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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 150851 times)
CryptopreneurBrainboss
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May 03, 2019, 07:09:32 AM
 #5921

That's simple because, there isn't enough quality posts been created. You don't expect meriters to hand out merits to undeserving posts (in their opinion) just because we want more merits in circulation.
That is exactly what theymos wants Merit sources to do:

Speaking directly about those that have spendable sMerit. Merit sources have an obligation to spend their smerits allocated to them that's why theymos gave that suggestion but the average users doesn't have that obligation. People are always too quick to complain about lack of merit circulation forgetting about the possible cause of that which is lack of quality contributions to award the merits to. No doubt much merit aren't circulating around but if we were that low on circulation of merit I'm sure theymos won't have hesitated in appointing new sources from the numerous of applications we have on meta (including mine).

@fillippone what burns lol. Its been long we encountered each other. I always link a thread relating to my thread or any other source when I see the need for one. If it does help numerous forum members, I don't see an issue with that.
I've been closely following your posts for some months now and I just have to say that they are definitely above par,and I admire the way you construct your posts always with links to make things clearer and easily understandable for readers.

Hardwork sure pays off and you're testament to that,congratulations mate!, keep it up





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LoyceV
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May 03, 2019, 07:17:47 AM
 #5922

the average users doesn't have that obligation.
I am both Merit source and average user too. My source is empty, my personal stash currently holds 460 sMerit. I feel less "pressure" to empty my earned sMerit than emptying my source.

Bitcoin_Arena
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May 03, 2019, 07:30:51 AM
 #5923

That is exactly what theymos wants Merit sources to do:
It's best if sources try to exhaust their source allocations, even if it means giving posts higher amounts than is typical. If you have 150 source merit and you only see 3 merit-worthy posts in a month, then I'd rather you over-give each of them 50 merit than let the merit expire. That way there are more people capable of sending merit, and the "merit economy" is less top-down.
I have seen him try to lead by example by handing out 50 merits to good posts a few times
Certain merit sources have been doing great work too. The most noticeable are you and Suchmoon.

I think the major problem that has not been much looked into is people who receive merit, and they don't circulate it.
Also, there is unequal distribution of merit in different boards.
Sometimes one can make a very good contribution in altcoin boards or even trading or bitcoin discussion and the post will goes unnoticed because most merit sources ignore those boards. The few people who post in those boards barely have any sMerits to distribute it.





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fillippone
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May 03, 2019, 07:42:55 AM
 #5924

the average users doesn't have that obligation.
I am both Merit source and average user too. My source is empty, my personal stash currently holds 460 sMerit. I feel less "pressure" to empty my earned sMerit than emptying my source.

I might be vastly wrong here, but I think what Theymos meant is that ideally, sMerits for all users should be always near zero.
 
Of course he can put "pressure" on merit sources only, but I think he would like this "spending spree" to trickle down the forum also.
He said multiple time he puts merit circulation above objective quality posts rewarding: he said, (sorry if I am lazy not to actually quote the message) he has no problem with user rewarding 50 merits over "nice post" messages, just to have merits circulating and a less top/down approach.

I also wrote a guide on how to write good quality posts and how to get merits on good and knowledgeable posts, instead of adding spam to the forum, but this might not always be the case.

Please correct me if  I am wrong.

@CryptopreneurBrainboss: my remark was in a light spirited way, not meaning to offend you and your good effort in the forum. My ironic approach might have been misunderstood for sarcasm. Yeah, difficult to spot the difference according to Poe's law.


DdmrDdmr
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May 03, 2019, 08:14:26 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5925

<…>Speaking directly about those that have spendable sMerit. Merit sources have an obligation to spend their smerits allocated to them that's why theymos gave that suggestion but the average users doesn't have that obligation.<…>
It’s not really an obligation for Merit Sources, but rather a responsibility which is time consuming at times. Nevertheless, Merit Source allocation may be adjusted at some point (by @Theymos), as it seemed to have been done a few months ago, making a better alignment between allocation and awarding history (upping some and possibly lowering others).

The average user should also try to award merits and not hoard them. After all, the system would be way better in my opinion if it were to be less Merit Source dependent and more of a general forum member thing.
Here though the average person will not really have many sMerits to go by (not including in this comment all the allocated undistributed airdropped sMerits), and may treasure them at times in a quid pro quo kind of scenario.

TMAN
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May 03, 2019, 08:23:03 AM
 #5926

the average users doesn't have that obligation.
I am both Merit source and average user too. My source is empty, my personal stash currently holds 460 sMerit. I feel less "pressure" to empty my earned sMerit than emptying my source.

source and earned merits are at 0... only way to roll

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TheBeardedBaby
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May 03, 2019, 08:30:28 AM
Merited by tyz (1), LoyceV (1)
 #5927

I can speak as an average user as I'm not a merit source even that I've given more than 400 merits .
I always try to keep like 2-3 smerit if I suddenly find a extraordinary post. It happened a few times til now but on the regular basis If I get some merit, I send away most of them.
Even in the merit page is written that "There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future". So at the moment I'm on 0 and I feel the relief.





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LoyceV
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May 03, 2019, 09:00:21 AM
 #5928

So at the moment I'm on 0 and I feel the relief.
I've literally never reached that point, it was a relief already to empty my source. It quickly piles up if I'm less active for a few days.

bones261
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May 03, 2019, 01:20:48 PM
 #5929

So at the moment I'm on 0 and I feel the relief.
I've literally never reached that point, it was a relief already to empty my source. It quickly piles up if I'm less active for a few days.

I regularly empty my source and smerit at around this time of the month. Bad pacing on my part. However, if you did the same, Loyce, you would pass me in the rankings of most generous merit senders and I would never be able to catch up. You are a merit-earning machine.
tranthidung
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May 05, 2019, 11:01:10 PM
Last edit: May 06, 2019, 01:59:04 AM by tranthidung
 #5930

Update:

Time series plots:

(1) Intra-day merits:
Full dataset:

Truncated dataset:

(2) Merits over days of week:
Outliers displayed as red circles.

Outliers non-displayed.

(3) Median and interquartile range of intra-day merits over weeks

(4) Intra-week merits:

For more details, please get them there:
Time Series Analysis on Distributed Merits in the forum (daily, weekly, monthly)
Observation on interquartile range of intra-day merits with time series plot





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PedroSuketteki
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May 06, 2019, 05:13:54 PM
 #5931

In addition to activity, everyone now has a merit score, and you need both a certain activity level and a certain merit score in order to reach higher member ranks. The required scores are:

RankRequired activityRequired merit
Brand new00
Newbie10
Jr Member301
Member6010
Full Member120100
Sr. Member240250
Hero Member480500
LegendaryRandom in the range 775-10301000

You get merit points when someone sends you some for one of your posts. Additionally, when someone sends you merit points, half of those points can be sent by you to other people.

Certain users are designated as "merit sources". They can create new merit out of nothing, up to a limited number per month (which differs per source). I will not be posting a definitive list of merit sources (so that people don't bug them too much), though you'll soon figure out who they are if you pay attention.

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

Do not beg for merit excessively.

Useful infographics

Forum users have helpfully created some infographics to explain the merit system:
paxmao's infographic
ibminer's infographic
8Habits's infographic
JetSet11's infographic
zentdex's infographic
alia_armelle's infographic

If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.

Trivia:

For current members, your initial merit score is equal to the minimum required to your rank. Of that, a certain amount (less than the usual half) is spendable. The spendable amount was calculated based on your current rank and the number of activity points you earned in the last year. A Legendary member who hasn't posted in the last year would still be Legendary, but would not have any spendable merit.

If someone sends you 1 merit, the 0.5 sMerit is not wasted; it is just not shown until you get another merit point.

There are stats here, and you can find someone's merit summary by clicking the "merit" link on their profile.


the new merit system is likely to be misused by irresponsible people to get some personal benefits. like giving merit to his multi account to increase account rank. and maybe sell merit services to someone who really needs merit who is willing to pay for it. how does the admin team detect this fraud Huh so the forum avoided the monopoly of certain people. just a few of my opinions.
TheBeardedBaby
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May 06, 2019, 09:09:02 PM
 #5932


the new merit system is likely to be misused by irresponsible people to get some personal benefits. like giving merit to his multi account to increase account rank. and maybe sell merit services to someone who really needs merit who is willing to pay for it. how does the admin team detect this fraud Huh so the forum avoided the monopoly of certain people. just a few of my opinions.

Can you point out those cases you are talking about?
Most of the abusers got caught, the community constantly monitor the merit transfers.





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tranthidung
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May 06, 2019, 10:40:00 PM
 #5933

~ or ~snip  or < ... > or .... etc
-snip-
There are so many ways to hide unused contents when you want to quote someone esle posts or OPs. There is no reason to fully quote the OP like this. People here read the OP posted by theymos many times since Jan. of 2018.

Most of newbies complained about this, me too. Because at the beginning of merit system, to be honest, I felt like my life 'ruined', but as you saw, I have been a Senior Member now. You should rank up with merit system, it is just a matter of time, in case you actually mature over time.
Mature means, reading more, learning more, improving your post quality, maintaining this good posting habit over time. Then all will be fine because merits will naturally come to you.
I looked at your post history, 9/19 posts are one-lined posts, the rest are two-lined posts. You won't get merit for such shitposts, it's the fact!

Please stop complaining and start growing.





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tranthidung
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Activity: 1008
Merit: 1931



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May 12, 2019, 09:39:17 AM
 #5934

Update:

Time series plots:

(1) Intra-day merits:
Full dataset:

Truncated dataset:

(2) Merits over days of week:
Outliers displayed as red circles.

Outliers non-displayed.

(3) Median and interquartile range of intra-day merits over weeks

(4) Intra-week merits:

For more details, please get them there:
Time Series Analysis on Distributed Merits in the forum (daily, weekly, monthly)
Observation on interquartile range of intra-day merits with time series plot





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erikalui
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May 13, 2019, 12:27:16 PM
 #5935

I noticed that since merits given cannot be removed, the merits given for topics that have been deleted also exist in the user's account. Since such deleted posts get deducted from the post count, shouldn't the merits given for such posts also be deducted?
DdmrDdmr
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There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain


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May 13, 2019, 01:06:01 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5936

<…>
It’s been a topic that has been discussed in the past a few times, for example here:

Merit for Deleted Posts
Disable delete option from merited post
Combine merit abuse with delete post and you are good to go

The current stance remains on not deleting merits on deleted posts. I make merits tied to deleted posts a maximum of 5% of all historical awarded sMerits, and just over 1% of that awarded during 2019 so far.

I figure, if the amount is not too representative, the option taken was to preserve them on the accounts, regardless of the posts being deleted themselves. There are likely many reasons for this to happen (merit abuse hiding prove, deleted thread where you placed a decent post or answer, and so on). Lesser evil prevailed.

I’ve personally received 5 sMerits on what seem to now be deleted posts. I can’t recall the exact posts, but I believe at least one of them was merited after replying to a plagiarized post, which ultimately led to the thread being deleted.

tranthidung
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May 13, 2019, 02:12:16 PM
 #5937

I noticed that since merits given cannot be removed, the merits given for topics that have been deleted also exist in the user's account. Since such deleted posts get deducted from the post count, shouldn't the merits given for such posts also be deducted?
Only serious merit abused cases will see actions of theymos (admin) to revert abused merits. However, in such cases, negative number of merits will be shown. I knew there is one merit source removed months ago with reversion of all merit abusements related to that source.





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tspmhack6
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May 13, 2019, 03:29:21 PM
 #5938

Indeed to receive Merit, there should be quality contributions. So I think why we don't have the "Like" button. Based on the number of Likes, up to one limit the quality of the post user will receive Merit.
Example:  10 Like = 1 Merit
What do you think about that idea?
Halab
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May 13, 2019, 04:11:03 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5939

What do you think about that idea?

Certainly already proposed many times and too easy to abuse by creating an army of alt accounts.
Deal with it, the merit system in its current form is the least worst solution against spam.

JayJuanGee
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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May 13, 2019, 04:24:52 PM
 #5940

Indeed to receive Merit, there should be quality contributions. So I think why we don't have the "Like" button. Based on the number of Likes, up to one limit the quality of the post user will receive Merit.
Example:  10 Like = 1 Merit
What do you think about that idea?

Seems to me that you are mentally fighting the existing system and the direction that this forum has chosen to take.

The forum is not going to go down the path of either unlimited "likes" or some other untethered mechanism  to allow any account to earn "merits" because such unfetteredness has already proven problematic, so the current merit system is an attempt to get a handle on the unfetteredness that comes from farmed accounts.

In other words, your proposal is not going to go anywhere because it fails/refuses to attempt to address actual issues and motivations behind the current merit system.

What do you think about that idea?

Certainly already proposed many times and too easy to abuse by creating an army of alt accounts.
Deal with it, the merit system in its current form is the least worst solution against spam.

Hahahahaha...

More or less Halab beat me to it....  Wink

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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