Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[MrPresident]

From what I've seen in here, you don't exactly make this thread pleasant at all.
It's funny how one of the top-most obnoxious posters in this thread should say that Searing "ruined this thread", he hasn't insulted anyone in here as far as I can see, but you seem to insult at least one person with damned near every post. Just sayin'.... Ignorance is bliss.
I don't even see how attacking everyone is relevant to the thread anyways, you have literally filled the thread with bullshit nonsense.
I'm surprised they haven't banned you yet... probably the entertainment value.

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[arlekyn13]

Will someone please explain both sides of this

It's smart to keep your Neptune order because:

You are all forgetting who you are dealing with. You are dealing with KnC, not Hashfast, cointerra, Avalon, VMC, etc

KnC were very fair to their October hosted customers.
1) they gave 5 BTC compensation for being about 7 days late
2) they extended the 6 months paid hosting by 1 month
3) they gave additional hashrate (worth about 9btc) for 2 months for hosted Jupiters

Now if you were to 3rd party colocate a Neptune, using about 2700kw power, you will be paying about $650/month plus another $400-600 for the 2 PSUs. Say 6 x 650 + 500 = $4400

The future (4-5 months from now when difficulty is over 20 billion) is centralized hashing in big datacentres with cheap electricity and cooling.

NO NO NO

KNC gave me 8 boards (my entire orders) with die #0 issue, 15 days delay (got my machines on Nov 1st) and a big middle finger as compensation. Amount invested in KNC Oct gear: BTC160. Amount mined so far: BTC60. A big portion of my loss is due because KNC sold to much hash power, thus killing the profitability of the machines. My fault for not taking that into account and believing in their so called "care for their customers"
It will be the same with the Neptunes, except the fact that the loss will be smaller due to machines being cheaper (btc wise - after all, we're miners, we should all calculate in BTC, not fiat).

Regarding the general hysteria about KNC's mega mining farm, well, they will most likely sell the hashing power. They chose to do it virtually from now on, instead of psychically deliver the miners. It's the same shit. I once said that if I were an ASIC producer, I'd sell even 1 million machines if I had the customers for them. WHY would I care about those machines profitability for their owners?!
For all those customers looking to buy new Jupiters and/or upgrade modules, you'll soon have the option to buy them, just not physically, but rather virtually, hosted in a data center.
Regarding the complaints about KNC building their farms with their (Neptune) customers money, it's a wrong assumption. They built it with PROFITS from Jupiter sales. It's KNC's profits, it's their money, they can do whatever they like with it.
So stop complaining about KNC (or any other ASIC producer) bringing huge amounts of hashing power to the network. You'd do the same if you could and complaining won't stop them from doing it. They will stop when there will be no more customers buying it and mining with their own gear will be no longer profitable.

[dropt]

Greed?
That's ridiculous. Cutting your losses is't greed, it's investment strategy. You may feel comfy with waiting until the end of July for 3 TH/s, but some of us don't. I have no idea how you get "greed" out of a customer deciding he would take 3Th/s now, over 3Th/s later. Any other decision would be utter stupidity IMHO. Seems to me, if Neptune is going to be later than expected, than you really have two choices... 1. Take the cloud-hashing offer when it comes.  or 2......   Don't.  You will, and you know it. If you decide not to, I'll shoot you my btc address, just have them send it to me, lol...  Then you can take over when your precious machine arrives. The whole premise of refusing a cloud-hashing offer over waiting 3 to 4 more months for a Neptune doesn't sound like you have 3 marbles left to rattle upstairs...
I think it was VERY thoughtful and skill-ful of KNC to cover our asses with cloudhosting, VERY.

I don't normally give new user accounts who beeline to threads like this in efforts of espousing their wisdom the time of day, but for you an exception.

Cutting your losses is't greed, it's investment strategy.

   What losses are these exactly?  What delivery date were you told that you're now hinging this whole cloud-hashing thing as your knight in shining armour? If you honestly think you're in "losses" territory and this is your only hope at salvation you should just get a refund.  "Investment strategy"... as if you had this all planned out before hand. This shit was just dropped in your lap so spare us the alleged intelligence of your investment.

The whole premise of refusing a cloud-hashing offer over waiting 3 to 4 more months for a Neptune

More assumptions to back up your rant?  Where again were these dates posted?  The one where you concluding you're going to receive 3 or 4 moths of "sorry we suck guys" mining?

While you sit here dreaming up how glorious this whole deal is you apparently haven't spent one second to consider the big picture.  You're giving the okay to KnC to setup the largest private mine in existence and the exclusive rental (and control) of your hash power.  How are you going to feel when they give you 1 week of free mining, then say: "oh, here's your neptune... btw we added 11PH of our own equipment so that 3TH is now as good as 1.5TH."   How much do you trust KnC not to drive this whole thing into the ground since not only are you funding their mine, you're voluntarily giving them complete access to and control of your hardware.  They could hardly keep their word regarding the module sales, and god only knows if they actually kept their private farm under 5%.

You're acting like all of the poor suckers over in the HF thread with their August wide-eyes at dreams of low power consumption and a miner protection package offering up to four times the hashpower if HF screws up!!  Wow, sounds great in theory, why don't you go over there and see how sweet that deal is looking today.  How certain are you that this isn't some ploy to try and stem the flow of people asking for refunds on their Neptunes?

[krampus]

A big portion of my loss is due because KNC sold to much hash power, thus killing the profitability of the machines.

Just quoting this for the awesome chutzpah. It's okay that they sold you lots of hashing power, but when they sell it to someone else, they've crossed the line.

Well, at least you're honest.

[arlekyn13]

A big portion of my loss is due because KNC sold to much hash power, thus killing the profitability of the machines.

Just quoting this for the awesome chutzpah. It's okay that they sold you lots of hashing power, but when they sell it to someone else, they've crossed the line.

Well, at least you're honest.

And I admitted I was wrong when i believed they will restrain from selling to much hash power so their customers will have a chance for profit. Quoting myself: "My fault for not taking that into account and believing in their so called "care for their customers"". Wrong assumption at that time from myself!

[baller1]

is this already knc?
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

after your post (?)
the hashrate has been redirected/turned off

Code:

12 hours	544.49 Th/s	5476655520
3 hours	521.28 Th/s	1310795508
22.5 minutes	289.21 Th/s	90904888
256 seconds	0.00 kh/s	0
128 seconds	0.00 kh/s	0

wow..nice one

Co incidents?

I don't know if this is KNC playing around with their hoards of 28nm boxes.. but someone is throwing 1000 Ths at Eligius and then it's gone, and now it's back... unless Eligius is acting weird.. The problem I have is everytime these huge throws of Th/s fluctuations seem to be causing my hashrate to go bonky. Overloading the servers or?. Keep it on, or rather.. off. thanks KNC.

[2tights]

Who has gotten their refund?

If I were to want to jump ship, what are my options? I read somewhere that you aren't allowed to sell your pre order.

[bizzyb]

I've had one refunded, one on order.  That's the easy "get out" anyone can take.
I still don't have an issue with how things are progressing, and my lack of posting doesn't reflect my experience or understanding of things.
They are simply making the best commercial decisions.  If you want charity, donate at the link in my sig.
If you want a capitalist free market economy and private enterprise making the best commercial decisions for success.....

[corrow]

So, you guys wouldn't take 3Th/s of hosted cloud-hashing say, next month, as opposed to waiting until the end of Q2 for a physical Neptune?  I would, in a heartbeat. Everyone wins that way. It would definitely work in everyone's favor considering the alternatives.

Yes, great plan.  Let's put near complete control of 20PH of hardware into KnC's hands.  The brilliance from your greed is impressive.

Greed?
That's ridiculous. Cutting your losses is't greed, it's investment strategy. You may feel comfy with waiting until the end of July for 3 TH/s, but some of us don't. I have no idea how you get "greed" out of a customer deciding he would take 3Th/s now, over 3Th/s later. Any other decision would be utter stupidity IMHO. Seems to me, if Neptune is going to be later than expected, than you really have two choices... 1. Take the cloud-hashing offer when it comes.  or 2......   Don't.  You will, and you know it. If you decide not to, I'll shoot you my btc address, just have them send it to me, lol...  Then you can take over when your precious machine arrives. The whole premise of refusing a cloud-hashing offer over waiting 3 to 4 more months for a Neptune doesn't sound like you have 3 marbles left to rattle upstairs...
I think it was VERY thoughtful and skill-ful of KNC to cover our asses with cloudhosting, VERY.

Well still It is bad if "Plan B" was initially their intended plan. And not deliver Neptunes in the first place as they made us to believe. Knc is not stupid, they kept us sweet with a really nice alternative BackUp plan, which will not hurt customers in the sense "you-get-what-you-have-paid-for". Exept for the fact they now are first making the biggest mining farm in the world, this undermines their philosophy in the first place. Customer are important, they need to buy mining equipement again. So give than also the possibility to ROI. With this plan they are fucked for sure!!!!

With this news they do not have the favour in being honest business, they put their customers in jeopardy to benefit from It themselves!!!! All wrong!!!! Bad, bad, bad, bad KnC.....

[elasticband]

Tuesday morning and that evil company KnC are allowing me RMA two boards today. Oh no these people are the devil, I wonder if I get a 48hr turn around this time, witch craft I tell you......  madness

[OmegaCentauri]

Tuesday morning and that evil company KnC are allowing me RMA two boards today. Oh no these people are the devil, I wonder if I get a 48hr turn around this time, witch craft I tell you......  madness

Oh, really? And on what grounds are you being granted an RMA? Dead dies? Apparently a 30% loss in hashing power (dead dies) from one of their modules doesn't warrant an RMA and I'm told to "wait for the Nov Jup tuning suite" which has been promised for months.

[elasticband]

After these two boards I will have sent 4 boards back for RMA in the space of a month. these are October's though.

GREAT SERVICE

[de_ixie]

Interestingly... in all other competitor threads "KnC Plan B" is considered as a step towards customer appreciation... in the KnC thread itself people tear it apart... how I love this ambiguity 

[Nemo1024]

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...

[Tigggger]

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...

I think you are reading it wrong.

They are building the data centre shortly with their 28nm products. That data centre will be raise the difficulty dramatically and reduce your current income (and the future income of the neptune).

Once it gets to July 1st, the first day they will be 'late' THEN you get access to your 3TH of hosted mining, BUT at that point it will probably be making 0.01 BTC per day and any chance of an ROI will be gone.

[MrPresident]

Will someone please explain both sides of this

It's smart to keep your Neptune order because:

You are all forgetting who you are dealing with. You are dealing with KnC, not Hashfast, cointerra, Avalon, VMC, etc

KnC were very fair to their October hosted customers.
1) they gave 5 BTC compensation for being about 7 days late
2) they extended the 6 months paid hosting by 1 month
3) they gave additional hashrate (worth about 9btc) for 2 months for hosted Jupiters

Now if you were to 3rd party colocate a Neptune, using about 2700kw power, you will be paying about $650/month plus another $400-600 for the 2 PSUs. Say 6 x 650 + 500 = $4400

The future (4-5 months from now when difficulty is over 20 billion) is centralized hashing in big datacentres with cheap electricity and cooling.

NO NO NO

KNC gave me 8 boards (my entire orders) with die #0 issue, 15 days delay (got my machines on Nov 1st) and a big middle finger as compensation. Amount invested in KNC Oct gear: BTC160. Amount mined so far: BTC60. A big portion of my loss is due because KNC sold to much hash power, thus killing the profitability of the machines. My fault for not taking that into account and believing in their so called "care for their customers"
It will be the same with the Neptunes, except the fact that the loss will be smaller due to machines being cheaper (btc wise - after all, we're miners, we should all calculate in BTC, not fiat).

Regarding the general hysteria about KNC's mega mining farm, well, they will most likely sell the hashing power. They chose to do it virtually from now on, instead of psychically deliver the miners. It's the same shit. I once said that if I were an ASIC producer, I'd sell even 1 million machines if I had the customers for them. WHY would I care about those machines profitability for their owners?!
For all those customers looking to buy new Jupiters and/or upgrade modules, you'll soon have the option to buy them, just not physically, but rather virtually, hosted in a data center.
Regarding the complaints about KNC building their farms with their (Neptune) customers money, it's a wrong assumption. They built it with PROFITS from Jupiter sales. It's KNC's profits, it's their money, they can do whatever they like with it.
So stop complaining about KNC (or any other ASIC producer) bringing huge amounts of hashing power to the network. You'd do the same if you could and complaining won't stop them from doing it. They will stop when there will be no more customers buying it and mining with their own gear will be no longer profitable.

How did that happen?  June 3rd, when they first became available, the btc price was $130, while the Jupiter was $7,000, so your 2 jupiters should have costed around 107 btc, not 160.  Please clarify, because your numbers just don't jive.

[Searing]

I'm in full conspiracy mode now, lol.  I haven't seen anyone mention this very likely possibility yet...

20nm will never be developed by KNC.

Why?  Because if KNC never has to deliver a working Neptune to your door (c'mon aren't we all thinking we'll never see a real Neptune in person, right?)  Then what incentive do they have to build the new product when the 28nm Jupiters will do the hosted mining job perfectly fine with ultra cheap electricity.

We might see photos of datacenters filled with "our" Neptunes hashing away.  Shhhh, they'll just be Super-Jupiters in newly designed boxes.   But we will never have direct control of our individual boxes, just some vague, generic hashrate that we may have minimal control over.  So we'll never no for sure what KNC is hashing with.



Bookmark this post.  I want full credit when the conspiracy is exposed.  

if your conspiracy is correct it will be built...they can do a lot for their farm with 20mm......just saying if you are correct more incentive to build the next gen for your large farm

[Biffa]

Fair enough! It's much more fun than betting.

More fun, yes.  But more profitable, probably not anymore.  My pile of gear is going to have to amuse me without growing larger now.  It was fun while it lasted.  

Just increase your farm by 20% every two weeks

[Searing]

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced it will come true.  Someone please convince me that I'm crazy and I'll book an appointment for a shrink right now!

You're crazy lol. They'll be produced and will ship.

I said 3 months ago KNC is shifting to industrial/co-lo only stuff, and this is their major step toward that effort. This is likely the last year KNC ships to individuals.

I've always thought this...but if figured it would be after Neptune generation and happen end of fall 2014.....

but yet again bitcoin difficulty and such equip coming out it is faster and faster so now it is spring

I think it likely knc wanted to do the farm with 20mm from the get go...but looking at all the hash and difficulty rising punted back to 28mm with the hash plan for neptunes if they don't get them out in time


likely the way knc gets stuff out at the last min they will ship the Neptune on hand in time..heh...and give you the option to host ...man that would really shake up the bitcoin mining world..here is your equp with these other hosting choices with difficulty increasing.....be just like them to give us neptunes in middle of march..the fiends..heh

anyway..things are slipping fast diff rate wise with btc....they can see it coming as well as the rest of us...so yeah commercial looks like the way it will go in mining from the summer on imho

Searing

[Nemo1024]

So, if I read the news correctly, I can either start receiving my 3 GH/s share from the data centre operations right away (as soon as it's officially operational), or to wait for the Neptune to get developed and have it hosted at the aforementioned data centre? Correct?

Sound like a good option to me. I have a rig hosted with them now, and it's been operational 24/7 since it went on-line. So I am happy with their handling of the hosting. When I bought Neptune, it was at the limit of my power and, not least, cooling abilities at home, so I was actually asking KnC if they would provide hosting for Neptunes. It seems they listened.

Currently, I don't see any downside...

I think you are reading it wrong.

They are building the data centre shortly with their 28nm products. That data centre will be raise the difficulty dramatically and reduce your current income (and the future income of the neptune).

Once it gets to July 1st, the first day they will be 'late' THEN you get access to your 3TH of hosted mining, BUT at that point it will probably be making 0.01 BTC per day and any chance of an ROI will be gone.

They don't mention July the 1st in the newsletter:

Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 
In the addition to this commitment, as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package where we will simply fill your wallets directly and you won’t have to worry about anything else. All the other costs taken care of by us. We are able to do this by using our 28nm chips which is why all products that we have coming out of our factory in the next few months will go into building and supplying the Plan B facility.