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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 1056587 times)
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weisoq
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January 05, 2014, 07:04:39 PM
 #3401

Hi all,

I have been looking around for ideas to make bounties a bit more organized. A forum is good for open discussion but does not present proposed bounties in an organized fashion. I found bountysource.com. Heard of it?

I have a few ideas on how to tweek this model to make it work with devcoin, but I'd like to get peoples opinions on the feasibilty of actually making a website devoted to devcoin bounties before launch ideas. It would take serious man power to get it off the ground but might help make this opensource project even more open.

I was thinking about putting together a business plan if people show some interest.
That's an interesting site, didn't know anything about it. My longer-term business plan involved something like that (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=development_exchange) but actually directed at the opposite non-core devcoin bounties and work, although I agree a more structured way to organise bounties would be helpful.

Another couple of things I've come across that were also interesting re. Devcoin angle:
http://ejohn.org/blog/gittip-at-khan-academy/
payswarm (cached - seems to have been subsumed in past week by web-payments.org which looks more about bigger picture Open Transactions perspective, although not sure how 'open').
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dalamar96
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January 05, 2014, 07:12:03 PM
 #3402


That's an interesting site, didn't know anything about it. My longer-term business plan involved something like that (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=development_exchange) but actually directed at the opposite non-core devcoin bounties and work, although I agree a more structured way to organise bounties would be helpful.

Another couple of things I've come across that were also interesting re. Devcoin angle:
http://ejohn.org/blog/gittip-at-khan-academy/
payswarm (cached - seems to have been subsumed in past week by web-payments.org which looks more about bigger picture Open Transactions perspective, although not sure how 'open').


Nice, I am by no means capable of pulling something like that off on my own, but it is interesting!  I am going to keep moving forward with my vision of the bounty tracker for DevCoin as I see it, but I could see possibly integrating it with the exchange you mentioned as well. I will follow any developments you may have in that area! Great write-up too by the way!

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January 05, 2014, 07:51:32 PM
 #3403

My longer-term business plan involved something like that (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=development_exchange) but actually directed at the opposite non-core devcoin bounties and work, although I agree a more structured way to organise bounties would be helpful.

Very interesting to hear about that.

I agree that we need something that brings demand and supply together, so that things that are wanted are created, and things that are unneeded are shunned.
(ofcourse it's not that easy, because how do you know what is needed? Sometimes a solution is only visible in hindsight, for example you do a lot of research & development that could be considered wasted in hindsight, but was nonetheless necessary. Sometimes it's not a targeted process.)

People who visit devtome (or other devcoin "departments") should have an easy possibility to express what they want and need.
Also they should have a possibility to easily check if someone else has already started a project that fits their own specifications.
Something like kickstarter, but instead every registered user can give his one vote/share of the total 180 mill.
Also there should be a possibility to donate your own devcoins (not from the 90%)

There must also be a possibility to take pledged money back if a proposed project/development does for some reason die or selfdestruct.

So many thoughts...

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January 05, 2014, 08:09:07 PM
 #3404


Also there should be a possibility to donate your own devcoins (not from the 90%)

There must also be a possibility to take pledged money back if a proposed project/development does for some reason die or selfdestruct.

So many thoughts...

That is a great idea to add to the bounties as well! I may look into doing something like that once I am done with the "official bounty" thing. I will have to look into more of how things work on the back end to do something like that, but it is a really good idea. There are going to be things that people want to have done that won't get picked up by the official group, and they should be able to fund it themselves.

Chad

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January 05, 2014, 08:11:40 PM
 #3405


Also there should be a possibility to donate your own devcoins (not from the 90%)

There must also be a possibility to take pledged money back if a proposed project/development does for some reason die or selfdestruct.

So many thoughts...

That is a great idea to add to the bounties as well! I may look into doing something like that once I am done with the "official bounty" thing. I will have to look into more of how things work on the back end to do something like that, but it is a really good idea. There are going to be things that people want to have done that won't get picked up by the official group, and they should be able to fund it themselves.

Chad

Atleast every developer should have a score, a rating system that shows if they messed up in the past.
That's how a fair free market works. Every form of transparency is welcomed, aslong as it doesn't violate privacy.

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January 05, 2014, 08:13:58 PM
 #3406


Also there should be a possibility to donate your own devcoins (not from the 90%)

There must also be a possibility to take pledged money back if a proposed project/development does for some reason die or selfdestruct.

So many thoughts...

That is a great idea to add to the bounties as well! I may look into doing something like that once I am done with the "official bounty" thing. I will have to look into more of how things work on the back end to do something like that, but it is a really good idea. There are going to be things that people want to have done that won't get picked up by the official group, and they should be able to fund it themselves.

Chad

Forgive me for posting this plan here, but I don't have access to Devtome. I have been working on it over the last few hours and think it is relevant to the discussion. Let me know what you think

Devcoin Bounty Engine

Introduction

Devcoin’s model of paying out shares of coins for creative, technical and administrative work has a few barriers in its way if it wishes to extend beyond a few people that make up the current community. As of today, the process for suggesting what will be paid out consists of a member of the bitcointalk community writing on the forum with an idea for a proposed bounty. Other members may then discuss the idea and an Admin will finally validate the idea into a bounty by posting it on the Devtome bounty page. This process is cumbersome, needlessly complicated and does not allow for  a democratically popular vote. If we wish to move Devcoin forward, we need to have people trust that bounties are not being created out self interest but instead to expand public domain and open source material.

I propose creating a website that functions as platform for people to propose bounties and vote for which they want to see move forward.

Bounty Engine

From here forward, I shall refer to the this website as a bounty engine seeing as how it functions an engine of creation.

Model

This idea for a bounty engine is modeled after bountysource.com, a website that helps complete open-source projects by allowing people to propose bounties.

Summary

The Devcoin bounty engine will allow for bounties to be proposed by active users. These proposed bounties will then be voted on by the members of the community. If they pass they are allowed to be funded by members of the community directly as well as shares of Devcoin blocks. If a person is able to complete the project proposed in the bounty the community will then decide whether the project meets the specification original proposed. If so, the bounty is awarded.

Proposing a Bounty

Any active member can propose a bounty (see below in bounty funding for the definition of active member.) A bounty proposal must be no longer than 150 words and written with clear objectives. Once a bounty proposal is created the week long vetting process begins. Under the bounty proposal description is a “pro column” and a “con column”.  Members of the community can place comments in either the pro or the con column with their opinions. These comments get voted up or down, so that the most popular comment for and against the creation of this bounty are at the top of the respective columns. At the end of the week the most valuable comments for and against the proposed bounty should be visible at the top of the columns.


Voting

Any active member can vote. Voting is open for a week. For a bounty to pass, it needs a total of half the points equal to the number of active users at the time the voting starts. For example, if there are 100 active users at the time voting begins, you will need 50 points by the end of the week. A “yes vote” is equal to +5 points and a “no vote” is equal to -4 points. Therefore, at least 10% of active users need to participate to get a vote passed. If, for example, there were 100 active users and everyone were to vote, 50 yes and 50 no, the vote would just barely pass will 50 points. Once voting is complete and a proposal has passed it becomes a bounty.

Bounty Funding

Bounties are funded in two ways, community funding and share funding.

Community Funding

Signing up to be an active member requires paying at least 1000 Devcoins for 30 days in advance of it begin spent. In other words, to become an active member you must pay at least 1000 Devcoins every 30 days (or 12000 a year) with that money being spent on bounties throughout the next 30 day period. You can always pay more if you want to fund more projects, but 1000 Devcoins a month is the minimum.

When you put your initial 1000 Devcoins in an active user account you must choose at least one bounty to which you wish to contribute.

Every second 0.00037500 Devcoin is subtracted from your 1000 Devcoins and go into you bounty(s) of your choice. I’ll call this drip system funding. You can choose up to 6 projects you wish to fund simultaneously.

If you choose 1 it is for each bounty: 0.00037500
If you choose 2 it is for each bounty: 0.00018750
If you choose 3 it is for each bounty: 0.00012500
If you choose 4 it is for each bounty: 0.00009375
If you choose 5 it is for each bounty: 0.00007500
If you choose 6 it is for each bounty: 0.00006250

Over a 30 day period this is 972 Devcoins, with 28 Devcoins remaining for transaction fees.

The idea behind drip system funding is that the price of the bounty is incrementally increasing and allows for a more dynamic feel and encourage people to fund bounties as well as complete them.

If dripping is stopped for more than a week, meaning no one giving the bounty any money, the bounty is closed and the coins are spread to all open bounties. (I don’t for see this happening very often since it doesn’t take much to keep a bounty active. It would help bounties from remaining open for years without any activity.)

Share Funding

Beyond community fund, coins can also come from shares paid out by the Devcoin blockchain. A certain amount of funding can be extended to the Devcoin bounty engine much like it is to Devtome and split among open bounties. How this might be funded would take some more careful consideration.

Claiming a bounty

If you feel like you have fulfilled the requirements of the bounties you can submit your bounty claim. Once a bounty claim is submitted, admins verify that the bounty had been completed. (This could eventually also be done by voting or some other democratic method) The bounty is left open for a week after it has been completed to let other people submit bounty claims for second and third place. If for any reason the first bounty claim did not satisfy the bounty specifications, the bounty will be award to the runner up. The payout scheme for bounty claims submitted before the one week deadline are as follows:

1st and only legitimate claim: 100% of bounty
1st legitimate claim with runner up: 75% bounty, runner up: 25%
1st legitimate claim with runner up and third place: 70% bounty, runner up: 20%,  third place 10%

Projects that can be funded with this model

The Devcoin bounty engine would not just be limited to open source code, but allow for all sorts of creative projects to be funded. We can imagine a future where a lot of small scale public projects are funded through this format.

Why Devcoin?

It’s value is low enough that it can work mathematically.
It already has an existing bounty system in place that can be utilized to make this bounty engine work.

Conclusion

The preceding plan is just one way that this can all come together. Though many have put together ideas for ways bounties can be created, I hope that by being more specific I can move this discussion to the next stage.

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January 05, 2014, 08:17:42 PM
 #3407

...
Devcoin Bounty Engine
...

Looking good!  Should we assign a bounty to this to help kick things off?  e.g. 12 shares or so, depending on the difficulty
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January 05, 2014, 08:19:28 PM
 #3408

...
Devcoin Bounty Engine
...

Looking good!  Should we assign a bounty to this to help kick things off?  e.g. 12 shares or so, depending on the difficulty

You are more then welcome to for someone else to start one, the one I am working on I figure there wasn't a bounty for (out of love of the community I guess Smiley )  

ps. Prolly more just to see if I could do it Smiley

pps. Wow, I didn't see the proposal till I wrote this one! That is nice! I can incorporate some into it, but iti s mostly just a prototype site so nothing is open source so to speak (PHP and not ready for prime time) Love that proposal! Ok, back to work...

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January 05, 2014, 08:25:42 PM
 #3409



Atleast every developer should have a score, a rating system that shows if they messed up in the past.
That's how a fair free market works. Every form of transparency is welcomed, aslong as it doesn't violate privacy.

I am not sure that is how the bounties work here since they have to be added to the blockchain etc. The bounty admin and other admins are the ones that accept a bounty proposal and then decide who gets the bounty and how etc as they add them to the receiver files. If this is going to change or what not I am all for it, I just just writing a front end to help the admins at this time. It will have the ability for people who have a devtome account to propose and vote on proposed bounties, but that is about as dynamic as it is going to be for the first rev. (this is just for the project I am working on)

Chad

PS. I could be wrong on how bounties work too!

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January 05, 2014, 09:12:07 PM
 #3410



Atleast every developer should have a score, a rating system that shows if they messed up in the past.
That's how a fair free market works. Every form of transparency is welcomed, aslong as it doesn't violate privacy.

I am not sure that is how the bounties work here since they have to be added to the blockchain etc. The bounty admin and other admins are the ones that accept a bounty proposal and then decide who gets the bounty and how etc as they add them to the receiver files. If this is going to change or what not I am all for it, I just just writing a front end to help the admins at this time. It will have the ability for people who have a devtome account to propose and vote on proposed bounties, but that is about as dynamic as it is going to be for the first rev. (this is just for the project I am working on)

Chad

PS. I could be wrong on how bounties work too!

Yes, I was talking about how bounties and reviews should work in the future. It's an ongoing development. ;-)

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January 05, 2014, 09:29:20 PM
 #3411

Yes, I was talking about how bounties and reviews should work in the future. It's an ongoing development. ;-)

Ahh I didn't know it was still under development. In that case, I will continue working on the bounties the way they are (on the prototype site) and will help out where I can to further the development of bounties in the future.  I loved some of the proposal further up the forum here today. It would be nice to be automate a little more with the way they are given out. Like the bounty admin being able to fill out a form on the website and click a button to close a bounty and assign the share amount for the bounty to a user. The website should update the receiver files.

But that for now is beyond my understanding of the coin and how it works at this time! As I learn more, I will be able to help more! Also any input on the prototype site is welcome from anyone Smiley It is just a play site for me, but can be used by anyone (without warranty of course! Smiley )

Chad

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January 05, 2014, 09:31:22 PM
 #3412

Yes, I was talking about how bounties and reviews should work in the future. It's an ongoing development. ;-)

Ahh I didn't know it was still under development. In that case, I will continue working on the bounties the way they are (on the prototype site) and will help out where I can to further the development of bounties in the future.  I loved some of the proposal further up the forum here today. It would be nice to be automate a little more with the way they are given out. Like the bounty admin being able to fill out a form on the website and click a button to close a bounty and assign the share amount for the bounty to a user. The website should update the receiver files.

But that for now is beyond my understanding of the coin and how it works at this time! As I learn more, I will be able to help more! Also any input on the prototype site is welcome from anyone Smiley It is just a play site for me, but can be used by anyone (without warranty of course! Smiley )

Chad

lol, everything in devcoin, devtome, cryptocurrencies etc is under constant development.


Is the current version working and being used?

Yes.

Is it still under development?

Also yes.

How long will it stay under development?

Hopefully forever.

What will happen if development stops?

It's dead and abandoned.

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January 05, 2014, 09:34:23 PM
 #3413

LOL Good point. Well I will help so long as I can Smiley

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January 05, 2014, 09:35:59 PM
 #3414

LOL Good point. Well I will help so long as I can Smiley

So every new developer is absolutely welcomed and needed. (that's you, you are needed.)

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January 05, 2014, 09:37:43 PM
 #3415

LOL Good point. Well I will help so long as I can Smiley

So every new developer is absolutely welcomed and needed. (that's you, you are needed.)

awww I'm needed! Smiley Heh, I will help where I can, though with work and home I can't promise anything Smiley  Besides I have a lot to learn about how these currencies work. Especially the back end and how everything talks to each other and what not!

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January 05, 2014, 09:55:34 PM
 #3416

Forgive me for posting this plan here, but I don't have access to Devtome. I have been working on it over the last few hours and think it is relevant to the discussion. Let me know what you think

Devcoin Bounty Engine...
Loving the ideas. I once wrote a bounty for a bounty site (official devcoin bounties, not a free market exchange). I didn't submit it because I wasn't sure enough was in place, or priority was high enough. As it's now subject of discussion here's what I wrote with a bit added which sort of gives my own opinion on certain aspects:

Quote
Devcoin is about funding people and projects that create open source content. This requires time and effort as well as ideas and interest, which means putting visibility, know-how and incentive together in one place. This doesn’t exist yet for Devcoin outside the thread and devtome so we need to create it, to increase real-world people and project investment.

1. The web site should be attractive with its own domain that includes ‘dev’ in it.
2. It should start as just a site that records bounties. Later it would be expanded to have categories with tagged bounties, so people could search by category. Bounties would automatically be added each round.
3. A rating system would be developed eventually to increase objectivity and quality in vetting categories of particular expertise.
4. If the site works well there may be the possibility in time to integrate other projects, support or third party opportunities that involve more than this, but for now it needs to be a simple way of recording and tracking official Devcoin bounties only.
5. Maintenance and further development of the site would be funded through regular generation payments in the same way as devtome.
6. Content management should be kept fairly simple to allow non-expert user edits. Actual admin of changing content should be open to reasonable discussion and consensus so it can always keep rolling with new manual content when necessary. There will also be smaller bounties for any additional admins needed, particularly those who can demonstrate knowledge in fields related to available bounties and rating.

Some thoughts since then:

1) With devcoin.org and a forum coming, they do perhaps already offer a venue where basic bounties could be hosted/linked?
2) Actually starting the process with integral vetting requires people and skillsets - perhaps quite a few - certainly in providing any meaningful appraisal of code/tech prior to end product. Without it there could be a simple skew towards ideas rather than doable ideas because average users (like me) might not appreciate what's involved in fulfilling the bounty?
3) A means of automating that system (paying dvc) is an interesting idea. Would that be added to the recipients final bounty payment, or are you referring to different systems?
4) Tying that in to having a devtome account is another thing I hadn't even considered, not sure yet about relative pros/cons of that, because there's a potential risk that the people voting will be the least attuned to to the bounty skillset?
5) Less complicated is better, at least to begin with?

dalamar96: Bounties are paid out from generation devcoin like all other direct devcoin earnings.
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January 05, 2014, 10:18:09 PM
 #3417


Some thoughts since then:

1) With devcoin.org and a forum coming, they do perhaps already offer a venue where basic bounties could be hosted/linked?
2) Actually starting the process with integral vetting requires people and skillsets - perhaps quite a few - certainly in providing any meaningful appraisal of code/tech prior to end product. Without it there could be a simple skew towards ideas rather than doable ideas because average users (like me) might not appreciate what's involved in fulfilling the bounty?
3) A means of automating that system (paying dvc) is an interesting idea. Would that be added to the recipients final bounty payment, or are you referring to different systems?
4) Tying that in to having a devtome account is another thing I hadn't even considered, not sure yet about relative pros/cons of that, because there's a potential risk that the people voting will be the least attuned to to the bounty skillset?
5) Less complicated is better, at least to begin with?

dalamar96: Bounties are paid out from generation devcoin like all other direct devcoin earnings.

Alright, I guess my thoughts count now since I am needed Smiley (I'm just messing with ya!)

1) Yes start simple, add functionality (that is what I am working towards right now)
2) The automated DVC I was talking about was how to add a receiver line automatically once an admin approves a bounty payout.
3) The input will be simple for proposing, I figured the vetting and voting will take care of itself through comments and the voting I am putting into place
4) I am not sure about the pros/cons yet for having to have a devtome account, I am just doing that because I don't want to have to make people sign up for the site I am creating, I am just using usernames that are in the account files.
5) The system I am creating could be moved to any site that is running on a LAMP server. It can be edited to work on IIS or WAMP if need be. But, it is hard coded at this time for my server and database layout. It is a prototype after all!

I wasn't looking to get a bounty for what I was working on and I don't want to take away from anyone else that is working on things like I have on the site. Everyone is welcome to use what is there and make suggestions and what not, but I can't warranty any of it! At least not yet! 

Chad

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January 06, 2014, 12:18:00 AM
 #3418

Alright, I guess my thoughts count now since I am needed Smiley (I'm just messing with ya!)

1) Yes start simple, add functionality (that is what I am working towards right now)
2) The automated DVC I was talking about was how to add a receiver line automatically once an admin approves a bounty payout.
3) The input will be simple for proposing, I figured the vetting and voting will take care of itself through comments and the voting I am putting into place
4) I am not sure about the pros/cons yet for having to have a devtome account, I am just doing that because I don't want to have to make people sign up for the site I am creating, I am just using usernames that are in the account files.
5) The system I am creating could be moved to any site that is running on a LAMP server. It can be edited to work on IIS or WAMP if need be. But, it is hard coded at this time for my server and database layout. It is a prototype after all!

I wasn't looking to get a bounty for what I was working on and I don't want to take away from anyone else that is working on things like I have on the site. Everyone is welcome to use what is there and make suggestions and what not, but I can't warranty any of it! At least not yet!  

Chad
Think I might be getting confused between different ideas, but in general I reckon all constructive ideas are good - putting them in practice even better. I don't have the skills to build these things so I go for shares/monetary contribution and then using them. If you build a site and it's implemented then I'll contribute to any bounty or give you something myself regardless, I see that as the essence of the way devcoin should work. All thoughts count, that's the point I was making about how input into any system would work - i.e. making sure it's as inclusive as possible.
dalamar96
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January 06, 2014, 12:24:20 AM
 #3419


Think I might be getting confused between different ideas, but in general I reckon all constructive ideas are good - putting them in practice even better. I don't have the skills to build these things so I go for shares/monetary contribution and then using them. If you build a site and it's implemented then I'll contribute to any bounty or give you something myself regardless, I see that as the essence of the way devcoin should work. All thoughts count, that's the point I was making about how input into any system would work - i.e. making sure it's as inclusive as possible.

Hmmm that's possible. I was talking about the bounty site like on the page in my signature. It isn't done by any means, but that is where the ideas were coming from. I thought you were talking about the same thing. As far as the shares and the monetary thing, they are nice, but that isn't what I am going for at the moment Smiley I am just trying to learn all I can about the system.

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January 06, 2014, 12:38:31 AM
 #3420

Hi all,

I have been looking around for ideas to make bounties a bit more organized. A forum is good for open discussion but does not present proposed bounties in an organized fashion. I found bountysource.com. Heard of it?

I have a few ideas on how to tweek this model to make it work with devcoin, but I'd like to get peoples opinions on the feasibilty of actually making a website devoted to devcoin bounties before launch ideas. It would take serious man power to get it off the ground but might help make this opensource project even more open.

I was thinking about putting together a business plan if people show some interest.

I have something in the works for this at the moment. Just thought I would let you know Smiley


That's great. Do you mean that you have a plan in the works that you are writing or actually already putting together the site?


Well, I have started coding, though it isn't going to be as intricate as the "bountysource.com" site. I am mostly putting it together so the bounty admins have a place to track it  and everyone can propose and vote on proposed bounties. Since the admin have to approve a bounty and they have to do things on the back end once a bounty is completed.  I am sure it is going to go through a bunch of iterations, but still I don't foresee it being anything like Bountysource.com since it doesn't quite work that way with devcoin bounties.  I may have a first rev up today, not sure yet Smiley  Will be at http://madrabbitproductions.com/devcoin/

That site would look great if it featured a rodeo version of one of the Devcoin logos. Could be a big D with arms and legs (and a cowboy hat of course) trying to lasso himself up some Devcoins.

Sadly, I have no ability to make the logo I just mentioned.

Bittzy78

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