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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2029330 times)
Rluner
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October 25, 2013, 04:59:16 PM
 #6821

Just a quick update on my 10GH processing via P2pool with my BE. I guess Ive been lucky as everything has always worked perfect for me on P2Pool, until this last difficulty rise. I used to get payouts in virtually every new block found. Ive been told by respected members of the forum I will still get my fair payout, and so I am continuing to processes via P2Pool even though I have not had a payout in around four solid days. I trust the members that have given me this advise. I will ofc feel happy when I see a payment again.......  ty all again.

UPDATE

After around 1 week of solid processing at 10 gh/s via p2pool network I received 0.00337845 BTC; after missing 16 block payouts in a row.

I'm sorry to say this can't be giving me my fair share for my work done on the p2pool network so I have moved off it.
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October 25, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
 #6822

Just a quick update on my 10GH processing via P2pool with my BE. I guess Ive been lucky as everything has always worked perfect for me on P2Pool, until this last difficulty rise. I used to get payouts in virtually every new block found. Ive been told by respected members of the forum I will still get my fair payout, and so I am continuing to processes via P2Pool even though I have not had a payout in around four solid days. I trust the members that have given me this advise. I will ofc feel happy when I see a payment again.......  ty all again.

UPDATE

After around 1 week of solid processing at 10 gh/s via p2pool network I received 0.00337845 BTC; after missing 16 block payouts in a row.

I'm sorry to say this can't be giving me my fair share for my work done on the p2pool network so I have moved off it.


Do you have any node info - hash rate, stale rate, DOA, efficiency?

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October 25, 2013, 05:33:44 PM
 #6823

Just a quick update on my 10GH processing via P2pool with my BE. I guess Ive been lucky as everything has always worked perfect for me on P2Pool, until this last difficulty rise. I used to get payouts in virtually every new block found. Ive been told by respected members of the forum I will still get my fair payout, and so I am continuing to processes via P2Pool even though I have not had a payout in around four solid days. I trust the members that have given me this advise. I will ofc feel happy when I see a payment again.......  ty all again.

UPDATE

After around 1 week of solid processing at 10 gh/s via p2pool network I received 0.00337845 BTC; after missing 16 block payouts in a row.

I'm sorry to say this can't be giving me my fair share for my work done on the p2pool network so I have moved off it.

The design of p2pool actually makes it impossible for you to get less than your fair share, over an infinite timeframe.  Your variance will grow as your hashrate shrinks in relation to the rest of the pool, but the sum will always work out.

p2pcoin: a USB/CD/PXE p2pool miner - 1N8ZXx2cuMzqBYSK72X4DAy1UdDbZQNPLf - todo
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October 25, 2013, 10:02:48 PM
 #6824

Your variance will grow as your hashrate shrinks in relation to the rest of the pool, but the sum will always work out.

Sure, but personally I'm a fan of P2Pool's instant payouts when a block is solved AND a low variance. Smiley

That's why I wrote a proposal that would allow any P2Pool node to honor the work of either only the miners that find shares (as usual) or also the work of all miners that submit (low-diff) shares. https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool/issues/135

This approach would lower the variance at well attended nodes a lot and therefore might encourage many low-level hashrate miners to use P2Pool again.
Feel free to attach comments, improvements or even qualms. Smiley


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October 26, 2013, 12:44:38 AM
 #6825

Just a quick update on my 10GH processing via P2pool with my BE. I guess Ive been lucky as everything has always worked perfect for me on P2Pool, until this last difficulty rise. I used to get payouts in virtually every new block found. Ive been told by respected members of the forum I will still get my fair payout, and so I am continuing to processes via P2Pool even though I have not had a payout in around four solid days. I trust the members that have given me this advise. I will ofc feel happy when I see a payment again.......  ty all again.

UPDATE

After around 1 week of solid processing at 10 gh/s via p2pool network I received 0.00337845 BTC; after missing 16 block payouts in a row.

I'm sorry to say this can't be giving me my fair share for my work done on the p2pool network so I have moved off it.


it isn't giving you your fair share if you are mining at something like p2pool.org

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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October 26, 2013, 01:28:28 AM
 #6826

After around 1 week of solid processing at 10 gh/s via p2pool network I received 0.00337845 BTC; after missing 16 block payouts in a row.
I'm sorry to say this can't be giving me my fair share for my work done on the p2pool network so I have moved off it.

You may have something wrong with your miner setup, or with the pool you're using - how many p2pool 'shares' did you submit ?

There is some element of 'randomness' - but a week of 15Gh/s has found 17 P2Pool-type 'shares' and apart from the 2 days when that miner had found no p2pool-shares, I've been paid on every block found.


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Rluner
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October 26, 2013, 07:39:27 AM
 #6827

After around 1 week of solid processing at 10 gh/s via p2pool network I received 0.00337845 BTC; after missing 16 block payouts in a row.
I'm sorry to say this can't be giving me my fair share for my work done on the p2pool network so I have moved off it.

You may have something wrong with your miner setup, or with the pool you're using - how many p2pool 'shares' did you submit ?

There is some element of 'randomness' - but a week of 15Gh/s has found 17 P2Pool-type 'shares' and apart from the 2 days when that miner had found no p2pool-shares, I've been paid on every block found.



Thanks for all the responses. It's good to get feed back.

My miner setup was working perfect before the difficulty rose to 268 m. I was running my own p2pool client, efficiently was near perfect, stall rate was virtually zero, DOA was zero. I was able to find a share in nearly every block and got paid out nearly every time. I think I missed two payouts in about twenty, but I hadn't found a share so I knew that was correct too.

As soon as the difficulty rose to 268 m without anything changing at my side (after three months working perfectly) I stopped receiving payouts. After a week I ended up with one pay out of a very low amount as previously wrote in a previous post, but p2pool has paid out about 17 times. I had noticed that I couldn't get a successful share before the pool solved a block and when I did manage to get two , one was orphaned. That's when I got my only payout in a week.

Summery....

After a week of running at 268 m I have to say p2pool did not work for my 10 gh processing.

It had worked perfectly below 268m difficulty, my payouts were nearly ever time and perfect amounts as I calculated from inputting numbers into online calculators.

The problem seems to me that my 10 gh can't get a share fast enough for the network, but although I was informed when I did get a share I would get my fair share I clearly didn't.

Also I have to add, at the same time I had another 10 gh in another pool, not p2pool, and this paid what I would have expected, over the same time period.

I end by saying I believe in the p2pool idea, and I thank the coders, but I also believe as the difficulty rises more low hashing users may have to leave p2pool network due to the issues I have mentioned.


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October 26, 2013, 01:02:44 PM
 #6828

As soon as the difficulty rose to 268 m without anything changing at my side (after three months working perfectly) I stopped receiving payouts. After a week I ended up with one pay out of a very low amount as previously wrote in a previous post, but p2pool has paid out about 17 times. I had noticed that I couldn't get a successful share before the pool solved a block and when I did manage to get two , one was orphaned.
That's the problem with a 'small' (yes anything under 100Gh/s is now small) hashrate compared to both your chosen pool and the total network rate.

The only way to have kept the amount more-or-less constant would have been to outgrow the %age changes and added 200 times your hashing power this year !

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October 26, 2013, 02:06:11 PM
 #6829

In my log file I'll occasionally get something like this:

log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.003554 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.015818 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.029308 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.038270 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.293668 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.307047 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.321228 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.355749 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.587437 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:42:53.603913 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!

p2pool has been up for 12 days.  

I'm positive that it's just happening for one person & doesn't occur all that often

right now, it's at:

log:2013-10-26 08:58:10.006940 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:58:10.017284 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:58:10.028608 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!

log:2013-10-26 08:59:11.588038 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!
log:2013-10-26 08:59:11.601600 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!

log:2013-10-26 09:00:12.743830 > Couldn't link returned work's merkle root with its handler. This should only happen if this process was recently restarted!

with no other errors in the past 5 minutes or so (during that time the miner I'm referring to had a hashrate swing of about 15ghash/s right when it started & then gradually increasing back to the norm).  The messages lasted from about 08:42:30 'til that last one at 09:00.

I'm guessing this is something related to the equipment being used to mine and not something locally on my p2pool?

Anyone else seen this?  Any setting or something I can change locally to make it not happen or happen less frequently?... or is it something that is totally out of my control?

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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October 26, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
 #6830

Hy,

the actually Payout System is not good.

You must change it to PPS.
And dynamic share diff for the miner.
So when a miner have 14GH diff -> to 4

So low Miner becomes coins for there work.

With the actually system, low miners must use the big pool with fee.

The p2pool system works only for high workers or nodes with many workers to get a high status.
So this will fallback to only one big node. = central node.

Or, many little nodes with "no shares" and no coin generate, the miners goes to the big pools.


A redesign of your network can help. And makes fun for the little miners.




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October 26, 2013, 03:17:16 PM
 #6831

Hy,

the actually Payout System is not good.

You must change it to PPS.
And dynamic share diff for the miner.
So when a miner have 14GH diff -> to 4

So low Miner becomes coins for there work.

With the actually system, low miners must use the big pool with fee.

The p2pool system works only for high workers or nodes with many workers to get a high status.
So this will fallback to only one big node. = central node.

Or, many little nodes with "no shares" and no coin generate, the miners goes to the big pools.


A redesign of your network can help. And makes fun for the little miners.
u clearly dont understand how p2pool works, so dont make any suggestions...

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October 26, 2013, 07:09:15 PM
 #6832

explain it.

e.g with a graphic.


I have understand:
every can make a node from the p2pool.
When you mine on your own node and you are faster than the "Expected time to block" you become shares on p2pool network.
When not, you loose all your mine shares. -> trash.

Only when your node can make a share, you and your miners become btc?

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October 26, 2013, 08:31:58 PM
 #6833

explain it.

e.g with a graphic.


I have understand:
every can make a node from the p2pool.
When you mine on your own node and you are faster than the "Expected time to block" you become shares on p2pool network.
When not, you loose all your mine shares. -> trash.

Only when your node can make a share, you and your miners become btc?


I don't think that's right, but I'm a bit sketchy on it myself.  Someone jump in here and fix any errors.

From my understanding, it's very similar to PPLNS (pay per last N shares) at any pool, except you are mining p2pool shares (at a 30 second target), instead of bitcoin blocks (at a 10 min target).  The share chain "N" is 8640 shares long.  When a new share is found the last share 8640 away from it is dropped.  When a bitcoin block is found, you are paid based on the number and difficulty of shares you have found that are still in the last 8640 shares of the share chain.  At a 30 second average per share and 8640 shares, that's 72 hours.  So if you find a share it stays valid, or in the share chain for a payment, for 3 days.  Or another way, when a block is found, payment is distributed for the last 8640 shares - which should span the last 3 days.  IDK how the diff of the share works though.

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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October 27, 2013, 02:45:09 AM
 #6834

I don't think that's right, but I'm a bit sketchy on it myself.  Someone jump in here and fix any errors.

From my understanding, it's very similar to PPLNS (pay per last N shares) at any pool, except you are mining p2pool shares (at a 30 second target), instead of bitcoin blocks (at a 10 min target).  The share chain "N" is 8640 shares long.  When a new share is found the last share 8640 away from it is dropped.  When a bitcoin block is found, you are paid based on the number and difficulty of shares you have found that are still in the last 8640 shares of the share chain.  At a 30 second average per share and 8640 shares, that's 72 hours.  So if you find a share it stays valid, or in the share chain for a payment, for 3 days.  Or another way, when a block is found, payment is distributed for the last 8640 shares - which should span the last 3 days.  IDK how the diff of the share works though.

really good explanation

share diff is determined such that:
1) a p2pool share is found every 30 seconds
2) no single miner is expected to generate >5% of the shares (difficulty is adjusted up to keep the total number of shares lower, just for them)

One more thing, the share chain isn't always 8640 long. It's 3x the expected work needed to find a block, or 8640, whichever is less. So right now it's ~45 hours, so a little under two days. (I believe that's what the code says, please correct me if I'm wrong)


All the math aside, what matters is that the expected payout using p2pool is greater than that of any other pool -- even for small miners. The variance, however, is bigger.
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October 27, 2013, 03:32:03 AM
 #6835

Exactly.  I can point my Blades to any other pool, be it one with a getwork interface, or any stratum pool via a stratum proxy, and guess what?  It works.  ONLY p2pool shit's it's lips when presented an ASICMiner (or KnC it seems).
You actually can't. You need to use a proxy.  Otherwise the broken blade firmware will flood the pool with invalid getwork responses because it ignores the target difficulty. Some pools will ban you for this, perhaps most won't but it's still flooding them with bogus work.

The asicminer firmware is broken in a lot of ways.  It's workable, but not good. ... and you can still use it with P2Pool, you just need to tell p2pool that this POS is going to return difficulty 1 no matter what.
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October 27, 2013, 03:35:43 AM
 #6836

I'm sorry to say this can't be giving me my fair share for my work done on the p2pool network so I have moved off it.
Sure it can be and very likely is, but indeed, it's higher variance for tiny miners. I don't begrudge you your variance preferences, but please don't confuse your emotional response to high variance for sudden expertise in the system.
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October 27, 2013, 03:44:13 AM
 #6837

Is it also run 440GH/s on "normal" pools? Looks like flushwork takes like 1 sec
No.  480-510GH/s.
IIRC the graph number minus DOA, but you get some of the DOA back because everyone else has them too. Should check with forrestv, also note you are 110% efficiency in that p2pool output, meaning you're outperforming the pool on average latency wise and are expect to get 110% of what you would expect based on your hashrate.

Is the CGminer claimed hashrate lower with p2pool then elsewhere?  If so, something about the hardware design / firmware / or miner driver is brain damaged.
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October 27, 2013, 04:10:24 AM
 #6838

Is it also run 440GH/s on "normal" pools? Looks like flushwork takes like 1 sec
No.  480-510GH/s.
IIRC the graph number minus DOA, but you get some of the DOA back because everyone else has them too. Should check with forrestv, also note you are 110% efficiency in that p2pool output, meaning you're outperforming the pool on average latency wise and are expect to get 110% of what you would expect based on your hashrate.

Is the CGminer claimed hashrate lower with p2pool then elsewhere?  If so, something about the hardware design / firmware / or miner driver is brain damaged.


Considering that my efficiency is over 100% and I generally pay up to a 3% pool fee elsewhere, I've left the Jupiter on p2pool - it's averaging out to 450GH/s so I shouldn't be too far off...if my understanding of efficiency is correct  Huh

The CGminer hashrate actually behaves opposite on other pools.  It always reports lower than p2pool reports, but reports higher than other pools.  On BTCGuild and Ozcoin CGminer shows 530GH/s and the pools 480-510.

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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October 27, 2013, 10:49:30 AM
 #6839

really good explanation

share diff is determined such that:
1) a p2pool share is found every 30 seconds
2) no single miner is expected to generate >5% of the shares (difficulty is adjusted up to keep the total number of shares lower, just for them)

One more thing, the share chain isn't always 8640 long. It's 3x the expected work needed to find a block, or 8640, whichever is less. So right now it's ~45 hours, so a little under two days. (I believe that's what the code says, please correct me if I'm wrong)


All the math aside, what matters is that the expected payout using p2pool is greater than that of any other pool -- even for small miners. The variance, however, is bigger.

Thats confuse me. I have mine for 2 Days (Friday and Saturday) with 14 GH on mine p2pool node smileandgo.de:9332
The Node makes no pool shares. My miner have make over 32k accepted shares to the node.
And i become no payouts to my address or to the node address

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October 27, 2013, 02:34:58 PM
 #6840


Thats confuse me. I have mine for 2 Days (Friday and Saturday) with 14 GH on mine p2pool node smileandgo.de:9332
The Node makes no pool shares. My miner have make over 32k accepted shares to the node.
And i become no payouts to my address or to the node address

You need to find a pool share. Think of it as a p2pool block maybe. When you find one your payout should be higher than an equivalent PPS payout to make up for the time you didn't find a pool share. That's how variance work - and you will have a lot of variance at that hashrate. What's your expected time to share?

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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