Jupiter runs just fine on 0.98.1 beta and it ran fine on 0.99 since release until today, when I found it running with all die #0 offline so i switched back to 0.98.1 beta. Just the 2 Saturns seems to have been affected. They still run "ok" with only die #0 offline on 0.98.
By the way, both PSU's are getting power from the same line.
yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...


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November 25, 2013, 05:36:30 PM
 #23195


Wow!  20nm AND early 2014!

That MUST be the "incoming news" announcement from 'orama.

Bingo!

...An interesting read regarding this announcement(albeit from 2012)...

http://www.altera.com/technology/system-design/articles/2012/20nm-systems-era.html
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November 25, 2013, 05:38:17 PM
 #23196



No details. Coming SoonTM

Wow!  20nm AND early 2014!

That MUST be the "incoming news" announcement from 'orama.

Bingo!

...An interesting read regarding this announcement(albeit from 2012)...

http://www.altera.com/technology/system-design/articles/2012/20nm-systems-era.html
Ours are made by Alchip & AST.....is that the same as altera?


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November 25, 2013, 05:39:19 PM
 #23197

O'rama, be nice: can you give us a hint of hashrate? What kind of ASIC will it be?

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November 25, 2013, 05:40:44 PM
 #23198

yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...

I think these 'spikes in hashrate' you see is just variance.  The chips run at a constant speed.

Variance does not cause your miner to draw more or less current.

Libertarians:  Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
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November 25, 2013, 05:43:42 PM
 #23199

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-68
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November 25, 2013, 05:44:22 PM
 #23200

Ours are made by Alchip.....is that the same as altera?

I do know our controller board has an Altera fpga on it... this article is more focused on 20nm in general.  

Also according to this article "Advanced Micro Devices said Thursday that it would tape out the first products to be manufactured using 14nm FinFET and 20nm planar process technologies in the coming quarters."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20131017231002_AMD_to_Tape_Out_First_20nm_14nm_FinFET_Chips_Within_Next_Two_Quarters.html

A quick summary is that even AMD has not yet taped out a 20nm product... and dont even plan on bringing any 20nm products to market in 2014.  This is big news once again if KnC can pull it off!!!
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