Bitcoin Forum
December 06, 2016, 02:18:59 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 ... 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 [311] 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 ... 744 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2031589 times)
baloo_kiev
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


View Profile
July 22, 2013, 12:51:32 AM
 #6201


    Now consider the rule defined by those 3 lines I was talking about. It states "If a share (S) is based on stale block, mine on its parent (P)." (That's what "Punishing for block-stale / Jumping to ..." log message is about.) If a miner (either intentionally or because of slow bitcoind) disrespects this rule, not only he loses nothing, but may also eventually profit from it! Really, his share A (a child of block-stale share S, which is punished by the rest of the network) is 1 share ahead of "proper" miner's share B, which is P's child. As a result, A will have priority over B even if B is found earlier!

    Should I report a bug on GitHub?

    You should. But read below why I think it's not high priority.

    2 cases in your example:
    • local bitcoind lagging: miner is punished most of the time so it is prevented to benefit from worthless work as intended and is motivated to upgrade his/her configuration
    • node trying to make his share more resilient by avoiding to build on the parent share

    In the "more resilient attack" the node can only attack after one out of 20 shares (30s share interval with 10mn block interval) if and only if it is from a slow node producing a stale share

    A node does not have to be slow to produce a block-stale share. Any non-block-stale share will become block-stale after a new block.

    Quote
    (assuming we don't have nodes more than 30-60s behind the Bitcoin network able to make 2 successive stale shares).

    With high-hashrate nodes it gets even worse because any node doesn't punish own block-stales:
    [/list]
    Code:
        if (self.header['previous_block'], self.header['bits']) != (previous_block, bits) and self.header_hash != previous_block and self.peer_addr is not None:
            return True, 'Block-stale detected! %x < %x' % (self.header['previous_block'], previous_block)
      So a massive node doesn't even have to be slow to orphan other's shares.

    Quote
    • if another node finds a share before him he will automatically switch to it as building on either fork doesn't give him any benefit anymore
    With 10% global stales, which corresponds to about 3s effective latency on average, he has those 3s or even more to send his share to other peers before he receives and processes that other's share. Once sent to any, even just 1 peer, his share will definitely orphan the "proper" one.

    Quote
    • if he finds a share before the rest of the network, he won't have gained anything (he has as much chances of that happening when mining on the parent share)
    • the only gain is when he finds a share that collides with another : there he will be sure to win instead of having ~50% chances
    .

    So someone trying this attack will get benefit for less than 5% (1 in 20 at most, probably far less) of his expected DOA+Orphan rate (which seems to be ~10% since we switched to a 30s share interval) and this benefit will be ~50%.

    If he has high latency, both your estimates are wrong. Someone may have even 20% stales and sure to win instead of having ~10% chances. In this case, his expected benefit is...

    Quote
    So in the most pathological case where 100% of the network produces stale shares (built with the previous block), the expected benefit is only 50% of 10% of 5% : 0.25%.

    90% of 20% of 5% = 0.9%

    Quote
    Most nodes probably don't produce stale shares, so this is more likely a ~0.1% advantage.

    As I stated before, every node produces block-stale shares, because a good share becomes a block-stale after block switch.

    Quote
    Now what is the attacker losing? If you don't punish slow nodes you are hurting yourself as much as the rest of the network by validating wasted work. The exception is the slow node which is grateful to be paid for worthless work.
    For every gained share you are validating one worthless share. If everyone did this, everyone would lose money to worthless shares producers instead of gaining 0.1%. Now it's too late for me to try to estimate how much is lost but disabling the protection might not be a good idea, especially if many are doing it. It probably would end in a "tragedy of the commons": you can gain a bit by doing it, but when everyone does it, everyone loses.

    Again, most punished shares are good shares turned block-stale by a new block. That means with hash < block target, they would have been a valid block at the time they were found.

    Quote
    Allowing worthless work allows it to rise without limits: if there are very slow bitcoinds with very high hashrate they could make 2 or more consecutive stale shares a frequent occasion and rise the worthless hashrate to 10 or more percent of the whole pool.

    One solution might be to ignore stale shares when comparing the different sharechain forks. People disabling the protection would get no benefit at all.

    Exactly! Jumping to a fork with same height but less block-stales is right. Jumping to the parent is nonsense.

    Disabling this jumping is essential not only for slow nodes. Look, while a new bitcoin block is propagated by the network, some p2pool nodes receive it earlier, some later. At this time, it's better for anyone to be safe and work on the last share instead of its parent.

    Quote
    In the meanwhile, advocating to remove the protection is an attack on P2Pool, please stop doing it unless you want to participate in your own reduced income.

    I haven't removed the punishing itself but only disabled jumping to parent share. When comparing two forks, it's still active.
    And people here complain that they have their good shares orphaned all the time by this mechanism. Why should they have reduced income because someone else (with much higher hashrate) doesn't care about tuning his node?

    PGP: 6EC48BA7
    Welcome to my p2pool: BTC
    1481033939
    Hero Member
    *
    Offline Offline

    Posts: 1481033939

    View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

    Ignore
    1481033939
    Reply with quote  #2

    1481033939
    Report to moderator
    1481033939
    Hero Member
    *
    Offline Offline

    Posts: 1481033939

    View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

    Ignore
    1481033939
    Reply with quote  #2

    1481033939
    Report to moderator
    Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
    1481033939
    Hero Member
    *
    Offline Offline

    Posts: 1481033939

    View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

    Ignore
    1481033939
    Reply with quote  #2

    1481033939
    Report to moderator
    1481033939
    Hero Member
    *
    Offline Offline

    Posts: 1481033939

    View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

    Ignore
    1481033939
    Reply with quote  #2

    1481033939
    Report to moderator
    freshzive
    Sr. Member
    ****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 447


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 02:49:59 AM
     #6202

    When is this round going to end Sad

    daemondazz
    Sr. Member
    ****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 280



    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 03:56:16 AM
     #6203

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

    Computers, Amateur Radio, Electronics, Aviation - 1dazzrAbMqNu6cUwh2dtYckNygG7jKs8S
    elebit
    Sr. Member
    ****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 390


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 10:45:33 AM
     #6204

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

    That's the thing with randomness. You never know. Bad luck will follow bad luck precisely as often as good luck will.

    But one can always hope  Wink
    agath
    Full Member
    ***
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 163


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 10:59:54 AM
     #6205

    But one can always hope  Wink

    Hope is useless, so relaxen und watschen der blinkenlichten.
    PatMan
    Hero Member
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 924


    Watch out for the "Neg-Rep-Dogie-Police".....


    View Profile WWW
    July 23, 2013, 12:03:08 PM
     #6206

    But one can always hope  Wink

    Hope is useless, so relaxen und watschen der blinkenlichten.


     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    "When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
    Amazon UK BTC payment service - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301229.0 - with FREE delivery!
    http://www.ae911truth.org/ - http://rethink911.org/ - http://rememberbuilding7.org/
    kano
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1918


    Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 01:14:30 PM
     #6207

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!
    Future mining is unaffected by past mining.
    Thinking otherwise is called the Gambler's Falacy.
    I added a BFL SC Single on to p2pool today ... I wonder if that will help Smiley

    (P.S. I run /+64 but I don't put up the true share difficulty)

    Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
    CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
    Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
    Undef
    Newbie
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 18


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 02:57:44 PM
     #6208

    We have a long list of blocks in the "Strange Blocks" list on blockchain: https://blockchain.info/strange-transactions.  That list goes back to late May, and a cursory glance suggests every one of p2pool's blocks appears there.

    It looks like one of us isn't getting paid  Cry

    Since this is always at the bottom of each transaction list:

    Code:
    1Kz5QaUPDtKrj5SqW5tFkn7WZh8LmQaQi4 0.0123456789 BTC
    Unable to decode input address 0 BTC

    Does that mean 1Kz5Q is the one not getting paid?  Are those coins redistributed among the miners (I'm not sure they could be), or just lost?

    Should we worry about this at all?
    kjj
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1302



    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 04:20:51 PM
     #6209

    We have a long list of blocks in the "Strange Blocks" list on blockchain: https://blockchain.info/strange-transactions.  That list goes back to late May, and a cursory glance suggests every one of p2pool's blocks appears there.

    It looks like one of us isn't getting paid  Cry

    Since this is always at the bottom of each transaction list:

    Code:
    1Kz5QaUPDtKrj5SqW5tFkn7WZh8LmQaQi4 0.0123456789 BTC
    Unable to decode input address 0 BTC

    Does that mean 1Kz5Q is the one not getting paid?  Are those coins redistributed among the miners (I'm not sure they could be), or just lost?

    Should we worry about this at all?

    No, p2pool shares are regular bitcoin blocks.  The generation transaction includes a bogus transaction to keep track of internal state (actually, a hash of the share chain).  Incidentally, the current protocol actually had a change to that bogus transaction to make it more network friendly.

    p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
    I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
    zvs
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1386



    View Profile WWW
    July 23, 2013, 05:06:16 PM
     #6210

    oh, check out this beast:
    If you're gonna keep posting this crap, at least learn how to use a code box.

    Seriously, how difficult is this?
    Why?  I wasn't quoting anyone.  There was one or two lines posted before the log snippet?   Roll Eyes

    If you're complaining about the length, then surely something like

    this

    would be better

    Quote
    Again, most punished shares are good shares turned block-stale by a new block. That means with hash < block target, they would have been a valid block at the time they were found.

    Yeah, I didn't notice that/pick up on that myself until that one share that was 20 seconds prior to block still being 'punished'.   Undecided

    Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
    mdude77
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1358


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
     #6211

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

    I've been on for 3 days now.  I'm still not at "ideal" payout.  Despite running at > 100% efficiency.  Everyone else seeing this?  Running around 5gh/s.

    M

    MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
    Buyer beware of Bitmain hardware and services.
    freshzive
    Sr. Member
    ****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 447


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 10:33:53 PM
     #6212

    Yeah, it takes quite a while now because the difficulty shot up after the upgrade. I forget how many days it took my 15GH to reach optimal, but I felt like it was near a week.

    notme
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1526


    View Profile
    July 23, 2013, 11:18:58 PM
     #6213

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!

    I've been on for 3 days now.  I'm still not at "ideal" payout.  Despite running at > 100% efficiency.  Everyone else seeing this?  Running around 5gh/s.

    M

    Does the reported hashrate match your mining software?  Also, on the graphs page check the "Local Rate" vs "Local Rate Reflected in Shares".  If LRRiS is lower than LR, than you have just had bad luck and it should even out with time.

    https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
    While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
    12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
    lenny_
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 953



    View Profile
    July 24, 2013, 12:33:52 AM
     #6214

    Why p2pool.info is showing wrong hashrate?

    Code:
    Pool Hashrate: 261.6 GH/s
    Estimated Time to Block: 5d 22h 32m
    Current Round: 4d 17h 0m

    My node reports right now:
    Code:
    Pool rate: 2.00TH/s (9.1% DOA+orphan) Share difficulty: 8470

    Node uptime: 1.714 days Peers: 6 out, 5 in
    notme
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1526


    View Profile
    July 24, 2013, 12:51:24 AM
     #6215

    Why p2pool.info is showing wrong hashrate?

    Code:
    Pool Hashrate: 261.6 GH/s
    Estimated Time to Block: 5d 22h 32m
    Current Round: 4d 17h 0m

    My node reports right now:
    Code:
    Pool rate: 2.00TH/s (9.1% DOA+orphan) Share difficulty: 8470

    Node uptime: 1.714 days Peers: 6 out, 5 in

    It must be on the old fork

    https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
    While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
    12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
    twmz
    Hero Member
    *****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 737



    View Profile
    July 24, 2013, 12:53:57 AM
     #6216

    Why p2pool.info is showing wrong hashrate?

    Code:
    Pool Hashrate: 261.6 GH/s
    Estimated Time to Block: 5d 22h 32m
    Current Round: 4d 17h 0m

    My node reports right now:
    Code:
    Pool rate: 2.00TH/s (9.1% DOA+orphan) Share difficulty: 8470

    Node uptime: 1.714 days Peers: 6 out, 5 in

    It must be on the old fork

    *sigh*

    My home network has been down for a couple hours and so p2pool.info switched to using one of the other public p2pool nodes to get stats.  Sadly, it happened to choose one that is on a fork.

    Edit: ironically, it was pulling stats from p2pool.org, which is on an old fork.  I'll remove that one from the list of possible backup stats nodes.

    Was I helpful?  1TwmzX1wBxNF2qtAJRhdKmi2WyLZ5VHRs
    WoT, GPG

    Bitrated user: ewal.
    freshzive
    Sr. Member
    ****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 447


    View Profile
    July 24, 2013, 01:09:39 AM
     #6217

    omg, we found one. now 10 more please.

    daemondazz
    Sr. Member
    ****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 280



    View Profile
    July 24, 2013, 01:29:00 AM
     #6218

    When is this round going to end Sad

    Seeing as my nodes have had very bad luck the last couple of days (2.2hrs to share, 6 shares in the last 48 hours!) and my payout has dropped to under half what it was a day ago, I'm predicting a bunch of blocks in short succession!
    Future mining is unaffected by past mining.
    Thinking otherwise is called the Gambler's Falacy.
    I added a BFL SC Single on to p2pool today ... I wonder if that will help Smiley

    (P.S. I run /+64 but I don't put up the true share difficulty)

    I am aware of that, just pointing out that my luck (in general, not just mining) always seems to be on the bad end of the scale. Maybe I'm just jinxed.

    Computers, Amateur Radio, Electronics, Aviation - 1dazzrAbMqNu6cUwh2dtYckNygG7jKs8S
    daemondazz
    Sr. Member
    ****
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 280



    View Profile
    July 24, 2013, 03:10:24 AM
     #6219

    Maybe I'm just jinxed.

    Told you, my payout is currently at about half the normal level due to the my bad luck in finding shares over the last couple of days and this is when we find 2 blocks in less than 2 hours.

    Computers, Amateur Radio, Electronics, Aviation - 1dazzrAbMqNu6cUwh2dtYckNygG7jKs8S
    kano
    Legendary
    *
    Offline Offline

    Activity: 1918


    Linux since 1997 RedHat 4


    View Profile
    July 24, 2013, 03:13:49 AM
     #6220

    Maybe I'm just jinxed.

    Told you, my payout is currently at about half the normal level due to the my bad luck in finding shares over the last couple of days and this is when we find 2 blocks in less than 2 hours.
    There is no such thing as predetermined mining luck or misfortune Tongue
    Though bad software or hardware doesn't help Cheesy

    Edit: yes 16 block apart - not too bad.

    Edit2: see it was making up for your half payout by paying you twice Cheesy

    Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
    CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
    Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
    Pages: « 1 ... 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 [311] 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 ... 744 »
      Print  
     
    Jump to:  

    Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
    Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!