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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2029670 times)
kgb2mining
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September 01, 2014, 04:12:03 AM
 #10501

Heh, I went for the "scorched earth" peer list approach to see what happens... Wink

I went to the p2pool node info page, sorted by country, exported to CSV, then some grep, awk, cut and echo'd the 84 U.S. nodes that resulted.  Currently it appears I've active peering connections with 60+ of them outbound (hovering between 62-64 average connected).

I'm of the mindset that it doesn't hurt to peer with as many nodes as you are able to reliably communicate with, since you want to get your shares out to the network as fast as possible, before everyone else.  If you are able to announce your share outbound quickly to as many nodes as you can, you might just win that race.  I could be completely off in my thinking, and hurting myself by having so many peers connected.  Time should tell tho I think, and if my efficiency suffers, then it might be better to approach it more methodically.
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September 01, 2014, 04:39:50 AM
 #10502

Heh, I went for the "scorched earth" peer list approach to see what happens... Wink

I went to the p2pool node info page, sorted by country, exported to CSV, then some grep, awk, cut and echo'd the 84 U.S. nodes that resulted.  Currently it appears I've active peering connections with 60+ of them outbound (hovering between 62-64 average connected).

I'm of the mindset that it doesn't hurt to peer with as many nodes as you are able to reliably communicate with, since you want to get your shares out to the network as fast as possible, before everyone else.  If you are able to announce your share outbound quickly to as many nodes as you can, you might just win that race.  I could be completely off in my thinking, and hurting myself by having so many peers connected.  Time should tell tho I think, and if my efficiency suffers, then it might be better to approach it more methodically.

Ok, this was my line of thinking. But you took it waaaay further. For that, I applaud you!

I'm beefing up my peers with a slightly different strategy: sort the node list by uptime and use the oldest nodes with reasonable latency. I figure that the oldest nodes will have the deepest roots into the p2pool network. Ok, I hope we just didn't ruin our competitive advantage here...
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September 01, 2014, 05:07:58 AM
 #10503

Ok, this was my line of thinking. But you took it waaaay further. For that, I applaud you!

I'm beefing up my peers with a slightly different strategy: sort the node list by uptime and use the oldest nodes with reasonable latency. I figure that the oldest nodes will have the deepest roots into the p2pool network. Ok, I hope we just didn't ruin our competitive advantage here...
This kind of approach rarely works. In fact, by simply decreasing peering within the relay network, relay times improved. Mostly, using this approach means your peaks (remember when a new block is found you get huge bandwidth peaks, even though amortized across even a second, you wont see all that much bandwidth) will be significantly higher, leading to strange things on the network, mostly increased packet loss. This means instead of getting a block pretty quick, you'll have to wait for the packet to timeout and get a resend. I would recommend finding only a handful of peers which are both geographically local and have high hashpower so you'll get blocks they found directly from the horse's mouth.

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hamburgerhelper
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September 01, 2014, 05:24:09 AM
 #10504

Ok, this was my line of thinking. But you took it waaaay further. For that, I applaud you!

I'm beefing up my peers with a slightly different strategy: sort the node list by uptime and use the oldest nodes with reasonable latency. I figure that the oldest nodes will have the deepest roots into the p2pool network. Ok, I hope we just didn't ruin our competitive advantage here...
This kind of approach rarely works. In fact, by simply decreasing peering within the relay network, relay times improved. Mostly, using this approach means your peaks (remember when a new block is found you get huge bandwidth peaks, even though amortized across even a second, you wont see all that much bandwidth) will be significantly higher, leading to strange things on the network, mostly increased packet loss. This means instead of getting a block pretty quick, you'll have to wait for the packet to timeout and get a resend. I would recommend finding only a handful of peers which are both geographically local and have high hashpower so you'll get blocks they found directly from the horse's mouth.

Matt, we're referring to p2pool peers, not bitcoin peers. I think that the p2pool blocks (the "shares") are very very small in comparison to bitcoin blocks. Since my node is the origin of the newly found share (the share is outbound to the rest of the p2pool network) it can only get out as fast as the maximum outbound bandwidth of my node - it seems to me that I want to try to hit that max (which in my case is 250 Mbps) so that there are many spokes to my hub (this seems to me to be hub/spoke topology in the first set of share transmissions, then it turns into a graph as the share gets retransmitted by my peer nodes).

Am I totally off base here? I'm not an expert on p2pool, I just read some stuff.
norgan
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September 01, 2014, 06:15:17 AM
 #10505

Hey all,

Been away on holidays and been lurking here to see what's going in. Just a quick Q, I have a miner on my node that has almost 100% DOA. IS that going to have any negative impacts on my node?

Miner, tech geek, operator of NorgzPool - Sydney Australia P2Pool Node creator of p2pool fancy front end

Tips: 1NorganBbymShTN2MMpfGzRYJF8mcPeXjv Exchange BTC locally in Australia or Donate to p2pool miners
Matt Corallo
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September 01, 2014, 06:15:39 AM
 #10506

Matt, we're referring to p2pool peers, not bitcoin peers. I think that the p2pool blocks (the "shares") are very very small in comparison to bitcoin blocks. Since my node is the origin of the newly found share (the share is outbound to the rest of the p2pool network) it can only get out as fast as the maximum outbound bandwidth of my node - it seems to me that I want to try to hit that max (which in my case is 250 Mbps) so that there are many spokes to my hub (this seems to me to be hub/spoke topology in the first set of share transmissions, then it turns into a graph as the share gets retransmitted by my peer nodes).

Am I totally off base here? I'm not an expert on p2pool, I just read some stuff.
Indeed, the relay network is a bit different. As many of its peers still use standard bitcoin p2p connections, full blocks get sent over the network, making peaks much higher. Still, you have to think about more than just your node. If you found the share, maxing your uplink isnt a bad idea, but if someone else found the share, you still want their share to propagate quickly (at least to you...), and for that you shouldn't fill their connection count. Of course you also have to account for bitcoind being on the same uplink (what if your share was a block?).

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Matt Corallo
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September 01, 2014, 06:17:01 AM
 #10507

In any case, this thread is moving on, I'm gonna unsubscribe. If anyone has any further relay network questions, dont hesitate to reach out via bitcoin-peering@my full name.com

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September 01, 2014, 06:49:22 AM
 #10508

In any case, this thread is moving on, I'm gonna unsubscribe. If anyone has any further relay network questions, dont hesitate to reach out via bitcoin-peering@my full name.com
You should create a own thread for it.

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PatMan
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September 01, 2014, 09:30:13 AM
 #10509

Check this out:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765128.msg8620903#msg8620903

Bitmain are going p2pool BIG time..... Grin Grin Grin

Seems we might just have found our new devs...........

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
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norgan
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September 01, 2014, 09:57:03 AM
 #10510

Check this out:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765128.msg8620903#msg8620903

Bitmain are going p2pool BIG time..... Grin Grin Grin

Seems we might just have found our new devs...........

This is pretty big for p2pool!

Miner, tech geek, operator of NorgzPool - Sydney Australia P2Pool Node creator of p2pool fancy front end

Tips: 1NorganBbymShTN2MMpfGzRYJF8mcPeXjv Exchange BTC locally in Australia or Donate to p2pool miners
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September 01, 2014, 10:24:51 AM
 #10511

Check this out:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765128.msg8620903#msg8620903

Bitmain are going p2pool BIG time..... Grin Grin Grin

Seems we might just have found our new devs...........

And now everyone starts thinking that maybe forrestv is working for bitmain on the new branch thats why he had disappeared?

PatMan
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September 01, 2014, 10:29:12 AM
 #10512

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

No.  Wink

I'm sure he's a little miffed though......"why oh why did I say what I said?  Cry"

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
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coinme.info
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September 01, 2014, 10:35:59 AM
 #10513

Check this out:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765128.msg8620903#msg8620903

Bitmain are going p2pool BIG time..... Grin Grin Grin

Seems we might just have found our new devs...........

This is pretty big for p2pool!

So they have S2s working with ANTPOOL, their new p2pool implementation.

5,000 AntMiner S2 being operated in the mining farm, and the hash rate of 4,000 AntMiner S2 were switched into HASHNEST.

We are investing significant resources into the development of p2pool mining protocol. At present, the hash rate of HASHNEST is mined from ANTPOOL, zero (0) fees, which will soon be contributed into p2pool. The development of contributed into p2pool is almost completed, and in the final testing and deploying. The code of ANTPOOL will be open sourced, and we are confident that you will be impressed by the outstanding contribution that BITMAIN put into p2pool protocol. We have a focused team who are developing the p2pool mining protocol, and the goal is to have 80% of the total network hash rate join p2pool within next 12 months. At that time, the whole Bitcoin community will never be anxious about the potential risks of the decentralization risk associated with the pool mining model now.


UMISOO, the first Operator on HASHNEST will provide 4PH/s hashing power, and plan to start the Round 1 subscription at Beijing Time 22:00pm, 2nd September, 2014 (UCT+8:00 Time Zone). Official subscribed flat price is 0.0016 BTC/Gh/s. Due to the anticipated high demands, each user is limited to a maximum of 1,000Gh/s. The Round 1 hash rate is generated by AntMiner S2 with the maintenance fee of $0.0032424/GH/s/Day.

Official subscribed flat price is 0.0016 BTC/Gh/s.

Each user is limited to a maximum of 1,000Gh/s.

Maintenance fee of $0.0032424/GH/s/Day.

So max buy in is 0.0016 BTC/Gh/s x 1,000Gh/s = 1.6BTC

Maintenance fee of $0.0032424/GH/s/Day = $3.2424 per day or $98.623 per month

So a hosted S2 in China for 1.6BTC & $3.24 per day including power etc.

No shippping, taxes, power costs etc.. sounds OK.

This part I'm confused about: At that time, the whole Bitcoin community will never be anxious about the potential risks of the decentralization risk associated with the pool mining model now.

If we all buy into running hosted miners how is the taking away the decentralization, which is why a lot of us are running our p2pool nodes?

follow me @CoinMeInfo for irregular random crypto insights...
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September 01, 2014, 10:37:59 AM
 #10514

On a side note this answers the fact why they switched S3 to preorders.
I don't know if this is good news or bad news - as this leaves only Spondoolies to offer hardware without running a farm at the same time.
Yes you will say that Bitmain is "renting" its power but since they come out and say that they officially have a farm we don't know how much extra power (maybe the S3s that didn't ship for 1.5 months) and of course they are merge mining.

So is this good for p2pool? Well nobody will care in 12 months time because it seems that we will all be forced to switch to cloud mining and others will keep the benefits of p2pool. We will just get payouts based on a calculator every week.

It seems that serious companies copied pbmining's ponzi scheme. But this time since they have their own hardware they will just remove the "ponzi" part and do it legit and we will all accept and be happy.

It seems mining for the average folks will be a thing of the past soon...

IYFTech
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September 01, 2014, 10:38:58 AM
 #10515

Check this out:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765128.msg8620903#msg8620903

Bitmain are going p2pool BIG time..... Grin Grin Grin

Seems we might just have found our new devs...........

And now everyone starts thinking that maybe forrestv is working for bitmain on the new branch thats why he had disappeared?


TBH, his infamous little rant was an invitation for someone to take up the reins - who better than a manufacturer the size of Bitmain who also have a desire for decentralization & an R&D department with limitless capability? This could be sweeeeeet  Smiley

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
coinme.info
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September 01, 2014, 10:41:12 AM
 #10516


It seems mining for the average folks will be a thing of the past soon...


I've felt this was on the cards for a while now and recent posts here about the viability of running our own pools have certainly had me thinking that it will all be DC style farms by the end of the year.

follow me @CoinMeInfo for irregular random crypto insights...
PatMan
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September 01, 2014, 10:45:37 AM
 #10517

I'm presuming that as their new p2pool code is open source, it will be configurable in the same way it is now, so anyone can still have their own node?.....Maybe their hosted miners can also be configured this way too, so that it can be pointed at any node the user wishes? Just speculating, of course......

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
Amazon UK BTC payment service - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301229.0 - with FREE delivery!
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September 01, 2014, 10:51:16 AM
 #10518

I'm presuming that as their new p2pool code is open source, it will be configurable in the same way it is now, so anyone can still have their own node?.....Maybe their hosted miners can also be configured this way too, so that it can be pointed at any node the user wishes? Just speculating, of course......

Yes no problem with that.
Thing is that in 12 months time - even in 3 months time a miner of 1TH/s might be useless to run at home/datacenter.
And where can I buy a new one from?
So in other words who needs an excellent working P2Pool when nobody will have miners at their homes making ROI.

The manufacturers are taking away the benefits we have with P2Pool with forcing cloud mining only (and by forcing I mean if they sell to us miners that will never ROI).

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September 01, 2014, 10:53:44 AM
 #10519

I'm presuming that as their new p2pool code is open source, it will be configurable in the same way it is now, so anyone can still have their own node?.....Maybe their hosted miners can also be configured this way too, so that it can be pointed at any node the user wishes? Just speculating, of course......

That would be nice but the latency would be bad if my miners were in China and my p2pool / ANTPOOL in New Zealand. Can't see how that would work.

They must have something planned to back up their claim "the whole Bitcoin community will never be anxious about the potential risks of the decentralization risk associated with the pool mining model now."

I feel the time frame is a bit tight to buy into Round 1, on the 2nd without knowing a bit more about how this will work.

Unless ANTPOOL allows us to continue running our p2pool nodes with local miners and we somehow can "top up" by buying GHs on the farm. Our hosted miners add to our shares irrespective of geo location.

But then we are just into a vicious spiral of continually spending our hard mined BTCs on more miners to make more BTCs to spend on more miners...

I'm starting to feel like a BTC mining junkie, never able to quite get ahead enough to get out of the game.

follow me @CoinMeInfo for irregular random crypto insights...
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September 01, 2014, 11:28:37 AM
 #10520


I'm starting to feel like a BTC mining junkie, never able to quite get ahead enough to get out of the game.


I know, I've felt like this for the last 2 years...... Cheesy Cheesy

After so many months of inactivity on the p2pool dev side, I'm just happy to see something happening at last. It's either this or nothing, & I think we're all pretty tired of nothing. Once the code is released, I'm sure some good will come of it....... Smiley

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
Amazon UK BTC payment service - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301229.0 - with FREE delivery!
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