Merit & new rank requirements

[BlackHatCoiner]

As a newbie, I literally have no idea about this Merit system. It's been a long time since I've created this account though. Can anyone tell me how do I get started?

Based on your activity I can see that you weren't an active member.

How to get started.. Hmm, how about creating useful posts? Or just discuss with the other members. This way your activity will increase. Your merits not guaranteed.

[1714888346]

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[starseeker]

As a newbie, I literally have no idea about this Merit system. It's been a long time since I've created this account though. Can anyone tell me how do I get started?

Based on your activity I can see that you weren't an active member.

How to get started.. Hmm, how about creating useful posts? Or just discuss with the other members. This way your activity will increase. Your merits not guaranteed.

So merits are just "likes" for useful posts. Am I right in thinking so?

[JayJuanGee]

As a newbie, I literally have no idea about this Merit system. It's been a long time since I've created this account though. Can anyone tell me how do I get started?

Based on your activity I can see that you weren't an active member.

How to get started.. Hmm, how about creating useful posts? Or just discuss with the other members. This way your activity will increase. Your merits not guaranteed.

So merits are just "likes" for useful posts. Am I right in thinking so?

Yes.., more or less that is what merits are,  and they help members to achieve higher ranks, too, in the even that you want to rank up.

Ranking up is not necessary in order for members to be able to participate in most of the regular areas of the forum in terms of posting and reading posts (except there are rank requirements for posting in a few of the sections within serious discussions and maybe some other special areas of the forum).  Most signature campaigns have rank and/or merit requirements and some other forum related ventures (such as bounty campaigns) might have minimum merit requirements, too..  Personally, I am not very familiar with bounty areas.

[erikoy]

The forum was somehow change into something great after the introduction of rank and merit system. It is difficult to average poster to rank up unless one wanted so by posting or usually starting a thread that might trigger merit source to give merits to that posts.

Giving merits has no standard for it is only the prerogative of the one holding smerits to it or not depending on how the posts affect himself. However, being in member in rank is already an achievement here in the forum being an average posters. I think what is best is being here in the forum. Actively participating in discussions and learning to it.

My point is that having the rank and merit system change the way that users behave. Extending arms to those who seek for help in understanding especially in the basics of cryptocurrency.

[JayJuanGee]

The forum was somehow change into something great after the introduction of rank and merit system. It is difficult to average poster to rank up unless one wanted so by posting or usually starting a thread that might trigger merit source to give merits to that posts.

Giving merits has no standard for it is only the prerogative of the one holding smerits to it or not depending on how the posts affect himself. However, being in member in rank is already an achievement here in the forum being an average posters. I think what is best is being here in the forum. Actively participating in discussions and learning to it.

My point is that having the rank and merit system change the way that users behave. Extending arms to those who seek for help in understanding especially in the basics of cryptocurrency.

As you may know, the forum's ranking system did exist prior to the implementation of the merit system.  The merit system was implemented on January 24, 2018, as you can verify that from the OP of this thread.

Implicitly, you are correct that the merit system was intended to affect the behavior of members (at least in terms of attempting to filter out some kinds of negative behaviors such as spamming, shilling and account farming). 

Seems that the merit system was not directly intended to punish the regular users, even though it does seem to have an effect of rewarding the kinds of posts that other users find useful, helpful and/or entertaining. 

Sure, there is a certain amount of subjectivity in how merits are sent - even though there was likely a goal that the merit system would bring UP the quality of posts of the membership, overall, an it seems to me that member posts have improved since the implementation of the merit system (other members have also reported that they believe that post quality has improved overall after the implementation of the merit system).

I did a quick glance at your post history erikoy, and generally, you do seem to have helpful posts, so I am NOT sure why you have not been receiving more merits with the passage of time - perhaps you had been posting a lot in the altcoin section (seems that to be the case in quite a bit of your forum history), and there might not be as many merit sources that spend time in those sections... but of course, you are free to believe whatever you will in terms of the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins.. I am not really sure - especially since I only did a quick look at your posts.

[Timelord2067]

So merits are just "likes" for useful posts. Am I right in thinking so?

Very much so.  You only have to look to the volumes of merits the merit sources gift each other, or, to those they are trying to give a helping hand to rank up (instead of letting the system work as intended).  Another one to look at are the merit sources who will dump seven or eight merits to nearly all users (because they can't find enough posts to merit) then dial back to just one merit to those they are in despute with.

...and it's not just "useful" posts that are showered with merits either.

[JayJuanGee]

So merits are just "likes" for useful posts. Am I right in thinking so?

Very much so.  You only have to look to the volumes of merits the merit sources gift each other, or, to those they are trying to give a helping hand to rank up (instead of letting the system work as intended).  Another one to look at are the merit sources who will dump seven or eight merits to nearly all users (because they can't find enough posts to merit) then dial back to just one merit to those they are in despute with.

...and it's not just "useful" posts that are showered with merits either.

Any suggestions on how to improve some of those dynamics that you have identified, timelord?

Maybe more merit sources, or rotate merit sources?

Or scrap the whole system?

Would you speculate that the merit system helped the forum at all since its January 2018 implementation, or did the merit system make the forum worse?

[Timelord2067]

I've said in posts elsewhere that I think the merit system is a great thing as it has become harder for people to sell lower end accounts.

I like your suggestion of rotating merit sources in much the same way the DT 1 are "chosen" - each month. Perhaps a strict rule no more than two months in then an automatic one month out then the fourth month you are in the pool of randomly selected.

If a merit source can't find enough posts to merit, then don't just dump what you have just because you have them.

...any suggestions...?

It might sound draconian but cancell all merits gifted between merit sources.

[JayJuanGee]

I've said in posts elsewhere that I think the merit system is a great thing as it has become harder for people to sell lower end accounts.

I like your suggestion of rotating merit sources in much the same way the DT 1 are "chosen" - each month. Perhaps a strict rule no more than two months in then an automatic one month out then the fourth month you are in the pool of randomly selected.

In theory, your rendition of a rotation of merit sources sounds like it could work; however, factually and theoretically based on such facts, there seems to be a lot of difficulties already.

I can theorize at least three difficulties:

1) We had already seen that theymos seems to be having difficulties establishing any kind of decently large sized pool of merit sources that he is willing to assign.  He started out with something like 35 merit sources, and he intermittently increased the merit sources to about 130, one year later (or maybe less than a year later).  In the past year, the number of merit sources has only been 100, so the pool seems a bit small, anyhow.

2) Let's say hypothetically theymos could get up to a higher number of merit sources, 200 or 300, then you would be suggesting to rotate those merit sources in and out.. seems a bit logistically problematic but also could create a lot of confusion and even de-spirit merit sources from wanting to engage in the process. 

3) A lot of extra work for theymos to administer, and since the merit system runs on a kind of algorithm, it seems that duty periods should be longer than 4 months, just to let the algorithm run out for a while and the merit source to get some bearings about what is happening - but then even theymos might still haver difficulties in monitoring such a system that would be changing so frequently.

I don't want to be a party poop, but just seems like a bit of an administrative nightmare and also one that would create a lot of frustration to merit sources, assuming that they are even able to get used to the various periodic changes.

If a merit source can't find enough posts to merit, then don't just dump what you have just because you have them.

Of course, theymos can remove merit source status for any members who seem to be engaging in abuses, but if they are periodically dumping more merits than they "should be dumping" then how would theymos even know the difference between too much dumping?  He would just know it when he sees it?

I have always had a policy to just spend 1 merit per post, with the exception of 2 or three merits from time to time, but even I have found that giving one merit per post can take a lot of time, sometimes, and sometimes I just feel that I do not have that much time to be reading posts.

I recall a few months after the merit system was implemented, theymos said that merit sources should give lump sum merits whenever they could.  I never really employed such a strategy of giving merits, even though theymos proclaimed that giving lump sum merits would be a good way to send merits.

...any suggestions...?

It might sound draconian but cancell all merits gifted between merit sources.

I agree with your presumption that merit sources are likely to receive some merit sources because they are merit sources, but you really believe that it would be practical to have a rule against merit sources sending merits to other merit sources?  As you likely realize, there is not even any kind of official forum acknowledgement regarding who are the merit sources, even though Coin-1 maintains an unofficial thread in which he attempts to identify merit sources, whether they had admitted to being merit sources or his algorithm had detected that they are merit sources.  Again, that is not even an official forum acknowledgement, and surely some of the merit sources could change from time to time, too... even though Coin-1 attempts to announce any detections or even announcements on a monthly basis.

I am having troubles with really considering theymos to be motivated to implement your suggested changes, and of course, like anyone else I have troubles reading theymos's mind, unless he actually directly addresses the matter. 

There had been speculation that theymos might make changes to merit sources 6 months after the last changes (last changes or major changes were in November 2019), yet the last changes were nearly 10 months ago.   I think that some of the reluctancies to make changes to the merit system is that it can become a bit complicated to make changes including trade offs, and still it some sense to figure out ways to increase the number of merit sources, rather than creating systems (or subsystems) that just create more administrative complications without any kind of clear and probable benefit to perhaps resolve some of the problems that you, timelord, are perceiving.. to the extent that theymos might perceive those as meaningful and material problems, too (which might be a BIG presumption). 

It is likely that any changes that theymos does make would attempt to remove or add merit sources to attempt to achieve or improve some kinds of semblance of fairness in the way that merits are being spent by merit sources to the extent that fairness might not already sufficiently exist... and of course, again, if there is a sense that merit sources are abusive in their spending of merit sources, then theymos has the ability to unilaterally remove those members as a merit source or reduce the quantity of their source (to the extent that he knows about the alleged problem and agrees that such a problem exists with one or more merit source member(s)).

[hd49728]

As a newbie, I literally have no idea about this Merit system. It's been a long time since I've created this account though. Can anyone tell me how do I get started?

You are not a newbie in crypto and on the forum. You created your account in 2017, years ago.

You can see in OP of this thread, the main goal of merit system is help useful members to rank up and to highlight good posts with merit. It is what merit and smerit were created for. I don't know where you were last 3 years but your posts are not shit posts and if you keep up your contributions you will get merit for your works. When you can be named in The future of Bitcointalk you will get more attention of merit sources.

There are some merit giveaway on the forum and you can apply your good posts. Use Search to find them.

[LoyceV]

You only have to look to the volumes of merits the merit sources gift each other, or, to those they are trying to give a helping hand to rank up (instead of letting the system work as intended).

That's exactly how theymos intended the Merit system:

But undoubtedly some people got screwed by this, and if they have decent posts, by all means, give them the 250 or 500 merit that they need to rank-up.

Another one to look at are the merit sources who will dump seven or eight merits to nearly all users (because they can't find enough posts to merit)

That too follows theymos' intention:

If they complain about amounts, tell them to complain to me. It's best if sources try to exhaust their source allocations, even if it means giving posts higher amounts than is typical. If you have 150 source merit and you only see 3 merit-worthy posts in a month, then I'd rather you over-give each of them 50 merit than let the merit expire. That way there are more people capable of sending merit, and the "merit economy" is less top-down.

then dial back to just one merit to those they are in despute with.

Can you show some examples? I can only speak for myself, but I feel like I'm more careful sending a large amount at once to a Newbie who makes one good post than to more established users.

...and it's not just "useful" posts that are showered with merits either.

Sarcasm works too, or just posts that say a lot about the person making it. For new users, all I'm looking for is "a real user", for instance asking a real question about a real problem. That's what this forum needs, and those users aren't the spammers that were the reason the Merit system was introduced.

I like your suggestion of rotating merit sources in much the same way the DT 1 are "chosen" - each month. Perhaps a strict rule no more than two months in then an automatic one month out then the fourth month you are in the pool of randomly selected.

What does that solve? There's no reason to deny good Merit sources their sMerit for a month. If they're doing a good job, they should continue, and if they're doing bad, they should be removed completely, not just for a month.

If a merit source can't find enough posts to merit, then don't just dump what you have just because you have them.

Why not? As a Merit source, it often feels like a burden to get rid of source sMerits. A few days ago, I finally managed to empty it, and now I have 106 of them waiting again! The sooner I get rid of them, the sooner they'll replenish and thus the more I can send to forum users.

It might sound draconian but cancell all merits gifted between merit sources.

Why? Merit sources can make good posts too, and when Meriting a post, I couldn't care less if someone is a Merit source or not. It may even discourage people from wanting to become a Merit source.
While we're on the subject: have you applied to be a Merit source yet?

1) We had already seen that theymos seems to be having difficulties establishing any kind of decently large sized pool of merit sources that he is willing to assign.  He started out with something like 35 merit sources, and he intermittently increased the merit sources to about 130, one year later (or maybe less than a year later).  In the past year, the number of merit sources has only been 100, so the pool seems a bit small, anyhow.

At the last change, inactive Merit sources were removed while active sources got their sMerit amount increased. Those changes lead to more sMerit being distributed.

I have always had a policy to just spend 1 merit per post, with the exception of 2 or three merits from time to time, but even I have found that giving one merit per post can take a lot of time, sometimes, and sometimes I just feel that I do not have that much time to be reading posts.

I started with 1 sMerit at a time, and even after my first source increase I sticked to that. But with 826 sMerit in 30 days I can't keep up that way. I used 4 at a time for a while, until I made the same mistake twice by sending 44 by accident. I now often send 6, so I can't accidentally send 66.
Suchmoon has been very busy with 2555 sMerit in 30 days!

[aesma]

Am I a merit hoarder ?

At the time the system was put in place I wasn't very active, I got 500 merit, but I don't know how many sMerits I got. At the moment I have a bit over 80 sMerits. I give them out, I'm just not trying to empty my stash (hodler mentality I guess). If I continue like that will some of them be "lost" or not ?

Thanks for the advice.

[jademaxsuy]

At the time the system was put in place I wasn't very active, I got 500 merit, but I don't know how many sMerits I got. At the moment I have a bit over 80 sMerits. I give them out, I'm just not trying to empty my stash (hodler mentality I guess). If I continue like that will some of them be "lost" or not ?

I think not take a look at this qoute below,

There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future.

Meaning that smerits are still there and it is up to you whether to send or not. You can try to check your smerits by clicking the merit button and you can see your smerit balance

You have (X) sendable merit (sMerit) which you can send to other people.

Giving merits means giving other the chance to rank up. Sad to say that not all will going to rank and it will depend on the user on how he will going share input that could be helpful to the forum or to the users. Most cases legend rank users were always helpful because of their knowledge, skills and experience here in the forum. Most of the time their posts are merited posts for its quality and they had high number of smerits. The good thing is that these users too are generous to low rank users. I myself were able to rank up and learn much because of them.

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>

-   You’ve been awarded 60 Merits, which gives you 30 sMerits to send.
-   You’ve already awarded 31 sMerits (27 are on your Merit history, and 4 additional sMerits you awarded over 120 days ago).
-   You state you’ve got a bit over 80 sMerits to go.
Therefore, your initial sMerit airdrop X was around:
X+30 = 80 + 31 -> x=81 sMerits or so.

You're not a horder, and no, they will not get lost, at least not for now. There is a remote possibility that this will be reconsidered:

<…> There is currently no decay, but if hoarding seems to become a problem, I might add it.

[suchmoon]

Suchmoon has been very busy with 2555 sMerit in 30 days!

2560, that's ATH, sell sell sell.

It's a very unfamiliar territory for me. I feel naked.


Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

[TheBeardedBaby]

Suchmoon has been very busy with 2555 sMerit in 30 days!

2560, that's ATH, sell sell sell.

It's a very unfamiliar territory for me. I feel naked.

Hohoho, shall I add you to my list?

[suchmoon]

Hohoho, shall I add you to my list?

Absolutely not, I worked very hard to get there and I prefer it that way 

[aesma]

OK thanks for your answers.

[Bthd]

Suchmoon has been very busy with 2555 sMerit in 30 days!

2560, that's ATH, sell sell sell.

It's a very unfamiliar territory for me. I feel naked.

5500 is better . i sent you and now you are not naked. Be more carefull, dont lose it  

[tunaduong]

I have just joined bitcoin talk for a while. Although I just go to see information and do bounty, but I still do not understand how to get merit and how to get it. please explain to help me understand this problem. thank you all.