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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 157096 times)
nutildah
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May 25, 2019, 03:21:56 PM
 #5981

Update:

Time series plots:

Interesting... It would seem that sMerit expenditures have stabilized, or are even increasing. I know that theymos added a few merit sources recently... probably won't add any more for a while now.

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btcsmlcmnr
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May 25, 2019, 10:57:08 PM
Last edit: May 25, 2019, 11:09:09 PM by btcsmlcmnr
 #5982

Interesting... It would seem that sMerit expenditures have stabilized, or are even increasing. I know that theymos added a few merit sources recently... probably won't add any more for a while now.
Total merit sources increased from 123 to 130 with 7 8more newly added merit sources (7 + 1 due to Vod's leave nearly the same time), but total allocated merits to merit sources only increased 160 merits (from 20735 to 20895). It means that each of 7 new merit sources received around 160/78 ~ 2320 merit per 30 days, that is not significant amount, in my opinion.
Maybe, theymos wanted to test effectiveness of new merit sources, before giving them more allocated merits, or it is theymos' intention to keep merit inflation at lows.

New merit sources do receive too many merits:
Quote
There are 130 merit sources with a total merit generation of up to 20895 sMerit per 30 days
How many merit sources in total by now?
Code:
There are 123 merit sources with a total merit generation of up to 20735 sMerit per 30 days

bones261
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May 25, 2019, 11:05:39 PM
 #5983

Interesting... It would seem that sMerit expenditures have stabilized, or are even increasing. I know that theymos added a few merit sources recently... probably won't add any more for a while now.
Total merit sources increased from 123 to 130 with 7 more newly added merit sources, but total allocated merits to merit sources only increased 160 merits (from 20735 to 20895). It means that each of 7 new merit sources received around 160/7 ~ 23 merit per 30 days, that is not significant amount, in my opinion.
Maybe, theymos wanted to test effectiveness of new merit sources, before giving them more allocated merits, or it is theymos' intention to keep merit inflation at lows.

New merit sources do receive too many merits:
Quote
There are 130 merit sources with a total merit generation of up to 20895 sMerit per 30 days
How many merit sources in total by now?
Code:
There are 123 merit sources with a total merit generation of up to 20735 sMerit per 30 days

When theymos first recruited me, my original allocation was 50 merits. (I've heard that some start out with much less.) It does not surprise me that he wants to start out people low to test them out. Also, I believe Vod was relieved of his merit source duties at around the same time. Therefore there are 8 new merit sources. I'm not certain how high Vod's merit source allocation was. However, I suspect that his source allocation was at least 250.
btcsmlcmnr
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May 25, 2019, 11:10:48 PM
 #5984

When theymos first recruited me, my original allocation was 50 merits. (I've heard that some start out with much less.) It does not surprise me that he wants to start out people low to test them out. Also, I believe Vod was relieved of his merit source duties at around the same time. Therefore there are 8 new merit sources. I'm not certain how high Vod's merit source allocation was. However, I suspect that his source allocation was at least 250.
Thank you, bones261. I forgot about Vod, so it means 8 new merit sources, with 20 monthly allocated merits for each of them in average. I edited my above post.

El duderino_
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May 25, 2019, 11:30:19 PM
 #5985

@RivAngE just keep posting and enjoying your stay on the forum. Is not that nobody didn't appreciate your efforts, is just that people that saw it didn't or they did but didn't have smerits as of then to merit you. Don't compete with anyone just enjoy the forum as we watch bitcoin price and development achieve greater success. Keep contributing positively as you're doing even though you don't get instant rewards, luck might just be on your side someday and your account will get reviewed, rewarding all your quality contributions in the process.

/off-topic/ Are you also in the merit cycling club? This drives me crazy now, before it was so easy to spot LoyceV's comments with this avatar, now suchmoon and you.. it was so easy when people had their personal avatars.. Sad 


/off-topic-expansion/ On a HAT  Tongue

XhomerX10 designed my nice avatar HATs!!!!!  Thanks Bro
bones261
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May 25, 2019, 11:31:07 PM
Last edit: May 25, 2019, 11:58:51 PM by bones261
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5986

When theymos first recruited me, my original allocation was 50 merits. (I've heard that some start out with much less.) It does not surprise me that he wants to start out people low to test them out. Also, I believe Vod was relieved of his merit source duties at around the same time. Therefore there are 8 new merit sources. I'm not certain how high Vod's merit source allocation was. However, I suspect that his source allocation was at least 250.
Thank you, bones261. I forgot about Vod, so it means 8 new merit sources, with 20 monthly allocated merits for each of them in average. I edited my above post.

I believe you need to factor in Vod's merit source to determine how many merits each new merit source got. 250/8 =31.25 additional merits. Therefore, it appears each new merit source on average of a little over 50 source merits/month. It could be more since I suspect Vod's monthly merit source allocation could have been more than 250 per month.
Halab
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May 25, 2019, 11:32:40 PM
Last edit: May 25, 2019, 11:47:19 PM by Halab
 #5987

It means that each of 8 new merit sources received around 160/78 ~ 2320 merit per 30 days, that is not significant amount, in my opinion.

You must not make a quick conclusion. There haven't even been new sources of Merit for two weeks. Give them at least 30 days to spend all their smerits.
And your calculation is only correct if Vod spent all his smerits.

Edit : And there is a merit source who has taken a 60-days ban. After, there are the summer holidays coming up... The number of smerits will rise and fall without good reason Smiley.

btcsmlcmnr
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May 25, 2019, 11:37:00 PM
 #5988

It is not exact calculation, but it is raw figure that can help us to know new merit sources have not had too much allocated merits, at least early days or weeks accepted as sources by theymos. I gave such figures to point out potential reasons for nutildah's question.

DdmrDdmr
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May 26, 2019, 10:38:04 AM
Merited by redsn0w (2), serjent05 (1), El duderino_ (1), Matt9301 (1), tranthidung (1), fillippone (1)
 #5989

Thought I’d add the merit distribution per board and week. I’ve highlighted in yellow the main variances in value between the two most recent complete weeks, being the current week (21) marked in orange as it is partial in data so far (this week's Monday to Friday morning).

Most variances are not atypical in the big picture, but a few stand out:
-   Ann Altcoin reached a 2019 minimum of 73 merits.
-   Bitcoin Technical Support reached a 2019 high of 155 merits.
-   Trading Discussion reached a 2019 high of 772 (perhaps Reputation).
-   Pilipinas reached a 132 merit high for 2019.
-   Meta reached a 2019 high of 1047 merits.


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May 26, 2019, 11:33:37 AM
 #5990

Some potential reasons that I have known from my personal observations:
- Meta board: reputation, ban appeals (with found-proof of plagiarism), permanent ban uplifts, and related things of perma-bans - that is the hottest thing in the forum last two or three weeks.
- Pilipinas: translations - there are so many translations in the board, charity topics
- Trading discussion: surely come from the bull run that forces people become more actively and easier to send their sendable merits when they have good feelings with their balance.

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pushups44
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May 30, 2019, 08:30:30 PM
 #5991

Man, I tell you a secret: You can enjoy the forum without getting merits.
Talk for yourself, I'm getting withdrawal symptoms if I don't earn Merit for a day Tongue

@RivAngE: you should fix your quotes. Posting something without checking it doesn't look good, especially when you're complaining about Merit.

Whaaaat ? How did this happen to me? I always hit preview, then post, and then I check again... Huh Thanks for pointing it out.


Man, I tell you a secret: You can enjoy the forum without getting merits.
If you had a pretty active week and you got only 2 merit AND you complain, you have to blame yourself, not the merit system.
Otherwise, you should put more effort in what and how you write it, before calling the system vague.
Allow me a little bit of self promotion, that is my story, but actually it's full of other people out there with similar ones.

Don't take me wrong, I don't want to post in the forums BECAUSE I want to get merits or BECAUSE I want to get paid signature posts.
I want get paid for signatures BECAUSE I would be posting either way and I like being merited BECAUSE people like my posts... it's a matter of feeling the achievement!
By the way (a bit offtopic), it was like 2 weeks ago when I missed a weekly signature payment (worth about 40$ after the price hike) for just 1 less post!!! My point is, I'm involved in the forums without counting my postcount or even my merits. So your "secret" is something I already know! Cheesy

However, I can't help the feeling of discouragement when I don't see my merit count increase with the rate I was expecting it to after I've put so much effort... but I guess I might have too high expectations! Grin
Some of my posts took me about an hour because I was researching a matter and double-checking info from different sources before I post, so if after a day when I check the replies in this thread I see 0 merits, I'm thinking to myself "Didn't anyone appreciate this?"

I'm sure you're putting even more effort into your own posts, I believe you deserve your merits and even more than what you have, but I'd like to avoid comparisons to any other user, I don't want to fight with anyone about who is better or who deserves what! <3

Let's put a contrarian view here. This isn't a whine or begging for merits, just a frank discussion. The merit system is supposed to get rid of spam, and perhaps that's working, but it is taking a very long time for people to rank up - it's just not possible for me, and I don't spam. Sure, my main motivation is earning some extra money, but I often enjoy posting and sharing ideas, and those merits come very slow. Again, I don't spam - I think through all of my posts, and I am dedicated and honest - I don't come here to rip anyone off.

Going back to the contrarian view, I notice a lot of the legendary members have ego battles and often create needless flame threads - I'm not quite sure some of them are as worthy of their designation as people like myself who are honest and don't come here to put anyone down or impress others.

Granted, I am not a software developer creating killer code that will help bitcoin reach the next level - and to the credit of the forum the coders get a lot of merits - but there are the middle-class dudes (using an analogy) like myself who have written off ever ranking up.

So, my hope is that this system can perhaps be refined so that honest people like myself have a reasonable chance of ranking up some day. Again, this post is not a whine or meant as an offense to anyone.
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May 30, 2019, 09:21:57 PM
 #5992

and to the credit of the forum the coders get a lot of merits

Can you back this up? All I know was merit/statistics analysers were the ones getting most merit at the very beginning but now that is no longer the case. Sure they're still getting some fair share of merits but when you observe the merit stats (ALL-TIME & RECENT) merit recievers you'll notice we have a combination of users from all aspects of quality contributions to the forum on the list, we have the spam/scam hunters, merit/statistics analysers, anti-spam campaign managers, high and average quality forum contributors on the list. Merits are now been circulated round the forum than before.

Therefore it's safe to conclude, the merit system is improving and it'll keep on improving (give it time)

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pushups44
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May 30, 2019, 11:42:43 PM
 #5993

and to the credit of the forum the coders get a lot of merits

Can you back this up? All I know was merit/statistics analysers were the ones getting most merit at the very beginning but now that is no longer the case. Sure they're still getting some fair share of merits but when you observe the merit stats (ALL-TIME & RECENT) merit recievers you'll notice we have a combination of users from all aspects of quality contributions to the forum on the list, we have the spam/scam hunters, merit/statistics analysers, anti-spam campaign managers, high and average quality forum contributors on the list. Merits are now been circulated round the forum than before.

Therefore it's safe to conclude, the merit system is improving and it'll keep on improving (give it time)

Yes, this is one example and here is another. These were very easy to find (literally seconds from the home page). Again, these people deserve the merits - I actually merited satoshi and laszlo.

I am just here giving feedback regarding my experience. I understand that there is a need to combat spam, but it's really hard for most people to rank up purely from the merit system. I am also just becoming acquainted with the messy politics of this forum wherein legendary members are engaging in continuous flamewars with one another. It seems there is some sort of ego battle going on based on forum rank.
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May 31, 2019, 12:21:20 AM
Merited by Quickseller (1)
 #5994

I have not really gotten into any flamewars in this forum, though I have had testy exchanges in which at times I apologized or chilled out, but I think as part of creating a healthy ecosystem of discussion stuff like this needs to be cleaned up.

It seems parts of this forum are like the Jerry Springer Show - legendary members going at it with one another and throwing chairs, figuratively speaking. So, the merit system, I think, should also disincentivize unwarranted egotism and retaliation, which itself leads to spam (spam does not have to simply promote a product or service).

This is just an idea. Again, I am not calling out anyone in particular because that's not my intent and I don't have a beef with anyone here. Obviously, this forum does not implement demerits, which I don't necessarily support, but some refinements in the incentive structure can definitely be made somehow.

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May 31, 2019, 12:54:22 AM
 #5995

it's really hard for most people to rank up purely from the merit system.
You are wrong, fella. They hardly to rank up not purely due to merit system, but the reasons come from themselves, from their posting habits, from their post quality. Merits are always available and readily to leave a warmful kiss to good posts.

For any kind of 'wars', they should not your priorities in the forum, as well as the Trust sytem, it does not make any sense for me, because I don't need positive trust. Of course, it is good for me if I have green trust, but without green trust, I am fine. If I don't do any type of stupid things, violations, scams, I won't get negative trust. Even in the case I got negative trust, it won't make sense at all if my main purpose here is not to trade, to scam others, or to run my own projects or services. Trust system in reality won't make  sense for most of users, in my opinion. There is just a minority of forum users responses negatively with this system and start what they called 'wars' for their own interests. This post is a little bit distraction, because it should only disccuss about merit system.

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pushups44
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May 31, 2019, 02:06:56 AM
 #5996

it's really hard for most people to rank up purely from the merit system.
You are wrong, fella. They hardly to rank up not purely due to merit system, but the reasons come from themselves, from their posting habits, from their post quality. Merits are always available and readily to leave a warmful kiss to good posts.

For any kind of 'wars', they should not your priorities in the forum, as well as the Trust sytem, it does not make any sense for me, because I don't need positive trust. Of course, it is good for me if I have green trust, but without green trust, I am fine. If I don't do any type of stupid things, violations, scams, I won't get negative trust. Even in the case I got negative trust, it won't make sense at all if my main purpose here is not to trade, to scam others, or to run my own projects or services. Trust system in reality won't make  sense for most of users, in my opinion. There is just a minority of forum users responses negatively with this system and start what they called 'wars' for their own interests. This post is a little bit distraction, because it should only disccuss about merit system.

OK, I recall someone posted some statistics on those who have ranked up due to the merit system - if someone can post a link or some stats that would be helpful. I recall there weren't that many people being promoted due to the current system, but I am open to being proven wrong.

Also, I should mention, I am not shocked some Sr. Members have jumped at me over some constructive feedback I have given. I have been a member since early 2017, and am a bit of a crypto evangelist with people around me. I have not spammed or scammed. My feedback should thus be seen to have some value, and users should not be discouraging other members from giving such feedback.

It is the politics of this forum that I oppose - and the way people become invested in the politics - this gateway that, honestly, should not exist. This is not what cryptocurrencies are about. What I'd like is a fairer system, but I admit I don't know how it can be done. However, pointing out some shortcomings should not be taboo.
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May 31, 2019, 02:33:08 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2019, 12:33:38 AM by TECSHARE
 #5997

Also, I should mention, I am not shocked some Sr. Members have jumped at me over some constructive feedback I have given. I have been a member since early 2017, and am a bit of a crypto evangelist with people around me. I have not spammed or scammed. My feedback should thus be seen to have some value, and users should not be discouraging other members from giving such feedback.

It is the politics of this forum that I oppose - and the way people become invested in the politics - this gateway that, honestly, should not exist. This is not what cryptocurrencies are about. What I'd like is a fairer system, but I admit I don't know how it can be done. However, pointing out some shortcomings should not be taboo.

Get used to it comrade, this is the new East German Democratic Republik of Bitcoin Stalk. You either support the party or face the consequences. Dissenting opinions will not be tolerated.
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May 31, 2019, 02:35:38 AM
 #5998

Because it is your interest, you should spend your time to find what you need. I simply give you a hint (a topic), from which you can save your time and find what you ask for among those topics. You can narrow down by focusing on topics made by DdmrDDmr.
List of Bitcointalk stats.
OK, I recall someone posted some statistics on those who have ranked up due to the merit system - if someone can post a link or some stats that would be helpful. I recall there weren't that many people being promoted due to the current system, but I am open to being proven wrong.
I was even a Newbie at the start of merit system. All of my 325 merits are self-earned. You are likely get better posts, and it has been clearly reflected on your recent earned merits. You are one of grandfather because you were a Senior Member before January of 2018. For now, it might take one, two, three
or dozen of years for a Newbie to become a Senior Member.  Cheesy
Quote
I have been a member since early 2017
Your merit chart.
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May 31, 2019, 03:48:14 AM
 #5999

Because it is your interest, you should spend your time to find what you need. I simply give you a hint (a topic), from which you can save your time and find what you ask for among those topics. You can narrow down by focusing on topics made by DdmrDDmr.
List of Bitcointalk stats.
OK, I recall someone posted some statistics on those who have ranked up due to the merit system - if someone can post a link or some stats that would be helpful. I recall there weren't that many people being promoted due to the current system, but I am open to being proven wrong.
I was even a Newbie at the start of merit system. All of my 325 merits are self-earned. You are likely get better posts, and it has been clearly reflected on your recent earned merits. You are one of grandfather because you were a Senior Member before January of 2018. For now, it might take one, two, three
or dozen of years for a Newbie to become a Senior Member.  Cheesy
Quote
I have been a member since early 2017
Your merit chart.
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Thanks for your feedback. I originally misread your post. I agree that there is a method to all of this. Like I said, I hope this discussion can remain constructive, and your response certainly was.
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May 31, 2019, 04:28:34 AM
 #6000

I am also just becoming acquainted with the messy politics of this forum wherein legendary members are engaging in continuous flamewars with one another. It seems there is some sort of ego battle going on based on forum rank.

We have more than 30+ boards on the forum and the politics is mostly been felt on reputation, meta and sometimes scam accusation boards. The boards were actual information is been exchange in regards to questions been answered, learning & teaching isn't affected. Why they argue shouldn't disturb you. Focus on your reason for joining forum which I believe is to learn. You have to understand they're all humans and as humans, there is always a possibility of disagreement, debating and unnecessary argument when two or more individuals comes together.

The politics is kinda interesting if you pay close attention to it. At the end of the day they'll disagree to agree

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