[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[GhostPlayer]

 

Why? Because they are greedy fucks and because they can.

Anyone can see the rampant bot activity on Mintpal just by looking at the order books for a few minutes. Mintpal thus have to admit to having a 'closed beta' trading API - good luck getting access to it without paying them a small fortune.

Basic reason suggests that the biggest users of this 'closed beta' trading API are Mintpal themselves. Since they have mountains of coins that idiots leave on their exchange, it becomes trivially easy for them to bot coin prices up, down or sideways as it suits them, and to long and short at will with other peoples money.

Mostly this works, because they are mostly competent and very experienced at this. They make fortunes and we are all none the wiser.

In this case they fucked up somehow, and as they probably either had the vericoin dev by the balls because he'd paid a large sum to get listed on Mintpal in the first place, or he was in on their scheme from the beginning - think for a moment who's providing the funding for all these shitcoin launches that exchanges benefit from the frenzied trading on! - they jointly decided to do the unthinkable and FUCK WITH THE BLOCKCHAIN for their own benefit.

So, not so much 'Too Big To Fail,' more like, 'We Don't Give A Shit, So Fuck You.' (WDGAS,SFU)

Yup... I dont like this event at all. First time in the entire crypto history to reverse a blockchain to previous state.
 That goes totally against the trustless and irreversible model.

Smells like Gox 2.0 spirit.

 I am 100% off Mintpal for now, BitFinex is my new home.

[vertoe]

PoS innovation with Masternodes

You shouldn't use "PoS" to refer to Proof of Service as that abbreviation usually means Proof of Stake. Using "PoS" is misleading and provokes misunderstanding of DRKs features. Proof of Stake is a block generation mechanism which Proof of Service isn't. They are totally different things and shouldn't be mixed up.

I suggest using "PoSVC" or just not abbreviate it at all.

I suggest PRFoSRVC as shortest possible and easy to remember abbreviation.

[thelonecrouton]

The MN Partnership has been CLOSED!!

I Welcome:

OAXACA
and
TESQUENURE


as my MN Partners


We now have the required funds for a MN and thanx to GhostPlayer, will soon have another MN to add to the list.

WOOHOO!!!

Good luck guys, me and Lebubar are also jointly masternode-ing.

Maybe the current difficulty in doing it trustlessly is a good thing in some ways - by working together, trust is established, and communities grow.

I'm thinking of doing another joint MN, this one with 10 joint owners, 100DRK each, to let smaller holders benefit too. If anyone is interested PM me, I'll start another thread on darkcointalk for it and we can coordinate there... because checking poolhash once or twice a day and seeing your MN get paid feels pretty sweet, more people should have the opportunity!

[JGCMiner]

 Morning folk. Just woke up and got creeped by the MP news.
 What really bothers me there, is that it was not user account, but MP themselves... so why on earth only Vericoin were stolen?
 If it was a service exploit, they would have gone straight to BTC, LTC and heck, even DRK.... why Vericoin?  

Mintpal are bent. Always have been, they're just smart and subtle about it. They run bot armies price-fixing and shorting the coins that every other fool in cryptoland leaves lying there like it's a fucking bank. This time they screwed up somehow, their gamble didn't pay off, and the vericoin devs are in cahoots with them.

Seriously, forking back a blockchain to cover an exchange's stupidity is a horrible precedent. An honest exchange would take the loss and learn from it. Blockchains are not supposed to be fucking time machines to magically repair the screwups of big players.

Someone please explain to me how what was done here is different than TBTF.

What's TBTF?

Too Big To Fail, AKA USA banks circa 2008.

Edit: AKA, the most centralized you can get.

Yeah. This whole VRC - Mintpal thing is really nasty business and sets a dangerous precedent.

The blockchain is supposed to be the truth -- the one thing you can trust -- the one thing that prevents people from being evil for their own good at the expense of others. If you rewind the blockchain to change history (or to do whatever else you please) then what is the point of crypto. Go to a bank and play their games.

Whether the coin would survive this or not is irrelevant.  Mintpal should have set about paying people back. That was the only choice. Rather we now have those devs agreeing to commit what is arguably the worse sin in the world of cryptocurrency -- purposely fudging their own blockchain.  Trustless... yeah right.

[vertoe]

Something is wrong today, already earned 29 DRK today with masternodes!
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/1425/

I'm thinking of doing another joint MN, this one with 10 joint owners, 100DRK each, to let smaller holders benefit too. If anyone is interested PM me, I'll start another thread on bitcointalk for it and we can coordinate there... because checking poolhash once or twice a day and seeing your MN get paid feels pretty sweet, more people should have the opportunity!

Why don't you use darkcointalk?

[thelonecrouton]

You have to keep in mind that this reversed hard fork was the only way to rescue VRC at all.
If the hard fork wouln't have done 1 person would have had over 30% of all coins existing and the coin would be dead because there the hole trust would have gone. VRC is pos.

if you think that way, they reconstruted trust in the coin itself.

Either way. It's unbelivable that something like that is even possible on a modern exchange.

MP fucked up hard.

Those theoretical flaws with POS coins are not so theoretical anymore, eh?

[thelonecrouton]

Something is wrong today, already earned 29 DRK today with masternodes!
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/1425/

I'm thinking of doing another joint MN, this one with 10 joint owners, 100DRK each, to let smaller holders benefit too. If anyone is interested PM me, I'll start another thread on bitcointalk for it and we can coordinate there... because checking poolhash once or twice a day and seeing your MN get paid feels pretty sweet, more people should have the opportunity!

Why don't you use darkcointalk?

LOL, thanks... will edit... 

[luigi1111]

 Morning folk. Just woke up and got creeped by the MP news.
 What really bothers me there, is that it was not user account, but MP themselves... so why on earth only Vericoin were stolen?
 If it was a service exploit, they would have gone straight to BTC, LTC and heck, even DRK.... why Vericoin?  

Mintpal are bent. Always have been, they're just smart and subtle about it. They run bot armies price-fixing and shorting the coins that every other fool in cryptoland leaves lying there like it's a fucking bank. This time they screwed up somehow, their gamble didn't pay off, and the vericoin devs are in cahoots with them.

Seriously, forking back a blockchain to cover an exchange's stupidity is a horrible precedent. An honest exchange would take the loss and learn from it. Blockchains are not supposed to be fucking time machines to magically repair the screwups of big players.

Someone please explain to me how what was done here is different than TBTF.

What's TBTF?

Too Big To Fail, AKA USA banks circa 2008.

Edit: AKA, the most centralized you can get.

Ah thanks. I'm not sure it's quite the same though.

The exchange model is very similar to the casino model - the house takes its cut, so with plenty of customers, the house makes good money, they don't need to cheat.

They always cheat.

Why? Because they are greedy fucks and because they can.

Anyone can see the rampant bot activity on Mintpal just by looking at the order books for a few minutes. Mintpal thus have to admit to having a 'closed beta' trading API - good luck getting access to it without paying them a small fortune.

Basic reason suggests that the biggest users of this 'closed beta' trading API are Mintpal themselves. Since they have mountains of coins that idiots leave on their exchange, it becomes trivially easy for them to bot coin prices up, down or sideways as it suits them, and to long and short at will with other peoples money.

Mostly this works, because they are mostly competent and very experienced at this. They make fortunes and we are all none the wiser.

In this case they fucked up somehow, and as they probably either had the vericoin dev by the balls because he'd paid a large sum to get listed on Mintpal in the first place, or he was in on their scheme from the beginning - think for a moment who's providing the funding for all these shitcoin launches that exchanges benefit from the frenzied trading on! - they jointly decided to do the unthinkable and FUCK WITH THE BLOCKCHAIN for their own benefit.

So, not so much 'Too Big To Fail,' more like, 'We Don't Give A Shit, So Fuck You.' (WDGAS,SFU)

Understand, but I'm not seeing how it's different (I'm not comparing MP to a bank, rather the process of what happened). It's like a bailout: someone, somewhere, screwed up, but the dev's stepped in and made the problem disappear. My thought is it must have been a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing (with the "if you don't" being even worse than this). I mean, the coin has basically been given over to a central authority now. Will they roll back the chain again in the future if something else happens? How big of a screw-up does it need to be?

[solo20]

so what the hell happen on mintpal should I get my coins out

[JGCMiner]

 Morning folk. Just woke up and got creeped by the MP news.
 What really bothers me there, is that it was not user account, but MP themselves... so why on earth only Vericoin were stolen?
 If it was a service exploit, they would have gone straight to BTC, LTC and heck, even DRK.... why Vericoin?  

Mintpal are bent. Always have been, they're just smart and subtle about it. They run bot armies price-fixing and shorting the coins that every other fool in cryptoland leaves lying there like it's a fucking bank. This time they screwed up somehow, their gamble didn't pay off, and the vericoin devs are in cahoots with them.

Seriously, forking back a blockchain to cover an exchange's stupidity is a horrible precedent. An honest exchange would take the loss and learn from it. Blockchains are not supposed to be fucking time machines to magically repair the screwups of big players.

Someone please explain to me how what was done here is different than TBTF.

What's TBTF?

Too Big To Fail, AKA USA banks circa 2008.

Edit: AKA, the most centralized you can get.

Ah thanks. I'm not sure it's quite the same though.

The exchange model is very similar to the casino model - the house takes its cut, so with plenty of customers, the house makes good money, they don't need to cheat.

They always cheat.

Why? Because they are greedy fucks and because they can.

Anyone can see the rampant bot activity on Mintpal just by looking at the order books for a few minutes. Mintpal thus have to admit to having a 'closed beta' trading API - good luck getting access to it without paying them a small fortune.

Basic reason suggests that the biggest users of this 'closed beta' trading API are Mintpal themselves. Since they have mountains of coins that idiots leave on their exchange, it becomes trivially easy for them to bot coin prices up, down or sideways as it suits them, and to long and short at will with other peoples money.

Mostly this works, because they are mostly competent and very experienced at this. They make fortunes and we are all none the wiser.

In this case they fucked up somehow, and as they probably either had the vericoin dev by the balls because he'd paid a large sum to get listed on Mintpal in the first place, or he was in on their scheme from the beginning - think for a moment who's providing the funding for all these shitcoin launches that exchanges benefit from the frenzied trading on! - they jointly decided to do the unthinkable and FUCK WITH THE BLOCKCHAIN for their own benefit.

So, not so much 'Too Big To Fail,' more like, 'We Don't Give A Shit, So Fuck You.' (WDGAS,SFU)

Understand, but I'm not seeing how it's different (I'm not comparing MP to a bank, rather the process of what happened). It's like a bailout: someone, somewhere, screwed up, but the dev's stepped in and made the problem disappear. My thought is it must have been a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing (with the "if you don't" being even worse than this). I mean, the coin has basically been given over to a central authority now. Will they roll back the chain again in the future if something else happens? How big of a screw-up does it need to be?

Or how much money needs to be paid under the table?  Or how many benefits do to the devs need to see?  Or, Or, Or.... any dev that considers what they are doing a solution is not someone who I would trust.

Makes you really appreciate when Evan rolled back the 6/20 fork because the network was slow to respond to orphans when everybody was screaming "don't" on IRC. Doing what is right by the coin regardless of price (those second set of fork issues could have killed DRK) is really commendable.

[georgem]

so what the hell happen on mintpal should I get my coins out

https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17

Their Vericoin wallets were attacked.
Other coins to follow?
Probably, be careful... such signs have to be taken seriously.

[illodin]

so what the hell happen on mintpal should I get my coins out

https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17

Their Vericoin wallets were attacked.
Other coins to follow?
Probably, be careful... such signs have to be taken seriously.

The first info they give out when a hack has happened is rarely the last.

If there are more (other) coins missing, it's possible they haven't noticed it yet, or have noticed, but are hoping that no one else will. The 8 million VRC's was just too big of an amount to go unnoticed.

[solo20]

going to get my darkcoins out just to be safe  any other good exchanges you guys recommend

[luigi1111]

 Morning folk. Just woke up and got creeped by the MP news.
 What really bothers me there, is that it was not user account, but MP themselves... so why on earth only Vericoin were stolen?
 If it was a service exploit, they would have gone straight to BTC, LTC and heck, even DRK.... why Vericoin?  

Mintpal are bent. Always have been, they're just smart and subtle about it. They run bot armies price-fixing and shorting the coins that every other fool in cryptoland leaves lying there like it's a fucking bank. This time they screwed up somehow, their gamble didn't pay off, and the vericoin devs are in cahoots with them.

Seriously, forking back a blockchain to cover an exchange's stupidity is a horrible precedent. An honest exchange would take the loss and learn from it. Blockchains are not supposed to be fucking time machines to magically repair the screwups of big players.

Someone please explain to me how what was done here is different than TBTF.

What's TBTF?

Too Big To Fail, AKA USA banks circa 2008.

Edit: AKA, the most centralized you can get.

Ah thanks. I'm not sure it's quite the same though.

The exchange model is very similar to the casino model - the house takes its cut, so with plenty of customers, the house makes good money, they don't need to cheat.

They always cheat.

Why? Because they are greedy fucks and because they can.

Anyone can see the rampant bot activity on Mintpal just by looking at the order books for a few minutes. Mintpal thus have to admit to having a 'closed beta' trading API - good luck getting access to it without paying them a small fortune.

Basic reason suggests that the biggest users of this 'closed beta' trading API are Mintpal themselves. Since they have mountains of coins that idiots leave on their exchange, it becomes trivially easy for them to bot coin prices up, down or sideways as it suits them, and to long and short at will with other peoples money.

Mostly this works, because they are mostly competent and very experienced at this. They make fortunes and we are all none the wiser.

In this case they fucked up somehow, and as they probably either had the vericoin dev by the balls because he'd paid a large sum to get listed on Mintpal in the first place, or he was in on their scheme from the beginning - think for a moment who's providing the funding for all these shitcoin launches that exchanges benefit from the frenzied trading on! - they jointly decided to do the unthinkable and FUCK WITH THE BLOCKCHAIN for their own benefit.

So, not so much 'Too Big To Fail,' more like, 'We Don't Give A Shit, So Fuck You.' (WDGAS,SFU)

Understand, but I'm not seeing how it's different (I'm not comparing MP to a bank, rather the process of what happened). It's like a bailout: someone, somewhere, screwed up, but the dev's stepped in and made the problem disappear. My thought is it must have been a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing (with the "if you don't" being even worse than this). I mean, the coin has basically been given over to a central authority now. Will they roll back the chain again in the future if something else happens? How big of a screw-up does it need to be?

Or how much money needs to be paid under the table?  Or how many benefits do to the devs need to see?  Or, Or, Or.... any dev that considers what they are doing a solution is not someone who I would trust.

Makes you really appreciate when Evan rolled back the 6/20 fork because the network was slow to respond to orphans when everybody was screaming "don't" on IRC. Doing what is right by the coin regardless of price (those second set of fork issues could have killed DRK) is really commendable.

Agree for sure; it really makes the coin untrustworthy in my eyes. My only thought is that the alternative was worse.

[vertoe]

so what the hell happen on mintpal should I get my coins out

https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17

Their Vericoin wallets were attacked.
Other coins to follow?
Probably, be careful... such signs have to be taken seriously.

The first info they give out when a hack has happened is rarely the last.

If there are more (other) coins missing, it's possible they haven't noticed it yet, or have noticed, but are hoping that no one else will. The 8 million VRC's was just too big of an amount to go unnoticed.

BTC and LTC also attacked - without success due to cold storage.
https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=18

[luigi1111]

going to get my darkcoins out just to be safe  any other good exchanges you guys recommend

For trading more than just DRK/BTC (Bitfinex seems to be good for that), I'd still just use MP, though Poloniex hasn't had any trouble in quite some time and adds coins far quicker. They just don't have too much volume. I guess Bittrex is ok as well, I just don't like their interface.

[splawik21]

So need to tell you something too
The dev of clevermining.com have response me that he thnx me for notifying him and he will update too

[chaeplin]

So need to tell you something too
The dev of clevermining.com have response me that he thnx me for notifying him and he will update too

Does clevermining.com have X11 pool ?

The dev of clevermining.com is very thoughtful

[Lauda]

going to get my darkcoins out just to be safe  any other good exchanges you guys recommend

For trading more than just DRK/BTC (Bitfinex seems to be good for that), I'd still just use MP, though Poloniex hasn't had any trouble in quite some time and adds coins far quicker. They just don't have too much volume. I guess Bittrex is ok as well, I just don't like their interface.

Cryptsy, mine are on it and I didn't encounter any problems ever with them.

[splawik21]

So need to tell you something too
The dev of clevermining.com have response me that he thnx me for notifying him and he will update too

Does clevermining.com have X11 pool ?

The dev of clevermining.com is very thoughtful

We will see what will happen...
EDITL: exacly...I can see only scrypt. I`ll better inform me if he has X11 to....
EDIT2. X11 will be added to the pool very soon. (dev`s response)