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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 157781 times)
MagicSmoker
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October 12, 2018, 09:39:52 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), LoyceV (1), redsn0w (1), BTCforJoe (1)
 #5301

I think the vast majority of people are going to have a lot of trouble getting any merit. Thus far, the majority of active contributors haven't received any merit. it like me.

Jeez, what a dumbass - I suspected plagiarism and, yep... turns out this post is a direct copy of one that was made earlier in this thread:

I think the vast majority of people are going to have a lot of trouble getting any merit. Thus far, the majority of active contributors haven't received any merit.

buh-bye.
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RivAngE
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October 12, 2018, 11:35:59 AM
 #5302

I think the vast majority of people are going to have a lot of trouble getting any merit. Thus far, the majority of active contributors haven't received any merit. it like me.

Jeez, what a dumbass - I suspected plagiarism and, yep... turns out this post is a direct copy of one that was made earlier in this thread:

I think the vast majority of people are going to have a lot of trouble getting any merit. Thus far, the majority of active contributors haven't received any merit.

buh-bye.

What gave him/her away? The fact that the first part of the sentence was in good English and the second part made no sense? Cheesy
LoyceV
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October 12, 2018, 11:44:07 AM
Merited by BTCforJoe (1)
 #5303

Jeez, what a dumbass ~
buh-bye.
I wasn't sure if you reported him, so I did it just to be sure.

It kinda makes me want to Merit him, just to add to the disappointment when he gets banned Cheesy

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October 12, 2018, 12:03:18 PM
 #5304

After ~10 months I can say merit system (imho) is working fine, the level of spam lowered and more & more users are getting banned everyday (autoban at https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php).

MagicSmoker
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October 12, 2018, 12:21:20 PM
 #5305

What gave him/her away? The fact that the first part of the sentence was in good English and the second part made no sense? Cheesy

Oddly enough, the initial trigger was that the post seemed out of context with the current discussion - merit has been around for nearly 9 months so "predicting" that most people are going to have trouble getting merit is no prediction at all. It was only after I had already decided to see if the post was plagiarized that I noticed the disparity in grammar between the first two sentences and that barely literate phrase tacked on the end.



I wasn't sure if you reported him, so I did it just to be sure.

It kinda makes me want to Merit him, just to add to the disappointment when he gets banned Cheesy

Have no fear, I *always* report plagiarism when I find it! But more reports are always better, as I have recently learned.

I want the current rumor among the spamming-class that "meta is the place to get dem maritz" to turn into "meta is the place to get yourself banned."
BTCforJoe
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October 12, 2018, 04:31:26 PM
 #5306

It kinda makes me want to Merit him, just to add to the disappointment when he gets banned Cheesy

If I had a ton of sMerit to give away, I would absolutely do this. I also thought of this as I was scrolling through his/her comments. Maybe I should waste a sMerit on him/her anyways? Cheesy

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October 14, 2018, 06:26:58 AM
 #5307

In addition to activity, everyone now has a merit score, and you need both a certain activity level and a certain merit score in order to reach higher member ranks. The required scores are:

RankRequired activityRequired merit
Brand new00
Newbie10
Jr Member301
Member6010
Full Member120100
Sr. Member240250
Hero Member480500
LegendaryRandom in the range 775-10301000

You get merit points when someone sends you some for one of your posts. Additionally, when someone sends you merit points, half of those points can be sent by you to other people.

Certain users are designated as "merit sources". They can create new merit out of nothing, up to a limited number per month (which differs per source). I will not be posting a definitive list of merit sources (so that people don't bug them too much), though you'll soon figure out who they are if you pay attention.

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

Do not beg for merit excessively.

Useful infographics

Forum users have helpfully created some infographics to explain the merit system:
paxmao's infographic
ibminer's infographic
8Habits's infographic
JetSet11's infographic
zentdex's infographic
alia_armelle's infographic

If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.

Trivia:

For current members, your initial merit score is equal to the minimum required to your rank. Of that, a certain amount (less than the usual half) is spendable. The spendable amount was calculated based on your current rank and the number of activity points you earned in the last year. A Legendary member who hasn't posted in the last year would still be Legendary, but would not have any spendable merit.

If someone sends you 1 merit, the 0.5 sMerit is not wasted; it is just not shown until you get another merit point.

There are stats here, and you can find someone's merit summary by clicking the "merit" link on their profile.
how can i become a copper member
k0er
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October 14, 2018, 06:41:12 AM
 #5308

how can i become a copper member
Find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5030366.msg45810047#msg45810047

YANDEX
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October 14, 2018, 10:54:17 PM
 #5309

Going down again!



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bones261
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October 14, 2018, 11:26:17 PM
 #5310

Going down again!



I suspect many of the merit sources are going to start getting their smerit coffers filling up again on the 17th. The rewarded smerits should be on the rise, soon.
LoyceV
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October 15, 2018, 06:01:15 AM
 #5311

I suspect many of the merit sources are going to start getting their smerit coffers filling up again on the 17th. The rewarded smerits should be on the rise, soon.
I don't think the spike in Merit distribution came from merit sources, I think it largely came from merit abusers sending to their alt accounts (or buyers). So going down to normal is a good thing.
Also, source Merit is refilled 30 days after sending, not once per month only. I sent Merit 27 times on September 15, so I expect 27 (small) refills today.

Piggy
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October 15, 2018, 07:25:05 AM
 #5312

I don't think the spike in Merit distribution came from merit sources, I think it largely came from merit abusers sending to their alt accounts (or buyers). So going down to normal is a good thing.
Also, source Merit is refilled 30 days after sending, not once per month only. I sent Merit 27 times on September 15, so I expect 27 (small) refills today.

I think is safe to assume it was caused primarily by abusers, some obvious to see and some not, otherwise would be pretty difficult to explain that spike.
In the light of these event, imo, it may be time to consider wiping the initial merits that were airdropped, if somebody didn't find a post to merit by now, probably never will.
DdmrDdmr
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October 15, 2018, 08:23:02 AM
 #5313

<...>
One thing that does not show, and that I did not point out in the comments when updating the Merit Dashboard is that, if we compare the most recent week with previous weeks with a similar number of awarded sMerits, the number of Senders is similar, but the number of Receivers and New Receivers is noticeably higher than those past weeks. 

01/10/2018 .. 17/10/2018 -> 4.325 Merits to 1.247 distinct people (506 merited for the first time-> 40,58%).
16/07/2018 .. 22/07/2018 -> 4.277 Merits to 964 distinct people (253 merited for the first time-> 26,24%).
02/07/2018 .. 08/07/2018 -> 4.377 Merits to 1.018 distinct people (290 merited for the first time-> 28,49%).

The reading is that, being the amount of merits the same, we are nearly double in terms of forum members who receive merit for the first time. That could be due to some alt meriting still going on or, hopefully, that more new players are being merited, in comparison to similar weeks in the past, due to some of them creating better content.

stompix
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October 15, 2018, 08:40:38 AM
 #5314

I don't think the spike in Merit distribution came from merit sources, I think it largely came from merit abusers sending to their alt accounts (or buyers). So going down to normal is a good thing.

My thoughts exactly, the new merit sources have only a small amount of sMerits (I think?) and I've seen accounts with red trust giving away more merit in a couple of days that some new sources have done. Checking how shitposters got their 1 merit was like checking why an account complaining in meta was banned, 99% plagiarism, and in this case 99% obvious merit abuse.

But there is always a good side, I'm so happy when a report is marked good and the victim is either a newly promoted jr or a copper member: Smiley Roll Eyes

The reading is that, being the amount of merits the same, we are nearly double in terms of forum members who receive merit for the first time. That could be due to some alt meriting still going on or, hopefully, that more new players are being merited, in comparison to similar weeks in the past, due to some of them creating better content.

I wouldn't say better...rather more!
And when I say more, an increase in the size of the posts, instead of one line of non-sense 5 lines of the same.

I don't know if it's the fear of getting banned for a two words post, new campaign requirements or merit fishing but lately, I'm seen a lot of newbies making walls of text saying nothing. I find those a lot more annoying as sometimes I'm tricked into spending time reading them just out of curiosity. Furthermore, it seems I never learn my lesson  Angry


In the light of these event, imo, it may be time to consider wiping the initial merits that were airdropped, if somebody didn't find a post to merit by now, probably never will.

A merit decay would be great, I always said that there are a lot of shitposters even in the higher ranks.
So, losing something like 25% of the initial merit over a period would be pretty nice.

Of course, there would be some weird cases, like seeing this guy as a jr member but I somehow doubt he will come back and ask for a bigger signature to get into working bounty.

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October 15, 2018, 09:42:05 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5315

If anything I believe this system just created yet one more way for higher ranks to keep monopoly over yet another "trust" system.

Let's face it, an un-established user would need to post either the cure to cancer, or to fork a cure to solve all unconfirmed bitcoin txs -and even then, MAYBE- he'll get one or two merits simply because he's not part of the top well-known 10% that browses Bitcointalk.

And because "merit sources" are obviously part of this 10%, it will only further benefit them into boosting their alts merit, making it harder and harder for members below the poverty line seniority line to make any money from sig campaigns, or any offers that take into account this account criteria.

It's really sad because I've had to deal with a lot of accounts, that are good, honest and serious people, but never really stand out because they don't intentionally deal with specific people to farm trust, or don't have some explosively booming business. (because guess what, unless you're already well known, no one is going to deal with you anyways! And vice versa, regardless of your offered service. No offense against TheButterZone, just trying to prove a point.)

What I'm trying to say is that it's easy to make constructive, well-written posts that contribute to the discussion, it's just that the majority of people doing it are incentivized. And I don't blame them, I wouldn't write a post like this unless I was paid for it, or I was emotionally invested into it.

So good job theymos, for once again increasing the entry barrier for any user without enough money to waste on an contemporary art piece or a lamborguini to boost his stats.

Beep boop beep boop
LoyceV
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October 15, 2018, 10:28:27 AM
 #5316

If anything I believe this system just created yet one more way for higher ranks to keep monopoly over yet another "trust" system.
That's quite a statement after being inactive for more than a year. Is it really that hard to believe this forum has a terrible spam problem, which has to be limited before all signature campaigns are banned entirely?

Quote
Let's face it, an un-established user would need to post either the cure to cancer, or to fork a cure to solve all unconfirmed bitcoin txs -and even then, MAYBE- he'll get one or two merits simply because he's not part of the top well-known 10% that browses Bitcointalk.
I count 22925 users who received at least 1 Merit. I think this invalidates your statement.

Quote
And because "merit sources" are obviously part of this 10%, it will only further benefit them into boosting their alts merit, making it harder and harder for members below the poverty line seniority line to make any money from sig campaigns, or any offers that take into account this account criteria.
Oh please, I don't have 429 alts.

Quote
It's really sad because I've had to deal with a lot of accounts, that are good, honest and serious people, but never really stand out because they don't intentionally deal with specific people to farm trust, or don't have some explosively booming business.
Trust has nothing to do with Merit. I've merited red trusted accounts. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the post, it means I think the post is worth reading, and better than 99% of the spammers.

Quote
What I'm trying to say is that it's easy to make constructive, well-written posts that contribute to the discussion, it's just that the majority of people doing it are incentivized. And I don't blame them, I wouldn't write a post like this unless I was paid for it, or I was emotionally invested into it.
Welcome back to the forum Smiley Keep posting like this, and you'll do just fine Smiley

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October 15, 2018, 10:30:20 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5317

...
Let's face it, an un-established user would need to post either the cure to cancer, or to fork a cure to solve all unconfirmed bitcoin txs -and even then, MAYBE- he'll get one or two merits simply because he's not part of the top well-known 10% that browses Bitcointalk.

And because "merit sources" are obviously part of this 10%, it will only further benefit them into boosting their alts merit, making it harder and harder for members below the poverty line seniority line to make any money from sig campaigns, or any offers that take into account this account criteria.
...

Can't agree - I'm the best example that you are wrong. During last 3 weeks I didn't invent cure for cancer and didn't solve any unconfirmed bitcoin txs either what I sincerely regret. Unfortunately I'm not a part of the top well-known 10% that browses Bitcointalk - probably I'm a part of the top unknown 10%...

However, even without such contribution and connections I managed to get some merits. And I'm certainly not an exception what you can check in one of my last posts MYTHBUSTERS: Only high ranked users are rewarded with merits
 
So don't look for Freemasonry here... It's hard to believe but merits are open for everybody...
I'm not saying that it's easy to get one but surely they are achievable to most of users...

EDIT: Oh! Look you've just got one!!!


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    .REQUEST INVITATION.
KingZee
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October 15, 2018, 11:03:33 AM
Last edit: October 15, 2018, 11:15:01 AM by KingZee
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5318


That's quite a statement after being inactive for more than a year. Is it really that hard to believe this forum has a terrible spam problem, which has to be limited before all signature campaigns are banned entirely?

I count 22925 users who received at least 1 Merit. I think this invalidates your statement.

Oh please, I don't have 429 alts.

Trust has nothing to do with Merit. I've merited red trusted accounts. That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the post, it means I think the post is worth reading, and better than 99% of the spammers.

Welcome back to the forum Smiley Keep posting like this, and you'll do just fine Smiley

I suck at splitting quotes so I'm concatenating. And thanks for the merit point. Smiley

I don't see how the Merit system will help reduce spammy posts. Newbie probably account for a good percentage of total posts in the Marketplace, or in the Discussion forums to boost their post count. The ONE thing that is extremely effective against spam already exists, Activity. You can only get 14 activity every 2 weeks. What's the point of spamming if you want to reach a goal of being eligible for sig campaigns, any dweeb can write one well-thought post a day. So Merit is just purely redundant in that regard.

Numbers! I love numbers! You count 22925 users who received at least 1 merit, nice. I count :

- 4% who received more or equal to 50 merit.
- 25% who received more or equal to 10 merit.
- 33% who received more or equal to 5 merit.
- 48% who received more or equal to 3 merit.
(all percentages are inclusive of ranks above them).

So basically, half the accounts that ever got merit, never got merited again. And the top 5% of people who got merited, are AT LEAST 50 times more likely than your average user to get merited. Smiley

Quick Edit : Also not to forget that these are 22k users who got merited at all. I wonder if we could get stats of Posts by Seniors Merited / Total Posts by Seniors, Full, Hero, Legendary. That oughtta be a fun sight.

I don't doubt you might not have alts, or that a bunch of people don't. But those btctalk accounts getting sold in the marketplace don't come out of thin air. There ARE people who abuse the merit system, just like they abuse other systems. The only problem I have with the merit system, is that it's BUILT to be abused by people who can. No one can FORCE their way into making a newbie account Senior overnight, but they sure as hell can spam the shit ouf ot it with merit.

This just goes to say that there is a lot wrong with this system from a neutral point of view, there is too much selectiveness for it to be unbiased. Which goes against the whole point of making it friendly for non-well known users.


Can't agree - I'm the best example that you are wrong. During last 3 weeks I didn't invent cure for cancer and didn't solve any unconfirmed bitcoin txs either what I sincerely regret. Unfortunately I'm not a part of the top well-known 10% that browses Bitcointalk - probably I'm a part of the top unknown 10%...

However, even without such contribution and connections I managed to get some merits. And I'm certainly not an exception what you can check in one of my last posts MYTHBUSTERS: Only high ranked users are rewarded with merits
 

To sum it up again, I'm not saying you'll never get merit, sure, merit is "infinite" for some users, so I don't doubt they'll feel generous every once in a while. But my point is that for 50 constructive posts you make, and from 50 average posts Mr. Big Shot makes, there's going to be a ridiculous bias against you. The problem is that Sig Campaign managers (most of them definitely falling in the top 10% category purely because they give out money "for free", and people love to merit them to slurp and kiss ass.) will have a skewed idea about merit, and that it's easily obtainable by anyone. It's not.

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October 15, 2018, 12:54:46 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5319

So good job theymos, for once again increasing the entry barrier for any user without enough money to waste on an contemporary art piece or a lamborguini to boost his stats.

Please let me know where I can purchase a Lambo for the price of a solitary merit or a Copper Membership, or stop with the dramatic exaggeration. These idiots need to get one merit, and if they can't achieve that or afford the ten dollars for a Copper Membership then they should find another 'job'. There is no entry barrier to posting here and that's the crux of the whole issue in the first place as anyone is free to post away without limitation (other than the spam-control wait times) and when they can get paid for that it just becomes a recipe for disaster. I actually don't think there's enough barriers to be able to start earning from posting here and you should have to have actually achieved something before you're allowed to earn from posting and begging or buying a merit certainly doesn't qualify someone to do so.

KingZee
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October 15, 2018, 01:15:13 PM
 #5320

So good job theymos, for once again increasing the entry barrier for any user without enough money to waste on an contemporary art piece or a lamborguini to boost his stats.

Please let me know where I can purchase a Lambo for the price of a solitary merit or a Copper Membership, or stop with the dramatic exaggeration. These idiots need to get one merit, and if they can't achieve that or afford the ten dollars for a Copper Membership then they should find another 'job'. There is no entry barrier to posting here and that's the crux of the whole issue in the first place as anyone is free to post away without limitation (other than the spam-control wait times) and when they can get paid for that it just becomes a recipe for disaster. I actually don't think there's enough barriers to be able to start earning from posting here and you should have to have actually achieved something before you're allowed to earn from posting and begging or buying a merit certainly doesn't qualify someone to do so.

I may have used an extreme example but I thought it was obvious as a cheesy joke. I never meant it at all the way you understood it, the art piece or lambo just meant an extreme example of the kind of posts that get traction, and subsequently merit on the forums.

And I thought the whole point of User ranks was exactly that, "you should have to have actually achieved something before you're allowed to earn from posting". The economy made itself, anything below Junior member is most of the time completely irrelevant in sig campaigns. Other more elitist campaigns only accept hero and legendary members and make the barrier to entry even higher, I don't mind all that.

The second example that was introduced is Trust, which is a ((((little)))) similar to the merit system in the fact that only DefaultTrust members can paint others in green, but is still a great indicator because it has CONTEXT once you click someone's trust. And the fact that there isn't just + and -, the 0 also MEANS something.

And finally, Merit. The centralized limited supply currency. I objectively can't see anyone agreeing to this system, unless they're renowned members who can use connections and biased feelings from other fellow sMerit owners to exchange points.

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