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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2034529 times)
xyzzy099
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December 07, 2013, 05:48:24 PM
 #7101

any way of running p2pool without full node?

using only standalone lan-connected miners

You can connect to any public p2pool node - here's a list:

http://p2pool-nodes.info/

When I ran P2Pool in the past, my IP showed up on that page.  I started my node up again a little over a week ago, and I see that I no longer show up there. Anyone have any idea why?  I can access it from outside my network, so I know it's publicly visible, and I really haven't changed anything at all since the time when it did show up.

I had some nodes up that never showed up on there either.  I don't believe nogleg.net ever appeared even though it was up for a good 3 or 4 weeks.   Maybe someone has to mine at it and find an actual share for it to appear?  not sure if that's the case w/ yours, but I know there were 0 shares on nogleg.net



My node has been up for 10.2 days and currently has found 374 shares, so that's not it.

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December 07, 2013, 06:18:53 PM
 #7102

Yup, seems easier to get a block than a share lately...... Cheesy
how nice to think something else, i hope you have enough cigars.

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December 08, 2013, 12:12:31 AM
 #7103

Block 273640 is interesting. 45.2 BTC, courtesy of an overpaid (20.14628295 BTC) fee. I wonder if BitMillions.com want their fees back? Surely this wasn't intended.

https://blockchain.info/tx/a2d1e19331f4ea274079c94382560bbb4f32165ed647a33adad651a604e7caa2

Vires in numeris
Damnsammit
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December 08, 2013, 05:38:17 AM
 #7104

Stupid old man here... no idea what I am doing with ASIC mining.  

I have been doing Scrypt mining and have no clue how to get this P2Pool working, but I am expecting to receive an ASIC Miner Cube soon and I will likely need help setting it up.  Paying .01btc and the first 24 hours of mining profits will be directed to a Bitcoin address of your choosing if you helping me set up the Cube and get it running properly at 35GH/s or higher.  PM me for more details.

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December 08, 2013, 05:59:16 AM
 #7105

Stupid old man here... no idea what I am doing with ASIC mining.  

I have been doing Scrypt mining and have no clue how to get this P2Pool working, but I am expecting to receive an ASIC Miner Cube soon and I will likely need help setting it up.  Paying .01btc and the first 24 hours of mining profits will be directed to a Bitcoin address of your choosing if you helping me set up the Cube and get it running properly at 35GH/s or higher.  PM me for more details.
Perhaps this guide could be of use to you?

BTC: 1KrakenLFEFg33A4f6xpwgv3UUoxrLPuGn
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December 08, 2013, 06:01:01 AM
 #7106

Stupid old man here... no idea what I am doing with ASIC mining.  

I have been doing Scrypt mining and have no clue how to get this P2Pool working, but I am expecting to receive an ASIC Miner Cube soon and I will likely need help setting it up.  Paying .01btc and the first 24 hours of mining profits will be directed to a Bitcoin address of your choosing if you helping me set up the Cube and get it running properly at 35GH/s or higher.  PM me for more details.
Perhaps this guide could be of use to you?

To be honest, I have read it a few times and I understand some of it, but I still think it is going to take me like a week or two to set it up.  That is not acceptable lol
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December 08, 2013, 01:08:19 PM
 #7107

Stupid old man here... no idea what I am doing with ASIC mining.  

I have been doing Scrypt mining and have no clue how to get this P2Pool working, but I am expecting to receive an ASIC Miner Cube soon and I will likely need help setting it up.  Paying .01btc and the first 24 hours of mining profits will be directed to a Bitcoin address of your choosing if you helping me set up the Cube and get it running properly at 35GH/s or higher.  PM me for more details.



You might want to consider that you'll need to run a Stratum proxy on the machine you use, unless the boards or controller in the ASIC Miner Cubes are different to the original ASIC Miner devices. So your software setup will be a little more customised than the standard p2pool arrangement.

Vires in numeris
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December 08, 2013, 01:37:18 PM
 #7108

With the share difficulty bouncing between 450000 - 500000 lately, and with the local luck the last few days, I've been having problems getting a share within the 24 hour window needed to keep payouts above 0.  I've got 20+Ghs going and I used to get 0.025 per block a few weeks ago, but now I'm struggling for the past week to get 0.005 per block and it has mostly been 0 even with 7 shares and 120% efficiency during the last week.  So even if luck for Blocks has been great over the last week, the share count has made running my local P2Pool node insolvent.  Anyone else seeing the same?

It's stuff like this more than a pretty interface or easy setup that will push people like me to go back to centralized pools.  So for now, until I can grab more horsepower and try again (I have 100+Ghs worth of Drillbit Bitfury boards waiting for repair), I'm bowing out of P2Pool and going back to BTC Guild.  Love the concept and it was going great for awhile, but it looks like only the big boys can play in the P2Pool anymore.

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December 08, 2013, 01:42:40 PM
 #7109

With the share difficulty bouncing between 450000 - 500000 lately, and with the local luck the last few days, I've been having problems getting a share within the 24 hour window needed to keep payouts above 0.  I've got 20+Ghs going and I used to get 0.025 per block a few weeks ago, but now I'm struggling for the past week to get 0.005 per block and it has mostly been 0 even with 7 shares and 120% efficiency during the last week.  So even if luck for Blocks has been great over the last week, the share count has made running my local P2Pool node insolvent.  Anyone else seeing the same?

It's stuff like this more than a pretty interface or easy setup that will push people like me to go back to centralized pools.  So for now, until I can grab more horsepower and try again (I have 100+Ghs Drillbit Bitfury boards waiting for repair), I'm bowing out of P2Pool and going back to BTC Guild.  Love the concept and it was going great for awhile, but it looks like only the big boys can play in the P2Pool anymore.

Insolvent?  Your p2pool node has debts?

I'm running around 7 Ghash/sec on p2pool.  Some days I don't have an active share, and I get nothing.  Other days, I do have an active share, and I get paid for blocks.  It all evens out.

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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December 08, 2013, 01:50:16 PM
 #7110

Ok, Insolvent is the wrong word unless the debts owed are to me Smiley

But, yes it USED to even out.... or actually it used to pay more than the Centralized PPLNS pools, but not anymore.  Even with 7 shares found for my p2pool node over the last week, I only had 2 days where blocks paid out at a miniscule amount, and this was during a very lucky few days in terms of Blocks found.

So no, it no longer evens out compared to what I earn at BTC Guild on PPLNS now, because actual work effort towards finding a Block is paid out no matter how small the effort.  I have essentially "useless" work effort over the last week on P2pool that didn't pay out at all.  I'm also not some noob who just started on P2Pool.  I optimized the hell out of my bitcoind and p2pool settings, was almost always above 110% efficiency and I used to see plenty of shares for the past few months.  But the last month has been horrible even with a stint of good luck in finding blocks for the pool.  With the difficulty per share set so high, and the timeframe threshold to earn a piece in the pie, I would now need much higher than my current 20Ghs to get anything.  That is troubling if we're trying to have a peer-to-peer supported pool if its setting the lower bar at 100GH and the "little guys" like me don't even get crumbs.  

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December 08, 2013, 02:48:53 PM
 #7111

Ok, Insolvent is the wrong word unless the debts owed are to me Smiley

But, yes it USED to even out.... or actually it used to pay more than the Centralized PPLNS pools, but not anymore.  Even with 7 shares found for my p2pool node over the last week, I only had 2 days where blocks paid out at a miniscule amount, and this was during a very lucky few days in terms of Blocks found.

So no, it no longer evens out compared to what I earn at BTC Guild on PPLNS now, because actual work effort towards finding a Block is paid out no matter how small the effort.  I have essentially "useless" work effort over the last week on P2pool that didn't pay out at all.  I'm also not some noob who just started on P2Pool.  I optimized the hell out of my bitcoind and p2pool settings, was almost always above 110% efficiency and I used to see plenty of shares for the past few months.  But the last month has been horrible even with a stint of good luck in finding blocks for the pool.  With the difficulty per share set so high, and the timeframe threshold to earn a piece in the pie, I would now need much higher than my current 20Ghs to get anything.  That is troubling if we're trying to have a peer-to-peer supported pool if its setting the lower bar at 100GH and the "little guys" like me don't even get crumbs.  

Yeah, I've had weeks like that too.  And I've had really good weeks.  It may take longer than a few weeks, but it really will all even out.

Our overall luck is positive right now, by quite a bit.  There is some speculation that our secondary block distribution method may make p2pool the most efficient way to mine.

The only reason I can think of for wanting to switch to a centralized pool is if you really need your mBTC coming in as a steady stream.  If you can weather the bad days and bad weeks along the way, you should stick around.

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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December 08, 2013, 03:42:36 PM
 #7112

Ok, Insolvent is the wrong word unless the debts owed are to me Smiley

But, yes it USED to even out.... or actually it used to pay more than the Centralized PPLNS pools, but not anymore.  Even with 7 shares found for my p2pool node over the last week, I only had 2 days where blocks paid out at a miniscule amount, and this was during a very lucky few days in terms of Blocks found.

So no, it no longer evens out compared to what I earn at BTC Guild on PPLNS now, because actual work effort towards finding a Block is paid out no matter how small the effort.  I have essentially "useless" work effort over the last week on P2pool that didn't pay out at all.  I'm also not some noob who just started on P2Pool.  I optimized the hell out of my bitcoind and p2pool settings, was almost always above 110% efficiency and I used to see plenty of shares for the past few months.  But the last month has been horrible even with a stint of good luck in finding blocks for the pool.  With the difficulty per share set so high, and the timeframe threshold to earn a piece in the pie, I would now need much higher than my current 20Ghs to get anything.  That is troubling if we're trying to have a peer-to-peer supported pool if its setting the lower bar at 100GH and the "little guys" like me don't even get crumbs. 

Yeah, I've had weeks like that too.  And I've had really good weeks.  It may take longer than a few weeks, but it really will all even out.

Our overall luck is positive right now, by quite a bit.  There is some speculation that our secondary block distribution method may make p2pool the most efficient way to mine.

The only reason I can think of for wanting to switch to a centralized pool is if you really need your mBTC coming in as a steady stream.  If you can weather the bad days and bad weeks along the way, you should stick around.

I've been around for months and I saw those good weeks too.  The point being that at the current structure of share difficulty for p2pool shares, I'll never see those days again.  It won't even out.  Its callously preventing actual work below 100GH from achieving any semblance of reward. This could be solved if the 24 hour share limit was raised to 48 or even 72 hours before demoting miners to 0 payout level.

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December 08, 2013, 04:02:26 PM
 #7113

I've been around for months and I saw those good weeks too.  The point being that at the current structure of share difficulty for p2pool shares, I'll never see those days again.  It won't even out.  Its callously preventing actual work below 100GH from achieving any semblance of reward. This could be solved if the 24 hour share limit was raised to 48 or even 72 hours before demoting miners to 0 payout level.

And I'm telling you that you are wrong about this.

During the time that you have a share active, you will be getting more per block than you "should", which will balance out the times when you don't have a share active (when you will be getting less than you "should").

In the long run, (fraction of time with share active)*(reward per block) will equal out to (reward per block)*((my hash rate)/(pool hash rate)

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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December 08, 2013, 04:03:17 PM
 #7114

I've been around for months and I saw those good weeks too.  The point being that at the current structure of share difficulty for p2pool shares, I'll never see those days again.  It won't even out.  Its callously preventing actual work below 100GH from achieving any semblance of reward. This could be solved if the 24 hour share limit was raised to 48 or even 72 hours before demoting miners to 0 payout level.

It's not really the p2Pool reward method that's the problem - that's just a source of variance. You'll get crap days and extremely good days. It's the network mining difficulty that's the source of your woes.

p2Pool's variance is less than it has been for quite a while (p2Pool's share of the network is back up to what it was a year ago, and increasing rapidly. Think about it this way - what has changed from 12 months ago? The variance is the same, and much better than six months ago.

I think the reason you're really feeling it is the rapid increase in network hashrate (and difficulty). 100 Ghps is now equivalent to 486 Mhps one year ago, worth about 0.07 coins per day. Even 1Thps miners aren't earning much. It makes me sad to say it, but it wouldn't surprise me greatly if this time next year the majority of miners have more than 1Phps each. BTCGuild already has a 125 Thps miner on board.


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December 08, 2013, 04:19:20 PM
 #7115

The network hashrate and difficulty rise affects me on centralized pools like BTC guild just like on P2pool.  The difference is that good days or bad days I get some reward no matter how minuscule on the centralized pools.  On P2pool there's a threshold that prevents almost any reward even on good luck weeks like this past one.  No matter the variance (again this was a good week for the pool) I would see Zilch here. P2pool is great if you have a hope of returning a share within the 24 hours.  The ramp up and down and time separation between shares prevents me from having my "more than I should". I no longer fit in that category.  So why should I continue to use my optimized local node if 6 out of 7 days of a GOOD week with 7 shares found shows 0 payout?

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December 08, 2013, 04:27:36 PM
 #7116

The network hashrate and difficulty rise affects me on centralized pools like BTC guild just like on P2pool.  The difference is that good days or bad days I get some reward no matter how minuscule on the centralized pools.  On P2pool there's a threshold that prevents almost any reward even on good luck weeks like this past one.  No matter the variance (again this was a good week for the pool) I would see Zilch here. P2pool is great if you have a hope of returning a share within the 24 hours.  The ramp up and down and time separation between shares prevents me from having my "more than I should". I no longer fit in that category.  So why should I continue to use my optimized local node if 6 out of 7 days of a GOOD week with 7 shares found shows 0 payout?

This is not true. If it were, PPLNS would be broken, and your rewards on BTCGuild would be just as bad. A PPLNS reward method guarantees that in the long term you'll be paid the same per share as everyone else. You might not like it (and there's plenty of mathematical proofs that I don't like) but that's the way it is.

Also, if you're basing your statement on a couple of weeks mining, then there's no way you'll get an accurate idea of whether or not your payments are correct. At your current hashrate, you'll need many weeks of mining to get an accurate idea of your average earnings.

If you can't handle the variance, you don't have to move to a centralised pool. Why not try one of the pools that act as a p2Pool relayer, which will reduce variance to the same as you see at a centralised pool? You'll also not need to maintain your own p2Pool client anymore.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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December 08, 2013, 04:42:46 PM
 #7117

Again.  I've had a p2pool node that has been running for months not weeks.  I'm relating actual experience and evidence based on fact not theory. I have had good weeks.  The problem is that even at an estimated 19 hours between shares, I'm at 0 payout for over a week while I'm supposed to participate in this "good week".  This isn't a PPLNS issue.  Because already in parallel miners I have payout on BTC Guild with a lot less horsepower than what I've had on p2pool. The share for 24 hours limit is NOT being impelemented on other PPLNS pools. Even though theory says I should be earning more over the course of time on p2pool, 4 month totals do not bare this out.  

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December 08, 2013, 04:48:47 PM
 #7118

Again.  I've have a p2pool node that has been running for months not weeks.  I'm relating actual experience and evidence based on fact not theory.

You notice that you're not being paid enough, but you're not relating it to a probability of earning that amount in that time period. Unless you do that, how can you know whether PPLNS or p2Pool are broken? Your earnings may be quite possible, or even probable.



Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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December 08, 2013, 04:50:59 PM
 #7119

Again.  I've have a p2pool node that has been running for months not weeks.  I'm relating actual experience and evidence based on fact not theory.

You notice that you're not being paid enough, but you're not relating it to a probability of earning that amount in that time period. Unless you do that, how can you know whether PPLNS or p2Pool are broken? Your earnings may be quite possible, or even probable.




Probability has no bearing anymore when the reward system reduces my probability to 0 due to an arbitrary limit.  Again, one that does not exist in other PPLNS systems.  This is a fatal flaw.

Again. Paid enough is one thing.  Paid nothing is a whole other ball game.

Work effort expended with the majority of my miners and shares were found but p2pool gave me practically nothing in weeks.
BTC guild with a fraction of my GHs workers over the same time period gave me something. Supposedly p2pool had better luck in that time period and I ran this in parallel.

What would you do with that result after running a node for months and months?

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December 08, 2013, 04:55:44 PM
 #7120

And I'm telling you that you are wrong about this.

During the time that you have a share active, you will be getting more per block than you "should", which will balance out the times when you don't have a share active (when you will be getting less than you "should").

In the long run, (fraction of time with share active)*(reward per block) will equal out to (reward per block)*((my hash rate)/(pool hash rate)

Since you missed it before...

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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