(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[upup]

Right now Im using butterbot demo on this settings and it doing strange things
Sell for 400
Buy for 405
Sell for 406
Buy for 419

the dip last night got the better of the bot on a lot of settings.

So is that normal? I am talking about last (3rd) settings

[1714714809]

1714714809

[1714714809]

1714714809

[PuertoLibre]

Right now Im using butterbot demo on this settings and it doing strange things
Sell for 400
Buy for 405
Sell for 406
Buy for 419

the dip last night got the better of the bot on a lot of settings.

So is that normal? I am talking about last (3rd) settings

It is normal for butter to do that.

=======[Discount Code for Butter (10% off)]=========

https://butter-bot.com/?r=f5a17f5b

Use my referal code cause' im sooo cute!  



You'll get an extra month free, it's all on me!

[Gentle_bend]

Everyone else having problems with MtGox API at the moment (and last couple of hours)...?
Price info seems to be pulled correctly and graph is updated but yellow warning keeps saying that there is a problem with it. I'm trading in €, if it has any meaning.

Hi Gentle_bend,

I'm also using the MtGox API in combination with €/BTC trading, and I'm not having any issues at all.
Have you tried a refresh of your Chrome Extensions? (CTRL + 'R' in the Extensions menu)

Thanks for that MicroFi but despite reloading/restarting bot and browser I can still see the warning message and no info about my finances on Mt.Gox ...    On the other hand brief look at the logs doesn't indicate any problems (I'm not a coding person though).

I think I'll move my coins to BTC-e, just in case this rally(?) ends abruptly (will it ever?  )   
 

[fible1]

Hi all,

I'm a new user to Butter Bot, I've been running the demo for the last few days and reading the various conceptual arguments about bot profitability vs B&H etc... I'm now in the bizarre position of actually hoping for a BTC price crash so I can buy back low, assuming that the bot gets me out in time!
All in all, I think the bot is for me and I'm looking forward to being able to use it with LTC/USD also.

Just wanted to pipe in though that I too would love to see a 'don't sell at a loss' feature.
It seems to me that if you're able to specify that the bot shouldn't sell below it's last purchase price, then you're basically on 'B&H plus extra profits during market volatility'.

Sure, the price could tank. If you're lucky, the EMA settings you have got you out of BTC in time and you can buy back at a lower price and profit as the price climbs back up - but if not, you've basically switched to B&H on those coins until the market recovers.
Since people are arguing over whether B&H is a better strategy, and the suggestion of a split between the two seems sensible, this looks like an ideal scenario.

We're assuming of course that the overall trend is up. But if you're B&H, then you're assuming that already... and if the price never goes back up, well you'd have lost with B&H anyway!

Of course, if the price has really tanked and takes months to recover, you'll be losing out on all the profit the bot would be making on a lower priced, but still volatile market over that time - but if the feature's available then you ticks yer box and you takes yer chances.

If the feature is planned, I'd be interested to know how it'll work - If I find myself locked in to BTC at a higher price because the bot didn't spot the downtrend in time to get me out at a profit, my thinking is that I'll probably want to pump some more USD into the account and have the bot pick up some more BTC when it spots the next uptrend. I'd want the bot to remember that X amount of BTC can't be sold below $Y, but the rest is available for it to trade with.

From a development point of view, I can see how that would get complicated. You'd need to track the amount of BTC sold and at what price. Presumably that means the trades would have to be recorded to a database and have some kind of open / close position. A trade of X BTC opened at $Y. Current price below $Y so trades can't be used to 'close' X BTC until Y > the price of BTC at the point of the X trade.
Trades instead 'open' new records and close themselves until the $Y is reached.
The point being you wouldn't be able to just look at the last trade.......

I'm digressing - just wanted to say hi.

Hi Simiane ,
    We're really on the fence about this one; we have been back testing the "do not sell for loss" scenario and it has pretty bad results compared to EMA. Then again, if you guys want it we should accomodate your requests; but I kindda feel like a lot of people are gonna loose some cash if we put that feature into production.

Let me percolate on this for a bit, I'll get back to you .

Pablo.

[fible1]

Hi there - running the bot off my laptop entails that I keep it on and Chrome open as far as I understand. I am reading comments about a planned hosted solution - will this mean you'll provide a web interface to manage our bot settings on your server?

Hi BigB ,
  Yes, that's exactly what that means, when hosting is live, you will be able to run Butter from our servers through a web interface. I hope that answers your questions, please do not hesitate to let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

Hi Pablo,

I hope that you are considering all possible scenarios because from a security point of view this can be easily become a nightmare.

Nobody will be able to steal money/BTC, however the potential for wiping out accounts because of intentional misconfiguration of the BOT parameters is huge.

What would be the details on how to interact with the BOT in a hosted environment? RDC? Teamviewer? A web application?

We are looking at security to the best of our ability and as far as is reasonable for us to do so (I.E. if they NSA or CIA decide they really want to hack us well... ), but hosting will include very clear disclaimers regarding this issue. Nothing anyone can build is fool proof and although we are confident that hosting is not a decent target for an organized attack (because you can't steal any coins) and we are confident we can build an infrastructure to withstand most other situations, we really can't make any absolute guarantees, in computer security, no one can.

So to answer your question: We are taking every reasonable precaution but in the end it is a personal choice to use or not the service, we can't make absolute guarantees.

Please let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

[fible1]

Everyone else having problems with MtGox API at the moment (and last couple of hours)...?
Price info seems to be pulled correctly and graph is updated but yellow warning keeps saying that there is a problem with it. I'm trading in €, if it has any meaning.

Hi Gentle_bend,

I'm also using the MtGox API in combination with €/BTC trading, and I'm not having any issues at all.
Have you tried a refresh of your Chrome Extensions? (CTRL + 'R' in the Extensions menu)

Thanks for that MicroFi but despite reloading/restarting bot and browser I can still see the warning message and no info about my finances on Mt.Gox ...    On the other hand brief look at the logs doesn't indicate any problems (I'm not a coding person though).

I think I'll move my coins to BTC-e, just in case this rally(?) ends abruptly (will it ever?  )   
 

Gentle_Bend,
   Could you please drop me an email at Pablo@Butter-Bot.com? I will be happy to help you debug this issue :=).

I look forward to hearing from you.

Pablo.

[fluxist]

Hi I'm a newish butter-bot user. I've read in this thread advice against using any trade frequency below 30 minutes, but I'm using a 15 minute strategy that performs very well in backtesting. Is there any reason that this is a bad idea, despite the success in backtesting (over all intervals)?

[PuertoLibre]

Hi all,

I'm a new user to Butter Bot, I've been running the demo for the last few days and reading the various conceptual arguments about bot profitability vs B&H etc... I'm now in the bizarre position of actually hoping for a BTC price crash so I can buy back low, assuming that the bot gets me out in time!
All in all, I think the bot is for me and I'm looking forward to being able to use it with LTC/USD also.

Just wanted to pipe in though that I too would love to see a 'don't sell at a loss' feature.
It seems to me that if you're able to specify that the bot shouldn't sell below it's last purchase price, then you're basically on 'B&H plus extra profits during market volatility'.

Sure, the price could tank. If you're lucky, the EMA settings you have got you out of BTC in time and you can buy back at a lower price and profit as the price climbs back up - but if not, you've basically switched to B&H on those coins until the market recovers.
Since people are arguing over whether B&H is a better strategy, and the suggestion of a split between the two seems sensible, this looks like an ideal scenario.

We're assuming of course that the overall trend is up. But if you're B&H, then you're assuming that already... and if the price never goes back up, well you'd have lost with B&H anyway!

Of course, if the price has really tanked and takes months to recover, you'll be losing out on all the profit the bot would be making on a lower priced, but still volatile market over that time - but if the feature's available then you ticks yer box and you takes yer chances.

If the feature is planned, I'd be interested to know how it'll work - If I find myself locked in to BTC at a higher price because the bot didn't spot the downtrend in time to get me out at a profit, my thinking is that I'll probably want to pump some more USD into the account and have the bot pick up some more BTC when it spots the next uptrend. I'd want the bot to remember that X amount of BTC can't be sold below $Y, but the rest is available for it to trade with.

From a development point of view, I can see how that would get complicated. You'd need to track the amount of BTC sold and at what price. Presumably that means the trades would have to be recorded to a database and have some kind of open / close position. A trade of X BTC opened at $Y. Current price below $Y so trades can't be used to 'close' X BTC until Y > the price of BTC at the point of the X trade.
Trades instead 'open' new records and close themselves until the $Y is reached.
The point being you wouldn't be able to just look at the last trade.......

I'm digressing - just wanted to say hi.

Hi Simiane ,
    We're really on the fence about this one; we have been back testing the "do not sell for loss" scenario and it has pretty bad results compared to EMA. Then again, if you guys want it we should accomodate your requests; but I kindda feel like a lot of people are gonna loose some cash if we put that feature into production.

Let me percolate on this for a bit, I'll get back to you .

Pablo.

I have actually taken about two days of raw feed data and have tried to recreate B-Bot in excel. It is surprisingly very simple from what I can tell.

I am still working on simulating the exact behavior of B-Bot but it is coming out very close to the same. I was attempting to "bolt-on" the "do not sell on a loss". I am still having some issues with the fee deduction.

[boozezela]

Remote connection to a virtual desktop will most likely be overkill. I'm sure he's looking into hosting the bot as a web application.

They will have to rewrite it, since for now you need a browser. Someone asked for a console application and Pablo said that it was not possible at the moment.

I seem to have read that this has been taking some time to figure out. I have mine currently running on my home server iMac, no trades yet - possibly the uptrend?

Take a look and set the interval to 1h, 30m, 15m.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd

With this trend - and depending on the exchange - with trading set to 30/60minutes the bot should be doing buy&hold mostly.

[boozezela]

We are looking at security to the best of our ability and as far as is reasonable for us to do so (I.E. if they NSA or CIA decide they really want to hack us well... ), but hosting will include very clear disclaimers regarding this issue. Nothing anyone can build is fool proof and although we are confident that hosting is not a decent target for an organized attack (because you can't steal any coins) and we are confident we can build an infrastructure to withstand most other situations, we really can't make any absolute guarantees, in computer security, no one can.

So to answer your question: We are taking every reasonable precaution but in the end it is a personal choice to use or not the service, we can't make absolute guarantees.

Please let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

If you are implementing the bot as a web application, the best authentication you can put in front of it is Apache's.
In this way you don't have to worry too much about sanitising input at least when you login.

2FA after Apache would be nice as well.

As I have said I am not worried about people stealing BTC/money: the permissions granted to teh BOT by the API Key are already preventing this. I am worried about DOS scenarios, where accounts can be wiped out because of intentional misconfiguration (typically things like: buy high, sell low, reverse EMA, absurd TSL and so on).

If you are rewriting the BOT, consider the possibility of creating a console application that can be daemonised, configurable through a JSON configuration file and an added GUI on top of it for remote interaction.

In this way you could sell 3 versions of the BOT:
1-Classic (browser extension)
2-Standalone hosted
3-Standalone self-hosted

3 being the same of 2, just run using customer's resources will come without added efforts and may potentially save you some money in the long run (people pay for the subscription, you don't pay for the resources to run the BOT).

[Zubilica]

Well i have tried this bot for 1 week with the best settings i can find , and here are my results :

Started with 0.24099788 BTC
Ended up with 0.16222080 BTC

History is telling me I have +30% profit.

Best of luck.

[madcoin]

Well i have tried this bot for 1 week with the best settings i can find , and here are my results :

Started with 0.24099788 BTC
Ended up with 0.16222080 BTC

History is telling me I have +30% profit.

Best of luck.

I have similar experience..
IMHO profit should be calculated in BTC, not USD, or you should be able to chose do you want for profit to be displayed in USD or BTC.

[bigb159]

Remote connection to a virtual desktop will most likely be overkill. I'm sure he's looking into hosting the bot as a web application.

They will have to rewrite it, since for now you need a browser. Someone asked for a console application and Pablo said that it was not possible at the moment.

I seem to have read that this has been taking some time to figure out. I have mine currently running on my home server iMac, no trades yet - possibly the uptrend?

Take a look and set the interval to 1h, 30m, 15m.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd

With this trend - and depending on the exchange - with trading set to 30/60minutes the bot should be doing buy&hold mostly.

Thanks. Anyone know how to set EMA values on bitcoinwisdom? Apparently they are not changeable.

[Zubilica]

I may be interested again in this bot when it will add :

- Profit calculated in BTC
- BTCchina
- Never trade on loss (option if btc price drops x% sell)

[Zubilica]

Remote connection to a virtual desktop will most likely be overkill. I'm sure he's looking into hosting the bot as a web application.

They will have to rewrite it, since for now you need a browser. Someone asked for a console application and Pablo said that it was not possible at the moment.

I seem to have read that this has been taking some time to figure out. I have mine currently running on my home server iMac, no trades yet - possibly the uptrend?

Take a look and set the interval to 1h, 30m, 15m.
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd

With this trend - and depending on the exchange - with trading set to 30/60minutes the bot should be doing buy&hold mostly.

Thanks. Anyone know how to set EMA values on bitcoinwisdom? Apparently they are fixed.

PARAMETERS - in the menu

[bigb159]

Thank you, sir.

[velacreations]

- Never trade on loss (option if btc price drops x% sell)

I think this is a bad idea.  For example, the other day, during the dip, my bot sold at $412.  He then bought at $415.  The price is currently at $460.

He traded on a loss, but that was the right thing to do, get back in before the big rise.

Cutting losses is as important as trying to avoid them.

[Zubilica]

- Never trade on loss (option if btc price drops x% sell)

I think this is a bad idea.  For example, the other day, during the dip, my bot sold at $412.  He then bought at $415.  The price is currently at $460.

He traded on a loss, but that was the right thing to do, get back in before the big rise.

Cutting losses is as important as trying to avoid them.

I'm talking about 20-30% price drop. Cash out if for any reason price drop will be massive.

[velacreations]

I'm talking about 20-30% price drop. Cash out if for any reason price drop will be massive.

so you want your bot to panic sell?

but I was referring to the other thing, the "never trade on a loss"  some trades are losses, that's just the nature of the game.  Sometimes you have to take small losses to realize big gains.

[mvidetto]

I may be interested again in this bot when it will add :

- Profit calculated in BTC
- BTCchina
- Never trade on loss (option if btc price drops x% sell)

This is included, it's called stop loss...