[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[Vlad2Vlad]

DeVCoin is back on the front page of
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/

Sort by Difficulty. 

ctya

Nice, highest difficulty.  That’s why we are where we are. 

[develCuy]

News for round 98

Liquidity for DevSTEEM's @devcoin

Just to let you know that @devcoin had little liquidity for the buy round so I lended 1.13181133 LTC to @devcoin, which was then exchanged for 87.827 SBD. I'll take my funds back as the market heats. BUT I need you to buy Devcoin at a lower rate, otherwise there will never be marging left for growing DevSTEEM. Remember, if we are baby steps, we should feed the baby. Or it will die!

Thanks everybody supporting Devcoin!

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

[novacadian]

DevCoin Admin Roll Call

It's hard to believe that three weeks have passed since putting out a roll call [1] of all admins listed on our Devcoin Human Resources page [2]. The response has not been 100% although very few of the emails actually bounced. For that reason a week extension will be added and an attempt to reach those that have not replied to emails will be made via PM here on bitcointalk.

In the meantime a space to ease communication among admins is being put together, so that ideas can be developed among one another while moving the DevCoin Relaunch forward.

- Nova (HR Admin)

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg52244692#msg52244692
[2] https://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_human_resources

[markm]

When I originally came up with the idea of only issuing tokens to represent half of my coins, it was basically for security; I wanted to be able freeze my "cold wallets" so cold that it would not be remotely practical to "unfreeze" coins from them "on demand" to "buy back" the tokens from players when they want to "cash in" the tokens for coins-on-the-blockchain.

Thus it seemed reasonable to assume that I should only tokenise half my coins, basically dividing my coins between two logically-distinct entities, those being a cold storage ("custody" is maybe the term?) entity that holds, hopefully "forever", coins that are represented by tokens, and a bail-in/bail-out entity that buys coins-on-blockchains with tokens and tokens with coins-on-blockchains.

This way the cold storage coins could be buried in a vault on the dark side of the moon or whatever, since it would not be necessary to go get them back in order to "cash out" all the tokens; the in/out operation would bail players in and out of the tokens system using coins and tokens of its own. There would be no need to go dig up the cold-stored coins represented by the tokens until such time as the whole "lets use tokens to represent coins" operation is shut down, whether entirely or coin-by-coin.

Doing it this way has some side-effects.

One side-effect is that once a token is created, the coin it represents is off of all other markets. This could, at scale, make the coins progressively more and more "rare" on other markets.

Another side-effect is that no "customer deposits" are involved; neither of the two logically-distinct entities acts as a depository of other people's funds. Rather, we just buy and sell tokens for coins and coins for tokens.

However, there is a "bottleneck" side-effect also, whereby the scale of the entire thing, its "transaction-size bandwidth" as it were, is limited by the number of tokens that have been issued.

It also means the system as a whole depends upon being able to obtain coins by other means than simply issuing tokens representing them as they are obtained.

It needs, in fact, to obtain twice as many of each blockchain-coin as it issues tokens representing.

What this means for DeVCoin is that you cannot simply send in DeVCoins and receive in return tokens representing those DeVCoins.

Rather, the number of DeVCoins you can send in in return for dDVC (digi-DeVCoins; tokens representing DeVCoins) is limited by the number of dDVC available with which to "buy" actual on the blockchain DeVCoins from you.

Thus if for example I have 1,000,000 dDVC available with which to buy actual DeVCoins from you, you can send in 1,000,000 DeVCoins, I send you 1,000,000 dDVC, and eventually I might issue another half a million dDVC to represent half of those million DeVCoins that I bought from you.

That would give me another half million dDVC, so I would then be able to buy another half a million DeVCoins from someone.

And so on, half as much each time.

Hmm.

Obviously, in order to stock the system with actual DeVCoins, so that I can issue dDVC tokens, the system has to have other ways of obtaining DeVCoins.

Thus it turns out to actually be fortunate that several of the original Galactic Currencies ended up deciding that trying to secure blockchains of their own by Proof of Work was unlikely to work (even with Merged Mining), and migrated onto token platforms directly, so that they exist natively as tokens, no longer having blockchains of their own. Although of course it is still theoretically possible that at some future time, if for example GRouPcoin demonstrates to them that one can after all thrive using Merged Mining, they could decide to go back to being blockchains of their own.

Then too there are the Corps, such as General Financial Corp, DeVCorp, GRouPcorp and so on. Not "currencies" per se but rather "shares", although technically there is maybe not much difference, if any. For most purposes they are simply coins that only have a million in existence rather than, for example, 21 million.

The point here is that the system needs to sell such things not only for dDVC on the token platforms but also directly for on-the-blockchain DeVCoins.

So if you are considering bailing-in some DeVCoins to dDVC (digi-DeVCoins, DeVCoin tokens) in order to buy some other thing on he platform using those dDVC tokens, please consider just directly buying those other things using the DeVCoins directly. That way the system gets the input of DeVCoins without "tying up" dDVC tokens in the process.

...

I mentioned above that bailing coins into the system keeps them off of other markets, but of course they still trade, in token form, within the system.

Thus it is useful to have things within that system that go the next step, tying up tokens themselves to take even the tokens off of the markets.

The game comes in handy for that; it provides a number of ways by which tokens get locked into various things, including the "treasuries" of the various currencies and the holdings of the various Corps, and also the abstract economy system that deals in abstract chunks of "small business", "medium business" and "large business", which I have written of elsewhere. (Probably on Devtome?)

-MarkM-

[hornetsnest]

News for round 98

Liquidity for DevSTEEM's @devcoin

Just to let you know that @devcoin had little liquidity for the buy round so I lended 1.13181133 LTC to @devcoin, which was then exchanged for 87.827 SBD. I'll take my funds back as the market heats. BUT I need you to buy Devcoin at a lower rate, otherwise there will never be marging left for growing DevSTEEM. Remember, if we are baby steps, we should feed the baby. Or it will die!

Thanks everybody supporting Devcoin!

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

With all due respect ...and I acknowledge there is respect due to you but in all honesty do you think these small trades we are seeing make a blind bit of difference to anything?

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

There is meat on the bone for anyone who wants to trade this coin.

[novacadian]

News for round 98

Liquidity for DevSTEEM's @devcoin

Just to let you know that @devcoin had little liquidity for the buy round so I lended 1.13181133 LTC to @devcoin, which was then exchanged for 87.827 SBD. I'll take my funds back as the market heats. BUT I need you to buy Devcoin at a lower rate, otherwise there will never be marging left for growing DevSTEEM. Remember, if we are baby steps, we should feed the baby. Or it will die!

Thanks everybody supporting Devcoin!

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

With all due respect ...and I acknowledge there is respect due to you but in all honesty do you think these small trades we are seeing make a blind bit of difference to anything?

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

There is meat on the bone for anyone who wants to trade this coin.

My feeling is that more important than speculative trading that people want a token for the services and/or utilities it provides. There is work underway in the background on some ideas in that regard for DevCoin. An interesting comment by a STEEM developer caught my eye today, where they spoke of Smart Media Tokens which are expected in the next HardFork.

"I mean honestly if someone wanted to create a steem community that distributed EOS or TRON side tokens in a reward pool manner I think the interface could support that community just the same and the feature set may vary a bit. EOS ones may allow some different types of governance structures."

Full Comment: https://steemit.com/smt/@jarvie/re-ammonite-pxmri2

- Nova

[markm]

With all due respect ...and I acknowledge there is respect due to you but in all honesty do you think these small trades we are seeing make a blind bit of difference to anything?

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

There is meat on the bone for anyone who wants to trade this coin.

Offering to buy stuff USING DeVCoins at "Latest Rates include file" prices:

Code:

BBQrate=.10642991
sBCErate=122194.13437005
sBCIrate=16604.95827359
sBMCrate=17182.31524576
sBRFrate=19160.56156023
BTCrate=50915562.16800852
CDNrate=11853.54850924
CLCrate=10.69923899
sCMCrate=16982.19146354
sCRFrate=357314.36517039
CZBrate=75.85695378
DVCrate=1.00000000
sDVCrate=819799.18076541
FBXrate=66.18392706
sGDCrate=866317.42127127
sGFCrate=3101174.61839638
sGHCrate=220129.16113378
GMCrate=15390.57560383
GPLrate=9368.72901731
GPL2rate=7349.94430351
sGRCrate=955937.30888570
GRFrate=25641.20319105
GRPrate=159.26590934
sGRPrate=4398.34708282
I0Crate=403.95103121
IXCrate=408.51005477
LTCrate=345555.77394213
MBCrate=22653.10521671
NKLrate=412.78585346
NMCrate=2854.83555751
SPICErate=9851.97588323
TBXrate=66.18392706
UFCrate=41.72313517
UKBrate=11077.47586485
UNSrate=11655.16271460
USFrate=17.26473291
XGGrate=32.31708393

The main bottleneck making trades on the scale of $100,000 at a time awkward is simply that I do not actually have that much DeVCoin on hand to buy things with.

I only have about half a billion or less DeVCoins across various platforms (including the actual DeVCoin blockchain) so to pump $100,000 of value through DeVCoin currently would require several transactions, with some method of re-acquiring DeVCoins between each spend of them, unless you would like to sell me $100,000 worth of DeVCoin for some other things on the above list.

I only have limited quantities of each asset, heck some of those shown I have none of personally right at this moment. But there are some of them that I would be willing to trade $100,000 worth of FOR DeVCoins at these prices. So if you would like to help grow the liquidity, thus enabling higher volumes to be easier to achieve, maybe you can sell me some DeVCoins for other things on the above list?

$100,000 CAD seems to amount to about 367633542.88400000 DeVCoins at these prices, the zeroes on the end result from my calculations being at scale=8, that is, 8-decimals accuracy.

In order to increase liquidity I would love to buy 367633542.88400000 DeVCoins using various assets from this list.

Maybe I could interest you in a spread of the Galactic Big Seven currencies CDN, GMC, GRF, MBC, NKL, UKB, and UNS ?

-MarkM-

[hornetsnest]

With all due respect ...and I acknowledge there is respect due to you but in all honesty do you think these small trades we are seeing make a blind bit of difference to anything?

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

There is meat on the bone for anyone who wants to trade this coin.

Offering to buy stuff USING DeVCoins at "Latest Rates include file" prices:

Code:

BBQrate=.10642991
sBCErate=122194.13437005
sBCIrate=16604.95827359
sBMCrate=17182.31524576
sBRFrate=19160.56156023
BTCrate=50915562.16800852
CDNrate=11853.54850924
CLCrate=10.69923899
sCMCrate=16982.19146354
sCRFrate=357314.36517039
CZBrate=75.85695378
DVCrate=1.00000000
sDVCrate=819799.18076541
FBXrate=66.18392706
sGDCrate=866317.42127127
sGFCrate=3101174.61839638
sGHCrate=220129.16113378
GMCrate=15390.57560383
GPLrate=9368.72901731
GPL2rate=7349.94430351
sGRCrate=955937.30888570
GRFrate=25641.20319105
GRPrate=159.26590934
sGRPrate=4398.34708282
I0Crate=403.95103121
IXCrate=408.51005477
LTCrate=345555.77394213
MBCrate=22653.10521671
NKLrate=412.78585346
NMCrate=2854.83555751
SPICErate=9851.97588323
TBXrate=66.18392706
UFCrate=41.72313517
UKBrate=11077.47586485
UNSrate=11655.16271460
USFrate=17.26473291
XGGrate=32.31708393

The main bottleneck making trades on the scale of $100,000 at a time awkward is simply that I do not actually have that much DeVCoin on hand to buy things with.

I only have about half a billion or less DeVCoins across various platforms (including the actual DeVCoin blockchain) so to pump $100,000 of value through DeVCoin currently would require several transactions, with some method of re-acquiring DeVCoins between each spend of them, unless you would like to sell me $100,000 worth of DeVCoin for some other things on the above list.

I only have limited quantities of each asset, heck some of those shown I have none of personally right at this moment. But there are some of them that I would be willing to trade $100,000 worth of FOR DeVCoins at these prices. So if you would like to help grow the liquidity, thus enabling higher volumes to be easier to achieve, maybe you can sell me some DeVCoins for other things on the above list?

$100,000 CAD seems to amount to about 367633542.88400000 DeVCoins at these prices, the zeroes on the end result from my calculations being at scale=8, that is, 8-decimals accuracy.

In order to increase liquidity I would love to buy 367633542.88400000 DeVCoins using various assets from this list.

Maybe I could interest you in a spread of the Galactic Big Seven currencies CDN, GMC, GRF, MBC, NKL, UKB, and UNS ?

-MarkM-

How many NMC does 100m DVC get you?

[Traxo]

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

Volume is basically a fraudulent metric. What matters is to be able to see demand, so that you are sure that you can sell at any time. You need deep buy-side so that coin has value.
What good is $100,000 daily volume when that's just bots trading with each other so that when noobs sort-by volume most fraudulent coin pops up first on the list?

Tho I guess decent volume would come in handy to get listed on CMC, but whatever.
(Maybe coinmarketcap should only list coins which has buy-side $50,000 or more?)

You need price discovery, not volume.

[markm]

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

Volume is basically a fraudulent metric. What matters is to be able to see demand, so that you are sure that you can sell at any time. You need deep buy-side so that coin has value.
What good is $100,000 daily volume when that's just bots trading with each other so that when noobs sort-by volume most fraudulent coin pops up first on the list?

Tho I guess decent volume would come in handy to get listed on CMC, but whatever.
(Maybe coinmarketcap should only list coins which has buy-side $50,000 or more?)

You need price discovery, not volume.

Yes, exactly. LIQUIDITY not VOLUME. Liquidity is how much you CAN buy or sell. Volume is how much actually gets bought or sold, and it consumes liquidity.

It is the difference between makers and takers, makers create liquidity by putting orders onto the order-books. Takers wipe offers off of the order-books by taking the offer.

Historically within the game most large trades are done between individuals or (the representatives of) groups, not on the "spot markets"; if the spot markets seem to be working well as a way to discover fair value then the couple making a deal can use them to arrive at a deal they both like, but using computed values based on the "treasuries" of the currencies means they can see when spot prices seem "out of line" with "underlying value" and they have a value per coin across all the coins, a "unit of account" so to speak, whereas looking at spot markets you only see a value for a few instances of the coin, not every last one of them. So with spot markets some of the "fungibility" of the coin is lost, this one on this market is worth a different amount than that one on that market, the coins are in a kind of sense not "fungible".

The computed values let you go like ah ok the total value of all the coin minted is X that is why the value for this 1000 of them is Y, instead of the other way around. We are in a way computing value per coin from the actual "market capitalisation" aka the treasury, which is certainly the "capitalisation" if not strictly speaking the "market capitalisation".

-MarkM-

[Traxo]

DevCoin Admin Roll Call

Also, who is monitoring the share list? http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitcoin_share_list
It appears that authors of some projects which are seemingly abandoned, are still receiving rewards for some reason? (I guess that specific admin is also still getting paid, ironic, lol)  

I presume we still use https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity so I guess it needs to be updated?

[Vlad2Vlad]

DevCoin Admin Roll Call

Also, who is monitoring the share list? http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitcoin_share_list
It appears that authors of some projects which are seemingly abandoned, are still receiving rewards for some reason? (I guess that specific admin is also still getting paid, ironic, lol)  

I presume we still use https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity so I guess it needs to be updated?

Ye.

And speaking of updates...I like:

www.traxo.me

 

[novacadian]

DevCoin Admin Roll Call

Also, who is monitoring the share list? http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitcoin_share_list
It appears that authors of some projects which are seemingly abandoned, are still receiving rewards for some reason? (I guess that specific admin is also still getting paid, ironic, lol)  

I presume we still use https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity so I guess it needs to be updated?

Once the week extension of the Admin Roll Call expires a list of those which had not been responsive will be submitted to develCuy for removal from the share list. The hope is that the next round will include only active admins with the continued, temporary, moratorium on DevTome rewards. Attention shall then be given to project support.

- Nova

[realdantreccia]

DevCoin Admin Roll Call

Also, who is monitoring the share list? http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitcoin_share_list
It appears that authors of some projects which are seemingly abandoned, are still receiving rewards for some reason? (I guess that specific admin is also still getting paid, ironic, lol)  

I presume we still use https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity so I guess it needs to be updated?

Ye.

And speaking of updates...I like:

www.traxo.me

 

Dear God I love to mooch.

[Vlad2Vlad]

DevCoin Admin Roll Call

Also, who is monitoring the share list? http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=bitcoin_share_list
It appears that authors of some projects which are seemingly abandoned, are still receiving rewards for some reason? (I guess that specific admin is also still getting paid, ironic, lol)  

I presume we still use https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity so I guess it needs to be updated?

Ye.

And speaking of updates...I like:

www.traxo.me

 

Dear God I love to mooch.

Hey, it beats eating sh1t sammiches and day drinkin’.  :/

[hornetsnest]

Unless a coin is actually traded on a high volume exchange with at least USD 100k in volume ,(that is a very modest daily trading volume) how do you expect anyone to bother trading it.

Volume is basically a fraudulent metric. What matters is to be able to see demand, so that you are sure that you can sell at any time. You need deep buy-side so that coin has value.
What good is $100,000 daily volume when that's just bots trading with each other so that when noobs sort-by volume most fraudulent coin pops up first on the list?

Tho I guess decent volume would come in handy to get listed on CMC, but whatever.
(Maybe coinmarketcap should only list coins which has buy-side $50,000 or more?)

You need price discovery, not volume.

Yes I agree.I normally state volume/liquidity together so I stand corrected in this case.I also stand another point and that is "its all about money"  

~"just here for the tech"
~Pinocchio

[orimar]

Well. Why will Altilly delist DVC? What happened?

I think its due to no movement of the coin. also it seems someone is hoarding the coin and wants to do a "fake coin" on loan while they hold their coins, is what i read above. at least that is how i read it. lol seems shady either way.

[orimar]

any help with mac os wallet? still have yet to find any help and the wallet that is on the devcoin website looks ancient and hard to use. where can i store my dvc until something is better built? any cold storage as it feels like my coins are not safe.

[novacadian]

any help with mac os wallet? still have yet to find any help and the wallet that is on the devcoin website looks ancient and hard to use. where can i store my dvc until something is better built? any cold storage as it feels like my coins are not safe.

If you find the Mac version unusable you could always make a dual Ubuntu boot (or even a boot-able Ubuntu memory stick). My Ubuntu runs a Linux DVC wallet flawlessly.You could then put the stick in cold storage. Hope that may work as a temporary solution.

- Nova

[realdantreccia]

any help with mac os wallet? still have yet to find any help and the wallet that is on the devcoin website looks ancient and hard to use. where can i store my dvc until something is better built? any cold storage as it feels like my coins are not safe.

Get a cheap PC, Windows wallet works great.