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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2029434 times)
roy7
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January 31, 2014, 09:07:27 PM
 #7621

hehe no problem, i think it is clear now. i havnt found enough shares then. so to get a payout of 1% of the shares i have to submit no less than 100 valid shares from this node. thank you very much! :-)


It's possible it's random, I don't know having not looked at the source code. So it might be every share has a 1% chance to go to the pool, or it might be every 100th share.

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roy7
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January 31, 2014, 09:37:20 PM
 #7622

hehe no problem, i think it is clear now. i havnt found enough shares then. so to get a payout of 1% of the shares i have to submit no less than 100 valid shares from this node. thank you very much! :-)


It's possible it's random, I don't know having not looked at the source code. So it might be every share has a 1% chance to go to the pool, or it might be every 100th share.

I looked it up, it is random. I play a card game where packs have a 1% chance of giving you a better card so I'm quite familiar with how much variance that can result in. So it's possible you might find 200-300 shares with no operator fee, or sometimes the node will find 100 shares and pay the node much more than 1%.

I wonder how difficulty it'd be for p2pool to support shares with multiple payment addresses. As I mentioned in an earlier way too long post, that could be used to both help address the variance of smaller miners and pay the operator exactly 1% of the shares found with less variance to the miners or the node operator.

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
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January 31, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
 #7623

To add support for multiple address shares, it'd basically be converting share_data.payout_addrress to a list (of addresses and amounts) and reflecting it correctly in block.gentx.coinbase as well. At least from my quick glance at the code so far. Does this sound right? Then of course handling the payout_address list properly in all spots.

There wouldn't seem to be a way to make this compatible with older nodes, so it'd have to be one of those features that doesn't activate until 95% of the nodes are on the minimum version that supports it.

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
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January 31, 2014, 10:45:28 PM
 #7624

Is there any other front ends other than the extended front end for P2Pool?
roy7
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January 31, 2014, 11:13:46 PM
 #7625

Is there any other front ends other than the extended front end for P2Pool?

I've seen a few. None that are like official public "download here" interfaces that I know of. For example here are a couple variations:

http://p2pool.etyd.org:9171/static/ (comes from http://sleipnir.syari.net/pool/)
http://q30.qhor.net:9171/static/


Edit: Found another one, with source.

https://github.com/johndoe75/p2pool-node-status

as used on:

http://bitcoin.p2pool.fr:9332/static/

Edit: Apparently the default extended inteface has some bugs, fixed by this version: https://github.com/blixnood/P2PoolExtendedFrontEnd

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February 01, 2014, 01:53:34 AM
 #7626

Had a nice conversation on irc about multiple payment address support in the share chain, and I can see why that might not be a good thing to support in a generalized way.

However I do want to suggest that the node fee be handled like donation with a special line in the share chain. It would only add 1 address to the share chain per share mined at a node with a fee, but the advantage is a node can't lie about the fee they are charging, and it reduces node and miner variance.

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
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February 01, 2014, 02:11:15 AM
 #7627

Had a nice conversation on irc about multiple payment address support in the share chain, and I can see why that might not be a good thing to support in a generalized way.

However I do want to suggest that the node fee be handled like donation with a special line in the share chain. It would only add 1 address to the share chain per share mined at a node with a fee, but the advantage is a node can't lie about the fee they are charging, and it reduces node and miner variance.

It would be nice to see the -fee system work based on bitcoins mined instead of shares. And it would be nice to specify if you only want the -fee to be applied to certain miners instead of the whole network. This way you don't need to worry about your own miner(s) having to pay the same fee.

Would also be nice to see more information on the minters, such as a estimate time to payout and the payout itself.

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February 01, 2014, 03:40:53 AM
 #7628

I'm losing hope here... we lost 100 users which certainly isn't helping variance.

roy7
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February 01, 2014, 04:30:05 AM
 #7629

I'm losing hope here... we lost 100 users which certainly isn't helping variance.

Any idea why that is?

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
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February 01, 2014, 04:48:49 AM
 #7630

It does stand to reason that smaller miners with a few GH or even less -- say USB miners of various types -- of which there are probably a large number, may be dropping off as the difficulty rises. I've argued in the past they really shouldn't worry about it and should just accept a few dollars per day in variance, but that doesn't mean they will actually do what I say. Many have probably switched over to PPS or other pools.

I don't really know what can or should be done about that. The current design of p2pool doesn't really lend itself to supporting arbitrarily small miners in the way people seem to want (or even at all if one considers the cost of running a full bitcoin node).

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February 01, 2014, 06:54:46 AM
 #7631

For the sake of having another pool to balance against (yes I do this on occasion) a % (due to balance) of my hash rate is pointing at p2pool.
As normal the variance is astounding.
150GH/s pointed at p2pool is also too small to expect any better variance when the difficulty is in the high 100,000's
Some days I get as low as 0 or 1 share, other days (today) I've got 9 shares so far with 6 hours to go ...
Expected is 6 shares a day.
Yes that's variance, yes that's expected, and yes the way the pool handles difficulty is screwed (as I've explained before Tongue)
IMO p2pool has massive variance for small miners and I'd call my 150GH/s here a small miners (which it is)

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
smoothrunnings
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February 01, 2014, 07:19:58 AM
 #7632

Is there any other front ends other than the extended front end for P2Pool?

I've seen a few. None that are like official public "download here" interfaces that I know of. For example here are a couple variations:

http://p2pool.etyd.org:9171/static/
http://q30.qhor.net:9171/static/


Edit: Found another one, with source.

https://github.com/johndoe75/p2pool-node-status

as used on:

http://bitcoin.p2pool.fr:9332/static/

I really like the p2pool-node-status page more so than the extended front end one. Thanks!

Let me know if you see any others. Smiley

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February 01, 2014, 07:25:14 AM
 #7633

For the sake of having another pool to balance against (yes I do this on occasion) a % (due to balance) of my hash rate is pointing at p2pool.
As normal the variance is astounding.
150GH/s pointed at p2pool is also too small to expect any better variance when the difficulty is in the high 100,000's
Some days I get as low as 0 or 1 share, other days (today) I've got 9 shares so far with 6 hours to go ...
Expected is 6 shares a day.
Yes that's variance, yes that's expected, and yes the way the pool handles difficulty is screwed (as I've explained before Tongue)
IMO p2pool has massive variance for small miners and I'd call my 150GH/s here a small miners (which it is)

Don't forget the shares are active for a while (more than a day I think) so even if you get no shares or fewer shares you may still have old shares that pay out.

Your point is valid though.
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February 01, 2014, 08:01:25 AM
 #7634

Is anyone using this?

https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool.info2
tvb
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February 01, 2014, 08:43:49 AM
 #7635

Is there a forum post or website where all the altcoin networks.py settings are being shared? I can see the P2pool forks on Github where people commit their own networks.py settings back to their own repository but none are being merged back into the original forrestv/p2pool repository. For now, I am specifically searching for the Digibyte altcoin but would like to add the other altcoins later on as well.

I am talking about this part:

   
Code:
litecoin=math.Object(
    PARENT=networks.nets['litecoin'],
    SHARE_PERIOD=15, # seconds
    CHAIN_LENGTH=24*60*60//10, # shares
    REAL_CHAIN_LENGTH=24*60*60//10, # shares
    TARGET_LOOKBEHIND=200, # shares
    SPREAD=3, # blocks
    IDENTIFIER='e037d5b8c6923410'.decode('hex'),
    PREFIX='7208c1a53ef629b0'.decode('hex'),
    P2P_PORT=9 338,
    MIN_TARGET=0,
    MAX_TARGET=2**256//2**20 - 1,
    PERSIST=True,
    WORKER_PORT=9327,
    BOOTSTRAP_ADDRS='...'.split(' '),
    ANNOUNCE_CHANNEL='#p2pool-ltc',
    VERSION_CHECK=lambda v: True,
    VERSION_WARNING=lambda v: 'Upgrade Litecoin to >=0.8.5.1!' if v < 80501 else None,
),

And if none are being shared publicly, how do I correctly edit the settings myself for the different altcoins?

DGB D6caUG54gxgwqWhws3fnuugeEDtFZiX1DD
roy7
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February 01, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
 #7636

Some days I get as low as 0 or 1 share, other days (today) I've got 9 shares so far with 6 hours to go ...
Expected is 6 shares a day.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But one thing to remember is the PPLNS window in p2pool is currently 3 days since the move to a 30 second retarget time. So the daily variance in your # of shares is softened, since your payments are tied to the variance in your total # of shares over 3 days instead.

Yes that's variance, yes that's expected, and yes the way the pool handles difficulty is screwed (as I've explained before Tongue)

When I read the last 5 months of posts the other day I saw some discussions you had on the difficulty and large miners having increased difficulty to reduce the total # of shares they have in the sharechain. Edit: Was back around December. I thought there were 2-3 excellent replies that clarified it all for you, but I guess you didn't accept their explanations? Smiley

IMO p2pool has massive variance for small miners and I'd call my 150GH/s here a small miners (which it is)

Yes, if p2pool is dropping 150GH miners like flies that's a serious problem. A single GPU miner somewhere can just not be worried about. When I hear "small miner"  I think someone who has an expected share rate below 1 a day, so at times they will not even be in the share chain and receive no payments. I wouldn't think, myself, that a miner with an average 18 shares on the chain is 'small'.

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
oldbushie
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February 01, 2014, 04:51:52 PM
 #7637

I wonder if the anomaly from Jan 19 is what partially caused the mass exodus, considering that's when users started dropping off considerably.

smoothrunnings
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February 01, 2014, 06:34:06 PM
 #7638

Is anyone having a hard time finding bitcoin blocks?

Krak
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February 01, 2014, 06:51:11 PM
 #7639

Is anyone having a hard time finding bitcoin blocks?
Apparently the whole pool is.

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kano
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February 01, 2014, 08:42:57 PM
 #7640

Some days I get as low as 0 or 1 share, other days (today) I've got 9 shares so far with 6 hours to go ...
Expected is 6 shares a day.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But one thing to remember is the PPLNS window in p2pool is currently 3 days since the move to a 30 second retarget time. So the daily variance in your # of shares is softened, since your payments are tied to the variance in your total # of shares over 3 days instead.
Yeah except that since my 150GH/s is small for p2pool the variance is easily pushing results out the window Sad
28th 3 shares
29th 3 shares
30th 3 shares
31st 3 shares
1st 9 shares

(Edit: yes the 0/1 shares was the 50GH/s for a couple of days)

Rejects 2 shares ... yes better than average Smiley

Look here if you are interested.
http://198.245.60.111/Pix/20140102-p2poo.png

Yes that's variance, yes that's expected, and yes the way the pool handles difficulty is screwed (as I've explained before Tongue)

When I read the last 5 months of posts the other day I saw some discussions you had on the difficulty and large miners having increased difficulty to reduce the total # of shares they have in the sharechain. Edit: Was back around December. I thought there were 2-3 excellent replies that clarified it all for you, but I guess you didn't accept their explanations? Smiley
The issue there is the reason why the difficulty jumps so violently all over the place.
The method used isn't valid.
It uses the bitcoind method of estimating difficulty - which with bitcoind is applied to a set of fixed difficulty data and thus produces the expected result.
With p2pool it's a random set of difficulty data (that changes each share) and thus produces the exceptionally high varying difficulty ... as can be clearly seen.

IMO p2pool has massive variance for small miners and I'd call my 150GH/s here a small miners (which it is)

Yes, if p2pool is dropping 150GH miners like flies that's a serious problem. A single GPU miner somewhere can just not be worried about. When I hear "small miner"  I think someone who has an expected share rate below 1 a day, so at times they will not even be in the share chain and receive no payments. I wouldn't think, myself, that a miner with an average 18 shares on the chain is 'small'.
My share chain shares have been 3, 6, 9, 9, 15 Tongue
(though it's lower since 2 shares where rejected and I'd have to work out which 2 they were)
I've not reached 18 in 3 days yet ...

(... yes I've not commented about the low block finding ... i.e. low payout ... I've not looked at it closely)

Edit: just got 2 shares in 3 minutes ... 1 rejected Sad

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
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