[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[develCuy]

Regarding our Devcoin+STEEM Integration project, this is how our 12 shares are distributed from round 83:

Marketing Team

- Qterar: 1 share
- FuzzyBear: 1 share
- Develcuy: 1 share

Infrastructure (Hosting)
- Develcuy: 4 shares

STEEM POWER fund (for @devcoin)
- Develcuy: 5 shares

In short, 9 shares to pay expenses and 3 shares for payroll. For transparency I plan to publish bills in this thread on each round, one post per round isn't too much noise IMHO. Any objection?

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[wiser]

ctya, congratulations on the 2nd exchange. Here is another one to check out: https://stocks.exchange/

I would especially love to have DVC listed there because two of my other coins are also listed.

I submitted the listing form at stocks.exchange and will let you know of any progress there.

Hello Team,

your request to list "DVC" is APPROVED.
Further Steps:
1. Payment
2. Integration
3. Test deposits / withdrawals
4. Creating trading pair

Our listing fee for:
BTC pair - 0.7 BTC
ETH pair - 0.5 BTC
USDT pair - 0.5 BTC
TUSD pair - 0.5 BTC
LTC/NXT - 0.1 BTC each additionally to main pairs (BTC or USDT or ETH).

In listing form you have chosen BTC pair. It's 0.7 BTC.
If you accept this price - make a payment to this wallet address 13fDzW22wyE4RT9aEHgP4SRKEei5HFKAUt
After payment, please, provide hash.
If you have any question do not hesitate to ask me anything in this email.


Regards,
Sasha
Stocks.exchange

So... what do we do? Do folks want to chip in to get it listed? That adds up to roughly five thousand dollars for listing. It might also make sense to do a DVC/LTC pair.

I have also received an offer to pay-to-list at listex.io.  After discussing with UTB, I have not pursued the completion of these payments.

Devcoin is listed at Freiexchange (https://freiexchange.com/market/DVC/BTC) so it does not seem worthwhile to pay for other exchanges while the volume is so low at Freiexchange

As the volume picks up, we can exchange the Devcoin round shares for the payment fee at a more realistic DVC/BTC price, IMHO

That sounds reasonable. I do have one concern, though. DNotes was recently listed on Stocks.exchange. Before that it had been listed on one of those small exchanges no one has ever heard about. The day after it got listed on Stocks.exchange, its price went up a third again from what it had been on the unknown exchange. I couldn't guarantee that the exact same thing would happen with DVC. However, there is something to be said for placing it on a higher volume exchange to begin with. Higher volume *might* also lead to higher price.

Frei Exchange has very little volume, and I wonder if it's the coin or the exchange that is the cause. How many people simply aren't going to trade there because it's an unknown exchange?

Just something to think about. What if a group of 20 of us collectively put in the listing fee and then got reimbursed in DVC on the next round with either shares or equal to the corresponding BTC amount at market rate? I know I couldn't cover the entire listing fee, but I could "loan" 1/20th of it. I think it would be worth going for both a BTC/DVC pair and a LTC/DVC pair.

[wiser]

Hi Wiser,

yes you download the Bisq client and it runs like the devcoin client / wallet where it connects to nodes and peers, select your currency from dropdown menus and shows rates etc. Not worked out how to actually trade or deposit yet but might make a steemit article if i get it working etc or put one on devtome

Fuzzybear

I went ahead and installed the Bisq network program. It's kind of a wallet, sort of. I figured out where the DVC/BTC market is and how to make an offer. That market it currently empty. They require a security deposit of 0.01 BTC just to make an offer, which is a HUGE turnoff. The platform is also rather clunky, as are all decentralized exchanges I've had to use over the years. I don't much like it. I'll keep playing around. I want to see if there might be a DVC/LTC market. I don't see why not. It might be easier to visualize if a few others placed offers.

Paying part of a listing fee to be on Stocks.exchange just got more attractive...

The other elephant in the room issue I see with the whole listing DVC on an exchange thing is this: what reason would people have for buying it? Can we point to anything being developed, worked on, planned, that would make this coin attractive to a potential buyer? It has to go beyond "DVC is one of the oldest cryptocoins so it's historic."

[develCuy]

Hi Wiser,

yes you download the Bisq client and it runs like the devcoin client / wallet where it connects to nodes and peers, select your currency from dropdown menus and shows rates etc. Not worked out how to actually trade or deposit yet but might make a steemit article if i get it working etc or put one on devtome

Fuzzybear

I went ahead and installed the Bisq network program. It's kind of a wallet, sort of. I figured out where the DVC/BTC market is and how to make an offer. That market it currently empty. They require a security deposit of 0.01 BTC just to make an offer, which is a HUGE turnoff. The platform is also rather clunky, as are all decentralized exchanges I've had to use over the years. I don't much like it. I'll keep playing around. I want to see if there might be a DVC/LTC market. I don't see why not. It might be easier to visualize if a few others placed offers.

Paying part of a listing fee to be on Stocks.exchange just got more attractive...

The other elephant in the room issue I see with the whole listing DVC on an exchange thing is this: what reason would people have for buying it? Can we point to anything being developed, worked on, planned, that would make this coin attractive to a potential buyer? It has to go beyond "DVC is one of the oldest cryptocoins so it's historic."

We are back to exchanges and now figure out the next step: Trading Volume. People use crypto as an asset, for speculation or as a currency. Devcoin was created as a currency due to its volatility and infinite supply. In short, IMHO we should focus on promoting the use of Devcoin for buying goods and services.

Look at Github, they are a Software as a Service (SaaS) company, acquired by Micro$oft for US$7.5 billion a few days ago. Now look at STEEM, they have their own currency and they are creating services all the time, that should be constant for us as well.

Let's create new services that accept Devcoin, and let's make existing services to accept Devcoin. It will turn on our engine of growth.

[novacadian]

The other elephant in the room issue I see with the whole listing DVC on an exchange thing is this: what reason would people have for buying it? Can we point to anything being developed, worked on, planned, that would make this coin attractive to a potential buyer? It has to go beyond "DVC is one of the oldest cryptocoins so it's historic."

There are a couple of DevCoin - Steem program bounties being put together which is intended to bring in some cash flow as well as giving our @devcoin witness a higher profile. We are in agreement that being listed on just one exchange would meet our needs at the moment; however getting listed seems to be a long process which requires some finessing. Putting in the leg work now is a bit like build it and they will come. Besides, few will probably notice until CryptoAddicto (Advertising Admin) starts blowing our horn.  

- Nova

P.S. DevTome should be able to use SMTs (Smart Media Tokens) on the steem blockchain. We could start to think of a major overhaul of DevTome. It has been a boon to many and holds a vast store of content.

P.P.S. @devcoin might consider posting the allowable 10 posts per day on steem using links to good content on DevTome. It would build the @devcoin account as well as advertising DevTome. (If used don't forget to give full credit so the plagiarize police don't come callin. )

[wiser]

Hi Wiser,

yes you download the Bisq client and it runs like the devcoin client / wallet where it connects to nodes and peers, select your currency from dropdown menus and shows rates etc. Not worked out how to actually trade or deposit yet but might make a steemit article if i get it working etc or put one on devtome

Fuzzybear

I went ahead and installed the Bisq network program. It's kind of a wallet, sort of. I figured out where the DVC/BTC market is and how to make an offer. That market it currently empty. They require a security deposit of 0.01 BTC just to make an offer, which is a HUGE turnoff. The platform is also rather clunky, as are all decentralized exchanges I've had to use over the years. I don't much like it. I'll keep playing around. I want to see if there might be a DVC/LTC market. I don't see why not. It might be easier to visualize if a few others placed offers.

Paying part of a listing fee to be on Stocks.exchange just got more attractive...

The other elephant in the room issue I see with the whole listing DVC on an exchange thing is this: what reason would people have for buying it? Can we point to anything being developed, worked on, planned, that would make this coin attractive to a potential buyer? It has to go beyond "DVC is one of the oldest cryptocoins so it's historic."

We are back to exchanges and now figure out the next step: Trading Volume. People use crypto as an asset, for speculation or as a currency. Devcoin was created as a currency due to its volatility and infinite supply. In short, IMHO we should focus on promoting the use of Devcoin for buying goods and services.

Look at Github, they are a Software as a Service (SaaS) company, acquired by Micro$oft for US$7.5 billion a few days ago. Now look at STEEM, they have their own currency and they are creating services all the time, that should be constant for us as well.

Let's create new services that accept Devcoin, and let's make existing services to accept Devcoin. It will turn on our engine of growth.

I definitely want to encourage this thinking, as well as action. I'm not a developer or coder so can't help directly with the coding, but I am good at writing so could contribute more in the promotional literature department. I'd like to see an updated list of what services are available for Devcoin and which ones are in development.

I think it would be worthwhile to focus those services and development on a niche that no one is catering to, rather than competing with all the other stuff that's out there. One suggestion: Due to its currently low value and high fungibility, I think Devcoin would really shine in the whole micropayments category. There has been a lot of talk about websites moving from an ad revenue model to a tip based model, where people tip articles and other content they found especially helpful, and in return they get an ad free experience. I think Devcoin would be well suited for that. To to that, a web based light wallet would have to be developed (average user won't deal with downloading 6+ years of block chain), then integrated into whatever website will support it. I'm thinking something along the lines of what MetaMask is for Ethereum--a browser extension that can be connected directly to an app like CryptoKitties, though in the case of the wallet and app, hopefully both actually work better.

[wiser]

Another thing that should be seriously considered: Updating the tech on our coin to match the current technology.

Traditional Proof of Work coins are getting replaced by the sleeker (from an electricity usage point of view) proof of stake and masternode coins. They also include features like smart contracts, invoicing, etc.

We probably need to update Devcoin to modernize it, which is going to mean a complete hard fork. Two coins I'm involved in, DMD Diamond and DNotes, very recently did this. It involved among other things taking a snapshot of the network and then starting on that basis with the new fork, beginning again at block zero, effectively swapping out everyone's old coins for new coins.

[novacadian]

We probably need to update Devcoin to modernize it, which is going to mean a complete hard fork.

If going down that route, my thoughts are that we should seriously consider putting is some minor deflation to DVC. Even steem is producing ever so little less each round so that it should be down 95% of its present volume created by 2040. We could have DVC  deflating at even less than that. Feeling very positive about the DVC - Steem merged mining concept of develCuy, my feeling is that we should always be able to buy back DVC if need be in some distant future.

- Nova

P.S. There is also the concept for programmers to consider if Proof of Work DVC could be given as a Proof of Brain SMT by some convoluted fashion. Perhaps by having a legitimate DVC reward pool to draw from?

P.P.S. Beginning to think that we should use the exact deflation of steem. As @devcoin expressed so well in their recent post, "Have you ever heard that there is no age for love?" Why not two hearts that beat as one?

@devcoin's post:

https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/the-present-and-future-of-devcoin-steem-integration

[wiser]

We probably need to update Devcoin to modernize it, which is going to mean a complete hard fork.

If going down that route, my thoughts are that we should seriously consider putting is some minor deflation to DVC. Even steem is producing ever so little less each round so that it should be down 95% of its present volume created by 2040. We could have DVC  deflating at even less than that. Feeling very positive about the DVC - Steem merged mining concept of develCuy, my feeling is that we should always be able to buy back DVC if need be in some distant future.

- Nova

P.S. There is also the concept for programmers to consider if Proof of Work DVC could be given as a Proof of Brain SMT by some convoluted fashion. Perhaps by having a legitimate DVC reward pool to draw from?

P.P.S. Beginning to think that we should use the exact deflation of steem. As @devcoin expressed so well in their recent post, "Have you ever heard that there is no age for love?" Why not two hearts that beat as one?

@devcoin's post:

https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/the-present-and-future-of-devcoin-steem-integration

I'm not necessarily sold on deflation, though not particularly against it. I do believe it would be very helpful to curb the inflation rate substantially.

[gembitz]

Another thing that should be seriously considered: Updating the tech on our coin to match the current technology.

Traditional Proof of Work coins are getting replaced by the sleeker (from an electricity usage point of view) proof of stake and masternode coins. They also include features like smart contracts, invoicing, etc.

We probably need to update Devcoin to modernize it, which is going to mean a complete hard fork. Two coins I'm involved in, DMD Diamond and DNotes, very recently did this. It involved among other things taking a snapshot of the network and then starting on that basis with the new fork, beginning again at block zero, effectively swapping out everyone's old coins for new coins.

masternodes are not a good idea, if you try to HARD FORK devcoin it's no longer DEVCOIN and make proof of stake clone coin please make the algo linear to distribution    jmho

[wiser]

Another thing that should be seriously considered: Updating the tech on our coin to match the current technology.

Traditional Proof of Work coins are getting replaced by the sleeker (from an electricity usage point of view) proof of stake and masternode coins. They also include features like smart contracts, invoicing, etc.

We probably need to update Devcoin to modernize it, which is going to mean a complete hard fork. Two coins I'm involved in, DMD Diamond and DNotes, very recently did this. It involved among other things taking a snapshot of the network and then starting on that basis with the new fork, beginning again at block zero, effectively swapping out everyone's old coins for new coins.

masternodes are not a good idea, if you try to HARD FORK devcoin it's no longer DEVCOIN and make proof of stake clone coin please make the algo linear to distribution    jmho

You can have a POS coin without masternodes. DNotes is currently doing that. Of course we would want the algo to most closely represent what Devcoin stands for and what it does best. A good coin needs to have good leadership. That's really what makes the coin what it is; the tech helps, but it's pretty neutral.

[FuzzyBear]

Hi all,

Just wanted to voice a few thoughts after having been catching up on a few threads and other coins etc. 

Firstly exchange listings and new exchanges.

Again huge hats off to CYTA for their hard work on following up on the exchanges and managing to get Devcoin listed on 2 new exchanges. 
I would recommend 2 things now. 

1. I dont think we need to pay anyone to list Devcoin on their exchange.  Any funds put into such would probably be wasted and could have been used to help buy up the devcoins and increase the DVC price overall.

2. It seems there are a number of other cryptocoins and assets that have been hit by exchanges hacked running off with money etc and a fair few looking about to try find new exchanges to list their cryptocoin (IXCoin, Feathercoin, BBQCoin, WorldCoin) just a few that popped up and saw on their threads or coinmarketcap they no longer listed on exchange etc.  Again IXC is a merge mined coin just like devcoin and been around about as long so maybe https://freiexchange.com would be interested in listing that coin.

point 2 will help bring greater volume to the exchange and thus show it up as a place to arbitrage the price against other exchanges and help boost the revenue for https://freiexchange.com so they can develop more features and attract more users etc.  We can help spread the word of this nice exchange we have found and see if we can help drive crypto traders to the exchange.

Next point I see people are talking about the need for people to be able to spend devcoins on real life products, items and services etc.  I might be willing to run another share passthrough like I did on cryptostocks with the ASICMiner Devcoin Passthrough but I am yet to find any BTC or crypto stock investments that would be a fairly safe investment to start up such a service for the devcoin community.  Anyone any ideas for investments? or anyone know of a platform that I could setup a passthrough for shares like this on? If not I might look into making my own site if enough interest.

Fuzzybear

[Unthinkingbit]

I want to give authority to Novacadian to hand out up to 12 shares per round to help Steemit or save it from corruption.

Novacadian agreed to do this. If Novacadian becomes corrupt and starts giving away shares for no reason, which I do not expect at all, then Novacadian would lose the share authority. Any objections?

[Qtera]

I want to give authority to Novacadian to hand out up to 12 shares per round to help Steemit or save it from corruption.

Novacadian agreed to do this. If Novacadian becomes corrupt and starts giving away shares for no reason, which I do not expect at all, then Novacadian would lose the share authority. Any objections?

No objection, Nova is a cool guy and I trust him 100%

[papacrush]

I want to give authority to Novacadian to hand out up to 12 shares per round to help Steemit or save it from corruption.

Novacadian agreed to do this. If Novacadian becomes corrupt and starts giving away shares for no reason, which I do not expect at all, then Novacadian would lose the share authority. Any objections?

No objection, Nova is a cool guy and I trust him 100%

I fully support Novacadian!  Excellent choice.

[wiser]

Hi all,

Just wanted to voice a few thoughts after having been catching up on a few threads and other coins etc.  

Firstly exchange listings and new exchanges.

Again huge hats off to CYTA for their hard work on following up on the exchanges and managing to get Devcoin listed on 2 new exchanges.  
I would recommend 2 things now.  

1. I dont think we need to pay anyone to list Devcoin on their exchange.  Any funds put into such would probably be wasted and could have been used to help buy up the devcoins and increase the DVC price overall.

2. It seems there are a number of other cryptocoins and assets that have been hit by exchanges hacked running off with money etc and a fair few looking about to try find new exchanges to list their cryptocoin (IXCoin, Feathercoin, BBQCoin, WorldCoin) just a few that popped up and saw on their threads or coinmarketcap they no longer listed on exchange etc.  Again IXC is a merge mined coin just like devcoin and been around about as long so maybe https://freiexchange.com would be interested in listing that coin.

point 2 will help bring greater volume to the exchange and thus show it up as a place to arbitrage the price against other exchanges and help boost the revenue for https://freiexchange.com so they can develop more features and attract more users etc.  We can help spread the word of this nice exchange we have found and see if we can help drive crypto traders to the exchange.

Next point I see people are talking about the need for people to be able to spend devcoins on real life products, items and services etc.  I might be willing to run another share passthrough like I did on cryptostocks with the ASICMiner Devcoin Passthrough but I am yet to find any BTC or crypto stock investments that would be a fairly safe investment to start up such a service for the devcoin community.  Anyone any ideas for investments? or anyone know of a platform that I could setup a passthrough for shares like this on? If not I might look into making my own site if enough interest.

Fuzzybear

Fuzzy, I would recommend you get in touch with the DMD Diamond team and pick their brains about passthrough investments. They don't do this any more but for several years they ran a successful "cloud mining" operation using Nice Hash and others where you could donate BTC in exchange for shares and those shares entitled you to a certain amount of profits paid out in DMD. That kept some upward pressure on the market price, and it was a nice little income source. I don't know too much about the details, but I figure that you could learn more from them. Their Bitcoin Talk thread is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=580725

I'd like to see something like a passthrough share again, and the above is my only idea right now.

I do believe the fact that every month 180 million new Devcoins are created may be problematic. It's just too much. We're creating them faster than our ecosystem is able to absorb them. I know that the DNotes team felt that the supply of DNotes was expanding too quickly through Scrypt mining, so when they upgraded to version 2.0, which is a POS coin, they set it up in such a way that the supply of coins would increase at a much lower rate. And DNotes only had about 150 million in circulation at that time and the beginnings of a well developed ecosystem. So if that supply was expanding too quickly, what can be said of a coin whose supply expands by even more than that each and every month?

[novacadian]

I do believe the fact that every month 180 million new Devcoins are created may be problematic.

The last estimate found in a search suggested steem is being produced at about +/- 900,000 per 30 day month. Their deflation rate will take them to 95% less than present production, eventually, yet never to zero. The following link is an analysis post on the math behind steem production. We would do well tailoring DVC in a simular fashion, in my opinion. There needs to be some form of deflation built into the coin for its long term survival. steem has a natural hording through users powering up their steem to steem power (SPs), which DVC does not have.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@fatboyjames/how-much-new-steem-is-created-everyday

- Nova

[wiser]

Where is that second DVC market? Can someone please post a link? Volume on Frei Exchange is completely nonexistent, so I thought I'd see if there was anything going on with the other DVC market. Thanks.

[ctya]

Currently there are how many exchanges for devcoin? If the volume in any exchange is consistent again, can it appear again in coinmarketcap here?

Bisq.network
https://bisq.network

and

Freiexchange
https://freiexchange.com

[Guido]

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/devcoin/