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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2034752 times)
RoadStress
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August 22, 2014, 05:42:21 PM
 #10301

The following will be posted on the Eligius, BTCGuild and P2pool threads.

How willing are the pool operators to implement this? Is it hard? Any downsides? Please discuss

My position is that every periodic payment should be done using deterministic key pair generation.  Of course this includes all mining payouts.  The way this would work is that instead of generating a normal private/public key pair and giving the Bitcoin address of the public key to your mining pool for payout you would generate an extended private/public key pair and give the extended public key to the mining pool.

An extended public key contains within it the first public key and information on how to generate an entire sequence of public keys that correspond to the same key pair sequence that is generated by the extended private key.  So the mining pool would send your first payment to the first public key, your second payment to your second public key, your third payment to your third public key, etc.

Meanwhile your client can generate the first private key that corresponds to the first public key, the second private key that corresponds to the second public key, etc. so you can claim/spend the BTC when you are ready.

This way every single periodic payment can be sent to a unique public address.  Cool, right?

However, I do not know of a single pool that supports this payment mechanism.  I do not keep up with all the various mining pools having given up mining at the end of the GPU mining era myself.  So, if there is a pool that supports this please let me know.

All miners should demand this from every pool they use and only use pools that support this mechanism.

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August 22, 2014, 06:15:48 PM
 #10302

The following will be posted on the Eligius, BTCGuild and P2pool threads.

How willing are the pool operators to implement this? Is it hard? Any downsides? Please discuss

My position is that every periodic payment should be done using deterministic key pair generation.  Of course this includes all mining payouts.  The way this would work is that instead of generating a normal private/public key pair and giving the Bitcoin address of the public key to your mining pool for payout you would generate an extended private/public key pair and give the extended public key to the mining pool.

An extended public key contains within it the first public key and information on how to generate an entire sequence of public keys that correspond to the same key pair sequence that is generated by the extended private key.  So the mining pool would send your first payment to the first public key, your second payment to your second public key, your third payment to your third public key, etc.

Meanwhile your client can generate the first private key that corresponds to the first public key, the second private key that corresponds to the second public key, etc. so you can claim/spend the BTC when you are ready.

This way every single periodic payment can be sent to a unique public address.  Cool, right?

However, I do not know of a single pool that supports this payment mechanism.  I do not keep up with all the various mining pools having given up mining at the end of the GPU mining era myself.  So, if there is a pool that supports this please let me know.

All miners should demand this from every pool they use and only use pools that support this mechanism.

p2pool does not currently support this, and to be honest I'm not sure of what the benefit would be?

p2pool requires no registration, and pays directly from the generation TX when a block is found.

You simply use your payout address (which you can change at any time) as your username and your good to go...

jonnybravo0311
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August 22, 2014, 06:41:04 PM
 #10303

The following will be posted on the Eligius, BTCGuild and P2pool threads.

How willing are the pool operators to implement this? Is it hard? Any downsides? Please discuss

My position is that every periodic payment should be done using deterministic key pair generation.  Of course this includes all mining payouts.  The way this would work is that instead of generating a normal private/public key pair and giving the Bitcoin address of the public key to your mining pool for payout you would generate an extended private/public key pair and give the extended public key to the mining pool.

An extended public key contains within it the first public key and information on how to generate an entire sequence of public keys that correspond to the same key pair sequence that is generated by the extended private key.  So the mining pool would send your first payment to the first public key, your second payment to your second public key, your third payment to your third public key, etc.

Meanwhile your client can generate the first private key that corresponds to the first public key, the second private key that corresponds to the second public key, etc. so you can claim/spend the BTC when you are ready.

This way every single periodic payment can be sent to a unique public address.  Cool, right?

However, I do not know of a single pool that supports this payment mechanism.  I do not keep up with all the various mining pools having given up mining at the end of the GPU mining era myself.  So, if there is a pool that supports this please let me know.

All miners should demand this from every pool they use and only use pools that support this mechanism.

p2pool does not currently support this, and to be honest I'm not sure of what the benefit would be?

p2pool requires no registration, and pays directly from the generation TX when a block is found.

You simply use your payout address (which you can change at any time) as your username and your good to go...
That actually stems from a conversation BurtW and I are having here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750951.0.  The basic idea is that you would always generate new addresses for every transaction (payout from solving a block, etc) rather than using the same one over and over again.

How do coders come to be? 
Through many complicated rituals, virgin sacrifices and divine intervention Tongue

Or, you could take the path I did and go to school to get a degree in Computer Science.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
PatMan
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August 22, 2014, 08:14:50 PM
 #10304

Virgin sacrifice for me please, thanks!  Smiley

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
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August 22, 2014, 09:13:23 PM
 #10305

So... what's the "oldest" share you've ever seen accepted?  Mine just happened -
Code:
2014-08-22 17:09:29.097660 GOT SHARE! MYADDRESS f0f15274 prev 0feb87da age 154.44s
I've also seen shares less than 1 second get orphaned.

What's your oldest?

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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August 22, 2014, 10:01:22 PM
 #10306

Hello, a couple of quick noob questions about p2pool.

1. Do the instructions on page 1 still apply, I guess I mean the date is 2012 on those posts, have they been updated as required? Because I would need a user guide like that to be accurate.
2. I am currently using Slush pool, I earn somewhere between 0.015-0.02 a day on 550gh/s (since Aug. 19th at 4:30 I have earned 0.067xxx) approximately, does p2pool pay out the same as pooled mining like Slush and BTCGuild.
3 If the first page user guide doesn't apply any more, can you point me to a user guide for currently used software.
4. Are there fees on p2pool payouts, IIRC pooled mining groups like the 2 mentioned, the hosts get a piece of the pie from every user correct?

Thanks for your time and effort in advance for helping this noob understand.
If my 4th point is accurate, I would rather mine somewhere that the operator isn't getting rich from the users, but at the same time, I want to have the greatest earning potential, since buying this hardware isn't cheap that I am shortly investing in.

EDIT: I notice one user has earned .06 today on a single TH is this common or are things a bit higher than usual this last couple/few days?
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August 22, 2014, 10:05:49 PM
 #10307

Hello, a couple of quick noob questions about p2pool.

1. Do the instructions on page 1 still apply, I guess I mean the date is 2012 on those posts, have they been updated as required? Because I would need a user guide like that to be accurate.
2. I am currently using Slush pool, I earn somewhere between 0.015-0.02 a day on 550g/h (since Aug. 19th at 4:30 I have earned 0.067xxx) approximately, does p2pool pay out the same as pooled mining like Slush and BTCGuild.
3 If the first page user guide doesn't apply any more, can you point me to a user guide for currently used software.
4. Are there fees on p2pool payouts, IIRC pooled mining groups like the 2 mentioned, the hosts get a piece of the pie from every user correct?

Thanks for your time and effort in advance for helping this noob understand.
If my 4th point is accurate, I would rather mine somewhere that the operator isn't getting rich from the users, but at the same time, I want to have the greatest earning potential, since buying this hardware isn't cheap that I am shortly investing in.



Instructions still apply but take a look at the Github page for more details, it is fairly simple to set up:
https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool

You can expect variance to be a little higher than other larger pools but if you mine for long enough, you should get as much as you would get from any other pool.

However, you said you get at least 0.015BTC per day with your 550GH/s setup on Slush's pool. I find that hard to believe as my 1TH/s setup gets a little over 0.02BTC per day on Eligius and BTCGuild.
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August 22, 2014, 10:40:26 PM
 #10308

Hello, a couple of quick noob questions about p2pool.

1. Do the instructions on page 1 still apply, I guess I mean the date is 2012 on those posts, have they been updated as required? Because I would need a user guide like that to be accurate.
2. I am currently using Slush pool, I earn somewhere between 0.015-0.02 a day on 550g/h (since Aug. 19th at 4:30 I have earned 0.067xxx) approximately, does p2pool pay out the same as pooled mining like Slush and BTCGuild.
3 If the first page user guide doesn't apply any more, can you point me to a user guide for currently used software.
4. Are there fees on p2pool payouts, IIRC pooled mining groups like the 2 mentioned, the hosts get a piece of the pie from every user correct?

Thanks for your time and effort in advance for helping this noob understand.
If my 4th point is accurate, I would rather mine somewhere that the operator isn't getting rich from the users, but at the same time, I want to have the greatest earning potential, since buying this hardware isn't cheap that I am shortly investing in.



Instructions still apply but take a look at the Github page for more details, it is fairly simple to set up:
https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool

You can expect variance to be a little higher than other larger pools but if you mine for long enough, you should get as much as you would get from any other pool.

However, you said you get at least 0.015BTC per day with your 550GH/s setup on Slush's pool. I find that hard to believe as my 1TH/s setup gets a little over 0.02BTC per day on Eligius and BTCGuild.

Thanks for the link!


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August 22, 2014, 10:47:33 PM
 #10309

Can somebody see what I could possibly be doing wrong with my pool?

http://64.132.73.186:9332/static/

My hasrate is about 450GH/s

My a week ago I rebooted my pool and added a local 350Gh/s BF rig.
For the first 24/hr I got 3 dead shares.
So I rebooted the PC and it started working fine.
As you can see from the payout of the pool I was getting .009xxx a block.
Then the payout switched to just under .004xxx with no noticeable pool hashrate increase.
Now I noticed: "Payout if a block were found NOW: 0 BTC" and my last 2 blocks were dead also.

My config is running on a Windows 2008 R2 server that is on a private fiber line.
I setup pool based on the http://p2pool.in/ information.

What could I be missing?

Thanks

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August 23, 2014, 01:48:01 AM
 #10310

Can somebody see what I could possibly be doing wrong with my pool?

http://64.132.73.186:9332/static/

My hasrate is about 450GH/s

My a week ago I rebooted my pool and added a local 350Gh/s BF rig.
For the first 24/hr I got 3 dead shares.
So I rebooted the PC and it started working fine.
As you can see from the payout of the pool I was getting .009xxx a block.
Then the payout switched to just under .004xxx with no noticeable pool hashrate increase.
Now I noticed: "Payout if a block were found NOW: 0 BTC" and my last 2 blocks were dead also.

My config is running on a Windows 2008 R2 server that is on a private fiber line.
I setup pool based on the http://p2pool.in/ information.

What could I be missing?

Thanks

Hello looks fine to me.
If I am not mistaken, its giving you a payout for the next 24 hours and nothing now because you have not earned enough in your shares yet.....
You need to have a full 3 days to get to your full potential, this is how the p2pool works... you earn for your shares and since you just started you are at a point of nothing, but if you leave it you will see it it go up...
Others on here can explain it better to you but I do think thats the reason.....
hope that helps... Just watch it and you will see...
Also, if you stop your node, and we pop a few more blocks you will continue to get paid for the shares you earned...

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August 23, 2014, 01:49:12 AM
 #10311

Unfortunately I am a civil engineer , but not computer engineer ... I am very limited in regard to computing and coding ... I would say, at the "common user" level.


I am a fast learner though.  Can someone point me to the right direction or provide me a list of stuffs starting from scratch that I need to learn if I would wish to contribute to re-coding the p2pool software?


How do coders come to be? 

As mean as it sounds, there is no "I've no experience in coding but I'm a fast learner, I'll help you recode this complicated software" in Computer Science.

That's like saying "I love what this composer did, I would like to compose a reinterpretation of his work. I have never composed music but I'm a fast learner".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't teach yourself programming. I am just saying you will very likely not get far enough without formal education, or starting at a very early age.

Thanks for the advice  Wink

I understand what I was saying was bold. I know I will not be able to contribute much in the short term, but I am really interested and considering to take formal education on this direction, either part-time school, or buying books for self education.

I have 2 bachelor and 1 master degrees, in civil engineering and law (I know it's totally unrelated to computer ...) and am currently having enough rest to start another line of study ~~~ I have recently completed a short 40 hour course on webpage design, and have some basic idea of HTML5 and CSS3 ....

So ... for all those learnt coders out there, may I ask in what direction should I head to from scratch, if I wish to learn all about coding Huh Do I need something like BEng(Computer) Huh or are there easier stuffs like diploma or self educating books that I can read to acquire the skill??  Continuous learning is just my hobby  Cool
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August 23, 2014, 02:02:24 AM
 #10312

Can somebody see what I could possibly be doing wrong with my pool?

http://64.132.73.186:9332/static/

My hasrate is about 450GH/s

My a week ago I rebooted my pool and added a local 350Gh/s BF rig.
For the first 24/hr I got 3 dead shares.
So I rebooted the PC and it started working fine.
As you can see from the payout of the pool I was getting .009xxx a block.
Then the payout switched to just under .004xxx with no noticeable pool hashrate increase.
Now I noticed: "Payout if a block were found NOW: 0 BTC" and my last 2 blocks were dead also.

My config is running on a Windows 2008 R2 server that is on a private fiber line.
I setup pool based on the http://p2pool.in/ information.

What could I be missing?

Thanks

Hello looks fine to me.
If I am not mistaken, its giving you a payout for the next 24 hours and nothing now because you have not earned enough in your shares yet.....
You need to have a full 3 days to get to your full potential, this is how the p2pool works... you earn for your shares and since you just started you are at a point of nothing, but if you leave it you will see it it go up...
Others on here can explain it better to you but I do think thats the reason.....
hope that helps... Just watch it and you will see...
Also, if you stop your node, and we pop a few more blocks you will continue to get paid for the shares you earned...



OK so the "3 days" logic comes from this:

[source: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Payout logic

Each share contains a generation transaction that pays to the previous n shares, where n is the number of shares whose total work is equal to 3 times the average work required to solve a block, or 8640 (= 24 hours of shares), whichever is smaller. Payouts are weighted based on the amount of work each share took to solve, which is proportional to the p2pool difficulty at that time.

The block reward (currently 25BTC) and the transaction fees are combined and apportioned according to these rules:

A subsidy of 0.5% is sent to the node that solved the block in order to discourage not sharing solutions that qualify as a block. (A miner with the aim to harm others could withhold the block, thereby preventing anybody from getting paid. He can NOT redirect the payout to himself.) The remaining 99.5% is distributed evenly to miners based on work done recently.

In the event that a share qualifies as a block, this generation transaction is exposed to the Bitcoin network and takes effect, transferring each node its payout.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all, should 8640 shares = 3 days of shares instead??? is there something wrong with the Wiki???

With this amendment, I would translate the logic as follows in common language:

Whenever a block is found on p2pool, payout will be proportionally distributed to:
- shares generated during the past n hours, where n hours is the expected time to generate 3 blocks (i.e. if expected time to generate 1 block is 12 hours, n = 36 hours = 1.5 days)
- however the maximum value for n is 3 days, meaning if a share is over 3 days old, it's basically too old to generate any income Smiley

Is my understanding correct???

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August 23, 2014, 03:34:25 AM
 #10313

Thanks for the advice  Wink

I understand what I was saying was bold. I know I will not be able to contribute much in the short term, but I am really interested and considering to take formal education on this direction, either part-time school, or buying books for self education.

I have 2 bachelor and 1 master degrees, in civil engineering and law (I know it's totally unrelated to computer ...) and am currently having enough rest to start another line of study ~~~ I have recently completed a short 40 hour course on webpage design, and have some basic idea of HTML5 and CSS3 ....

So ... for all those learnt coders out there, may I ask in what direction should I head to from scratch, if I wish to learn all about coding Huh Do I need something like BEng(Computer) Huh or are there easier stuffs like diploma or self educating books that I can read to acquire the skill??  Continuous learning is just my hobby  Cool

If your desire, long term, is to contribute to p2pool; learning python is a good place to start. p2pool is written in python, and has its own version of the blockchain (share chain) and uses the same p2p design as the bitcoin network so studying bitcoind would help as well.

What others have said is true...

After a year or so you may be able to build a go-cart, but your not in the NASCAR league...

There is just way to much advanced technology flying around the bitcoin space for any individual to ever become an expert in it all. That being said, if you pick a focus area and learn how bitcoin works from a technical standpoint you would be able to contribute to p2pool (in its current state) if you knew python...

Here is the kid gloves version:

http://www.codecademy.com/en/tracks/python


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August 23, 2014, 04:37:31 AM
 #10314

cool thanks , i was thinking about learning python as a start as well!!! I will take your advice seriously  Wink
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August 23, 2014, 06:59:20 AM
 #10315

I received some 0.00028 BTC this morning in my P2Pool wallet ... not newly generated coins ... wondering did any one else on p2pool also receive that and what for?

There have been a couple donations the last week through the tool here: http://www.blisterpool.com/p2pdonate, it may have come from that?
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August 23, 2014, 11:36:13 AM
 #10316

Has anyone read about Matt Corallo's new "bitcoin backbone project" - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/08/a-bitcoin-backbone - would it make sense to connect bitcoind from a P2Pool set up to this low latency backbone.

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August 23, 2014, 02:26:52 PM
 #10317

Has anyone read about Matt Corallo's new "bitcoin backbone project" - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/08/a-bitcoin-backbone - would it make sense to connect bitcoind from a P2Pool set up to this low latency backbone.
Geez, it's like deja-vu:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg8442518#msg8442518

I'm not saying I'm developing code for this in p2pool... I'm simply saying what Matt did/is doing is similar to the thought I had brought in that post.
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August 23, 2014, 02:34:05 PM
 #10318

Has anyone read about Matt Corallo's new "bitcoin backbone project" - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/08/a-bitcoin-backbone - would it make sense to connect bitcoind from a P2Pool set up to this low latency backbone.

My take was that what Matt is doing is very cool and when blocks are several MB in size something like this or Gavin's alternative proposal for eliminating retransmission of transactions with every block will be important.

For me, each of my nodes has a connection which p2pool and bitcoind never come close to utilising. So I didn't think the block size was a particularly big deal at the moment from a speed perspective. Don't know if that's been actively researched.

If Matt's built it and it works then I see no reason not to connect to one of his nodes to gain the benefit of it.
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August 23, 2014, 08:23:48 PM
 #10319

Has anyone read about Matt Corallo's new "bitcoin backbone project" - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/08/a-bitcoin-backbone - would it make sense to connect bitcoind from a P2Pool set up to this low latency backbone.

My take was that what Matt is doing is very cool and when blocks are several MB in size something like this or Gavin's alternative proposal for eliminating retransmission of transactions with every block will be important.

For me, each of my nodes has a connection which p2pool and bitcoind never come close to utilising. So I didn't think the block size was a particularly big deal at the moment from a speed perspective. Don't know if that's been actively researched.

If Matt's built it and it works then I see no reason not to connect to one of his nodes to gain the benefit of it.

I'll be adding Coin Cadence to his east coast relay on the next restart.

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August 23, 2014, 09:34:45 PM
 #10320

Has anyone read about Matt Corallo's new "bitcoin backbone project" - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/08/a-bitcoin-backbone - would it make sense to connect bitcoind from a P2Pool set up to this low latency backbone.

My take was that what Matt is doing is very cool and when blocks are several MB in size something like this or Gavin's alternative proposal for eliminating retransmission of transactions with every block will be important.

For me, each of my nodes has a connection which p2pool and bitcoind never come close to utilising. So I didn't think the block size was a particularly big deal at the moment from a speed perspective. Don't know if that's been actively researched.

If Matt's built it and it works then I see no reason not to connect to one of his nodes to gain the benefit of it.

I'll be adding Coin Cadence to his east coast relay on the next restart.

If you are running bitcoin-qt, you don't need to wait for a restart - you can just type:

Code:
addnode public.us-east.relay.mattcorallo.com add

in the debug console.

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