[ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Worlds First Decentralized Game/World on the Blockchain

[MithrilMan]

I'm not sure about changing distribution of mined to game coins, since the focus of the currency is the game (human mineable), I think at least 50% of rewards should go there, or just keep current setup.

Agree with keeping current setup, "human minable" should be a dogma on this coin and probably could be miners reward could be adjusted in another way like using the gamefund maybe

I already though about this in the past but never talked about, and this isn't the moment to do that, but since this is in-topic, using a refactored version of gamefund could be an alternative way to pay the miners


Just posting here for reference for future discussion:
Let me try to recap current fee mechanics and miners income (correct me if i'm wrong)

- 10 HUC are generated per block: 1 coin to miners, 8.75 coins onto the map and 0.25 coins for Crown of Fortune (as per OP post).
- Whenever a hunter goes over a bank to collect gathered coins, there is a 10% fee that goes to miners
- Whenever a hunter dies, the coins he carries are dropped on the map, minus a 4% that goes to miners
- Whenever a hunter is created, the player spend 200HUC (that are recoverable if not killed by other hunters) plus 5HUC that go, as game action fee, to GameFund
- Whenever a hunter attacks (destroy), 20 HUC are sent, as game action fee, to GameFund
- Whenever a disaster happens, every time a hunter dies by poison, the loot he carries is sent to GameFund (not stated on OP post)
- Whenever a disaster happens, if the crown holder dies by poison, the crown is dropped and the content is sent to gamefund (not stated on OP post)

there is a fee on every move too, depending even on tx size, but it's so low that can be ignored atm

From a player point of view, all these taxes are too much (mostly the attack fee) and this is something that should have been fixed already time ago but we keep being strangled by that, even because it's not balanced with coins that are on the map (if you want to cover the cost of an attack mining coins on the map it would take a lot of time even on a demi empty map).
Beside this, that it's a problem i hope will be fixed with next release of the huntercore and that anyway involve changing some PVP rules, i want to go back to Miners topic.

As a miner point of view, every block grants 1 + eventual fees applied on game transaction on that block (so the little fee on every moves, and the % decurted from death hunters and collected loot)
If we consider merged mining as a "free mining", because computed power on other coins is reused as is, without the need to waste resources for huntercoin, we could set a fixed amount that goes to miners and not based on actions on the transaction included in the block (we could give a little bonus depending on transaction count maybe, or on special blocks like the disaster one)

This way we could manage a lot better the coins and the game could really be full human mineable.


TLTR basically this is what i propose:
Every block generate 10 coins that goes all on the map (and we can even add some from gamefunds, if available, so we could decide to put 15 or 20 HUC per block)
Every current fees are considered Game Action Fees and are sent to two special container: GameFunds and MinerFunds (distribution is something to talk about, but most of the coins should go to gamefund)
Game Action Fees should be fixed (lower attack fee and no fees on dropped coins during a fight should be the primary changes)

Coins on GameFunds could be used to generate ingame contests (like reach point X,Y and stand there for 10 blocks, etc...) or to distrubute even more coins on the map per block or other funny stuff we can think about, like random NPC wandering on the map, special treasures, etc...

About miners : miners now gains a fixed amount every block, taken from MinerFunds (if available), like 0.05 HUC for every hunter on the map plus all technical tx fees (based on tx size, that actually should be 0.1 if i remind right) or anyway we can think about a dynamic formula

If we then decide to have another "non mergeable" algo, we could add a multiplier to the "miners fee formula" just for that algo


What do you think about this ideas?
What i like is that this way the game would be really be total human mine-able!!
And other PROS are we can think about having dynamic formulas for both fees and miners income and players would be happier to play because of lower fees and more income possibilities.

We really need to shake up this coin.

(I've other ideas about gameplay changes but don't want to talk about too much topics atm)

[wiggi]

the difficulty for sha256 won't adjust until a block is mined.
it uses PPC's original smooth re targeting algo, so re-targets every block.

for sha256 we would need someone to mine one block or merge mine it - to lower the difficulty - the issue with it is that once it's lowered it's more open to abuse i think

Yes, as long as no sha256 blocks are produced the security hole of a low sha256 difficulty is plugged.

Perhaps the "surprise halving" also initiated the recent uptrend.

Personally - i'd vote at changing the sha256 algo to something else anyway

If sha256 would be replaced with some kind of Pos, I certainly would have it sit on my desktop all day. It's the only coin with a world to watch from above in its wallet

However, lowering the share of coins for the game at this point would be like ripping the soul out of Huntercoin.

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

The lack of SHA256 blocks being mined is definitely boosting the price because now half as many coins are going to miners with half as many blocks being mined. That means half as many coins are being sold for profit or to recoup costs.

You could interpret this to argue that we need to to update the protocol to give less newly-mined coins to miners and more to the game, but I think that would be kind of manipulative. It might also not solve the problem because it could encourage more bots in the game, who would also sell coins for profit, having a similar effect.

We don't want to make forks that affect the money supply or mining system very often, so if we're going to do it, we need to do it along with a lot of other things at the same time. That will take time and planning. Meanwhile, we have an effective block time of 2 minutes that we should fix, or gameplay suffers.

Immediate solution: we must unstuck the SHA256 mining system. I think it unlikely that someone with enough mining power to take advantage of that will be inclined to and capable of doing so; players who would know how would also know they'd be hurting the game they like to play, and devaluing their mined HUC. I think the uptrend will weaken, but not totally die, because the types of people who will take over mining will be less likely to sell their HUC than pool miners were.

[wiggi]

You could interpret this to argue that we need to to update the protocol to give less newly-mined coins to miners and more to the game, but I think that would be kind of manipulative.

if we're going to do it, we need to do it along with a lot of other things at the same time. That will take time and planning.

I couldn't agree more, the amount coins to game/coins to miners should stay the same, and if a hardfork is eventually unavoidable, we should put some thought into it.


It's a bit risky to try asking the coin holders (perhaps this reveals them to be unaware or apathetic), but I'd like to start and ask "How fast should players be able to log out and leave the map". Even under normal circumstances (1 minute block time) having assets at risk for hours in an all out pvp killing field may (or may not) be the main reason to drive new players away.

So...Call for votes: What should be the top-level design goal?

#1 average time to logout 100 chronons, for each hunter, on average. This is about the status quo. No one can play without an advanced client and without being online for several hours.

#2 average time to logout 60 chronons. This could be achieved by increasing the number of banks.

#3 average time to logout 40 chronons.

#4 average time to logout 30 chronons. Now most hunters do have a bank to go and despawn that won't disappear before they can reach it.

#5 average time to logout 20 chronons. Could be achieved through a combination of more banks + logout if standing still for X chronons. This would keep the bank function and not dumb down the game.

#6 average time to logout 15 chronons.

#7 average time to logout 10 chronons. Below that if may become impractical, with accidental auto-logouts, or bank spam

#8 average time to logout 7 chronons.

#9 average time to logout 5 chronons. As a design goal (it's supposed to be playable on mobile)


How to vote, long version:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435170.msg14541434#msg14541434

Short version
#1 send XX000.11299975 coins to yourself
#2 send XX000.21299975 coins to yourself
...
#7 send XX000.71299975 coins to yourself
#8 send XX000.81299975 coins to yourself
(XX >= 25, the more the better)
Any client or daemon can be used.

Moving these coins (or the change, if any) again will delete the vote.

Votes are counted at block 1299975. I'll post results here (betterQt makes an up-to-date result list for each block)

We really need to shake up this coin.

(I've other ideas about gameplay changes but don't want to talk about too much topics atm)

Yes, one-by-one, the fee structure is for next week...

[domob]

And another time:  I've just updated the chain download, now it is up-to-date until block 1,295k.

[jwinterm]

I don't have too many coins, and sync is going really slow, but I vote for the fastest time to logout. I'll try to get synced and make it official.

[wiggi]

I don't have too many coins, and sync is going really slow, but I vote for the fastest time to logout. I'll try to get synced and make it official.

This would be cool, every extra bit can make the difference between voting being a dud and other voting rounds coming with more and more coins participating and actual influence.

[jwinterm]

Voted - 9ee879a7cb66c5be7a57ef171ee37ec844df2c6deafa3a2fcfbd627d0a6a9ad8

Was gonna grab some coins and add some power to my vote, but price is up quite a bit, maybe next week

Edit: Man, blocks are coming in super slow, only like two confirms in 20 min or so.

Edit2: 70 min and still only 2 confirms. I guess game isn't really playable atm?

[wiggi]

Voted - 9ee879a7cb66c5be7a57ef171ee37ec844df2c6deafa3a2fcfbd627d0a6a9ad8

And it's counted (and line feed chars do make it into the blockchain, only the client's chat window and the chat view in https://www.huntercoin.info/blockExplorer ignore them)

adv_motion.txt

Code:

 Votes (chronon 1296505, mainnet)
 --------------------------------

                                          hunter             coins           motion
storage vault key                           name     gems    (*1k)   vote    id-tag   close

HGnVxAdPpMECmUPBr9kUDQouYdE7ZPHt2C    #Anonymous     0.00      210    #8    1299975  1299975
HKKPtEh5sN8qz2fZMnWnJwgwekZti42m4R    #Anonymous     0.00      158    #7    1299975  1299975
HVJWcbZ7yvkY61FfwmpouDTaf7bL6Ju2Q3    #Anonymous     0.00       33    #9    1299975  1299975
HVhyiJihnePkMxhBwobBXhMaddAJmfWUiq          Tala     1.10       25    #7    1299975  1299975

  Tala: "How fast should a hunter be able to bank + log out? (vote with coins)
#1...100 chronons
#2...60 chronons
#3...40 chronons
#4...30 chronons
#5...20 chronons
#6...15 chronons
#7...10 chronons
#8...7 chronons
#9...5 chronons

Details:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435170.msg15515861#msg15515861"


 Vote tally (chronon 1299975)
 ----------------------------

                                                             coins
vote                                                 gems    (*1k)

#7                                                   1.10      183
#8                                                   0.00      210
#9                                                   0.00       33

[jwinterm]

10 chronons in the lead atm. Since we're getting apparently about 2 chronons per hour, that's only 5 hours needed to quit playing the game

[wiggi]

Edit: Man, blocks are coming in super slow, only like two confirms in 20 min or so.

Edit2: 70 min and still only 2 confirms. I guess game isn't really playable atm?

stuck client.  https://www.huntercoin.info/blockExplorer shows 20 blocks/40 minutes relatively constant.

I use Mint/Mate in VirtualBox to play, it never hangs. Really not even once in almost a year.

[jwinterm]

Edit: Man, blocks are coming in super slow, only like two confirms in 20 min or so.

Edit2: 70 min and still only 2 confirms. I guess game isn't really playable atm?

stuck client.  https://www.huntercoin.info/blockExplorer shows 20 blocks/40 minutes relatively constant.

I use Mint/Mate in VirtualBox to play, it never hangs. Really not even once in almost a year.

You're correct, thanks. It hung a couple times during sync, but I just assumed for whatever reason that once it was synced it wouldn't hang anymore. Clearly not the case. Using win10 here, I'll try it on a linux machine or virtual machine.

[jwinterm]

I think I just invalidated my vote by creating a hunter :/ Didn't look like shortest time was gonna win anyway...

Anyway, seems like blocks are coming pretty slowly, maybe one every few minutes, and zero sha blocks still.

I guess if you are trying to program a bot or something, you have to balance giving away your future movement with paying tx fees for each movement. I mean, ideally you would move one square at a time and not let anyone know where you're going, but that will start to add up in terms of tx fees I guess to some extent.

Is the hanging on win10 a known issue? Is it a spinny hd thing? Is there any workaround to kickstart it or something, or just use linux?

[MithrilMan]

in past days i lost more than 10 fights because my transaction just got ignored respect others, even if i send it 30 seconds before enemy
this lead me to think that current miner is cheating, ignoring the transaction of players he wants, so i can't relay on the game now
If this isn't cheating, then is even worse because i can't imagine why my destruct didn't goes in at the same time of another one that send the same transaction with same fees, but 30 seconds later!


Is there a way to know if current generated blocks are from the same source?


P.S.
to not add insult to injury, a transaction with a destruct fee should be returned if the hunter is destroyed before his destruct tx being accepted ....

update:
i've added a statistic module to my client (wip) and i see that in the past 23 days i spent ~8700 huc as fee to gamefunds, that's insane

[wiggi]

I think I just invalidated my vote by creating a hunter :/ Didn't look like shortest time was gonna win anyway...

I'd say you never deleted it. And #9 is only 108k behind #8.

But this is a problem, without using a specific client there's no feedback of whether the vote was recognized, or deleted or not.

It hung a couple times during sync, but I just assumed for whatever reason that once it was synced it wouldn't hang anymore. Clearly not the case.

Depends. With betterQt on Windows (7, don't know about 10), the risk of hanging goes way down the moment you press middle mouse button in game tab for the first time. But it's never zero, so I prefer to play in a Linux VM.

I guess if you are trying to program a bot or something, you have to balance giving away your future movement with paying tx fees for each movement. I mean, ideally you would move one square at a time and not let anyone know where you're going, but that will start to add up in terms of tx fees I guess to some extent.

The future movement given away can also be a feint. But mostly it's just like calling dibs, if you have a hunter walk to some low tier harvest area, rational opponents may avoid it, if you have 4 hunters walk to a crescent shaped harvest area, rational opponents (especially if only one) may retreat.

[IconFirm]

Did a sha block get mined? I received a payment from mining - my second in 6 months! 

#sHUCked!

[wiggi]

in past days i lost more than 10 fights because my transaction just got ignored respect others, even if i send it 30 seconds before enemy
this lead me to think that current miner is cheating, ignoring the transaction of players he wants, so i can't relay on the game now
If this isn't cheating, then is even worse because i can't imagine why my destruct didn't goes in at the same time of another one that send the same transaction with same fees, but 30 seconds later!


Is there a way to know if current generated blocks are from the same source?

The element of chance is now much larger than before. No more neat rules like "if tx is 60 seconds old and a block comes out it will not be in, but after 65 seconds it will".

But it seems to affect everyone evenly matched.

Need to check what happened when f2p scrypt blocks (i.e. HPDTLRqahPPoVx4Vt2HowVGnXEBFp8Ne1m) stopped.

[MithrilMan]

in past days i lost more than 10 fights because my transaction just got ignored respect others, even if i send it 30 seconds before enemy
this lead me to think that current miner is cheating, ignoring the transaction of players he wants, so i can't relay on the game now
If this isn't cheating, then is even worse because i can't imagine why my destruct didn't goes in at the same time of another one that send the same transaction with same fees, but 30 seconds later!


Is there a way to know if current generated blocks are from the same source?

The element of chance is now much larger than before. No more neat rules like "if tx is 60 seconds old and a block comes out it will not be in, but after 65 seconds it will".

But it seems to affect everyone evenly matched.

Need to check what happened when f2p scrypt blocks (i.e. HPDTLRqahPPoVx4Vt2HowVGnXEBFp8Ne1m) stopped.

the fact is that i received the enemy pending tx after more than 30 seconds, so at least i would expect our tx go into the same block and not his tx before mine

[snailbrain]

it's possible that when f2pool were mining blocks (sha256 and scrypt - both on the same daemon using a mod they did after some time), most people had their IP/nodes connected to f2pool node(s) and saved in addr.dat.

it's possible you are not directly connected to the current miners node or the other players node (limited by 8 connections?) - could be the tx had not yet been received by you but had been received by the miner (tx needs to get relayed and propagate through  the network - people receive txs at different times)

maybe solution would be to open the port 8988 (i think it's that port, will chekc later if not) and forward port to your daemon/PC, or if upnp is enabled and working properly (on daemon and router) it should open up itself.

This should then increase your maximum of 8 connections and you will maybe get a direct connection to the miner and player - the more connections you have the faster you will receive txs

just a guess and may be wrong.

-

if we had lots more miners (changing algos?) would it be more like that or not?

[snailbrain]

i'm doing some testing with huntercore -

i sent myself 1050 hucs to huntercore wallet from old-current-wallet - totally skipped "pending" on huntercore (memory pool) and went straight into the wallet after a min.

I suspect this actually is the issue MM experienced (in my last post).
probably need more connections, or more miners/nodes/better-connected-nodes -

i will keep testing (could be huntercore has issues with memory pool?)