[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[novacadian]

which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC

Erm, you pissed them off :/

This asset is being delisted.

I am sorry but DVC is being delisted for a variety of reasons and will remain delisted
Thank you,
Chuck
Altilly.com

I contacted Altilly support and they were unwilling to provide a remedy to the delisting.
We will need to find another exchange.
ctya

Hopefully we still have DevSTEEM. I started a buying round for the first time! Yes! We are buying Devcoins for SBD. Learn more here: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-2-buy-round-1

- develCuy

The STEEM/DVC pairing sounds like a good one for the moment; particularily when moving forward with #DevSTEEM. It was nice to see the interest the buying/selling round generated. 👍😎

- Nova

[kickback]

What's the end game here?What is Devcoin to be used for regards purchasing power??

[kickback]

It can't possible cost much to host devcoin.

Sadly, some DVC investors might think that $10 monthly is a ton, but really that is all it takes to run a devcoin node ^{(if you don't run any other nodes already, else it's actually much cheaper)}. (I know because I set one up. Besides, https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dvc/ was running it for $10 monthly, but apparently you guys traded all your USDs for DVCs)

Tradeogre seems like a decent exchange with ltc markets. Might be a good option to apply there.

Or perhaps it is time we stop being lazy and just look into Stellar (and Horizon)?

How do we buy this coin on Stellar please?Where else to buy some?

[markm]

What's the end game here?What is Devcoin to be used for regards purchasing power??

What was INTENDED to be a major use-case goes like so:

1) Many large intergalactic mining operations are financed in DeVCoin-denominated debt;

2) They typically send shipments ranging from about 5,000,000 DEUterium to about 15,000,000 DEUterium per fleet, sending one to 6 or so fleets at a time,
to General Mining Corp or General Retirement Corp depots;

3) They either request that General Mining Corp or General Retirement Funds pay them in DeVCoins, to their debt account care of General Financial Corp (whose loans are denominated in DeVCoins) OR they get paid in GMC by GMC or GRF by GRF and go convert it into DevCoins themselves and pay GFC against their debt using DeVCoins.

BECAUSE YOU-LOT kept throwing away all the DeVCoins the above rapidly became UNTENABLE.



THE FOLLOWING CALCULATIONS SHOW WHY:

1) Look up the price General Mining Corp and General Retirement Funds pay per 1000 DEUterium on the table at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/deuterium.html

2) You should see there that up until Sat Aug 24 17:11:35 ADT 2019 DEUterium was worth over 25,000 DeVCoins for 1000 DEUterium, that is, over 25 DeVCoins per DEUterium. (And a heck of a lot more if you look even farther back in time on that table...)

3) It is only now that everyone has Deathstars, able to carry a million units per Deathstar, that they send such small fleets, they used to wait until they could fill up a fleet of 1000 large cargo ships, a total of over 24 million units, basically 25 million units minus the DEUterium burned as fuel on the journey. So it used to be you'd see someone send six fleets of 24 million units of DEUterium per fleet. Things are better now, Deathstars have Gravitics, they burn massively less fuel per unit of cargo than large cargo ships do so folks send a fleet with even as little as four million units of DEUterium sometimes lately. But consider the case of six fleets of 24 million units each, that is 144 million DeVCoins they would need if they were to pay their debt to GFC using DeVCoins.

4) How many of you have ever sold even one million DeVCoins into play, let alone 144 million, so that some mining operation could use it to pay a payment on their debt? Or to put that another way, how much DeVCoin is actually available for GMC or GFC to buy or for mining operations to buy using the GMC or GRF scrip they are paid for their DEUterium by GMC or GRF? If we look at the HZDVC Issuing Account on HORIZON (Account ID NHZ-M3QP-ZXJ2-FCR7-2A4WK), the account that issues HZDVC tokens onto the platform so players can use them you can see it has still in stock, that is to say, un-issued, 99'777'389'030 out of the 100'000'000'000 that it created ahead of time ready to issue as DeVCoins to represent with the tokens come into play. 100'000'000'000 minus the 99'777'389'030 remaining tells us that only 222'610'970 (I am using ' instead of comma since that is what you see in the HORIZON client) HZDVC have actually been issued!

Thus, basically it just has not made any sense to figure that miners and/or GMC and GRF are going to be able to actually buy DeVCoins with which to pay their DeVCoin-denominated debts.

Therefore GFC basically has had to just use the Latest Rates include-file to look up an "equivalency" in whatever currency people choose to use to pay their debt.

Resulting in the loss of a massive amount of potential trading volume on the GMC/DVC and GRF/DVC markets or, in the HORIZON case, on the use of the GMC/HZ or GRF/HZ market to get HZ then the HZ/DVC market to get DVC with the HZ gotten by converting GRF or GRC.

So you see, by throwing away your DeVCoins or even just hoarding them, you have for literally years now been cheating yourselves out of a massive volume of potential trading, and allowing all that massive amount of DeVCoin-denominated-debt payment cashflow to be forced to not pass through DeVCoin markets on its way to the lender being paid.



TO FIX THIS maybe it would REALLY HELP to have lots of batches of 144,000,000 or so DeVCoins available to buy with HZ on the HORIZON platform, and probably batches of similar size on the GMC/DVC and GRF/DVC markets on the STELLAR platform...


-MarkM-


P.S. Think farther, too: if we make it so they CAN reasonably use actual DeVCoins to pay their debts, all the owners or shareholders or executives etc of such operations, and really in theory even their employees who see "the big picture", whether they live in a MUD or in a Crossfire-RPG server, have an implicit reason to favour accepting DeVCoin for things normally priced in MGOLD (MUD gold) or AMBerium/Jade/Platinum/Gold coins (Crossfire RPG's currency, though also they have fixed-value diamonds, emeralds, sapphires and Rubies also that can be converted back and forth to and from those coins at their banks.)

[markm]

How do we buy this coin on Stellar please?Where else to buy some?

Look at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/dvc/ to see that the asset's name is DVC and the account you need to trust for it is GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5

Once you have created a "trust line" for that asset name as issued by that account, you should be able to go into your trading pairs selection screen or tab or option or whatever your client uses and choose pairs, initially probably XLM/DVC or DVC/XLM (both are the same actual market, it just changes which side is the sell side and which side is the buy side depending on which asset you select as which side of the market).

You can also look up other assets similarly, listed at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/ if you want to trade DVC/IXC, DVC/I0C, DVC/XGG or whatever takes your fancy.

And of course you can pick basically any asset you have a trust line for to offer against any other asset you have a trust line for, thus make up whole new markets like DVC versus tht company over there's bitcoin tokens, or against that there other company's bitcoin tokens, or that other other company's U.S. Dollar tokens etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Where else includes the HORIZON platform, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2197968.0

-MarkM-

[kickback]

What was INTENDED to be a major use-case goes like so:

1) Many large intergalactic mining operations are financed in DeVCoin-denominated debt;

2) They typically send shipments ranging from about 5,000,000 DEUterium to about 15,000,000 DEUterium per fleet, sending one to 6 or so fleets at a time,
to General Mining Corp or General Retirement Corp depots;

3) They either request that General Mining Corp or General Retirement Funds pay them in DeVCoins, to their debt account care of General Financial Corp (whose loans are denominated in DeVCoins) OR they get paid in GMC by GMC or GRF by GRF and go convert it into DevCoins themselves and pay GFC against their debt using DeVCoins.

So it is basically intended as some unit of currency for a virtual reality type game/world if I am correct.

4) How many of you have ever sold even one million DeVCoins into play, let alone 144 million

Well after looking around I have noticed sell orders on freiexchange but nobody is buying even at 1 satoshi.

[kickback]

Look at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/dvc/ to see that the asset's name is DVC and the account you need to trust for it is GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5

Once you have created a "trust line" for that asset name as issued by that account, you should be able to go into your trading pairs selection screen or tab or option or whatever your client uses and choose pairs, initially probably XLM/DVC or DVC/XLM (both are the same actual market, it just changes which side is the sell side and which side is the buy side depending on which asset you select as which side of the market).

I will look into it and thanks for the explanation.

[novacadian]

What's the end game here?What is Devcoin to be used for regards purchasing power??

For me the hidden value of DVC is the secure blockchain itself. As we see more and more utility uses for crypto tokens the present price does not reflect the potential value in my opinion. That said, there needs to be purchasing power given to DVC to see a rise in value. For my little part there is a dApp that is under development which will charge for its service in DVC and/or STEEM. My dApp does not require one be registered on the STEEM blockchain, yet it shall use the STEEM blockchain in its usage, 

It is, also, my hope to set up a system like STEEM's SPS; more of which can be found at the following link...

https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/hf21-sps-and-eip-explained

With such a system in place we will hopefully see more development which should add value to DVC.

My personal end game is to keep the project and blockchain alive and well as value is added through dApp development.

MarkM has made a lot of development in the gaming area to make good use of DVC. It should not be mistaken as the only potential usage.

- Nova

[markm]

4) How many of you have ever sold even one million DeVCoins into play, let alone 144 million

Well after looking around I have noticed sell orders on freiexchange but nobody is buying even at 1 satoshi.

Frankly by "into play" I meant on a platform that is more a part of the game, at least certainly a platform where they can sell their GMC or GRF to buy the DVC and better a platform where they can trade all the "Big Seven" galactic currencies and the other common currencies such as other merged mined ones (IXC, I0C, CLC, XGG) and hopefully the so called "Sci-Fi themed" coins albeit I have not set up the Klingon Empire Darsek (KED) yet on HORIZON and STELLAR since I myself have none to tokenize. Still, I have so far set up a bunch of them like United Federation Credits (UFC), Gold Pressed Latinum (classic, GPL and newfangled, GPL2), SPICE, Cubits (QBT) and United SciFi coin (USF).

We lost massive amounts of BiTCoin (BTC) by trying to include third party exchanges, basically they ran away with all our BTC, that is a huge part of why so many of our coins are so "worthless", all the buy-side BTC got stolen by exchanges or, according to the exchanges, by hackers who hacked the exchanges.

So now when I say into play, I mean onto our platforms we actually use in the game, currently HORIZON and STELLAR.

-MarkM-

[MarketMagic]

I have a few million DVC I will try to get onto the stellar platform once I figure out how this is done.

[kickback]

I tried setting up a wallet on stellarport but it redirects me to some KYC link?I am not sure if this is the only option for stellar but I won't use anything that asks me for personal information or documents after equifax and and all the other hacks that have happened lately.I don't want my passport or licence being sold on some hacker black market somewhere so thats a non starter.

[markm]

Don't use a third party website mode wallet.

Check Stellar.org, it has links to lots of wallets, including web-type ones so that if you really prefer a browser interface you can run one of the web-style ones yourself and visit it with your browser. (At least that is what I figured they meant. Though I guess theoretically they might just be talking about third party websites, I didn't actually check, sorry.)

There are also ones for desktop and for phones.

I should warn everyone though that the desktop one(s) I tried turn out, like HORIZON also turns out, to have some arbitrary limit to how many open orders (offers) of yours it will display and since cancel button for each offer is beside its listing on that list once you get a few hundred offers, or maybe its a hundred offers, I didn't count exactly how many it supports before it won't display more, you cannot cancel orders placed after that many.

So you might want to make a separate wallet (account) for each trading pair or something like that if you want to do market-making, as the imit is on total orders it seems, not even just orders of that trading-pair like (I think) is the case with HORIZON.

If anyone finds a wallet that does not mind handling thousands of orders please please let me know!

-MarkM-

[develCuy]

which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC

Erm, you pissed them off :/

This asset is being delisted.

I am sorry but DVC is being delisted for a variety of reasons and will remain delisted
Thank you,
Chuck
Altilly.com

I contacted Altilly support and they were unwilling to provide a remedy to the delisting.
We will need to find another exchange.
ctya

Hopefully we still have DevSTEEM. I started a buying round for the first time! Yes! We are buying Devcoins for SBD. Learn more here: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-2-buy-round-1

- develCuy

The STEEM/DVC pairing sounds like a good one for the moment; particularily when moving forward with #DevSTEEM. It was nice to see the interest the buying/selling round generated. 👍😎

- Nova

And the first DevSTEEM's buy of DVC for SBD was completed https://steemd.com/tx/5544460083f322724e7f61f1463f14d4a391ec4c

Thanks for your support Traxo!

Btw, we still have some funds to keep buying DVC https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-2-buy-round-1

- develCuy

[ctya]

Strange move from altilly to delist without any reasoning. It can't possible cost much to host devcoin.

Tradeogre seems like a decent exchange with ltc markets. Might be a good option to apply there.

I contacted Tradeogre and waiting for a response.

[develCuy]

File custodian of http://devcoinpool.btc-music.com wanted! You are the only custodian left to sync round 97. Please send me a private message ASAP.

PS: Sorry for the public heads up! This is our last option.

- develCuy

[ctya]

I am working on the reinstatement of service at https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dvc/

https://node1.devcoin.cloud is also a DeVCoin block explorer and receiver host.

Having independently-operated block explorers is beneficial to all.

[ctya]

I would like to propose a new bounty for a Merge Mining pool.

One of the assets of the DeVCoin project is the combination of a long blockchain and a high difficulty.
That combination makes DeVCoin more secure.

Years ago, mmpool.org would payout in several different alt coins while mining the "long game" target of the next BTC block.
This improved the hash rate of DVC while mining all of the coins at once.  It also encourages low-hash-rate miners to participate in BTC mining because these miners will receive alt coins as a payout while they wait for the pool to find a BTC block.

Additionally, exchanges want a coin project to have a mining pool.
This encourages the exchanges to consider the project as stable.

DeVCoin is currently mined.  We can verify that by seeing the block times and difficulty.  It is high and it is stable.
However, we need a public pool where anyone can rent a rig from miningrigrentals or nicehash and turn BTC/LTC/ETH into hashrate and get a payout in DVC or BTC

~~~
So, my proposal is this:

The Pool must be able to payout in BTC when a BTC block is mined by the pool.
The Pool must be able to payout in DVC when a DVC block is mined by the pool.
The Pool must not keep more than 5% of the block rewards as administration fees.
The Pool must accept "anonymous" miners (no registration required)

Someone is elected to establish donation addresses in LTC and BTC for the bounty
The first Merge Mining pool receives all of these donations + 25 ongoing round shares as long as the pool is operating to help with the payout and encourage ongoing use.
Any additional pools that meet these requirements can receive 10 ongoing round shares.

~~~


ctya

[Qtera]

I am working on the reinstatement of service at https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dvc/

https://node1.devcoin.cloud is also a DeVCoin block explorer and receiver host.

Having independently-operated block explorers is beneficial to all.

Great work Ctya!  By the way, no answer from coinwarz.com about their DVC exchange rate chart page yet? 

What a bummer about altilly.com, but sometimes that happens. I'm glad that this time I had the chance to take my DVC out of an exchange. Thanks for the heads up!

[markm]

I used to run a merged mining pool using that distributed mining thing that used a blockchain itself to co-ordinate miners, I forget its name offhand.

It was not hard to set up but had built-in accounting ony for the mined bitcoins, sending them automatically to the miners as they were mined (using multi-send to all the miners inside the actual mining transaction I think).

P2Pool might have been its name? I think so.

The problem I ended up having with it was once the Neptune miners arrived it emerged that they were not able to use their entire massive hashrate effectively with P2Pool.

I suspect this was because P2Pool was written in a script language, maybe python or perl or something like that.

Basically the hashrate the pool was showing for my Neptunes was way low.

I directed my Neptune miners at MMPool and it showed a hash value much closer to the hash value the mining machines themselves thought they were putting out.

MMPool was written in Golang or Go or some other similarly "obscure" (or even more obscure) language. It could handle those kinds of hash-rates.

The thing is, mining hardware has advanced quite a lot since the Neptune.

I expect modern mining hardware to be even harder for P2Pool to deal with, at least when merging several coins.

Although I do recall having noticed a pool called P2Pool around recently so maybe they actually use that software and maybe it works fine for straight-out mining of one coin or maybe even can manage to merge a few coins if those coins also have high difficulty and long block times. As it is possible the problem I was seeing was partly to do with merging seven or more coins and also partly to do with how many of them have faster block times than bitcoin does.

MMPool also did the accounting of the various merged coins. So maybe a good idea would be to get hold of the guy who wrote it and see if he can be convinced to merge more coins in it again or to release the source-code as free open source.

What I would suggest though for homegrown projects would be to use P2Pool like I did, to merge all the merged mined coins at once, but use lower powered mining hardware than Neptunes.

Or maybe we could try splitting the power of each Neptune-or-better machine between several such pools.

I tried things like leaving GeistGeld (due to its six second block time) out of the merge but still nothing I did seemed able to get P2Pool to recognise the full power of my Neptune miners.

If we could get the code of MMpool released though we might be onto something...

We should definitely merged-mine not only DeVCoin but also, if possible. IXCoin, I0Coin, GRouPcoin, CoiLedCoin, and GeistGeld (XGG), heck maybe also Huntercoin or whatever it calls itself nowadays.

By the way, the Latest Rates and related tables have been updated.


-MarkM-

[realdantreccia]

I used to run a merged mining pool using that distributed mining thing that used a blockchain itself to co-ordinate miners, I forget its name offhand.

It was not hard to set up but had built-in accounting ony for the mined bitcoins, sending them automatically to the miners as they were mined (using multi-send to all the miners inside the actual mining transaction I think).

P2Pool might have been its name? I think so.

The problem I ended up having with it was once the Neptune miners arrived it emerged that they were not able to use their entire massive hashrate effectively with P2Pool.

I suspect this was because P2Pool was written in a script language, maybe python or perl or something like that.

Basically the hashrate the pool was showing for my Neptunes was way low.

I directed my Neptune miners at MMPool and it showed a hash value much closer to the hash value the mining machines themselves thought they were putting out.

MMPool was written in Golang or Go or some other similarly "obscure" (or even more obscure) language. It could handle those kinds of hash-rates.

The thing is, mining hardware has advanced quite a lot since the Neptune.

I expect modern mining hardware to be even harder for P2Pool to deal with, at least when merging several coins.

Although I do recall having noticed a pool called P2Pool around recently so maybe they actually use that software and maybe it works fine for straight-out mining of one coin or maybe even can manage to merge a few coins if those coins also have high difficulty and long block times. As it is possible the problem I was seeing was partly to do with merging seven or more coins and also partly to do with how many of them have faster block times than bitcoin does.

MMPool also did the accounting of the various merged coins. So maybe a good idea would be to get hold of the guy who wrote it and see if he can be convinced to merge more coins in it again or to release the source-code as free open source.

What I would suggest though for homegrown projects would be to use P2Pool like I did, to merge all the merged mined coins at once, but use lower powered mining hardware than Neptunes.

Or maybe we could try splitting the power of each Neptune-or-better machine between several such pools.

I tried things like leaving GeistGeld (due to its six second block time) out of the merge but still nothing I did seemed able to get P2Pool to recognise the full power of my Neptune miners.

If we could get the code of MMpool released though we might be onto something...

We should definitely merged-mine not only DeVCoin but also, if possible. IXCoin, I0Coin, GRouPcoin, CoiLedCoin, and GeistGeld (XGG), heck maybe also Huntercoin or whatever it calls itself nowadays.

By the way, the Latest Rates and related tables have been updated.


-MarkM-

Reading an older entry here (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool) it seems that the use of the Neptunes would just cause it to be more difficult to get payouts. Payouts are difficulty adj to find a new block every 30 seconds. Basic understanding here but in essence, its to encourage fair play? I mine coins that are easy on the CPU but not necessarily an advantage for ASIC.

Sounds a lot like what you were describing with its blockchain being a "share-chain" which interacts with BTC's chain but really is something of its own as well for the miners.

EDIT: Might wanna ask Greg Maxwell about P2Pool as well
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/File:P2pool_chain.png