[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[kalgecin]

There's no support for walletnotify? Where can i push a patch for it?

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[georgem]

please reread my last post, I added what kind of combinations could exist, to create more incentives for different kind of artists.

I think this would give more possibilites for an artist to participate, and don't measure an artists worth as if he were a code developper

Okay I will go back and read again.

But meanwhile, I so far still do tend to think that we should be about art development, specifically about free open source art development, rather than about art per se. Art per se includes non free non open source art, and its development is often non free non open source development.

We should in my current opinion as developed (hee hee) so far be about the free open source development of free open source art.

There are plenty of places where people can submit and maybe even be rewarded for non free non open source art development and even the actual pieces of art developed by such processes/means.

-MarkM-

Since art is not a science as is not being "developped", we must use a different approach. See my 8 ways of participating

Ofcourse, with code and text you can be completely open source in every aspect.  (well, not necessarily in point 3 I make, or do devtome writers and developers explain their creation process? No they don't!  )

That's great and I admire that.

But we must differentiate when it comes to art, to create incentives for participation, and not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

over time, participants of level 1 -7 will strive to become level 8. That's my goal.

[markm]

The 8 ways of participating, I like the sound of that... shaolin grandmaster approves of that.

I am still cogitating / meditating upon your schema, but right off the bat it strikes me that a lot of the explanations parts of it seem like condidates for Devtome, by having the explanations in written form.

The written form could be a transcript of course if the artist did not write the explanation down but, rather, spoke it.

It could even be a screenplay / script if the artist did not speak it in words that alone convey the meaning but, rather, used gestures, actual performance of actions / demonstrations so that the initial capture of the material was by means of one or more videocameras / movie-cameras.

Thus even just an artist's explanation of what they consider to be art or how they go about producing and/or developing art could be cast into various artforms (videos, sound recordings, scripts, screenplays, transcripts, wiki articles...)

But this idea of explaining does seem good, because it is maybe more directly related to the actual development of art than maybe a bunch of instances of the products of such development and production might be.

-MarkM-

[matt608]

Okay I will go back and read again.

But meanwhile, I so far still do tend to think that we should be about art development, specifically about free open source art development, rather than about art per se. Art per se includes non free non open source art, and its development is often non free non open source development.

We should in my current opinion as developed (hee hee) so far be about the free open source development of free open source art.

There are plenty of places where people can submit and maybe even be rewarded for non free non open source art development and even the actual pieces of art developed by such processes/means.

-MarkM-

Doesn't allowing artists to earn DVC by giving away their work on Devtome/devmusic encourage the development of art?  That should be the main thing, rewarding developers (in this case, artists) with DVC who give away their work on Devtome.   

A song isn't a like a piece of software where there are going to be lots of people wanting to make a copy and make changes requiring a commented code.  Some genres such as solo guitar pieces might have people wanting to be able to play them, so extra DVC could be offered for score/tab (though as we've mentioned there are problems verifying a musical score is 'accurate').  A very small number of people might be interested in making a remix of a song, in which case the files with all the different sound layers would be a useful option to allow for uploading (though will take up a lot of disk space, so might not be worth it).

The whole idea of uploading noises from instruments to somehow make it easier for people to develop music and not actually being about rewarding the development of actual music is a bit weird.  Why not keep it simple and reward music creators/producers (i.e. tracks you can listen to) with DVC and have a bunch of admins and users paid a small amount of DVC to listen to the uploaded tracks and rate them. 

[georgem]

The 8 ways of participating, I like the sound of that... shaolin grandmaster approves of that.

I am still cogitating / meditating upon your schema, but right off the bat it strikes me that a lot of the explanations parts of it seem like condidates for Devtome, by having the explanations in written form.

Exactly.

So we would have a collaboration that interconnects devtome (textonly) with devmusic (music media) from the getgo.

+1

[markm]

Since art is not a science as is not being "developped", we must use a different approach. See my 8 ways of participating

Of course art is being developed and has been since way back long ago, probably further back even than when cave dwellers developed the art and/or science of developing pigments from minerals and plants and maybe even from components of animals and so on, and developed techniques for representing, using such tools, recognisable things such as animals, hunters, maybe even actual hunts...

At some point techniques such as perspective and texture and such were also developed, such that over time the degree of three-dimensionality that could be, or was, conveyed by flat images was increased.

And so on. Nowadays we have developed entire new media and entire new techniques.

-MarkM-

[jasinlee]

There's no support for walletnotify? Where can i push a patch for it?

Markm, there an official git link for this?

[markm]

A song isn't a like a piece of software where there are going to be lots of people wanting to make a copy and make changes requiring a commented code.

Not to you it isn't maybe, and I am not really keen at all on the lots of people part because, for one thing, creativity is often not regarded as something that crowds, mobs, masses are considered the ideal of, rather we often see that total loners producing stuff the masses might even try to suppress and certainly do not like are later appreciated for their creativity.

But to me, it is absolutely the case that in order for it to be truly useful for development it needs to be much more than just a teaser that forces me to have to go back to some black box in order to adapt it for use in some particular project or re-cast it in some different character's voice or adjust it in accordance with the fact that the singer turns out, in some particular player's playing of a scenario in which the song is used, to have a bad cold or sore throat or whatever thus sounds different than that same singer does when you bring a bottle of cough-syrup and have the singer drink some of the syrup before singing the song and so on and so on and so on.

There are entire universes being developed, in which singers of many races and species and genders need songs to sing...

-MarkM-

[markm]

There's no support for walletnotify? Where can i push a patch for it?

Markm, there an official git link for this?

My version of the code is supposedly not to be the "current" version going forward, so any pushes / patches / etc ought to go to the currently in development version, though I am not even sure who is developing that or even if there is only one candate version for that. (Weren't at least two diferent "new versions" being worked on by different people or teams?)

-MarkM-

[georgem]

Since art is not a science as is not being "developped", we must use a different approach. See my 8 ways of participating

Of course art is being developed and has been since way back long ago, probably further back even than when cave dwellers developed the art and/or science of developing pigments from minerals and plants and maybe even from components of animals and so on, and developed techniques for representing, using such tools, recognisable things such as animals, hunters, maybe even actual hunts...

At some point techniques such as perspective and texture and such were also developed, such that over time the degree of three-dimensionality that could be, or was, conveyed by flat images was increased.

And so on. Nowadays we have developed entire new media and entire new techniques.

-MarkM-

Yes, but I would differentiate further, in that a developer formulates a goal before he goes ahead and develops it.


I have never formulated a goal when creating music. I just sit on the keyboard and am always surprised what emerges after a while.

THAT is the key difference.

Ofcourse I can formulate a general direction like today my mood is for classical music, I want to use harpsichord and strings... etc... let's see where it leads me.

Music is "played" not developed.

I play while creating music.

[jasinlee]

There's no support for walletnotify? Where can i push a patch for it?

Markm, there an official git link for this?

My version of the code is supposedly not to be the "current" version going forward, so any pushes / patches / etc ought to go to the currently in development version, though I am not even sure who is developing that or even if there is only one candate version for that. (Weren't at least two diferent "new versions" being worked on by different people or teams?)

-MarkM-

I think your right, maybe unthinkingbit needs to assign an official branch. Well when he pushes the walletnotify to the git, which version do you think it best to push to currently?

[markm]

Yes, but I would differentiate further, in that a developer formulates a goal before he goes ahead and develops it.


I have never formulated a goal when creating music. I just sit on the keyboard and am always surprised what emerges after a while.

THAT is the key difference.

Ofcourse I can formulate a general direction like today my mood is for classical music, I want to use harpsichord and strings... etc... let's see where it leads me.

Music is "played" not developed.

I play while creating music.

One major goal of mine is to enable the development of playing.

I want people to be able to play games in which characters such as bards can exist and in which a bard is a type of character that is typically known for his her or it's ability to play and/or sing and/or recite (perform) songs and/or poems.

So development of the ability to play is important for the development of the kind of immersive environments/games I am trying to develop.

In order to develop free open source such games, I need free open source play-techniques and methods for playing free open source songs or instruments, so that, for example, a bard can be portrayed playing an instrument and/or singing a song.

The number of people who want the ability to create such games is not as important or driving really, even if you insist on being able to appeal to a huge audience in order to get lots of advertising revenue, because even if only one person in the entire world produces such games, and thus only one person in the entire world perceives the importance of the ability to tinker with the underlying details that make a particular song sound like the singer has a sore throat, or sound like the singer is female, or sound like the singer is pronouncing the lyrics with a particular accent - pronouncing it the way a certain region's inhabitants pronounce that word for example - and so on the end result game the development of which is enabled by having full access to as much as possible of the underlying mechanisms and instructions might end up being massively appealing to the masses...

-MarkM-

[georgem]

One major goal of mine is to enable the development of playing.

I want people to be able to play games in which characters such as bards can exist and in which a bard is a type of character that is typically known for his her or it's ability to play and/or sing and/or recite (perform) songs and/or poems.

So development of the ability to play is important for the development of the kind of immersive environments/games I am trying to develop.

In order to develop free open source such games, I need free open source play-techniques and methods for playing free open source songs or instruments, so that, for example, a bard can be portrayed playing an instrument and/or singing a song.

The number of people who want the ability to create such games is not as important or driving really, even if you insist that being able to appeal to a huge audience in order to get lots of advertising revenue, because even if only one person in the entire world produces such games, and thus only one person in the entire world perceives the importance of the ability to tinker with the underlying details that make a particular song sound like the singer has a sore throat, or sound like the singer is female, or sound like the singer is pronouncing the lyrics with a particular accent - pronouncing it the way a certain region's inhabitants pronounce that word for example - and so on the end result game the development of which is enabled by having full access to as much as possible of the underlying mechanisms and instructions might end up being massively appealing to the masses...

-MarkM-

I admire your dream of having immersive emergent worlds, created by playing with artificial cognitive processes. It is the next thing to revolutionize the way we create anything, not just entertaining things like games, music, etc...

But I advice you to not use ambitions of future goals (that you can't even prove are possible) to make a decision of how devcoin developers should develop in the here and now.

We should tell developers how to share, not how to develop.

We owe them this much respect.

[georgem]

Let's first create a portal where artists openly share and talk about their creation process.

Then you can have your A.I. departement (devcog? ) go ahead and try to figure out the underlying principles of the cognitive processes behind the artists creations.

 

I would subscribe to that.

[markm]

I admire your dream of having immersive emergent worlds, created by playing with artificial cognitive processes. It is the next thing to revolutionize the way we create anything, not just entertaining things like games, music, etc...

But I advice you to not use ambitions of future goals (that you can't even prove are possible) to make a decision of how devcoin developers should develop in the here and now.

We should tell developers how to share, not how to develop.

We owe them this much respect.

That is why right now the resulting game(s) are mostly textual.

I can convey stuff in text that I lack the rendering tools necessary to render in three dimensional or even two dimensional imagery.

From a game development perspective the primary use of artists and musicians is as rendering tools, and even then not as run-time rendering tools that actually render the sound and imagery as the player plays the game but, rather, as rendering tools used to render stuff ahead of time, at build/compile time.

Except, of course, in the case of artists and musicians who are skilled at playing rendering-instruments / rendering-tools / modelling-tools etc...

-MarkM-

[smeagol]

Is there a way I can get the current block count without running the daemon?

I'm not sure if I can run the daemon on namecheap hosting (not a vps) and I need the block count for a round countdown clock.

[eeh]

http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin

Is that what you need?

[smeagol]

http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin

Is that what you need?

Yeah, but when I do echo file_get_contents(http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin/q/getblockcount);
nothing appears

[weisoq]

http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin

Is that what you need?

Yeah, but when I do echo file_get_contents(http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin/q/getblockcount);
nothing appears

Use this explorer: http://d.evco.in/abe/chain/DeVCoin

[smeagol]

http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin

Is that what you need?

Yeah, but when I do echo file_get_contents(http://darkgamex.ch:2751/chain/DevCoin/q/getblockcount);
nothing appears

Use this explorer: http://d.evco.in/abe/chain/DeVCoin

That explorer is behind about 100 blocks or so