[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[markm]

develCuy : Please provide a full accounting of the share list to this thread so that we might all understand the current state and comment on the policy going forward.

 -- ctya

Ctya, the accounting of shares of current round can be found here https://github.com/devcoin/accounting/blob/master/account_96.csv (github will gently render the CSV file in your browser). The accounting file for round 97 (the upcoming round) is here: https://github.com/devcoin/accounting/blob/master/account_97.csv. There you can see this: "Devtome Earnings: 0 Shares", it means that nobody is going receive earnings for writing content in Devtome, starting from round 97.

- develCuy

Are you sure that merely adjusting that shares to devtome total suffices to zero everyone's devtome-contributor shares?

I have generated and uploaded so maybe you should check that the results are as you intended.

-MarkM-

[markm]

According to the new Latest Rates, which I ran using 19 billion as the number of "shares" to divide it into "as if" 19 billion devcoins were in existence (being as hold I was told last time around that almost 19 billion had been minted, and it makes sense to allow for a few more than there actually are to allow for more being minted before we generate a new "Latest Rates"), the total worth of DVC Holdings now is 31,792,998,122.57928719 DeVCoins, that is, over 31 billion DeVCoins.

However, it also says that this amounts to 1.67331569 DeVCoins per share, whereas I had kind of expected it ought logically be saying that it is 1.00000000 DeVCoins per share.

The shareworth is read from the company file at the start of the calculations though, so likely we will not see the new value being used for this "company" until next time around.

So I am thinking it must be using the previous (old) DeVCoin value for computing that DeVCoins per share value.

But if that is the case, I am worried it might also be using the old value for other parts of the calculations.

It does look, from things like the price of DEUterium in DeVCoins, that DeVCoin has gone up about 1.67331569 times its previous value.

So maybe I just have to expect that each time the value per share is going to be shown based on the previous value of DeVCoins.

Other than that little weirdness, which does not show up in the online pages since we do not publish the DVC Holdings account as if it were a Corp or Company (in the Company Values listing), everything seems to have worked.

Oh and all of this still is not yet counting XGG as a reserve currency toward the value of the things that hold it.

A lot of the increase in value is due to the acquisition of more shares of GFC; it used to only hold 461 shares of GFC, now it holds 5000 of them. It also gained a lot of GMC and some of some other things since the last time we ran the Latest Rates calculations.

You can see a lot of its holdings in the HORIZON account NHZ-YC2W-ZDCP-NS4G-4CEGK

(Among the things not shown there are the shares of GHC that it holds, as we do not put GHC onto the HORIZON system because they are only for Civilisations to hold and under HORIZON we cannot restrict who you can sell assets to. The fact that it holds GHC shares tells us it definitely IS in the process of setting up a Civilisation; we just do not yet know which Civilisation, on which planet.)


-MarkM-

[develCuy]

develCuy : Please provide a full accounting of the share list to this thread so that we might all understand the current state and comment on the policy going forward.

 -- ctya

Ctya, the accounting of shares of current round can be found here https://github.com/devcoin/accounting/blob/master/account_96.csv (github will gently render the CSV file in your browser). The accounting file for round 97 (the upcoming round) is here: https://github.com/devcoin/accounting/blob/master/account_97.csv. There you can see this: "Devtome Earnings: 0 Shares", it means that nobody is going receive earnings for writing content in Devtome, starting from round 97.

- develCuy

Are you sure that merely adjusting that shares to devtome total suffices to zero everyone's devtome-contributor shares?

I have generated and uploaded so maybe you should check that the results are as you intended.

-MarkM-

There are some shares for marketing and staff that will still be paid in round 97. Keeping them or no in future rounds is on the yard of Novacadian, since the team keeping Devtome alive should be busy working along Novacadian.

- develCuy

[realdantreccia]

According to the new Latest Rates, which I ran using 19 billion as the number of "shares" to divide it into "as if" 19 billion devcoins were in existence (being as hold I was told last time around that almost 19 billion had been minted, and it makes sense to allow for a few more than there actually are to allow for more being minted before we generate a new "Latest Rates"), the total worth of DVC Holdings now is 31,792,998,122.57928719 DeVCoins, that is, over 31 billion DeVCoins.

However, it also says that this amounts to 1.67331569 DeVCoins per share, whereas I had kind of expected it ought logically be saying that it is 1.00000000 DeVCoins per share.

The shareworth is read from the company file at the start of the calculations though, so likely we will not see the new value being used for this "company" until next time around.

So I am thinking it must be using the previous (old) DeVCoin value for computing that DeVCoins per share value.

But if that is the case, I am worried it might also be using the old value for other parts of the calculations.

It does look, from things like the price of DEUterium in DeVCoins, that DeVCoin has gone up about 1.67331569 times its previous value.

So maybe I just have to expect that each time the value per share is going to be shown based on the previous value of DeVCoins.

Other than that little weirdness, which does not show up in the online pages since we do not publish the DVC Holdings account as if it were a Corp or Company (in the Company Values listing), everything seems to have worked.

Oh and all of this still is not yet counting XGG as a reserve currency toward the value of the things that hold it.

A lot of the increase in value is due to the acquisition of more shares of GFC; it used to only hold 461 shares of GFC, now it holds 5000 of them. It also gained a lot of GMC and some of some other things since the last time we ran the Latest Rates calculations.

You can see a lot of its holdings in the HORIZON account NHZ-YC2W-ZDCP-NS4G-4CEGK

(Among the things not shown there are the shares of GHC that it holds, as we do not put GHC onto the HORIZON system because they are only for Civilisations to hold and under HORIZON we cannot restrict who you can sell assets to. The fact that it holds GHC shares tells us it definitely IS in the process of setting up a Civilisation; we just do not yet know which Civilisation, on which planet.)


-MarkM-

When do you expect GeistGeld to count into reserve? Has to be a special value to it...

[novacadian]

Does it need a minimum Steemit account time to write articles about DVC? Is any mention and writing about DVC rewarded?

There is a temporary moratorium on rewards for DevTome submissions while we make adjustments to the reward system as proposed in my previous posting...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg52186677#msg52186677

You do not need a STEEM account, although it is encouraged. You will need to register with a DevTome admin, which should be exaplained at

https://devtome.com

- Nova

P.S. The landing page of DevTome has been edited to announce the temporary moratorium.

[novacadian]

ATTENTION DevCoin Administrators

Just a heads up that all administrators listed on the Devcoin Human Resources[1] page have been contacted either via email or PM (where an email was not available) to ensure their interest to continue their involvement in the relaunch of the project.

If you are a DevCoin Admin and have not received an email or a PM please contact me via PM.

If no contact is made in three weeks from this date then it will be assumed they no longer wish to continue with their administrative duties.

- Nova

[1] https://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_human_resources

[markm]

When do you expect GeistGeld to count into reserve? Has to be a special value to it...

I have been busy doing a LOT of work on the scripts, so in the next calculation of Latest Rates XGG not only gets to count as a reserve but also is itself a currency whose value per coin is calculated based on its own reserves and such. (Treasury).

GPL and GPL2 values are now also calculated from reserves in the same way, as are SPICE (Melange), UFC (United Federation Credits) and USF (United Sci-Fi coin).

Those too are also counted when adding up reserves.

These added coins will be shown in the Latest Rates when next they are generated.

Also, long long ago the Martians offered the Czechs that if the Czechs would make peace with the Martians (they were at war for a LONG time, the Czechs were down to their last city on what is considered a Martian planet being as how pretty much everyone else on it is down to  only one city, and many of them are as determined as the Czech were never to make peace with the Martians), the Martians would create a currency, CZB, for the Czech. Finally the Czech have taken them up on the offer. The offer was so very long ago that back when I initially created the what are now considered the "big seven" Galactic currencies I created CZB right along with them, and they have been in the Latest Rates calculations as a reserve currency counted for everyone's reserves all along, but now finally they have a treasury and some of the other Civilisations have some CZB in their own reserves.

It might still be a day or few before all the typos glitches bugs etc are worked out as this involved a lot of re-arranging.

Here is a not yet correct work-in progress look at what the Latest Rates might look like right now, but things are not complete yet so these figures will change by the time the real Latest Rates are uploaded.

Basically some of these figures are glitched still, but these are the coins the new version will show.

In particular, XGG's treasury has not been fully input yet, so XGG should definitely be worth more than shown below.

Ditto for others, like gosh no way is SPICE (Melange) so pathetically low in value surely!

Even the Ferengi haven't gotten the treasuries for GPL and GPL2 (Gold Pressed Latinum classic and new versions) sorted out yet.

Also I have not plugged in values from exchanges for coins whose value we still have to go "discover" on exchanges (which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC, IXC and I0C for example. or DMD for that matter...)

Which reminds me, come to think of it IXCorp's reserves are now used as the reserves for IXCoin. I0Corp is still a work in progress but it is intended that I0Corp will become I0Coin's treasury.

Code:

BBQrate=.15171330
sBCErate=128424.92994728
sBCIrate=17850.24761759
sBMCrate=18470.53051500
sBRFrate=20706.24371451
BTCrate=70578366.42102595
CDNrate=12507.19059205
CLCrate=3.13681062
sCMCrate=18259.28431670
sCRFrate=372552.23276561
CZBrate=79.57856853
DVCrate=1.00000000
sDVCrate=816364.95250405
FBXrate=2.88397201
sGDCrate=862511.50897201
sGFCrate=3062033.36232765
sGHCrate=221870.51708231
GMCrate=16239.22176601
GPLrate=8165.42229318
GPL2rate=6405.92751419
sGRCrate=948212.21811638
GRFrate=28729.89740470
GRPrate=65.64537712
sGRPrate=4293.29881386
I0Crate=342.73494525
IXCrate=196.20503852
LTCrate=515567.20306163
MBCrate=25221.70306163
NKLrate=444.42574006
NMCrate=5154.33809813
SPICErate=2345.30550486
TBXrate=2.83901054
UFCrate=50.68937550
UKBrate=11684.26074614
UNSrate=12540.10984387
USFrate=76.03406326
XGGrate=10.90946877

I have had to over-estimate the number of coins of some of these new coins, partly to allow that more will be minted by the time the Latest Rates are generated again and partly because I do not have handy for some coins the exact number in existence. Probably I will want to generally use the number that should be in existence in a month or so, to allow for potential delays in generating a new Latest Rates file.

Once I get the current batch done, I plan to add AXIOM, AXON and QBT. Maybe only as coins whose values are computed from treasuries rather than as coins used as reserves, since holding them in reserves you would miss out on staking gains. So I am thinking maybe of having their staking wallets be owned by the HZGROW asset or something like that, so treasuries can just hold shares of such an asset instead of the coins directly, so they get exposure to the gains from staking.

-MarkM-

[markm]

Okay, the new Latest Rates include-file is ready.

Along with the rest of the Digitalis Assets tables and plots.

(Though STILL the plots do not work in my browser, as they haven't since I swiched from Slackware to Ubuntu. Something about GNUplot in Ubuntu is different from how GNUplot worked in Slackware, but I still do not know what. Maybe someone with fancy HTML can figure what is wrong with the plot pages or someone familiar with GNUplot can figure out what you have to do differently under Ubuntu from what worked under Slackware.)

You can see right off the bat that DeVCoin is over a satoshi now, since a bitcoin is valued at less than 100 million DeVCoins now. Nice!

Checking the asset values expressed in bitcoins table confirms that, since now it shows 0.00000001 for DeVCoin instead of 0 like it had for quite a while.

Because there has been so much change this time around the arbitrage opportunities are even better than usual...

Basically a lot of folks don't run around changing all their offers every time a new Latest Rates file comes out, so a lot of offers they had made based on previous prices can suddenly be bargains. Get in there on the
HORIZON and STELLAR platforms promptly before someone else snaps up the best bargains!

-MarkM-

[Traxo]

which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC

Erm, you pissed them off :/

This asset is being delisted.

[realdantreccia]

which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC

Erm, you pissed them off :/

This asset is being delisted.

Maybe a blessing.

[markm]

Maybe so

Maybe we can get enough volume going on HORIZON and STELLAR platforms that we can get CoinMarketCap's attention, and maybe get HZ back on their site and maybe some of the tokens too.

By the way, the Latest Rates include-file is designed to be useful as an include-file, for example myrates.sh uses it:

Code:

#!/bin/bash
#
# myrates.sh
#

BC=/usr/bin/bc
#RATESFILE=/usr/local/lib/ot/conversionrates.inc
RATESFILE=conversionrates.inc

MYrate=$1

if [ "x$MYrate" == "x" ]; then
  echo "Syntax: myrate.sh rate"
  exit 1
fi

. $RATESFILE

echo BBQrate=`echo "scale=8; $BBQrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBCErate=`echo "scale=8; $sBCErate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBCIrate=`echo "scale=8; $sBCIrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sBMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBRFrate=`echo "scale=8; $sBRFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo BTCrate=`echo "scale=8; $BTCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo CDNrate=`echo "scale=8; $CDNrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo CLCrate=`echo "scale=8; $CLCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sCMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sCMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sCRFrate=`echo "scale=8; $sCRFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo CZBrate=`echo "scale=8; $CZBrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo DVCrate=`echo "scale=8; $DVCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sDVCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sDVCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo FBXrate=`echo "scale=8; $FBXrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGDCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGDCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGFCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGFCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGHCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGHCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $GMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GPLrate=`echo "scale=8; $GPLrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GPL2rate=`echo "scale=8; $GPL2rate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGRCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGRCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GRFrate=`echo "scale=8; $GRFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GRPrate=`echo "scale=8; $GRPrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGRPrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGRPrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo I0Crate=`echo "scale=8; $I0Crate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo IXCrate=`echo "scale=8; $IXCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo LTCrate=`echo "scale=8; $LTCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo MBCrate=`echo "scale=8; $MBCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo NKLrate=`echo "scale=8; $NKLrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo NMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $NMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo SPICErate=`echo "scale=8; $SPICErate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo TBXrate=`echo "scale=8; $TBXrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo UFCrate=`echo "scale=8; $UFCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo UKBrate=`echo "scale=8; $UKBrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo UNSrate=`echo "scale=8; $UNSrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo USFrate=`echo "scale=8; $USFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo XGGrate=`echo "scale=8; $XGGrate / $MYrate"|$BC`

So if I want to see prices in bitcoin for example I can copy the BTCrate and use it as first argument to myrates.sh and presto it outputs the rates in terms of BTC.

Or it you are, say, wanting them in Yen, you can find somewhere a conversion to convert DeVCoin to Yen and plug in the result of that to see the whole list in terms of Yen.

Etcetera.

With the Open Transactions system the Big Seven had scripts that would place expires-in-24-hours orders to buy and sell to/from the others of the Big Seven in three scales, usually in thousands, tenthousands, and hundredthousands, using a markup or markdown from the Latest Rates of 3% at the small scale, 2% at the medium scale and 1% at the large scale, or maybe it was 1.5%, 1% and 0.5%, whatever, the point is the include file was included into their create-offers scripts.

Unfortunately I have no command-line "make an offer on HORIZON" nor "make an offer on STELLAR" commands yet like we had for Open Transactions.

-MarkM-

[ctya]

which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC

Erm, you pissed them off :/

This asset is being delisted.

I am sorry but DVC is being delisted for a variety of reasons and will remain delisted
Thank you,
Chuck
Altilly.com

I contacted Altilly support and they were unwilling to provide a remedy to the delisting.
We will need to find another exchange.
ctya

[develCuy]

which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC

Erm, you pissed them off :/

This asset is being delisted.

I am sorry but DVC is being delisted for a variety of reasons and will remain delisted
Thank you,
Chuck
Altilly.com

I contacted Altilly support and they were unwilling to provide a remedy to the delisting.
We will need to find another exchange.
ctya

Hopefully we still have DevSTEEM. I started a buying round for the first time! Yes! We are buying Devcoins for SBD. Learn more here: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-2-buy-round-1

- develCuy

[hornetsnest]

which seems to not work at all well really, since a lot of the pathetic little exchanges show crazy-low values for some of our coins when they list them at all. Look at prices they show for DVC

Erm, you pissed them off :/

This asset is being delisted.

I am sorry but DVC is being delisted for a variety of reasons and will remain delisted
Thank you,
Chuck
Altilly.com

I contacted Altilly support and they were unwilling to provide a remedy to the delisting.
We will need to find another exchange.
ctya

Have you tried Freiexchange?Devcoin has been listed there for a long time now.Not sure if theres a link on the website or opening post.
https://freiexchange.com/market/DVC/BTC

[hornetsnest]

Maybe so

Maybe we can get enough volume going on HORIZON and STELLAR platforms that we can get CoinMarketCap's attention, and maybe get HZ back on their site and maybe some of the tokens too.

By the way, the Latest Rates include-file is designed to be useful as an include-file, for example myrates.sh uses it:

Code:

#!/bin/bash
#
# myrates.sh
#

BC=/usr/bin/bc
#RATESFILE=/usr/local/lib/ot/conversionrates.inc
RATESFILE=conversionrates.inc

MYrate=$1

if [ "x$MYrate" == "x" ]; then
  echo "Syntax: myrate.sh rate"
  exit 1
fi

. $RATESFILE

echo BBQrate=`echo "scale=8; $BBQrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBCErate=`echo "scale=8; $sBCErate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBCIrate=`echo "scale=8; $sBCIrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sBMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sBRFrate=`echo "scale=8; $sBRFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo BTCrate=`echo "scale=8; $BTCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo CDNrate=`echo "scale=8; $CDNrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo CLCrate=`echo "scale=8; $CLCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sCMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sCMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sCRFrate=`echo "scale=8; $sCRFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo CZBrate=`echo "scale=8; $CZBrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo DVCrate=`echo "scale=8; $DVCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sDVCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sDVCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo FBXrate=`echo "scale=8; $FBXrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGDCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGDCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGFCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGFCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGHCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGHCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $GMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GPLrate=`echo "scale=8; $GPLrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GPL2rate=`echo "scale=8; $GPL2rate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGRCrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGRCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GRFrate=`echo "scale=8; $GRFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo GRPrate=`echo "scale=8; $GRPrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo sGRPrate=`echo "scale=8; $sGRPrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo I0Crate=`echo "scale=8; $I0Crate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo IXCrate=`echo "scale=8; $IXCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo LTCrate=`echo "scale=8; $LTCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo MBCrate=`echo "scale=8; $MBCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo NKLrate=`echo "scale=8; $NKLrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo NMCrate=`echo "scale=8; $NMCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo SPICErate=`echo "scale=8; $SPICErate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo TBXrate=`echo "scale=8; $TBXrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo UFCrate=`echo "scale=8; $UFCrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo UKBrate=`echo "scale=8; $UKBrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo UNSrate=`echo "scale=8; $UNSrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo USFrate=`echo "scale=8; $USFrate / $MYrate"|$BC`
echo XGGrate=`echo "scale=8; $XGGrate / $MYrate"|$BC`

So if I want to see prices in bitcoin for example I can copy the BTCrate and use it as first argument to myrates.sh and presto it outputs the rates in terms of BTC.

Or it you are, say, wanting them in Yen, you can find somewhere a conversion to convert DeVCoin to Yen and plug in the result of that to see the whole list in terms of Yen.

Etcetera.

With the Open Transactions system the Big Seven had scripts that would place expires-in-24-hours orders to buy and sell to/from the others of the Big Seven in three scales, usually in thousands, tenthousands, and hundredthousands, using a markup or markdown from the Latest Rates of 3% at the small scale, 2% at the medium scale and 1% at the large scale, or maybe it was 1.5%, 1% and 0.5%, whatever, the point is the include file was included into their create-offers scripts.

Unfortunately I have no command-line "make an offer on HORIZON" nor "make an offer on STELLAR" commands yet like we had for Open Transactions.

-MarkM-

Not easy for some noob to go buy Devcoin on stellar because you cant find it on their platform(s) when you use the search box.It has to be simple for the peeps :-(

[shtako]

Strange move from altilly to delist without any reasoning. It can't possible cost much to host devcoin.

Tradeogre seems like a decent exchange with ltc markets. Might be a good option to apply there.

[Traxo]

It can't possible cost much to host devcoin.

Sadly, some DVC investors might think that $10 monthly is a ton, but really that is all it takes to run a devcoin node ^{(if you don't run any other nodes already, else it's actually much cheaper)}. (I know because I set one up. Besides, https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dvc/ was running it for $10 monthly, but apparently you guys traded all your USDs for DVCs)

Tradeogre seems like a decent exchange with ltc markets. Might be a good option to apply there.

Or perhaps it is time we stop being lazy and just look into Stellar (and Horizon)?

[markm]

Getting our tokens listed on sites that provide windows into STELLAR or HORIZON likely requires negotiation and likely also some kind of requirements we'd have to meet.

I expect that they will tend to want there to exist automated gateways for converting real coins on the blockchain back and forth from being tokens on the platform.

The problems with that are

(1) "Example" free open source code provided to do that part explicitly says it is not fit for production use so I don't and won't use it.

(2) The examples I have seen (for Stellar) assume you will issue (mint) tokens as real coins on blockchain are received from customer and de-mint them (return them to issuing account) when you cash them out back to real coins on blockchain. I do not find that an appropriate approach, for one thing it looks too much like the customer is making a deposit. I need to only be giving the customer already-existing tokens not minting and destroying tokens on-demand. That way I can be sure I really do have the coins on blockchain matching each token on the platform ahead of time, and be issuing tokens representing coins that are safe somewhere not freshly arrived from a customer into some kind of hot wallet. Ideally I secure coins in deepfrozen wallets in safety-deposit boxes and/or treasure chests buried on remote treasure islands before issuing tokens representing them, and hope my decendants / heirs-and-assigns never need to go dig them up until ready to stop dealing in that coin so no longer needing any tokens of that coin so finally free to go dig them up.

I prefer to turn only half my coins into tokens, so I have half as tokens for use on the platform and the other half available to buy back the tokens with, so that I do not have to risk the coins the tokens represent by moving them on the blockchain making them newly vulnerable to attempts at re-writing blockchain-history.

I prefer actually to first add a hard-coded checkpoint into the coin's client before issuing tokens, so that I know the up to date clients will not even accept a blockchain that has tried to go back in history and change the fact that the coins the tokens represent are in the cold storage address they were put in.

Also, buying and selling tokens can be a whole different thing legally in some jurisdictions than holding customer deposits. So I don't want them to deposit anything, I want to sell them tokens and buy tokens back from them. Thus having the tokens already exist ready for sale BEFORE the sale helps keep it clear no "depositing" is involved.

Even so though some jurisdictions might try to construe the tokens as "securities".

Interestingly, from what I have read about Facebook's proposed new currency "Libra", it sounds as if they plan to set it up like these game-currencies, that is to say, by having a "basket" of other currencies whose combined value they use to "back" the currency and to decide how many of the currency to mint, minting only as many Libras as they have value in their treasury to be able to buy them back.

Not sure if this is a case of great minds think alike or fools seldom differ.

-MarkM-

[realdantreccia]

Getting our tokens listed on sites that provide windows into STELLAR or HORIZON likely requires negotiation and likely also some kind of requirements we'd have to meet.

I expect that they will tend to want there to exist automated gateways for converting real coins on the blockchain back and forth from being tokens on the platform.

The problems with that are

(1) "Example" free open source code provided to do that part explicitly says it is not fit for production use so I don't and won't use it.

(2) The examples I have seen (for Stellar) assume you will issue (mint) tokens as real coins on blockchain are received from customer and de-mint them (return them to issuing account) when you cash them out back to real coins on blockchain. I do not find that an appropriate approach, for one thing it looks too much like the customer is making a deposit. I need to only be giving the customer already-existing tokens not minting and destroying tokens on-demand. That way I can be sure I really do have the coins on blockchain matching each token on the platform ahead of time, and be issuing tokens representing coins that are safe somewhere not freshly arrived from a customer into some kind of hot wallet. Ideally I secure coins in deepfrozen wallets in safety-deposit boxes and/or treasure chests buried on remote treasure islands before issuing tokens representing them, and hope my decendants / heirs-and-assigns never need to go dig them up until ready to stop dealing in that coin so no longer needing any tokens of that coin so finally free to go dig them up.

I prefer to turn only half my coins into tokens, so I have half as tokens for use on the platform and the other half available to buy back the tokens with, so that I do not have to risk the coins the tokens represent by moving them on the blockchain making them newly vulnerable to attempts at re-writing blockchain-history.

I prefer actually to first add a hard-coded checkpoint into the coin's client before issuing tokens, so that I know the up to date clients will not even accept a blockchain that has tried to go back in history and change the fact that the coins the tokens represent are in the cold storage address they were put in.

Also, buying and selling tokens can be a whole different thing legally in some jurisdictions than holding customer deposits. So I don't want them to deposit anything, I want to sell them tokens and buy tokens back from them. Thus having the tokens already exist ready for sale BEFORE the sale helps keep it clear no "depositing" is involved.

Even so though some jurisdictions might try to construe the tokens as "securities".

Interestingly, from what I have read about Facebook's proposed new currency "Libra", it sounds as if they plan to set it up like these game-currencies, that is to say, by having a "basket" of other currencies whose combined value they use to "back" the currency and to decide how many of the currency to mint, minting only as many Libras as they have value in their treasury to be able to buy them back.

Not sure if this is a case of great minds think alike or fools seldom differ.

-MarkM-

Always believed in you "Mark" - even if the gist of what you've done is only realized by me.

Thanks for the detailed explanation once again.

-Loony

[markm]

The asset values info at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html has been updated. Overall it looks like pretty much everything is up in value.

As usual get onto HORIZON and STELLAR promptly to snap up bargains before someone else beats you to it...

-MarkM-