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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722514 times)
noobtrader
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July 31, 2015, 02:49:50 PM

yep, the rest is all the same crap. He's talking about the funny advantages of his View Keys. In Dash you can choose if your transaktion is hidden or visible on the blockchain with one single click.

How do you prove to an escrow agent you made a certain darksend transaction when there is a dispute about a certain trade?

ummm, maybe the escrow agent checks the balance on the target address?

simply darksend to new address then send as normal transaction to seller address.

"...I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism...",  satoshi@vistomail.com
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Lukas_Jackson
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July 31, 2015, 03:40:31 PM

yep, the rest is all the same crap. He's talking about the funny advantages of his View Keys. In Dash you can choose if your transaktion is hidden or visible on the blockchain with one single click.

How do you prove to an escrow agent you made a certain darksend transaction when there is a dispute about a certain trade?
You just give him a tx id. That's it. Same as it is in btc, but no one can see the rest of your balance.

It is easier to be an aggressive victim than to be a free man.
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July 31, 2015, 04:04:40 PM



Dude, I want a masternode spaceship!!! Smiley









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.
"I could either watch it
happen or be a part of it"

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eduffield (OP)
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July 31, 2015, 04:05:49 PM

Off topic!

If you want your mind blown, listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnO1hXvAV2c

Dash - Digital Cash | dash.org | dashfoundation.io | dashgo.io
TaoOfSaatoshi
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July 31, 2015, 06:09:22 PM

Fluffypony about dash / masternodes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks   8.33 minutes.

hear how his voice is changing when he talks about dash...
Can he do a math? What a biased dickhead  Cheesy

more talk, less math, monero
Please RT if you're on Twitter. Thanks, Tao.



https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544?s=09

bluebit25
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July 31, 2015, 06:19:25 PM

I acutally don't want to tweet that because it gives Monero extra attention. I don't want my followers to even know about Monero.  Wink









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Mars,           
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ElonCoin.org.
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.
"I could either watch it
happen or be a part of it"

▬▬▬▬▬
TaoOfSaatoshi
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July 31, 2015, 06:22:34 PM

I acutally don't want to tweet that because it gives Monero extra attention. I don't want my followers to even know about Monero.  Wink
I see your point. I enjoy blasting people that deserve it, though... Grin

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July 31, 2015, 06:30:16 PM

Fluffypony about dash / masternodes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks   8.33 minutes.

hear how his voice is changing when he talks about dash...
Can he do a math? What a biased dickhead  Cheesy

more talk, less math, monero
Please RT if you're on Twitter. Thanks, Tao.



https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/627173115840364544?s=09

What do you call this?

toknormal
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July 31, 2015, 06:35:23 PM


What do you call this?

The birth of a great coin which improves with time more than any other.

HinnomTX
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July 31, 2015, 06:39:23 PM

I acutally don't want to tweet that because it gives Monero extra attention. I don't want my followers to even know about Monero.  Wink
I see your point. I enjoy blasting people that deserve it, though... Grin
While I understand the desire to clarify the difference between pre-mine and 'fast mine', it's probably not a good idea to draw attention to this issue, as there really were mining issues with the coin in the first days. That was not Dash's finest hour. We have much better ammo to work with to counter such FUD. InstantX is starting to mature, and it's looking like a really big deal.

"One can only solve so much with cryptography. The rest of the solution will prove to be economic in nature." -Evan Duffield
Dash is Digital Cash.  https://www.dash.org
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July 31, 2015, 07:01:59 PM

InstantX is starting to mature, and it's looking like a really big deal.

Don't worry, I tweet about that plenty, too.

The Dash Twitter PR Initiative has a pretty well-rounded arsenal!

I'm not always going attack mode, but I have to call out liars, because we are not and have nothing to hide with our history.

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July 31, 2015, 07:31:05 PM

what's the minimum floor? $1?


The minimum floor was 5DASH before the 7% reduce. So now it's 4.65 DASH per block.
How many hash are needed?

THE INGENIOUS GENTLEMAN DON QUIXOTE OF LA MANCHA
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toknormal
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July 31, 2015, 07:46:49 PM


next

Better join the queue then.
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July 31, 2015, 07:56:29 PM

dash is not even really anonymous, it will replaced sooner or later by an cryptonode coin Undecided

Once the budget system is running we're going to have bounties available. How about $2000 to break an 8 round DS? It's never been done because it's impossible  Wink


We did sort of raise the potential for a $20k bounty:

Why isn't there a proposal to create a $100,000 break 8 rounds of Dash anonymity bounty?

I would vote on something like that. An ongoing fund that continues to grow monthly $500+ until claimed after starting at $5-10k. Not sure anyone would vote to fund $100k off the bat when ~8000 Dash/mo would wipe out other feature-worthy proposals.

Yah, that would be fun, but then those coins would just sit there for ever and ever.  Granted, it would be better than them never having come into existence, but I want to see as many coins distributed as possible.  I'd rather they didn't just sit around but create liquidity Smiley

IMO, it's a good thing that it is getting harder and harder to create a masternode.  I think this because someone has to start spending their coins.  I'm spending my income every month to pay for bills, etc... and I don't feel bad about it, 'cause my little bit circulates around (and I need it, LOL)  Eventually we need to make this wonderful coin functional for the people for it's intended use.  As a currency.  Right now, the best we have is a border less money transfer service, but so does everyone else.  So we have a long way to go and a short time to get there! (smokey and the bandit song, LOL)

Have the funds sit as liquidity providers on the network to assist in DS while the bounty waits to be claimed. It doesn't help getting coins out there, but it helps fix the slowness of one of Dash's key features.

It would have to be a temporary situation until a defined bounty level was reached. $100k was off the top of my head. $20k could be enough. Once the level is reached, the funds would have to be transferred to BTC and held in escrow.

A pen tester / hacker would not want to be paid in Dash if they were successful as there would be price volatility risks.

There is no getting away from it. This proposition is a double edge sword.

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July 31, 2015, 08:00:17 PM

Is somebody already mining on windows 10?Any speed improvements?
Is Dash Windows 10 ready(wallets etc). Huh
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July 31, 2015, 09:26:51 PM
Last edit: July 31, 2015, 10:19:11 PM by RenegadeMan

Fluffypony about dash / masternodes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks   8.33 minutes.

hear how his voice is changing when he talks about dash...

What a pompous arrogant asshole. His dumb jokes, infantile quips and general behaviour void him of any professionality. I haven't seen Fernando or Evan make fun of Moronero in front of other people. Is it because they're professionals or because no one in the audience would have a damn clue what Monero is? Probably both.

Anyway: Real devs do not descend to that kind of behaviour.
The mere fact that he claimed DASH had a "premine" despite knowing better prove him a liar und extremely dishonest and untrustworthy. Any one even scratching the surface of DASH also knows what he said about Masternodes is utter bullshit.

I love how he goes on circlejerking and climaxing all over "viewkeys" this and "viewkeys" that and how they protect your transaction history. Well guess what dickweed: Encrypt your wallet or just say you don't have any cryptocurrency, TADA problem solved. No need for a useless contraption called "viewkey" necessitating an invisible, retroactively breakable, unusably bloated and slow as fuck blockchain.

But that's as much as I could bear of hearing that arrogant guido talk so I didn't watch any further. I'm sure the rest is all crap, too.

Oh btw: "Fluffypony"... who wants to bet he watches My Little Pony and masturbates while wearing animal costumes? Just don't google the term "furry", people...


I've never heard anyone from Monero give a presentation so I thought I'd spend the time watching and listening to this to get a first hand feel.

It's starting to become clear now why so many of the Monero people spend so much time coming into this thread and trying to discredit Dash and the Dash community; with this sort of "leadership" they're so unsure of themselves and the horse they've backed; attack is indeed the only possible action.

My impression is that Riccardo Spagni (aka "fluffypony") is a very lightweight wannabe-pundit who clearly has serious holes in his understanding and knowledge of what's key to making a cryptocurrency an actual 'currency'. And furthermore his flippant style of presentation and offhanded sarcasm is terribly unprofessional and lacking in substance.

Some segments in the video really highlight how flawed is much of the approach and how little thought has gone into the really important stuff.

17:25 Regulatory compliance. Riccardo talks about how their 'view keys' creates this really nice regulatory compliance facility, but he goes on to explain how you, the Monero user, are in full control of what you can show/what you can hide and (in the classic style of a technoboffin) he doesn't seem to have any understanding that a 'compliance system' that involves one party being able to obscure information and only selectively present transactions is about genuine for confirming compliance as a register of cash transactions (i.e. such registers are so easily altered to suit and keep 'cash sales' to a minimum). No regulator is going to accept view keys as even remotely plausible and at:

17:50 he even says if the government comes knocking asking for your record you can "give them one of your view keys and keep the other ones under your mattress". This (plus the hidden blockchain) is just more silliness that's indicative of how little understanding there is of what a currency is and what's going to work in the real world. (It's what often happens when people who are primarily technoboffins are let loose onto ideas within the field of monetary economics)

22:00 Monero does other stuff too: Here's an example of a contradictory statement. Riccardo talks about it being "slightly inflationary" but then explaining how the block reward stays the same after 2022 he then states it's "technically slightly disinflationary"

22:27 And here's an example of another contradictory statement. "We have no block limit...(pause)... err we have a dynamic block limit" and he then goes on to explain what he means about how the block size can be adjusted by the protocol looking at previous block sizes and it potentially increasing but to no more than 20%. It's confusing because in effect there's still a block limit and none of it addresses the massive bloat Monero's blockchain is subject to.

24:13 Then this confusion around the mine-ability of Monero "we have an accessible PoW algorithm....lowers the performance gap between CPUs, GPUs, FGPAs and ASICs"....(24:42) "in ten years time when there are ASICs, CPU miners will still be okay. They won't make a profit but they will still be able to mine...."

Mmm....suggesting what's going to be happening in the mining space in ten years time I believe is fraught with forecast-fail risk. I just wouldn't bother even mentioning such stuff. If there's no profit possible by mining from a CPU (even though it's theoretically possible) then it's a pointless point (if it's possible to make a "pointless point"; I think he's done it though).

27:32 How Monero's costs are covered - This is the CORKER! This is why Dash's approach with the new funding model is, not only so superior, it's fundamental to ensure survivability. They simply don't have a proper funding model and you can see how disastrous this is going to become. And, as per the rest of the presentation, he makes flippant statements and puts out classic throw-away lines that indicate this guy's underlying ethos

"...the way we cover our costs (because we aren't driving around in Ferraris, that happens next year...)"

"...send flufflypony to Europe to go talk at conferences...."

(and see 31:51 below where he actually outlines in detail how they're NOT able to work on stuff because of the funding problem)

29:05 Useful and Usable - "And what we're trying to do is make Monero useful and usable because at some stage we would like it to be grandparent friendly..."

You're a typical propeller head Riccardo. "Grandparent friendly" has negative connotations towards anyone that's a grandparent as it assumes older people are stupid and it needs to be dumbed down for them. There are far better ways of describing universal usability without jumping to age discriminatory clichés.

30:46 Online Ease of access - "The one thing that Monero struggles a bit with is that at the moment it is command line only. We do have a bunch of 3rd party GUIs but obviously usability is a bit of an issue for people because apparently command line tools are really hard for people to use...who knew? So ha ha ha..."
and
".....mymonero.com web wallet sort of handles the accessibility gap at least in the short term....."

Yep. Nothing more needs to be said (except if you all spent more time actually DEVing instead of coming here and to dozens of other threads FUDing you might actually have a proper wallet by now).

31:51 "...and we are of course working on a GUI...but we're working on it slowly because, well, I mean, you know, we don't get paid ha ha so we can only work as and when we can....we started with wireframes, then we did a bunch of designs for components and that's kind of what we ended up with. The code's up and it's working it's just not wired up. Some screens still need to be done but it is kind of pretty and it will be nice and useful and usable...."

The whole time he's speaking during this bit he has this flippant edge to his voice that's "yeah yeah...so the newbs and idiots need a GUI....okay...alright...we're working on it but it's really not our priority...."

You couldn't get a greater level of misunderstanding about why their lack of a Monero specifically developed GUI is the show stopper of show stoppers!

I stopped listening when the Q&A started. Heard enough and won't need to listen to anything from Riccardo again as he's clearly more spin than substance. And the manner in which he talks about other crypto projects and (in regards to this thread) Dash and the masternode network is so full of mis-information and lies it's truly appalling.

I don't think we have too much to contend with in regards to Monero and it's clearly reflected in their marketcap by comparison to Dash's.

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Otoh
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July 31, 2015, 10:08:54 PM


Why does the network have so much new capacity with this release ?


IX capacity has always been better than PoW capacity, as you're not having to wait for the whole lumbering Proof-of-Waste farce, you're getting consensus from a much smaller group of nodes.

Without PoW consensus I feel like this is becoming dangerous territory: If the subset of elected IX-nodes is small enough, wouldn't someone like Otoh with over 600 MNs have a good chance that a TX is entirely in his domain? What would stop an attacker from reversing an IX-tx before it hits the miners, when all consensus nodes are controlled by one person?

You have it exactly backwards, MN subsetting is tens of thousands of times more secure than PoW.

If there are 600 compromised nodes out of 3000, and you need 10 of those 3000 to beat the system, the chances that all of the 10 needed nodes for any one IX will be among the 600 compromised nodes are miniscule.

Roughly, (600/3000)^10 = 0.000000102

Evil-Otoh will be waiting a long time to bugger up a single IX.

There's a reason hierarchical structures arise in nature and society - efficiency. Societal hierarchies are easy targets for compromise because they are essentially static, they provide fixed targets. Pooled mining is a good example of an this, it's a vulnerability, not an asset.

Overlay networks like Masternodes are a fluid hierarchy and vastly more resilient to attack.

I realize that there has been a bit of concern from some re the number of MN under one person's control so by happy synchronicity I am copying part of an email that I sent today to one of my the MN management services:

I'm in advanced discussions to sell a bunch of my DASH, this should be good as it gives better distribution of coins, one person is thinking about it over the weekend while making preparations for it and if he decides to go ahead then that would be early next week, even Monday, if so I will need to take down approx 102 masternodes to fund this, he will be putting them back up straight away. I'll announce this beforehand on the BCT forum so as not to surprise people especially when they're watching the total get so near 3,000 MN atm.

I've also just being put into contact with another buyer who apparently is after approx 25,000 DASH so if that goes through it will mean sacrificing another 25 or so minions more.

I'll try to give you as much notice as possible, it does seem that the large one is quite likely to go ahead as he says he's 99% OK with it and just needs to make sure everything is set up correctly and that he hasn't overlooked any details, he's always been a very reliable person to do biz with in the past and has been considering this move for a good while now.

It's certainly encouraging to see such large amounts of new money going into backing the project and I hope that they both do very well.




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July 31, 2015, 10:16:01 PM


Why does the network have so much new capacity with this release ?


IX capacity has always been better than PoW capacity, as you're not having to wait for the whole lumbering Proof-of-Waste farce, you're getting consensus from a much smaller group of nodes.

Without PoW consensus I feel like this is becoming dangerous territory: If the subset of elected IX-nodes is small enough, wouldn't someone like Otoh with over 600 MNs have a good chance that a TX is entirely in his domain? What would stop an attacker from reversing an IX-tx before it hits the miners, when all consensus nodes are controlled by one person?

You have it exactly backwards, MN subsetting is tens of thousands of times more secure than PoW.

If there are 600 compromised nodes out of 3000, and you need 10 of those 3000 to beat the system, the chances that all of the 10 needed nodes for any one IX will be among the 600 compromised nodes are miniscule.

Roughly, (600/3000)^10 = 0.000000102

Evil-Otoh will be waiting a long time to bugger up a single IX.

There's a reason hierarchical structures arise in nature and society - efficiency. Societal hierarchies are easy targets for compromise because they are essentially static, they provide fixed targets. Pooled mining is a good example of an this, it's a vulnerability, not an asset.

Overlay networks like Masternodes are a fluid hierarchy and vastly more resilient to attack.

I realize that there has been a bit of concern from some re the number of MN under one person's control so by happy synchronicity I am copying part of an email that I sent today to one of my the management MN services:

I'm in advanced discussions to sell a bunch of my DASH, this should be good as it gives better distribution of coins, one person is thinking about it over the weekend while making preparations for it and if he decides to go ahead then that would be early next week, even Monday, if so I will need to take down approx 102 masternodes to fund this, he will be putting them back up straight away. I'll announce this beforehand on the BCT forum so as not to shock people especially when they're watching the total get near 3,000 MN atm.

I've also just being put into contact with another buyer who apparently is after approx 25,000 DASH so if that goes through it will mean sacrificing another 25 or so minions more.

I'll try to give you as much notice as possible, it does seem that the large one is quite likely to go ahead as he says he's 99% OK with it and just needs to make sure everything is set up correctly and that he hasn't overlooked any details, he's always been a very reliable person to do biz with in the past and has been considering this move for a good while now.

It's certainly encouraging to see such large amounts of new money going into backing the project and I hope that they both do very well.






Otoh, thank you for being so transparent!
Even so, you never needed to show your assets in the first place.

But that is just showing how mature our community is!

I am very proud to be the owner of a MN in this wonderful DASH journey!

Long Live DASH!


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July 31, 2015, 10:28:42 PM

I realize that there has been a bit of concern from some re the number of MN under one person's control so by happy synchronicity I am copying part of an email that I sent today to one of my the MN management services:

I'm in advanced discussions to sell a bunch of my DASH, this should be good as it gives better distribution of coins, one person is thinking about it over the weekend while making preparations for it and if he decides to go ahead then that would be early next week, even Monday, if so I will need to take down approx 102 masternodes to fund this, he will be putting them back up straight away. I'll announce this beforehand on the BCT forum so as not to surprise people especially when they're watching the total get so near 3,000 MN atm.

I've also just being put into contact with another buyer who apparently is after approx 25,000 DASH so if that goes through it will mean sacrificing another 25 or so minions more.

I'll try to give you as much notice as possible, it does seem that the large one is quite likely to go ahead as he says he's 99% OK with it and just needs to make sure everything is set up correctly and that he hasn't overlooked any details, he's always been a very reliable person to do biz with in the past and has been considering this move for a good while now.

It's certainly encouraging to see such large amounts of new money going into backing the project and I hope that they both do very well.




Very nice Otoh! It's great that we will see even more decentralization with this move, as well as new motivated investors.

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July 31, 2015, 10:52:37 PM


Why does the network have so much new capacity with this release ?


IX capacity has always been better than PoW capacity, as you're not having to wait for the whole lumbering Proof-of-Waste farce, you're getting consensus from a much smaller group of nodes.

Without PoW consensus I feel like this is becoming dangerous territory: If the subset of elected IX-nodes is small enough, wouldn't someone like Otoh with over 600 MNs have a good chance that a TX is entirely in his domain? What would stop an attacker from reversing an IX-tx before it hits the miners, when all consensus nodes are controlled by one person?

You have it exactly backwards, MN subsetting is tens of thousands of times more secure than PoW.

There's a reason hierarchical structures arise in nature and society - efficiency. Societal hierarchies are easy targets for compromise because they are essentially static, they provide fixed targets. Pooled mining is a good example of an this, it's a vulnerability, not an asset.

Overlay networks like Masternodes are a fluid hierarchy and vastly more resilient to attack.

I'm in advanced discussions to sell a bunch of my DASH

Nothing is "vastly more resilient to attack" than Bitcoin's Proof-of-Work based architecture, especially not Dash's array of trusted third parties.

This belief in the miracles of Dash is magical thinking of the exact kind that con men use to sell snake oil to rubes.

Now we see Dash being positioned as yet another high capacity real-time centralized retail payment rail. At least that is more honest than the previous Darkcoin 'privacy theater' nonsense.  But there is zero actual computer science behind the marketing claims about 'better than Bitcoin' security.  All existing authoritative research leads to the opposite conclusion.

Good luck selling your bags of pre-mined Digital Trash.


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