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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 946627 times)
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November 06, 2018, 06:41:25 PM
 #7701

DevCoin has many debts to collect Smiley

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November 07, 2018, 11:09:14 AM
Last edit: November 07, 2018, 01:05:24 PM by markm
 #7702

DevCoin has many debts to collect Smiley

That is crazy-true, the amount of DeVCoin-denominated debt in the Galactic Milieu is insane, just the Galactic Financial Corp alone has accounts receivable of 2526405025311.32878874 DeVCoins right now. Seriously, that is over 2500 BILLION devcoins, and so far less than 20 billion DeVCoins have ever been minted!

And that is after some periods of seriously undervaluied DeVCoins have already allowed several major debtors to completely pay off their debts thanks to the insanely low prices shown for DeVCoin on such exchanges as it has managed to get listed on in the last few years!

Take a look at the historical tables of assets values at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html, in particular pay attention to the "Latest Rates Include-file" at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc which various folks use as a general guideline include-file to convert asset values from one asset to another.

Typically when someone goes to make a payment on a DeVCoin-denominated debt it is not practical, due to the insanely low supposed value of a DeVCoin, to actually obtain actual DeVCoins with which to pay, so this "price list" tends to be used to figure out an "equivalent value" in some other asset. As you can see, quite a while ago the listed values of DeVCoins dropped massively, I think it went from about three bitcoin-satoshis to about one third of a bitcoin-satoshi at one point, with the result that all of a sudden nearly any other asset could be used to pay off about ten times as much DeVCoin-denominated debt as had been the case previously.

A significant portion of the debt has historically been paid by selling "Deuterium" to either the Galactic Mining Corp or the Galactic Retirement Funds Corp, thus usually for either GMC scrip or GFC scrip, which in turn is used to pay off the DeVCoin-denominated debt at a rate based on the "Latest Rates" pertaining at the time of sale. (Thus the historical tables of values, they let accounting lag behind the real time events so we can periodically go back and refer to those historical tables to see what conversion rates applied back when the sale actually happened, which helps a lot in administrating the game with a limited staff on a limited budget.)

In theory the massive amount of debt that is denominated in DeVCoins should have pushed up the price of DeVCoins significantly over time, but instead it seems like maybe more players have a vested interest in keeping the supposed value of DeVCoins low, presumably in order to pay of debts easier, than have a vested interest in keeping the supposed value of DeVCoin high in order that the accounts receivable from DeVCoin-denominated debt be maximised.

I am not at all sure what can be done about that, maybe we need a lot more folks be become shareholders of the Galactic Financial Corp so they will take more interest in keeping up the value of DeVCoins, or maybe we just need the value of DeVCoins to become high enough that it will not seem utterly out of the question to expect folks paying off such debts to be able to find some way of obtaining enough DeVCoins in one lump to be able to make a payment IN DEVCOINs instead of being "forced" to use "supposedly equivalent value" of some other asset.

In this connection it might help to know that a typical shipment of "Deuterium" is typically a fleet of a thousand "large cargo ships" thus carries almost 25 million units of Deuterium, and that often a given debtor will tend to ship more than one such fleet at one time. That gives a ballpark idea of how much DeVCoin would need to be readily available for purchase by such debtors, purchasing probably using "Deuterium" itself or GMC scrip or GRF scrip, in order for it to become practical to try to insist debtors obtain actual DeVCoins to pay their debts with rather than being ("perforce") permitted to pay using "supposedly equivalent value" of some other asset(s).

Another potential route to helping this situation could be to try harder to shift DeVCoin from being the kind of asset whose price you determine by looking at exchanges to being the kind of asset whose value can be estimated by adding up all the stuff owned by its "issuer" or "backer" and dividing the value of that "war chest" or "treasury" by the number of coins that have been issued.

Unfortunately so far there is no "DeVCoin Nation" within the Galactic Milieu whose total worth can be added up and divided by the number of DeVCoins in existence to calculate an assumed value of a DeVCoin. The closest thing we have to that so far is DeVCorp whose total assets as I write this post are shown (in the Company Assets Summary at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/companies.html) as 677955057647.58803418 DeVCoins (over 677 BILLION DeVCoins worth of stuff at the current purported values of the "stuff", a total of 677955.05764758 DeVCoins per each of the one million shares of DeVCorp in existence).

Still as you can presumably see from those numbers, DeVCorp's supposed value amounts to 35 or more times the supposed value (based on price at "exchanges") of all the DeVCoins that have ever been minted, which it naively seems to me maybe ought to kind of imply that if DeVCorp is the backer of DeVCoins the value of DeVCoins ought to be 35 or more times what the extant website-based "exchanges" seem to be able to "discover" its value to be.

So something certainly seems to be "out of whack" somewhere, I am just not sure what or where.

It surely does not help that the last website-based "exchange" DeVCoin was listed at ran with all the money, making players, Corps, Nations etc extremely reluctant to throw more "stuff" at such sites, so that it will likely take a couple of years yet before the latest such sites can realistically be risked with yet more of our precious coins and assets.

-MarkM-



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November 07, 2018, 12:26:39 PM
 #7703

@develCuy any update on the last order through steemit?Thanks.
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November 07, 2018, 05:22:32 PM
 #7704

@develCuy any update on the last order through steemit?Thanks.

Ups! I missed that one! I processed it right away

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November 07, 2018, 05:41:01 PM
 #7705

Code:
CoinMarketCap Request
Your response has been recorded.  Due to the volume of requests, it can take up to 7 days to resolve your issue. 
Please do not submit multiple requests for the same issue. Thank you.

Done.

You rock!!

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November 07, 2018, 09:07:12 PM
 #7706

@develCuy any update on the last order through steemit?Thanks.

How much you paying there? 

How much you gettin’?   Cry

iXcoin - Welcome to the F U T U R E!
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November 07, 2018, 09:21:37 PM
 #7707

Code:
CoinMarketCap Request
Your response has been recorded.  Due to the volume of requests, it can take up to 7 days to resolve your issue. 
Please do not submit multiple requests for the same issue. Thank you.

Done.

You rock!!

We really gettin’ listed on coinmarketcap? 

Oh we’re going big now!!! 

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November 07, 2018, 09:25:19 PM
 #7708

DevCoin has many debts to collect Smiley

That is crazy-true, the amount of DeVCoin-denominated debt in the Galactic Milieu is insane, just the Galactic Financial Corp alone has accounts receivable of 2526405025311.32878874 DeVCoins right now. Seriously, that is over 2500 BILLION devcoins, and so far less than 20 billion DeVCoins have ever been minted!

And that is after some periods of seriously undervaluied DeVCoins have already allowed several major debtors to completely pay off their debts thanks to the insanely low prices shown for DeVCoin on such exchanges as it has managed to get listed on in the last few years!

Take a look at the historical tables of assets values at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html, in particular pay attention to the "Latest Rates Include-file" at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc which various folks use as a general guideline include-file to convert asset values from one asset to another.

Typically when someone goes to make a payment on a DeVCoin-denominated debt it is not practical, due to the insanely low supposed value of a DeVCoin, to actually obtain actual DeVCoins with which to pay, so this "price list" tends to be used to figure out an "equivalent value" in some other asset. As you can see, quite a while ago the listed values of DeVCoins dropped massively, I think it went from about three bitcoin-satoshis to about one third of a bitcoin-satoshi at one point, with the result that all of a sudden nearly any other asset could be used to pay off about ten times as much DeVCoin-denominated debt as had been the case previously.

A significant portion of the debt has historically been paid by selling "Deuterium" to either the Galactic Mining Corp or the Galactic Retirement Funds Corp, thus usually for either GMC scrip or GFC scrip, which in turn is used to pay off the DeVCoin-denominated debt at a rate based on the "Latest Rates" pertaining at the time of sale. (Thus the historical tables of values, they let accounting lag behind the real time events so we can periodically go back and refer to those historical tables to see what conversion rates applied back when the sale actually happened, which helps a lot in administrating the game with a limited staff on a limited budget.)

In theory the massive amount of debt that is denominated in DeVCoins should have pushed up the price of DeVCoins significantly over time, but instead it seems like maybe more players have a vested interest in keeping the supposed value of DeVCoins low, presumably in order to pay of debts easier, than have a vested interest in keeping the supposed value of DeVCoin high in order that the accounts receivable from DeVCoin-denominated debt be maximised.

I am not at all sure what can be done about that, maybe we need a lot more folks be become shareholders of the Galactic Financial Corp so they will take more interest in keeping up the value of DeVCoins, or maybe we just need the value of DeVCoins to become high enough that it will not seem utterly out of the question to expect folks paying off such debts to be able to find some way of obtaining enough DeVCoins in one lump to be able to make a payment IN DEVCOINs instead of being "forced" to use "supposedly equivalent value" of some other asset.

In this connection it might help to know that a typical shipment of "Deuterium" is typically a fleet of a thousand "large cargo ships" thus carries almost 25 million units of Deuterium, and that often a given debtor will tend to ship more than one such fleet at one time. That gives a ballpark idea of how much DeVCoin would need to be readily available for purchase by such debtors, purchasing probably using "Deuterium" itself or GMC scrip or GRF scrip, in order for it to become practical to try to insist debtors obtain actual DeVCoins to pay their debts with rather than being ("perforce") permitted to pay using "supposedly equivalent value" of some other asset(s).

Another potential route to helping this situation could be to try harder to shift DeVCoin from being the kind of asset whose price you determine by looking at exchanges to being the kind of asset whose value can be estimated by adding up all the stuff owned by its "issuer" or "backer" and dividing the value of that "war chest" or "treasury" by the number of coins that have been issued.

Unfortunately so far there is no "DeVCoin Nation" within the Galactic Milieu whose total worth can be added up and divided by the number of DeVCoins in existence to calculate an assumed value of a DeVCoin. The closest thing we have to that so far is DeVCorp whose total assets as I write this post are shown (in the Company Assets Summary at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/companies.html) as 677955057647.58803418 DeVCoins (over 677 BILLION DeVCoins worth of stuff at the current purported values of the "stuff", a total of 677955.05764758 DeVCoins per each of the one million shares of DeVCorp in existence).

Still as you can presumably see from those numbers, DeVCorp's supposed value amounts to 35 or more times the supposed value (based on price at "exchanges") of all the DeVCoins that have ever been minted, which it naively seems to me maybe ought to kind of imply that if DeVCorp is the backer of DeVCoins the value of DeVCoins ought to be 35 or more times what the extant website-based "exchanges" seem to be able to "discover" its value to be.

So something certainly seems to be "out of whack" somewhere, I am just not sure what or where.

It surely does not help that the last website-based "exchange" DeVCoin was listed at ran with all the money, making players, Corps, Nations etc extremely reluctant to throw more "stuff" at such sites, so that it will likely take a couple of years yet before the latest such sites can realistically be risked with yet more of our precious coins and assets.

-MarkM-




Mark, you’ve been talking about this galactic Milieu stuff for years but I don’t really get it.

  •   Isn’t it just some online game? 
  •   How or why would anyone be obligated into repaying any debt?
  •   How can the debt exceed the total supply? 

Weren’t they were also using IXcoin and i0C?  I wonder what the debt is there. 

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November 07, 2018, 10:28:03 PM
Last edit: November 08, 2018, 12:25:14 PM by markm
 #7709


Mark, you’ve been talking about this galactic Milieu stuff for years but I don’t really get it.

  •  Isn’t it just some online game?  
  •  How or why would anyone be obligated into repaying any debt?
  •  How can the debt exceed the total supply?  

Weren’t they were also using IXcoin and i0C?  I wonder what the debt is there.  


It is kind of a meta-game, also an "alternate reality game". Basically I took as many as I could find of free open source online multi-player games that actually seemed to work, and used them as interfaces onto one multiverse, and the fact that cryptocurrencies are not tied-in by their software to any particular game means they can act as part of the "glue" that weaves it all together.

Two things can help "obligate" a debt to be paid; one is "collateral", the other is "guarantees". The two also can work together, such as when a player who controlled a intergalactic mining operation vanished and didn't log in for a (Sol III: the mythical "Planet Known as Earth") year the mining operation, which was the collateral for the loan, gets "repossessed" by a "Repo Corp" set up by the government(s) who "guaranteed" the loan.

The common case was that a random internet passer-by would log into the intergalactic mining game, causing thereby a mining colony to be established for them to control, and they would maybe not even order the building of some initial buildings before vanishing never to be heard from again.

Because simply having mining colonies appear "out of nothing" is not conducive to a reasonable economy, the backstory for that particular game was that somehow the Galactic Mining Corp and the Galactic Retirement Funds had collaborated with some unspecified advanced civilisation to enable colony ships to be send out to "galaxies far far away" to establish mining colonies, at a cost per such colonisation of 1000 GMC coins plus 1000 GRF coins; and that when a player joined the game GMC and GRF were thus lending the newly created mining corp created for that player to play 1000 GMC plus 1000 GRF, at an interest rate, originally, of 1% per (Sol III aka "The Planet Known As Earth") day, compounded hourly.

Thus by the time a player had failed to log in for an entire year, at least 365% interest (more actually, because of the compounding) had accrued.

It eventually became apparent that opening a game to random passers-by on the internet was not conducive to establishing reasonable economies. Smiley

However, in addition to being "secured" by the "collateral" of the actual mining colony or colonies (a colony can go on to build more colony ships itself), the loans were "guaranteed" by the Brits, the Canucks, the (galactic) United Nations, basically by the major cilvilisations of the primary inhabited galaxy of freeciv-based planets, the civilisations who were the issuers of some of the original "big seven" galactic currencies, some of the very earliest "altcoins" back before GRouPcoin, DeVCoin and such, back before merged mining. (GMC and GRF coins are also themselves two of those "big seven" galactic currencies).

In the backstory, a large part of the rationale for the "guarantee" on the loans was the perceived need for intergalactic defenses, to protect the (freeciv-based) civilised worlds from potentially hostile intergalactic aliens, given that freeciv is itself only a planet-scale system and that so called "O-game clones" clearly demonstrated that the vast majority of entities controlling vast fleets at intergalactic scales online seemed to be extremely hostile.

So although the Galactic Mining Corp and Galactic Retirement funds corps handled the initial finance and logistics of setting up intergalactic mining operations in galaxies far far away, it was and is the entire set of civilisations living on freeciv-based worlds in the primary inhabited galaxy that wanted and potentially very much needed to get out to faraway galaxies to start building some kind of defensive cordon around the all-important "home galaxy".

So, when the intergalactic mining game had been closed to new players to prevent even more debtor corps from being created, and a year or more had passed with it becoming clear that random passers-by on the internet did not make responsible Chief Executive Officers for Intergalactic Corps, much discussion and politics took place among the politicians of the various civilizations living on the freeciv-based planets, and eventually it was determined that it ought to be somehow possible for some kind of "repossession" to be implemented.

This led to the creation of FGR (First Galactic Repo), SGR (Second Galactic Repo), TGR (Third Galactic Repo) and, over time, eventually GR4 (Galactic Repo 4) through GR38, repossessing all 38 mining corps that had not been logged into for a year or more.

Part of the politics for accomplishing this involved the desire of more and more politicians, political parties, corporations, clans, associations, guilds etc etc etc to get into the potentially lucrative business of "compound interest", and part of it also involved arguments that however feasible it would have been for the original loans to have been serviced had the CEOs actually logged in regularly and kept up with telling the colonies what to build and so on, the 365 or more days of accumulated interest already accrued without any attempts having been made to build up the mining operations made the size of the debts too large to reasonably be required to continue to pay 1% per (Earth) day interest.

Competition came into play too of course, and various factions wheeled and dealed trying to get fingers in the pie by offering lower interest rates.

I think currently the interest rates being charged by General Financial Corp might be the lowest extant rates, as they managed to secure an excellent deal with the Martians, as chronicled in their Bitcoin Talk thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61557.0).

General Financial Corp is the Corp that issued DeVCoin-denominated loans, and it obtained its customers by offering lower interest rates and by pointing to the at that time low rate of growth of the cost of DeVCoins, basically arguing that oh sure you might be able to get a loan from the Brits, denominated in United Kingdom Britcoin (UKB), or from the Canucks, denominated in Canadian Digital Notes (CDN), or from the (galactic) United Nations, denominated in United Nations Scrip (UNS), but if you look (at that time) at the historical trends of asset values, didn't it look like those currencies were going up and up and up in value way too fast for any sensible Corp to want to take on debt denominated in such fast-rising currencies? Surely a debt denominated in DeVCoins would be much safer?

So we come to the present time, with various intergalactic mining corps having their debt denominated in various of the "big seven" galactic currencies but a number of them having their debt denominated in DeVCoin, and the total number of coins owing having accrued using compound interest, having long ago exceeded the number of coins actually minted. This actually happens a lot by the way, look up the types of money-supply, I think for most nations the total dollars pounds yen or whatever far exceeds the number actually printed, it is quite the normal state of affairs apparently.

More information about the game can be found on Devtome starting at the page "Galactic Milieu".

The Ixians and whoever it is that uses I0Coin have not yet gotten involved in loaning out their coins it seems. Indeed I am pretty sure "IX Corp" and "I0 Corp", with manadates similar to DeVCorp and long term goals maybe like DeVCorp of becoming the "treasury" or "warchest" backing their respective coins, have not yet officially been created. Though I expect the Ixian clan, active in the text-mode (CoffeeMUD) interface into the Milieu, do plan at some point to get IXCorp off the ground if they manage to do well get rich etc in the aspects of the game they have so far gotten involved with.

I think the Ixians are also trying to generate interest in SPICE coin too, being as how that harks to the Dune mythos and that mythos also had in it a people know as Ixians.


-MarkM-


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November 09, 2018, 10:27:55 AM
 #7710

@develCuy any update on the last order through steemit?Thanks.

How much you paying there? 

How much you gettin’?   Cry


I think it was 1,250,000 for 50 steem.
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November 09, 2018, 10:28:44 AM
 #7711

@develCuy any update on the last order through steemit?Thanks.

Ups! I missed that one! I processed it right away

Thanks,I will order a few more later today.
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November 11, 2018, 03:58:26 PM
 #7712

There are some info about exchange,

https://www.altilly.com/    my reff included  Grin Grin Grin
DVC/LTC
DVC/ETH

https://freiexchange.com/
DVC/BTC



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November 13, 2018, 04:11:41 AM
 #7713

Greetings.  Once a trader, but became a HODL-bug 'bout a year and a half ago.  Big fan of Syscoin and Jag's work on it.  Just became aware of some Devcoin fundamentals today - been in crypto quite a while and just now became somewhat illumined on DVC for crying out loud.

If I choose to buy a bit of DVC, how is altilly?  I've never used it, and I'm normally very skittish about exchanges.  Any withdrawal or other issues?

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November 13, 2018, 04:58:27 AM
 #7714

@develCuy any update on the last order through steemit?Thanks.

Ups! I missed that one! I processed it right away

Thanks,I will order a few more later today.

Order completed: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/re-devcoin-devsteem-stage-1-sell-round-2-20181113t044706616z

Thanks for your trust Smiley

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November 13, 2018, 07:41:02 AM
 #7715

@develCuy any update on the last order through steemit?Thanks.

Ups! I missed that one! I processed it right away

Thanks,I will order a few more later today.

Order completed: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/re-devcoin-devsteem-stage-1-sell-round-2-20181113t044706616z

Thanks for your trust Smiley

Where do you get the DVC to sell at such a discount to exchanges? 

How much supply do you have left?  It would be nice to let exchanges handle trades sowe can get higher volume and a realistic price. 

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November 13, 2018, 07:43:19 AM
 #7716

Greetings.  Once a trader, but became a HODL-bug 'bout a year and a half ago.  Big fan of Syscoin and Jag's work on it.  Just became aware of some Devcoin fundamentals today - been in crypto quite a while and just now became somewhat illumined on DVC for crying out loud.

If I choose to buy a bit of DVC, how is altilly?  I've never used it, and I'm normally very skittish about exchanges.  Any withdrawal or other issues?



I’ve used it for a couple months.  Really smooth on mobile, fast trade execution, and never any issues with it. 

Plus they have the cheapest DVC right now since they trade on the LTC market.

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November 13, 2018, 10:20:21 AM
 #7717

I've received notification that the Devcoin wikipedia page I created is being considered for deletion. If a concern someone may wish to argue why not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Devcoin_(2nd_nomination)

Also noticed an additional line: "An auction site for Devcoin users went online in May 2014. Users can pay with BTC, LTC, DVC and PayPal. All profits from Devcoin Auctions will go toward the Devcoin project itself." That hasn't been correct for a long time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devcoin
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November 13, 2018, 07:10:16 PM
 #7718

I've received notification that the Devcoin wikipedia page I created is being considered for deletion. If a concern someone may wish to argue why not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Devcoin_(2nd_nomination)

Also noticed an additional line: "An auction site for Devcoin users went online in May 2014. Users can pay with BTC, LTC, DVC and PayPal. All profits from Devcoin Auctions will go toward the Devcoin project itself." That hasn't been correct for a long time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devcoin

Wikipedia is old, we now have Everipedia! It is a blockchain baked encyclopedia, created by the founders of Wikipedia. They are wide open to document cryptos (quick search google for: Cryptocurrency site:everipedia.org). The only drawback is that you should buy IQ tokens from the EOS blockchain, in order to create a page. The good news is that I have IQ tokens so all you have to do is to create the page and share the link with me. I'll take care of getting it voted!!

NOTICE! For every edit on that everipedia you need votes, so you have to be very careful before sending any edit, since I don't have much BRAIN POWER (similar to STEEM POWER) so it takes week to recover!

Go go Devcoin!!

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November 13, 2018, 07:25:41 PM
 #7719

Where do you get the DVC to sell at such a discount to exchanges?  
@devcoin is the official account of STEEM-Devcoin project, which then is owned by the Devcoin project. The supply comes from ongoing shares allocated for this project. More info here: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/the-present-and-future-of-devcoin-steem-integration

How much supply do you have left?  It would be nice to let exchanges handle trades sowe can get higher volume and a realistic price.  
There are some conditions for the buying DVC from @devcoin, more info in here: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@devcoin/devsteem-stage-1-sell-round-2


develCuy
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November 13, 2018, 07:34:22 PM
 #7720

Round 87 and 88: Call for DevSTEEM Marketing team writers!

Round 87 DEADLINE: November 19th, 2018.
Round 88 DEADLINE: December 19th, 2018.

This is a friendly reminder of your assignment: Make positive noise on steemit.com about Devcoin. The payment is one ongoing share! It means that you get 1 share on every round as long as you keep making positive noise on steemit.com about Devcoin (redundancy is intentional!). This is what you should be doing:

1. Write at least one post (500 words) in every round about something related with Devcoin
2. Mention @devcoin in your post and use the #devcoin tag
3. Link your post in a comment to this post: https://steemit.com/devcoin/@devcoin/now-open-devsteem-writers-application
4. Include your Devcoin address and the round your post belongs to.

WARNING! If you don't report on time, you loose your ongoing share the next round!

Questions?

Please send your question(s) into a comment here: https://steemit.com/devcoin/@devcoin/now-open-devsteem-writers-application

- develCuy

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