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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2031540 times)
Yogafan00000
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December 18, 2013, 07:04:19 PM
 #7221

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?
Yes, I also meet the similar condition (look at the previous page). The client 13.4 does not function properly and nobody here tempts to explain why. Do not use it.

Ok, I rolled back to my previous versions of p2pool and litecoin wallet.

Interestingly enough, I decided to do a wallet backup before the rollback.  Before I had a chance to backup, Litecoin wallet had crashed.  When I restarted, the wallet was ~26 hours out of sync.  When it resync'd, I only had mining payouts from my smaller pre-upgrade pool.  No rewards from the upgraded pool.

Before all of this, I was getting from 4-10 mining payouts per day on my larger pool.

Something appears hinky with the new versions of Litecoin and p2pool.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
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organofcorti
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December 19, 2013, 02:01:32 AM
 #7222

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.

Yes, to the graph, sort of. I did a chart of estimated share difficulty assuming that all miners had the default difficulty estimation, but it was about 30 - 40 % too high as of last week, probably because larger miners are using higher difficulty shares. I don't know of a data based chart of average difficulty though.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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Bismarckbkk
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December 19, 2013, 05:25:31 AM
 #7223

To use a public node do I have to use my btc wallet as Username?

And how does payment work? Do I have to rely on the node host to manually transfer ?

1EPhcyv9GPcCwwbtVt3a3nwC1o4pn67bax
Krellan
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December 19, 2013, 06:51:14 AM
 #7224

Here is the list  Grin

Nice, thanks for making the list!

Was wondering how much should be refunded, out of what I got out of mining that block (what little there was, I'm a small-time miner).

Just sent my refund now.  I wonder how much he ended up getting back?

Josh

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kano
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December 19, 2013, 01:10:55 PM
 #7225

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)
Yes (to the theory)
Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate" - which clearly you don't understand what that is.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
 #7226

Just sent my refund now.  I wonder how much he ended up getting back?

Well, the address has received:

https://blockchain.info/address/1Jt35Ww1GjM9iGyTM8mAyBmCPPdPz7Z35A

0.00910939
0.012
0.01034493
0.00782222
0.00833241
0.01636022
0.05
0.007
0.01211514
0.4
0.24946551
0.00078327
0.13003489
0.00785308
0.03835116
0.01000602

Total: 0.96957824

So, about 5% refunded, assuming all payments are refund payments.

1LxbG5cKXzTwZg9mjL3gaRE835uNQEteWF
TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 01:20:10 PM
 #7227

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)
Yes (to the theory)
Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate" - which clearly you don't understand what that is.

The number of shares is targeted at one every 30 seconds.

If everyone used the minimum share difficulty, then it would be directly linked.

However, if a large miner uses low difficulty, he would generate lots of shares.  In order to help the pool, he sets his difficulty higher.

This means he gets fewer shares, but each share has a higher weight.

If that miner was 25% of the hashing power, and he contributed only 1% of the shares, then the pool would only generate 76% as many shares.

The difficulty algorithm would re-target and reduce the minimum difficulty.  This would push the share rate back to one every 30 seconds.

If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates.  This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.

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Yogafan00000
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December 19, 2013, 01:55:39 PM
 #7228

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?
Yes, I also meet the similar condition (look at the previous page). The client 13.4 does not function properly and nobody here tempts to explain why. Do not use it.

Ok, I rolled back to my previous versions of p2pool and litecoin wallet.

Interestingly enough, I decided to do a wallet backup before the rollback.  Before I had a chance to backup, Litecoin wallet had crashed.  When I restarted, the wallet was ~26 hours out of sync.  When it resync'd, I only had mining payouts from my smaller pre-upgrade pool.  No rewards from the upgraded pool.

Before all of this, I was getting from 4-10 mining payouts per day on my larger pool.

Something appears hinky with the new versions of Litecoin and p2pool.

I'm happy to report mining rewards are appearing again after the rollback to the previous versions. Shares: 4 (0 orphan, 1 dead)

I'm figuring the upgrade cost me a 2 day's worth of Litecoins, which for me, is about 0.6LTC.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
Yogafan00000
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December 19, 2013, 02:18:38 PM
 #7229

Here is the list  Grin


My portion of the refund sent.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)
supermine
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December 19, 2013, 03:19:50 PM
 #7230

Do you recomment using p2pool as only "pool" ? I'm having troubles with downtimes for certain coins with other pools.

I have 1Mh/s with Scrypt (2 fast GPUs), is it wise to connect to p2pool only?

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kano
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December 19, 2013, 08:05:00 PM
 #7231

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time?  In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory)
Yes (to the theory)
Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate" - which clearly you don't understand what that is.

The number of shares is targeted at one every 30 seconds.

If everyone used the minimum share difficulty, then it would be directly linked.

However, if a large miner uses low difficulty, he would generate lots of shares.  In order to help the pool, he sets his difficulty higher.

This means he gets fewer shares, but each share has a higher weight.

If that miner was 25% of the hashing power, and he contributed only 1% of the shares, then the pool would only generate 76% as many shares.

The difficulty algorithm would re-target and reduce the minimum difficulty.  This would push the share rate back to one every 30 seconds.

If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates.  This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.
No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.

The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more - it doesn't affect the average.

The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Smiley

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
supermine
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December 19, 2013, 08:34:14 PM
 #7232

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?

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Krak
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December 19, 2013, 08:43:15 PM
 #7233

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?
About 1 millisecond.

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Schleicher
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December 19, 2013, 08:50:48 PM
 #7234

If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates.  This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.
No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.
We are not talking about the lenght of the rounds here.
It's about the number of shares per minute.

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TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 09:04:40 PM
 #7235

No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.

The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more - it doesn't affect the average.

I didn't claim it did.  What it does do is lower the minimum difficulty, which helps low has rate miners have reduced variance.

The total p2pool network power is around 100TH/s.  If shares are every 30 seconds, then each share represents 3000TH (3000 * 10^12 hashes).

If all shares were the same difficulty, then that would be the effective share difficulty, in average hashes.

If you have 10GH/s, it will take on average 3.47 days to get a share.

If half of the miners switch to 10X the minimum difficulty, then they need 30,000TH to get a share.  Since they have half of the mining power, they have 50TH/s.  This means that one of them gets a share every (30000 / 50) = 600 seconds = 10 minutes.  The rest of the pool has the standard difficulty, so they get a share every 60 seconds.

This means that in 10 minutes, the miners will find 1 + 10 = 11 shares.  This works out as one share every 54 seconds.

The system will then lower the minimum difficulty by around 50%.  Now a 10GH/s miner will get a share around twice as fast as before (but worth half as much).  This gives those miners lower variance and the same average returns.

Quote
The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Smiley

Yeah, I know.

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kano
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December 19, 2013, 09:54:14 PM
 #7236

No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.

The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more - it doesn't affect the average.

I didn't claim it did.  What it does do is lower the minimum difficulty, which helps low has rate miners have reduced variance.

The total p2pool network power is around 100TH/s.  If shares are every 30 seconds, then each share represents 3000TH (3000 * 10^12 hashes).

If all shares were the same difficulty, then that would be the effective share difficulty, in average hashes.

If you have 10GH/s, it will take on average 3.47 days to get a share.

If half of the miners switch to 10X the minimum difficulty, then they need 30,000TH to get a share.  Since they have half of the mining power, they have 50TH/s.  This means that one of them gets a share every (30000 / 50) = 600 seconds = 10 minutes.  The rest of the pool has the standard difficulty, so they get a share every 60 seconds.

This means that in 10 minutes, the miners will find 1 + 10 = 11 shares.  This works out as one share every 54 seconds.

The system will then lower the minimum difficulty by around 50%.  Now a 10GH/s miner will get a share around twice as fast as before (but worth half as much).  This gives those miners lower variance and the same average returns.

Quote
The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Smiley

Yeah, I know.
No.

You are missing the issue of variance.

If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty.

So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
supermine
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December 19, 2013, 11:07:27 PM
 #7237

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?
About 1 millisecond.

Why did I not receive any then? (I am mining doge since 12 hours).

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December 19, 2013, 11:39:41 PM
 #7238

You are missing the issue of variance.
If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty.
So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time.
If the big miners are sending shares with higher difficulty they would be sending less shares per minute.
The variance for the big miners would be higher.
The minimum p2pool difficulty would drop.
All miners using the minimum difficulty would be sending more shares.
Their variance would decrease.
The total p2pool hash rate would stay the same.
The average income of the miners would stay the same.

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supermine
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December 19, 2013, 11:51:49 PM
 #7239

Why not state clearly in this thread that p2pool.org and p2pool.com are not affiliated with p2pool?

I added some clarification about p2pool.org to the first post. I think p2pool.com is pretty obviously not.

In other related news, using http://p2pool.info/ as the new homepage for P2Pool is on the horizon since I recently took up maintenance of it and as it's already well-known.
good, about time to handle with the guy @ p2pool.org

Can you help me? I've been mining into p2pool.org and did not get any coinage.

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organofcorti
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December 20, 2013, 01:34:55 AM
 #7240

.......
The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Smiley

Yeah, I know.
No.

You are missing the issue of variance.

If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty.

So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time.

kano, I think TierNolan is referring to the fact that some large miners can set their own difficulty much higher than the automatic amount set by the system. If I have that fact right, then this means that the average share difficulty is reduced for the remainder of miners.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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