MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[macsga]

i totally disagree with you because since there is:
[...]
EDIT: the further reading link is part of the past... and we all know what happened....
What we need is news on what is happening NOW

Pretty much nothing, the way I see it. And nobody's seems to be in hurry from the Japan investigator's part.

[bitcoinvest]

we all remember www.mtgoxprotest.com - Kolin Burges...

it's been days now when you visit the website:

Not Found

The requested URL / was not found on this server.

and months of silence...

someone here replied me once that he personaly knows Kolin.

Can we have a comment on that? Did Mark gave him his BTC and now left???



i have twitted to Kolin just now and wait for the answer


EDIT: i twitted Oct 12 to Kolin. After 3 days on Oct 15 Kolin twitted back this: Hi, it's a technical problem, it will be back up once it's sorted out.

You can see here. https://twitter.com/The_K_meister/status/507403603712016384

[joesmoe2012]

we all remember www.mtgoxprotest.com - Kolin Burges...

it's been days now when you visit the website:

Not Found

The requested URL / was not found on this server.

and months of silence...

someone here replied me once that he personaly knows Kolin.

Can we have a comment on that? Did Mark gave him his BTC and now left???



i have twitted to Kolin just now and wait for the answer

Also curious on this.

[bitcoinvest]

I have edited my previous message about www.mtgoxprotest.com and wanted also to inform about no reply also from savegox.com ......

of course same on mtgoxrecovery.com

I'm curious to see if any changes after recover of mtgoxprotest.com

Guys please wake up.... some people as we talk, sleep, walk or do anything else are having fun with our BTC!!!
Post what you know please!

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mtgox.com


After 8 Months still not accessible any date of February or any day of announcements in home page from Mark.

Is there a troll here.... i'm sorry i wanted to say a genius ....  here to tell us why?  because I have send i think 4 or 5 emails during those months to Internet Archive -----> Email: info at archive dot org - (Please note to enable email from @archive.org if you use any filtering devices!)


and not a single reply ....

[TheFootMan]

I have edited my previous message about www.mtgoxprotest.com and wanted also to inform about no reply also from savegox.com ......

of course same on mtgoxrecovery.com

I'm curious to see if any changes after recover of mtgoxprotest.com

Guys please wake up.... some people as we talk, sleep, walk or do anything else are having fun with our BTC!!!
Post what you know please!

https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mtgox.com


After 8 Months still not accessible any date of February or any day of announcements in home page from Mark.

Is there a troll here.... i'm sorry i wanted to say a genius ....  here to tell us why?  because I have send i think 4 or 5 emails during those months to Internet Archive -----> Email: info at archive dot org - (Please note to enable email from @archive.org if you use any filtering devices!)


and not a single reply ....

From what I understand, the internet archive will remove anything when asked to do so, esp. if they think you're the siteadmin and wants them to remove cached versions of your site.

[ilpirata79]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

[bitcoinvest]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

do you have an answer ? because we all want answers and nobody gives a sh*it on us

[JorgeStolfi]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

They are still figuring out how many bitcoins and dollar there are; they have hired some TI consultants to analyze the database and other files.  Then they have to figure out what clients can claim. (It need not be the final account balance; my guess is that it will be some other formula.)  Then clients will have to send forms specifying their claims; this step has been postponed to the next year.  Then they will have to validate the claims.  Meanwhile, they may have to auction the bitcoins.

There is an investigation going on by the Japanese police about a certan amount of bitcoins that the liquidator thinks are missing.  It may not be all the 600'000; IIRC it was some particular 20'000 or so.  Do no expect any more details or information about that until the investigation is complete; that is normal in criminal investigations.

Then there is Sunlot, lobbying hard behind the scenes to stop the liquidation, call off the police investigation, and take possession of the 200'000 remaining bitcoins, "for the good of the clients".

I gather that there are some help sites and client groups, but it is not clear whether they are really trying to inform and help clients, or are trying to obfuscate and convince them to accept the plans of Sunlot or other sharks.  Beware.

You had your coins stolen.  You should count them as gone.  If the liquidation is not derailed, one day you will get back about 20% of what you lost.  Then you should count that as a lucky windfall.   Unfortunately, that is how it works when companies go bankrupt.

[DrApricot]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

I gather that there are some help sites and client groups, but it is not clear whether they are really trying to inform and help clients, or are trying to obfuscate and convince them to accept the plans of Sunlot or other sharks.  Beware.

I'm not sure why you believe liquidation is the only possible worthwhile outcome to the Mt Gox affair. There is nothing wrong with the concept of a negotiated out-of-court settlement of the bankruptcy. It could even result in an early release of most, if not all, of the depositors' bitcoins.
 
It seems that you are trying to warn people away from self help groups, and implying that anyone who joins one of these will fall into the clutches of Sunlot or their ilk. People will only stand so much frustration, and can't be blamed for trying to look out for what they see as their best interests. That's not the same thing as being used as a pawn in someone else's game--merely life.

You had your coins stolen.  You should count them as gone.  If the liquidation is not derailed, one day you will get back about 20% of what you lost.  Then you should count that as a lucky windfall.   Unfortunately, that is how it works when companies go bankrupt.

Jeffrey Robinson has a new Amazon Kindle book out entitled: The Naked Truth About Bitcoin
http://www.amazon.com/BitCon-Naked-Truth-About-Bitcoin-ebook/dp/B00NUIUQ3A/r
According to a recent review of the book:

Robinson's aim is to make a connection between Mt Gox collapsing and the abrupt end of China's bitcoin fever, the latter having driven the price up to $1240, until Beijing cracked down and the price crashed. Around the same time (coincidentally) Mt Gox collapsed; Robinson's terrier-like financial crime super-sense is on high alert. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcon-naked-truth-about-bitcoin-jeffrey-robinsons-teardown-worlds-biggest-cryptocurrency-1470477

If Jeffrey Robinson is correct about Chinese involvement in the Mt. Gox collapse, then depositors may have become pawns in a sub rosa diplomatic "blame game." That's only one more possible reason why they should be as assertive as possible in representing their own interests.

[ilpirata79]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

You had your coins stolen.  You should count them as gone.  If the liquidation is not derailed, one day you will get back about 20% of what you lost.  Then you should count that as a lucky windfall.   Unfortunately, that is how it works when companies go bankrupt.

20%?? Where do I have to sign?

[JorgeStolfi]

It seems that you are trying to warn people away from self help groups, and implying that anyone who joins one of these will fall into the clutches of Sunlot or their ilk. People will only stand so much frustration, and can't be blamed for trying to look out for what they see as their best interests. That's not the same thing as being used as a pawn in someone else's game--merely life.

I am merely warning people to be wary.  Not everyone who claims to be your friend is really your friend.  Scammers, almost by defintion, are pretty good at convincing people that they are honest.  Bitcoiners should have learned that by now.

Out-of-court settlement will not make the missing bitcoins appear, so the former clients will not get more than 20% of their losses, in any case.  Judicial liquidation may take another year or more, but it WILL return most of the remaining assets to the clients.  The liquidation court has powers that a Sunlot-like takeover will not have, such as seizing the assets of former management and eventual accomplices, subpoena documents and bank histories, etc..  Moreover, it can be expected to do so.  In contrast, Sunlot has already "pardoned" McCaleb and Gay-Bouchery, and will let them keep what they got from MtGOX.  AFAIK, Sunlot never said what they will do about Mark. 

I could just say "heck, it is your money, if you want to give it to Sunlot, your problem."  Except that it is not in anyone's interest to let crooks who stole 500 million dollars walk away free and carrying all the loot with them.   The world will be even less safe than it is, if those bandits are not caught and sent to jail.  Unfortunately, to me, that will be the likely outcome of a Sunlot takeover.

[DrApricot]

It seems that you are trying to warn people away from self help groups, and implying that anyone who joins one of these will fall into the clutches of Sunlot or their ilk. People will only stand so much frustration, and can't be blamed for trying to look out for what they see as their best interests. That's not the same thing as being used as a pawn in someone else's game--merely life.

I am merely warning people to be wary.  Not everyone who claims to be your friend is really your friend.  

Fair enough, one should be careful, yet that doesn't mean remaining patient through an untenable situation. There is such a thing as the time value of money. Money in the short term is worth more than money promised at some future date. Many people would probably trade-off having the authorities prosecute every supposed Mt. Gox bad guy to the nth degree in exchange for having their bitcoins back in some near-term fashion.

Out-of-court settlement will not make the missing bitcoins appear, so the former clients will not get more than 20% of their losses, in any case.  

What evidence do you have that there were ever more than the 200,000 bitcoins found in the "old-format wallet"? Earlier in the year, these bitcoins were worth in excess of $100 million. That's a very large cash hoard for a 3 year old company run by a 28 year old. It stretches credulity to believe Mt. Gox actually controlled $500 million in bitcoins that have been claimed. Nobody has demonstrated that those coins totalling to the larger sum ever even existed. More than likely, it is just another wild claim.

Judicial liquidation may take another year or more, but it WILL return most of the remaining assets to the clients.  The liquidation court has powers that a Sunlot-like takeover will not have, such as seizing the assets of former management and eventual accomplices, subpoena documents and bank histories, etc..  Moreover, it can be expected to do so.  In contrast, Sunlot has already "pardoned" McCaleb and Gay-Bouchery, and will let them keep what they got from MtGOX.  AFAIK, Sunlot never said what they will do about Mark.  

I could just say "heck, it is your money, if you want to give it to Sunlot, your problem."  Except that it is not in anyone's interest to let crooks who stole 500 million dollars walk away free and carrying all the loot with them.   The world will be even less safe than it is, if those bandits are not caught and sent to jail.  Unfortunately, to me, that will be the likely outcome of a Sunlot takeover.

I don't see what the Sunlot takeover has to do with an out-or-court settlement. When depositors and creditors work out a settlement, it could return all of the depositors' bitcoins from the 200,000 BTC stash, and there would be no need to convert to Japanese Yen. This is something completely different than Sunlot. While representing a compromise of interests, it would be a good one--essentially a win-win for everyone. Proceeding with the liquidation seems more like "delay-delay" and "lose-lose". Out-of-court settlements when they can be obtained are generally far superior in outcome to proceeding on with a bankruptcy liquidation. It will require creditors and depositors to come to some kind of agreement based upon mutual interests.

[JorgeStolfi]

What evidence do you have that there were ever more than the 200,000 bitcoins found in the "old-format wallet"? Earlier in the year, these bitcoins were worth in excess of $100 million. That's a very large cash hoard for a 3 year old company run by a 28 year old. It stretches credulity to believe Mt. Gox actually controlled $500 million in bitcoins that has been claimed. Nobody has demonstrated that those coins totalling to the larger sum ever even existed. More than likely, it is just another wild claim.

The ~800'000 BTC figure is the sum of all BTC balances in client accounts.

If the exchange had been operating as it should, that number should be the sum of all BTC deposits by clients, minus all BTC withdrawals by clients and the fees withdrawn by Mark & co.  So those bitcoins would have to be "real".

If those bitcoins did not really exist, there must be inconsistencies in the records, like bitcoins being credited to client accounts without  corresponding BTC deposits, or BTC withdrawals without debiting the client account.  Mark claimed that the latter was the case: the "malelability bug" tricked his scripts into doing precisely that.  But people who understand the "bug" say that it could not have leaked more than a few hundred BTC.  And Mark has been silent after that first "explanation".  

I don't see what the Sunlot takeover has to do with an out-or-court settlement. When depositors and creditors work out a settlement, it could return all of the depositors' bitcoins from the 200,000 BTC stash, and there would be no need to convert to Japanese Yen. This is something completely different than Sunlot. While representing a compromise of interests, it would be a good one--essentially a win-win for everyone. Proceeding with the liquidation seems more like "delay-delay" and "lose-lose". Out-of-court settlements when they can be obtained are generally far superior in outcome to proceeding on with a bankruptcy liquidation. It will require creditors and depositors to come to some kind of agreement based upon mutual interests.

The first thing that a self-help group should do is to hire a lawer who knows Japanese bankruptcy law.  Without expert advice, the group will be just a version of this thread: clients will waste time discussing what they would like to happen (like "return the BTC as BTC") without regard for whether it is legally possible or not.

[DrApricot]

What evidence do you have that there were ever more than the 200,000 bitcoins found in the "old-format wallet"? Earlier in the year, these bitcoins were worth in excess of $100 million. That's a very large cash hoard for a 3 year old company run by a 28 year old. It stretches credulity to believe Mt. Gox actually controlled $500 million in bitcoins that has been claimed. Nobody has demonstrated that those coins totalling to the larger sum ever even existed. More than likely, it is just another wild claim.

The ~800'000 BTC figure is the sum of all BTC balances in client accounts.

I know about the leaked database, but it was incomplete and missing a lot of data. What backs up this 800,000 number? No depositors have been allowed to look at these books to be sure that this number is even in the ball park. The $500 million or 800,000 BTC sounds way out of line for an exchange like Mt. Gox. 200,000 BTC sounds a lot more realistic.

If the exchange had been operating as it should, that number should be the sum of all BTC deposits by clients, minus all BTC withdrawals by clients and the fees withdrawn by Mark & co.  So those bitcoins would have to be "real".

If those bitcoins did not really exist, there must be inconsistencies in the records, like bitcoins being credited to client accounts without  corresponding BTC deposits, or BTC withdrawals without debiting the client account.  Mark claimed that the latter was the case: the "malelability bug" tricked his scripts into doing precisely that.  But people who understand the "bug" say that it could not have leaked more than a few hundred BTC.  And Mark has been silent after that first "explanation".

Given their obvious exaggerations about losses from transaction malleability, all of the company's statements should be regarded as highly suspect, especially the one that it once held 850K bitcoins.

I don't see what the Sunlot takeover has to do with an out-or-court settlement. When depositors and creditors work out a settlement, it could return all of the depositors' bitcoins from the 200,000 BTC stash, and there would be no need to convert to Japanese Yen. This is something completely different than Sunlot. While representing a compromise of interests, it would be a good one--essentially a win-win for everyone. Proceeding with the liquidation seems more like "delay-delay" and "lose-lose". Out-of-court settlements when they can be obtained are generally far superior in outcome to proceeding on with a bankruptcy liquidation. It will require creditors and depositors to come to some kind of agreement based upon mutual interests.

The first thing that a self-help group should do is to hire a lawer who knows Japanese bankruptcy law.  Without expert advice, the group will be just a version of this thread: clients will waste time discussing what they would like to happen (like "return the BTC as BTC") without regard for whether it is legally possible or not.

Agreed, all in due time.

[bitcoinaarush]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

You had your coins stolen.  You should count them as gone.  If the liquidation is not derailed, one day you will get back about 20% of what you lost.  Then you should count that as a lucky windfall.   Unfortunately, that is how it works when companies go bankrupt.

20%?? Where do I have to sign?

Is that true? How can I get back my 20%?

[bitcoinvest]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

You had your coins stolen.  You should count them as gone.  If the liquidation is not derailed, one day you will get back about 20% of what you lost.  Then you should count that as a lucky windfall.   Unfortunately, that is how it works when companies go bankrupt.

20%?? Where do I have to sign?

Is that true? How can I get back my 20%?

why don't you just read??? the proof of claims form will be available at www.mtgox.com

When they update us for this i'm sure you will know it.... we all wait for that!

But let me ask you all here something.

Mark knows 5-6 programming languages right? Have you seen the documentary movie "THE RISE & RISE of BITCOIN"  if no do it ASAP!
Please pay attention how they entered the server room, he went personaly in and forced them to close the cameras and allowed only part of the room to be record - photo. To me this does not show a 28 year old guy that does not know what he is doing....
After you see the movie please answer me on that: do you think BTC left his "building" from a bug or theft??? ?

[smoothie]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

You had your coins stolen.  You should count them as gone.  If the liquidation is not derailed, one day you will get back about 20% of what you lost.  Then you should count that as a lucky windfall.   Unfortunately, that is how it works when companies go bankrupt.

20%?? Where do I have to sign?

Is that true? How can I get back my 20%?

why don't you just read??? the proof of claims form will be available at www.mtgox.com

When they update us for this i'm sure you will know it.... we all wait for that!

But let me ask you all here something.

Mark knows 5-6 programming languages right? Have you seen the documentary movie "THE RISE & RISE of BITCOIN"  if no do it ASAP!
Please pay attention how they entered the server room, he went personaly in and forced them to close the cameras and allowed only part of the room to be record - photo. To me this does not show a 28 year old guy that does not know what he is doing....
After you see the movie please answer me on that: do you think BTC left his "building" from a bug or theft??? ?

What is your point? Seems like you are all over the place when talking about mark and the "theft" or "bug".

I watched the documentary and all I see is a scammer.

[macsga]

What is your point? Seems like you are all over the place when talking about mark and the "theft" or "bug".

I watched the documentary and all I see is a scammer.

Not a conspiracy theorist here, but to my understanding he (bitcoinvest) has a point. Watched the documentary too and all I saw was a perfectly settled up company and a rather cautious CEO. Something here does not fit. This can't prove anything though. Nor it can argue with the fact that his company is responsible for all the losses.

I'd carefully watch for MtGox news in the future. Something tells me that we're not done with MK or his company yet.

[bitcoinvest]

What the fuck is the tribunal doing?
Couldn't they just split the remaining bitcoins and give them to us?
What's the point of waiting?

You had your coins stolen.  You should count them as gone.  If the liquidation is not derailed, one day you will get back about 20% of what you lost.  Then you should count that as a lucky windfall.   Unfortunately, that is how it works when companies go bankrupt.

20%?? Where do I have to sign?

Is that true? How can I get back my 20%?

why don't you just read??? the proof of claims form will be available at www.mtgox.com

When they update us for this i'm sure you will know it.... we all wait for that!

But let me ask you all here something.

Mark knows 5-6 programming languages right? Have you seen the documentary movie "THE RISE & RISE of BITCOIN"  if no do it ASAP!
Please pay attention how they entered the server room, he went personaly in and forced them to close the cameras and allowed only part of the room to be record - photo. To me this does not show a 28 year old guy that does not know what he is doing....
After you see the movie please answer me on that: do you think BTC left his "building" from a bug or theft??? ?

What is your point? Seems like you are all over the place when talking about mark and the "theft" or "bug".

I watched the documentary and all I see is a scammer.

it's not the first time that i say i lost 99% of my btc on mtgox.com.

So the last thing would be to say, theft or bug?  all i know at the end of the day is that Mark owns me my BTC - MtGox.com

So i'm not supporting anyone. But people.. some parts (like macsga added) do not match! you can't be Sumacher for example and forget your Formula 1 car when going to race.. ( by the way i hope that he is doing fine and will see him soon) .

[bitcoinvest]

just to mention that i went just now to mtgoxprotest.com and working again.



any news about our btc?? up to now also i see bitcoins.com has not sold