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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 157810 times)
shushanika
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October 06, 2018, 07:12:30 PM
 #5281

So will the useable smerit get destroy every month if we don't use them.

smerits do not get destroyed (or decay) for regular members unless the member is a merit source member. 

Currently, there are only 120 merit source members.  See this link:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources

Merit source members have to spend their source smerits every 30 days in order to regenerate more source smerits.  If they do not spend their source smerits within 30days, then the source merits will not regenerate until 30 days after they spend their smerits.   

Good to know it does not get decayed but it seems it also does not get refilled, it would be great if from time to time it gets refilled so people who are not posting in areas where merit sources are active have a chance or earning it.
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S_Therapist
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October 06, 2018, 09:08:17 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5282

Good to know it does not get decayed but it seems it also does not get refilled, it would be great if from time to time it gets refilled so people who are not posting in areas where merit sources are active have a chance or earning it.
And the same story as previous continues....
If sMerits get refilled from time to time, what is the reason behind introducing it? Also, which areas are you talking about? Altcoin section? Merit Sources don't have enough time to find out 1 quality post among 100 posts. Sorry, but that's the reality.
Other than altcoin section, current number of Merit sources are quite enough.

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CRYPTO-WALLET  │  CRYPTO-GAMES  │  CRYPTO LOANS
SOCIAL TRADING  │  P2P EXCHANGE  │  OTC TRADING
MONEY TRANSFER SYSTEM  │  BINARY OPTIONS
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JayJuanGee
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October 06, 2018, 10:38:06 PM
 #5283

So will the useable smerit get destroy every month if we don't use them.

smerits do not get destroyed (or decay) for regular members unless the member is a merit source member. 

Currently, there are only 120 merit source members.  See this link:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources

Merit source members have to spend their source smerits every 30 days in order to regenerate more source smerits.  If they do not spend their source smerits within 30days, then the source merits will not regenerate until 30 days after they spend their smerits.   

Good to know it does not get decayed but it seems it also does not get refilled, it would be great if from time to time it gets refilled so people who are not posting in areas where merit sources are active have a chance or earning it.

As S_Therapist already responded to you, your point(s) are lost upon me (and apparently on S_Therapist, too?).

Think about what you are saying.  The merit system was introduced in order to attempt to take a significant dent out of the farming of BCT accounts in order to commercialize payment and to attempt for shit posters to earn a quasi-passive income from shit posting.  The introduction of the merit system, and how the merit system was designed, was meant to address that problematic shitposting and farming of account development that seemed to have gotten exponentially worse in the past year or so (or possibly one year prior to the implementation of the new system).

Merit member sources was an attempt to put several humans (or at least seeming human to the extent merit sources are to be considered human) in the process of reviewing posts and recognizing good (or at least better posts) as compared to some posts that are more obviously shit posts.  Actually sometimes it is obvious what is shit posts and what is not, but other times, there can be some difficulties and errors in determining the good, bad and the ugly, and still seemingly humans are better at that (as contrasted with an algorithm or some other possible methodology).

Your suggestion of giving each member a renewing bank of smerits might not be a bad idea, but it likely would have a tendency towards taking us back nearly to the same place that we started.

Surely this current merit system is far from perfect, but I currently believe that we have seen some members who have been able to earn a decent amount of merits and to "shine" in this new merit system.  Accordingly, I remain of the tentative conclusion (as several more senior members have also asserted) that if you make genuine posts on subjects that interest you, and you attempt to interact with members in threads that are genuinely interesting to you, you have a very decent chance of earning a sufficient amount of merits to rank up over time - even though it could take a bit longer than it would have taken for you under the prior (pre-merit) system.

Surely, as the current merit system remains in play (or some variation as we have seen it already tweaked), there are likely to be identified some issues.. For example, if theymos recognizes a bit of a ranking up problem, then he might be able to make some further tweaks to what we already have in order to make that ranking up better, if the new system seems to be preventing some seemingly deserving members from ranking up in a reasonable timeline given their contribution(s) to the forum.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
The Pharmacist
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October 06, 2018, 10:50:53 PM
 #5284

That, alongside the possibility that the recently added merit sources are likely modest in terms of allowance, and may have emptied their pockets during the first week or two after been added.
Yeah, I thought my sMerit supply was going to get topped up faster than it has--I forget how many merits I got when Theymos made me one of the new sources, but I used them all up pretty soon after he did it and I've yet to get any more.  I figured on the beginning of the month, but I was wrong apparently.  

Merit source members have to spend their source smerits every 30 days in order to regenerate more source smerits.  If they do not spend their source smerits within 30days, then the source merits will not regenerate until 30 days after they spend their smerits.  
So does that mean I should get replenished 30 days from the time I was added as a source or from when I spent my last merit-source sMerit or something like that?  

I'm curious but not concerned, and I'll figure it out eventually.  Anyway, I took a look around the Economics section today and didn't see any real newbies worth meriting.  The last few posts I've merited were from relatively senior members, but they were certainly deserving of it.

Edit:
Can't remember where I saw that.
Lol, I can't remember where I read what I read either.  I think it was Jet Cash who posted it in a thread or something.

MOBbrothers
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October 06, 2018, 10:59:54 PM
 #5285

Really like the new idea about merit , that would really lower the Multi account farming . Would be really nice to see who gave you merit aswell , what do you think guys ?

it is a nice idea to have that but honestly the Admin should be considerate. Reason is that Newbies are afraid of loosing a hard earn account TO BANNED. am not supporting the Multi account farming, am saying the rate at which account is been Banned should be considered please to avoid scarring members from creating post and thread.
Steamtyme
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October 06, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
 #5286

I remember it being 30 days from when you handed out the Smerit.

They don't come in a lump sum, so if you handed out 5 one day and 10 the next . 30 days from the first day you would be topped up with 5, and the following day you would receive another 10.

Can't remember where I saw that.

Edit: Stupid me deleted my post, reposting now

Can't remember where I saw that.
Lol, I can't remember where I read what I read either.  I think it was Jet Cash who posted it in a thread or something.

I think it was them or VOD, but it was early on probably first month or so.

JayJuanGee
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October 06, 2018, 11:42:38 PM
 #5287

That, alongside the possibility that the recently added merit sources are likely modest in terms of allowance, and may have emptied their pockets during the first week or two after been added.
Yeah, I thought my sMerit supply was going to get topped up faster than it has--I forget how many merits I got when Theymos made me one of the new sources, but I used them all up pretty soon after he did it and I've yet to get any more.  I figured on the beginning of the month, but I was wrong apparently.

Yes.  This can be a bit of an experiment when you are not sure the method in which your smerits are replenished.

 
Merit source members have to spend their source smerits every 30 days in order to regenerate more source smerits.  If they do not spend their source smerits within 30days, then the source merits will not regenerate until 30 days after they spend their smerits.  
So does that mean I should get replenished 30 days from the time I was added as a source or from when I spent my last merit-source sMerit or something like that?  


I believe that when the merit system was first introduced, there were some unexplained questions about how merit source smerits were going to be replenished, and the below-linked thread shows some discussion of the issue in which initially, the smerit algorithm was not functioning as intended, yet from what I could tell, theymos had largely been able to correct it, within about two weeks after the first 30 days had passed and merits were not being replenished.

Here is a link to the thread (seemingly the same thread that was subsequently referred to above by Steamtyme, too?):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3041961.0

Furthermore, in early July there was a bit of a backlog of smerits that were rewarded to smerit sources based on previous errors in the algorithm.

In essence, source smerits are currently supposed to replenish exactly 30 days from when you spend them, so any merit source should be able to systematically track his/her smerit replenishment (or errors) if s/he were to chose to do that.

So, for example in your case, it appears that you spent smerits accordingly (assumingely source smerits):

September 16  = 3 smerits

September 17  = 13 smerits

September 18  = 5 smerits

September 19  = 3 smerits

Those smerits should replenish to your source bank of smerits 30 days from the time you spent them with the below amounts on the below dates:


October 16  = 3 smerits

October 17  = 13 smerits

October 18  = 5 smerits

October 19  = 3 smerits


I'm curious but not concerned, and I'll figure it out eventually.  Anyway, I took a look around the Economics section today and didn't see any real newbies worth meriting.  The last few posts I've merited were from relatively senior members, but they were certainly deserving of it.

I'm sure that a lot of members recognize a similar phenomena in which higher ranking members are providing a lot of decent content, and surely I have no problem spending smerits on those kinds of posts/members, and giving a bit of leniency to doesn't seem to be a bad thing, either - and likely many of us have made mistakes of giving merits to shitposers who we later realize did not really deserve the merit (or that someone later points out that the post had been plagiarized... ).  There are only so many hours in the day to attempt to figure it out, too..

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
tranthidung
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October 07, 2018, 12:51:09 AM
Last edit: October 07, 2018, 12:15:20 PM by tranthidung
Merited by vapourminer (2)
 #5288

Rising from 3580 to 9684, then dropping from 9684 to 4510.
This is what I expected to see after watching your previous thread (last week). There are many demoted Junior members who ranked up back to this rank with only one new merit earned after the day newest ranking system launched weeks ago.

As I suggested in other threads, it might be better if you, or someone else, can collect specific statistics on the total demoted Junior Members who ranked up back and till now has had only one merit (enough figure for ranking up back).
Not sure, but I guess those cases and total merits received by them accounted for dominant proportions of those abnormal sudden rises of merit distribution last two week.

I really hope that you or someone else can do it someday.

I spent a couple of minutes to run simple analysis and grap box plots from those merit data. Here you go:

(1) Basic statistics:
Notes:
Dropped data means I dropped the data of the week from 17/9/2018 to 23/9/2018 out of the analysis because this one is a extremely outlier.

As you all can see that the means of those two datasets (4876, and 47111 for Full, and Dropped datasets, respectively) are much different than the Medians (4440 and 4431, for Full and Dropped datasets, respectively).
This is one of magical meanings of the Median statistic. In statistics, Medians are called as 'true' means of variables.

Besides the Medians, with the current datasets, statistics outside 3903 and 5043 (for Full dataset) or 4820 (for Dropped dataset) can be called as potential outliers because they are outside the Q3 + 1.5 IQR or Q1 - 1.5 IQR, with Q1 ~ 25th quartiel; Q3 ~ 75th quartile; IQR ~ Interquatile range.

For example:
You can look back at the table above, for the full merit dataset, we have:
- 25th quartile is
- 75th quartile is
so, the IQR = 5043 - 3903 = 1140
Q3 + 1.5 IQR = 5043 +1.5*1140 = 6753
Q1 - 1.5 IQR = 3903 - 1710 = 2193.
For the case, weeks which has total merit distributed over 6.7k or below 2.2k should be taken into deeply consideration to find out where are the reasons behinds those un-normal merit distributions for those weeks. And, please remember that those ones are only 'Potential Outliers'.
From the current dataset, you can easily see two important things:
(1) There are four potential weekly outliers [the first three weeks on the top, and the second from the bottom of the table given above], and all of them have values above 6.7k. I don't remember what actually happened in March, but I guess there were some significant changes on those weeks, maybe more new merit sources added. Highly appreciated information to explain these Potential Outliers.
(2) More interestingly, none of them has value below 2.2k. Thanks merit sources, at least they have been actively worked and kept distributing allocated merits.

Over time, when we have more weekly data, the whole picture will be clearer, and more reliable.
By now, the dataset which I used from @coinlocket$ contains only 30 data point (30 weeks), it's not large enough.

So what does it mean in real life in the BTT forum? It means when we see the total merits distributed per week above 4.8k, we can start thingking of some potential internal changes in the forum, such as significant new active merit sources, or new rules/ systems implemented recently. Interesting, right?  Grin
These potential outliers presented as red circle in the below box plots.

(2) Box plots and histograms:
Box plots presents both medians, interquartile ranges, potential outliers.
Historgrams present that whether data (merit distribution in this case) is normal distribution by following the bell curve, or un-normal distribution (by not following the bell curve).
2.1. Full data:
2.2. Dropped data:
One more time, as you all can see that both box plots, and histograms obviously present that these dataset on merit distributions are un-nonrmal distributions.


Notes:
- I will do a time-series analysis with given datasets from @LoyceV later.
- Highly appreciated anyone help with the sort of data in Excel format (I don't need excell file, if someone can get it, simply give me a snapshot of your sheet. It is enough for me, I will input those given figures manually into my sheet). Something like this one:
- I will dedicate my spare time to do it in my coming own topic. Stay tuned, please.

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cryptofarid10
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October 07, 2018, 05:45:50 AM
 #5289

There are many newbie. saying the big member, help me give me 1 merit. This happened to me. Now the newbie saying for the senior member. Have a look at the image attached below.

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DdmrDdmr
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October 07, 2018, 06:40:18 AM
 #5290

<...>
Bear in mind that the charted dataset is not complete, likely due to space and visual display comfort. Data really goes back to the 24th of January 2018 (starting with outliers there too for obvious reasons). It will be interesting to see what you come up with that may shed some new light over what has already been said in the past. Remember that not everyone here is stat savy, so the easier the concepts the better for assimilation by a broader audience.

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October 07, 2018, 07:36:22 AM
Last edit: October 07, 2018, 08:18:04 AM by tranthidung
 #5291

~snip~
Thanks. I have a feeling that most of those outliers contributed by trash merited threads, so it's good if I can get dataset on merit distribution over boards.
If I can have them [merit distribution over boards per week], I can plot more meaningful box plots.
I will also collect data posted by LoyceV to make time series analysis and find out whether there have been break trend at some points of time.

This one has been in my TO DO list.

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..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
LoyceV
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October 07, 2018, 03:07:45 PM
 #5292

If I can have them [merit distribution over boards per week], I can plot more meaningful box plots.
I can scrape the data if you want, but I'd need to know exactly what format you want to use. So please show me an example of (made up) input data that would work for you.

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October 08, 2018, 11:03:34 AM
 #5293

Thank you for your help. I will give you a snapshot of dataset format days later.
I can scrape the data if you want, but I'd need to know exactly what format you want to use. So please show me an example of (made up) input data that would work for you.
I can give you that sort of plot like this one:
Plots of Merit distribution over boards, days of week, ranks, etc.
Those plots will help us have clearer overview about the means/ medians (mostly medians due to un-normal distributions) of merit distributed over boards,  days of week, ranks, months of year, etc.

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..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
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October 08, 2018, 02:18:36 PM
 #5294

But everytime it is more difficult to go up. May be a newbie has done the same amount of post and merit as a Full Member, but the full member become his degree when it was much easier to get a member. I am here since one year now and still a newbie, because I need a merit, and when I started the merit was not necessary to become a Junior. It is not logical.
You should look at your post history at first.
I spend a couple of secs to look at it, which mainly contains bounty reports and one-line threads.
Which sort of qualitied your threads are? Are your threads merit-deserved?
I think that you can easily answer the question by yourself, then recognise your issues.
Let's get started by stop complaining, starting to learn and be more constructive; only writing and publishing threads when you really have something meaningful to contribute.

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..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
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October 09, 2018, 11:24:30 AM
 #5295

@cryptofarid10
Why are you posting irrelevant image here? Is it something to do with merit system? Please stop posting off-topic.

Exchase
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CRYPTO EXCHANGE  │  MARGIN TRADING  │  TOKEN LISTING
CRYPTO-WALLET  │  CRYPTO-GAMES  │  CRYPTO LOANS
SOCIAL TRADING  │  P2P EXCHANGE  │  OTC TRADING
MONEY TRANSFER SYSTEM  │  BINARY OPTIONS
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄     ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄     ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
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October 11, 2018, 02:29:24 AM
 #5296

This is so hard! I was following an old guide i guess. damn, But I guess it does mean it'll push people to post with quality... I'm just trying to get jr member to make my posts look better with images, proving to be a pain to get the 1 merit required, I thought it was 30 posts so trying to be as active as possible on my thread lol

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October 11, 2018, 03:53:38 AM
 #5297

This is so hard! I was following an old guide i guess. damn, But I guess it does mean it'll push people to post with quality... I'm just trying to get jr member to make my posts look better with images, proving to be a pain to get the 1 merit required, I thought it was 30 posts so trying to be as active as possible on my thread lol

I granted you a mercy merit. However, if you should create another altcoin in the future, you can purchase a Copper Membership. It's only a little over .002 BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2385104
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=credit;promote
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October 11, 2018, 11:03:49 AM
 #5298

This is so hard! I was following an old guide i guess. damn, But I guess it does mean it'll push people to post with quality... I'm just trying to get jr member to make my posts look better with images, proving to be a pain to get the 1 merit required, I thought it was 30 posts so trying to be as active as possible on my thread lol

I granted you a mercy merit. However, if you should create another altcoin in the future, you can purchase a Copper Membership. It's only a little over .002 BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2385104
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=credit;promote


Appreciated Bones thank you!!

Bittorium Development

Official Website (https://bittorium.org)
S_Therapist
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Activity: 308
Merit: 277



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October 12, 2018, 03:41:49 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5299

the majority of active contributors haven't received any merit. it like me.
Nice joke.
I have checked your post history and all without this one are bounty reports. You are helping lots of scammer to scam people.
It's really true that contributor like you haven't received any merits yet and will not get in future too.

Exchase
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CRYPTO EXCHANGE  │  MARGIN TRADING  │  TOKEN LISTING
CRYPTO-WALLET  │  CRYPTO-GAMES  │  CRYPTO LOANS
SOCIAL TRADING  │  P2P EXCHANGE  │  OTC TRADING
MONEY TRANSFER SYSTEM  │  BINARY OPTIONS
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DdmrDdmr
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Activity: 1484
Merit: 6643


There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain


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October 12, 2018, 08:59:46 AM
 #5300

<…>
Merit is related rather much to contributing to the forum and it’s community. Your posting history shows that you are focused solely on contributing to yourself, which is your prerogative, but goes in the opposite direction of merit. As you say, the vast majority of people are meritless, and they will stay that way for good unless they change their mind-set.

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