Yogafan00000


December 18, 2013, 07:04:19 PM 

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?
Yes, I also meet the similar condition (look at the previous page). The client 13.4 does not function properly and nobody here tempts to explain why. Do not use it. Ok, I rolled back to my previous versions of p2pool and litecoin wallet. Interestingly enough, I decided to do a wallet backup before the rollback. Before I had a chance to backup, Litecoin wallet had crashed. When I restarted, the wallet was ~26 hours out of sync. When it resync'd, I only had mining payouts from my smaller preupgrade pool. No rewards from the upgraded pool. Before all of this, I was getting from 410 mining payouts per day on my larger pool. Something appears hinky with the new versions of Litecoin and p2pool.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)







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organofcorti
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December 19, 2013, 02:01:32 AM 

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time? In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
Yes, to the graph, sort of. I did a chart of estimated share difficulty assuming that all miners had the default difficulty estimation, but it was about 30  40 % too high as of last week, probably because larger miners are using higher difficulty shares. I don't know of a data based chart of average difficulty though.




Bismarckbkk


December 19, 2013, 05:25:31 AM 

To use a public node do I have to use my btc wallet as Username?
And how does payment work? Do I have to rely on the node host to manually transfer ?

1EPhcyv9GPcCwwbtVt3a3nwC1o4pn67bax



Krellan


December 19, 2013, 06:51:14 AM 

Here is the list Nice, thanks for making the list! Was wondering how much should be refunded, out of what I got out of mining that block (what little there was, I'm a smalltime miner). Just sent my refund now. I wonder how much he ended up getting back? Josh

1JUZr4TZ5zuB4WdEv4mrhZMaM7yttpJvLG



kano
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December 19, 2013, 01:10:55 PM 

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time? In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory) Yes (to the theory) Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate"  which clearly you don't understand what that is.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1 KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.isHelp keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks



TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 01:16:10 PM 

Just sent my refund now. I wonder how much he ended up getting back?
Well, the address has received: https://blockchain.info/address/1Jt35Ww1GjM9iGyTM8mAyBmCPPdPz7Z35A0.00910939 0.012 0.01034493 0.00782222 0.00833241 0.01636022 0.05 0.007 0.01211514 0.4 0.24946551 0.00078327 0.13003489 0.00785308 0.03835116 0.01000602 Total: 0.96957824 So, about 5% refunded, assuming all payments are refund payments.

1LxbG5cKXzTwZg9mjL3gaRE835uNQEteWF



TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 01:20:10 PM 

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time? In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory) Yes (to the theory) Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate"  which clearly you don't understand what that is. The number of shares is targeted at one every 30 seconds. If everyone used the minimum share difficulty, then it would be directly linked. However, if a large miner uses low difficulty, he would generate lots of shares. In order to help the pool, he sets his difficulty higher. This means he gets fewer shares, but each share has a higher weight. If that miner was 25% of the hashing power, and he contributed only 1% of the shares, then the pool would only generate 76% as many shares. The difficulty algorithm would retarget and reduce the minimum difficulty. This would push the share rate back to one every 30 seconds. If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates. This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.

1LxbG5cKXzTwZg9mjL3gaRE835uNQEteWF



Yogafan00000


December 19, 2013, 01:55:39 PM 

Is anyone seeing this? or is this just normal variance?
Yes, I also meet the similar condition (look at the previous page). The client 13.4 does not function properly and nobody here tempts to explain why. Do not use it. Ok, I rolled back to my previous versions of p2pool and litecoin wallet. Interestingly enough, I decided to do a wallet backup before the rollback. Before I had a chance to backup, Litecoin wallet had crashed. When I restarted, the wallet was ~26 hours out of sync. When it resync'd, I only had mining payouts from my smaller preupgrade pool. No rewards from the upgraded pool. Before all of this, I was getting from 410 mining payouts per day on my larger pool. Something appears hinky with the new versions of Litecoin and p2pool. I'm happy to report mining rewards are appearing again after the rollback to the previous versions. Shares: 4 (0 orphan, 1 dead) I'm figuring the upgrade cost me a 2 day's worth of Litecoins, which for me, is about 0.6LTC.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)



Yogafan00000


December 19, 2013, 02:18:38 PM 

Here is the list My portion of the refund sent.

1YogAFA... (oh, nevermind)



supermine


December 19, 2013, 03:19:50 PM 

Do you recomment using p2pool as only "pool" ? I'm having troubles with downtimes for certain coins with other pools.
I have 1Mh/s with Scrypt (2 fast GPUs), is it wise to connect to p2pool only?




kano
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December 19, 2013, 08:05:00 PM 

Is there any graph of share minimum difficulty over time? In theory, if larger miners started using lower difficulty shares, then the minimum share difficulty would increase.
No (to the theory) Yes (to the theory) Difficulty is based on the p2pool "hash rate"  which clearly you don't understand what that is. The number of shares is targeted at one every 30 seconds. If everyone used the minimum share difficulty, then it would be directly linked. However, if a large miner uses low difficulty, he would generate lots of shares. In order to help the pool, he sets his difficulty higher. This means he gets fewer shares, but each share has a higher weight. If that miner was 25% of the hashing power, and he contributed only 1% of the shares, then the pool would only generate 76% as many shares. The difficulty algorithm would retarget and reduce the minimum difficulty. This would push the share rate back to one every 30 seconds. If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates. This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone. No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out. The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more  it doesn't affect the average. The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it

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supermine


December 19, 2013, 08:34:14 PM 

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?




Krak


December 19, 2013, 08:43:15 PM 

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?
About 1 millisecond.

BTC: 1KrakenLFEFg33A4f6xpwgv3UUoxrLPuGn



Schleicher


December 19, 2013, 08:50:48 PM 

If lots of large miners set their difficulty target higher, then they put less load on the system and so the difficulty can be set lower to help miners with lower hash rates. This helps more people enter the pool, and so, helps everyone.
No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out. We are not talking about the lenght of the rounds here. It's about the number of shares per minute.

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TierNolan
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December 19, 2013, 09:04:40 PM 

No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.
The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more  it doesn't affect the average.
I didn't claim it did. What it does do is lower the minimum difficulty, which helps low has rate miners have reduced variance. The total p2pool network power is around 100TH/s. If shares are every 30 seconds, then each share represents 3000TH (3000 * 10^12 hashes). If all shares were the same difficulty, then that would be the effective share difficulty, in average hashes. If you have 10GH/s, it will take on average 3.47 days to get a share. If half of the miners switch to 10X the minimum difficulty, then they need 30,000TH to get a share. Since they have half of the mining power, they have 50TH/s. This means that one of them gets a share every (30000 / 50) = 600 seconds = 10 minutes. The rest of the pool has the standard difficulty, so they get a share every 60 seconds. This means that in 10 minutes, the miners will find 1 + 10 = 11 shares. This works out as one share every 54 seconds. The system will then lower the minimum difficulty by around 50%. Now a 10GH/s miner will get a share around twice as fast as before (but worth half as much). This gives those miners lower variance and the same average returns. The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Yeah, I know.

1LxbG5cKXzTwZg9mjL3gaRE835uNQEteWF



kano
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December 19, 2013, 09:54:14 PM 

No, coz if the large miner submits less share difficulty during one round, then they submit more share difficulty during some other round(s), which simply averages out.
The affect of a large miner using higher difficulty is to destabilise the share difficulty more  it doesn't affect the average.
I didn't claim it did. What it does do is lower the minimum difficulty, which helps low has rate miners have reduced variance. The total p2pool network power is around 100TH/s. If shares are every 30 seconds, then each share represents 3000TH (3000 * 10^12 hashes). If all shares were the same difficulty, then that would be the effective share difficulty, in average hashes. If you have 10GH/s, it will take on average 3.47 days to get a share. If half of the miners switch to 10X the minimum difficulty, then they need 30,000TH to get a share. Since they have half of the mining power, they have 50TH/s. This means that one of them gets a share every (30000 / 50) = 600 seconds = 10 minutes. The rest of the pool has the standard difficulty, so they get a share every 60 seconds. This means that in 10 minutes, the miners will find 1 + 10 = 11 shares. This works out as one share every 54 seconds. The system will then lower the minimum difficulty by around 50%. Now a 10GH/s miner will get a share around twice as fast as before (but worth half as much). This gives those miners lower variance and the same average returns. The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Yeah, I know. No. You are missing the issue of variance. If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty. So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time.

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supermine


December 19, 2013, 11:07:27 PM 

How many hours does it usually take the pool to pay out?
About 1 millisecond. Why did I not receive any then? (I am mining doge since 12 hours).




Schleicher


December 19, 2013, 11:39:41 PM 

You are missing the issue of variance. If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty. So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time.
If the big miners are sending shares with higher difficulty they would be sending less shares per minute. The variance for the big miners would be higher. The minimum p2pool difficulty would drop. All miners using the minimum difficulty would be sending more shares. Their variance would decrease. The total p2pool hash rate would stay the same. The average income of the miners would stay the same.

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supermine


December 19, 2013, 11:51:49 PM 

Why not state clearly in this thread that p2pool.org and p2pool.com are not affiliated with p2pool?
I added some clarification about p2pool.org to the first post. I think p2pool.com is pretty obviously not. In other related news, using http://p2pool.info/ as the new homepage for P2Pool is on the horizon since I recently took up maintenance of it and as it's already wellknown. good, about time to handle with the guy @ p2pool.org Can you help me? I've been mining into p2pool.org and did not get any coinage.




organofcorti
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December 20, 2013, 01:34:55 AM 

....... The well known bitcoin term here is called ... variance. Read up about it Yeah, I know. No. You are missing the issue of variance. If the difficulty drops it will also go up. It averages out to the same share difficulty. So statistically you still get the same number of shares over time. kano, I think TierNolan is referring to the fact that some large miners can set their own difficulty much higher than the automatic amount set by the system. If I have that fact right, then this means that the average share difficulty is reduced for the remainder of miners.




