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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1255386 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
Biodom
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June 23, 2014, 07:36:22 PM
 #3481

I had no problem with the spondoolies ROI estimates being here, but take a look at the direction that whole discussion was taking and it clearly had nothing to do with hardware by the end with name calling and what not. In the interest of not just deleting posts the discussion was kept together as best as the forum system allows. Note, no post was deleted or censored. The hardware subsection is meant to be mostly dry technical discussion as per the rules outlined here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139380.0 and yes it's very hard to maintain that standard throughout the section but usually once someone starts complaining that's when we're even aware there is an issue on a thread.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Considering that most people interested in mining and considering a hardware purchase will probably read the threads in this section of the forum and likely miss discussions in the speculation section, would you agree that it is fair to allow non-abusive discussion of SP30 ROI in this thread in order to maintain a balanced discussion ?
Remember this is the hardware section for mostly technical discussion and announcements, BUT we are usually quite liberal with allowing discussion to wander, especially if the opening poster is happy for the discussion to veer off in that direction but it's very easy to suddenly find yourself in a discussion debating the ROI equation of some totally unrelated hardware like the Neptune when that happens. We usually don't intervene in self moderated threads since that defeats the purpose of self moderation unless there is open abuse or spam. The topic that caused the split degraded into the former.

I'm very happy to see discussions of the likelihood of recouping costs since I hate to see people throw their money away thinking they're buying some money making unicorn machine that will make them rich and that never happens. My personal view is you will never ever be able to buy hardware again that earns more than it cost you, meaning the only way to make money with mining hardware is to buy it, mine with it for a while and then sell it while it's still worth something, and avoid preorders like the plague. There was one preorder in the history of bitcoin ASIC mining that made an absolutely embarrassing killing profit for those who got it first and it tainted how people have thrown their money at manufacturers and scammers since, even though the conditions for that same thing happening will never ever happen again unless we can make quantum computers.

Thanks for a great, but disconcerting comment. It rings true, but many people (including myself) cannot believe it yet (guilty of preordering SP-30 even after the KnC debacle).
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June 23, 2014, 07:40:03 PM
 #3482

I'm very happy to see discussions of the likelihood of recouping costs

Thank you so much again for your thoughtful reply.
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June 23, 2014, 08:00:24 PM
 #3483

So, Spondoolies is providing hardware to DataTankMining in return for mining/hosting capacity?

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
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June 23, 2014, 08:43:26 PM
 #3484

Watch out boys, only approved comments are allowed in this so called 'self-moderated' SPT thread. I think we need a new thread just for Spondooles ROI discussions.

So true.  Funny how the off topic BS about p2pool seems to stay, guess it pays to be a blind fan-boy verses doing MATH.



There's a big difference between offering each other help while patting each other on the back versus conversations that devolved into scathing abusive attacks.

Read those moved threads and tell us which one do you think deserved ckolivas' judicious moderator ban hammer love tap?

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June 23, 2014, 09:52:59 PM
 #3485

Watch out boys, only approved comments are allowed in this so called 'self-moderated' SPT thread. I think we need a new thread just for Spondooles ROI discussions.

So true.  Funny how the off topic BS about p2pool seems to stay, guess it pays to be a blind fan-boy verses doing MATH.



There's a big difference between offering each other help while patting each other on the back versus conversations that devolved into scathing abusive attacks.

Read those moved threads and tell us which one do you think deserved ckolivas' judicious moderator ban hammer love tap?

That is a really simplistic view of what has been happening in these forums. Standard SPT referrer program participant tactics seem to be:

1) escalate any remarks mentioning the pre-order nature of the SP30, the lack of any refund or delivery guarantees, and the questions about whether the SP30 will ever recover its cost into mudslinging contests with the first willing participant, then run to the mods to get the comments deleted

2) troll the other hardware threads spreading FUD about Bitmain, KNC and others to a degree far worse than anything that happens in this thread.

Lets not focus on which thread deserved what. Lets focus on the important issue we were discussing: what is the likelihood of the Aug. and Sept. SP30 pre-orders recovering their cost before they operate at a loss.

The burden of proof should be on Spondoolies to show a reasonable case that SP30 retail customers will ROI, not on potential customers to show that it won't.

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June 23, 2014, 11:09:28 PM
 #3486

So, Spondoolies is providing hardware to DataTankMining in return for mining/hosting capacity?

No

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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June 24, 2014, 03:19:24 AM
 #3487

like the tradeblock calculator uses, is NOT realistic There is not a chance in hell the difficulty will be anywhere near 135G come 2015.

Reserved.

Was my post deleted?  Huh

Yeah, mine too. I'm guessing RoadStress has op in this thread, or Raskul, or both.

Same here. Posts deleted. I guess some information is too important to be let out still. BUT, you have an option to visit the mirror site that doesn't allow deletion of posts.
https://bitcointa.lk/forums/custom-hardware.24/


Need help with your Newznab usenet indexer? http://www.newznabforums.com
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June 24, 2014, 03:23:15 AM
 #3488

No meaningful posts have been deleted but it has been split into new topics. Spondoolies have been very generous in never deleting any posts but the discussion is way off topic for hardware discussion. Much has been moved to mining speculation. Self moderated thread opening posters only have the ability to delete posts, not move them.

Alas there is limited scope for a decent topic split so the following exists:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=663094.0

and another but I have to leave only one open
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=663087.0

so if you feel obliged to continue the discussion, use the former thread which has the less abusive posts. Some got lost as collateral damage due to the limited nature of the thread splitting feature for this forum, and for that I apologise.

When there are 10 different topics in 10 different areas makes it difficult to find information and follow along.

If an SP30 can bring home 9 bitcoin before it starts losing money then you will ROI. Maybe a year? If not or you will never catch up, then it will never ROI and you'll have a nice BTC machine.

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June 24, 2014, 04:23:50 AM
 #3489

There's a big difference between offering each other help while patting each other on the back versus conversations that devolved into scathing abusive attacks.

Read those moved threads and tell us which one do you think deserved ckolivas' judicious moderator ban hammer love tap?

That is a really simplistic view of what has been happening in these forums. Standard SPT referrer program participant tactics seem to be:

1) escalate any remarks mentioning the pre-order nature of the SP30, the lack of any refund or delivery guarantees, and the questions about whether the SP30 will ever recover its cost into mudslinging contests with the first willing participant, then run to the mods to get the comments deleted

2) troll the other hardware threads spreading FUD about Bitmain, KNC and others to a degree far worse than anything that happens in this thread.

Lets not focus on which thread deserved what. Lets focus on the important issue we were discussing: what is the likelihood of the Aug. and Sept. SP30 pre-orders recovering their cost before they operate at a loss.

The burden of proof should be on Spondoolies to show a reasonable case that SP30 retail customers will ROI, not on potential customers to show that it won't.

Please show me proof for the FUD about Bitmain.

I thought this thread is about the SP-Tech company and its miners, not about ROI and not about the case for the customers. Each vendor's thread should be about the vendor and the products, not about financial speculations.

When there are 10 different topics in 10 different areas makes it difficult to find information and follow along.
If an SP30 can bring home 9 bitcoin before it starts losing money then you will ROI. Maybe a year? If not or you will never catch up, then it will never ROI and you'll have a nice BTC machine.

This has been discussed so many times already. As stated before I think there is a small misconception about the bitcoin ROI. Buying and holding 9 bitcoins raises the question of when you exchange them back to fiat or what are you doing with them while mining gives you more options.The way I see it it this:

- Exchange rate doesn't move for 6-12 months:
         - Buying and holding makes 0 profit;
         - Mining will show a profit because there is less incentive to deploy new hashpower
- Exchange rate goes up (fast or slow):
         - Buying and holding will show a profit, but uncertain because of the moment of exchanging. Will you exchange at 1000$, 1200$, 1500$ and so on. If you exchange 3 bitcoin at 1000$ and next month you have a 1200$ rate then you lost some profit there, while mining tends to smooth a bit this;
         - Mining will always show a profit if exchange rate goes up. I realize that it will be smaller than buying and holding if the exchange rate will go up fast, but since nobody doesn't know the future I prefer the conservative way instead of the lotto way.

There you have it. Out of 4 possibilities only 3 will show a profit and 2 out of 3 are from mining. It's everyone's choice how he plans his financing. All ROI discussions sums up to the above for me and I feel that it's a very over discussed general subject. Comparing competition offers in terms of pricing and performance is one thing, but the ROI discussions tend to be more a matter of personal preference and speculation than a neutral thing like pure hardware performance.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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June 24, 2014, 04:34:59 AM
 #3490

Let me throw this into the mix: I'm now mining an altcoin with my SP10 - it is my assertion that next BTC difficulty rise will make this coin (TEK) more profitable to mine than BTC. with 1.5TH/s i'm mining approx 70 TEK per 24 hrs, which equates to ~0.052BTC at current rate

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/114

TEKcoin will stake, after 30 days - 40%

70 TEK + 40% = 98TEK per day = 0.0728BTC per day at current TEK/BTC rate.

So currently it's Pretty much even (slightly more than) with BTC. Catch your sell on a high - TEK can peak at around 80-82k satoshi and you have pretty much beaten Bitcoin by 0.02BTC per day.

So, i've now moved away from mining BTC - having been buying up Zimstake (12% per annum) with all my BTC earnings from the last month, TEK is indeed more profitable in the long run. The only thing about TEK, it won't stake until 30days, so you have to wait for it, but when it does - 40% per month.

so Yes, an SP30 at $5k is still a profitable investment - don't be so blinkered to bitcoin.
pool http://tek.centralcavern.uk

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June 24, 2014, 08:38:23 AM
Last edit: June 24, 2014, 09:01:25 AM by Collider
 #3491

It is quite easy really,

if you think it will ROI then buy it.

If you don´t, then don´t.

Nobody can predict any financial market (especially not BTC) or difficulty development in the future, or else he would be a rich man.

Spondoolies has to make some profit aswell, as its investors want to see a return on their investment (the initially loaned money aswell as their contractually agreed share of the profit)

They also need to recover the not at all trivial NRE that went into these projects.


Also, prices are (more or less) dictated by supply and demand. As long as spondoolies sells all produced units, the price is right.
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June 24, 2014, 12:54:57 PM
 #3492

I'd like to hear from Guy on this subject before you folks get back to all the backslapping and that 'a boy stuff.

Guy, why should potential SP30 customers expect to recover their costs and make a decent return mining bitcoin with the SP30 ?
Please identify any assumptions you make about network difficulty trends, the bitcoin exchange rate and any other variables and provide a reasonable supporting rationale for them.


Thanks so much. It sounds like it is going to be a super product. I want to hear the ROI case for it.
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June 24, 2014, 01:36:23 PM
 #3493

Please keep this thread on topic.  All posts in a thread should be strictly related to the subject set by the original post.  The incessant name-calling and allegations related to other vendors and unrelated to this thread do not belong here.  Complaints about things being removed from this thread do not belong here. (I will also remove this post, once it's been around enough for people to see it— replies to it, again, do not belong here).
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June 24, 2014, 01:59:43 PM
 #3494

Please keep this thread on topic.  All posts in a thread should be strictly related to the subject set by the original post.  The incessant name-calling and allegations related to other vendors and unrelated to this thread do not belong here.  Complaints about things being removed from this thread do not belong here. (I will also remove this post, once it's been around enough for people to see it— replies to it, again, do not belong here).

Maybe you should remove s1gs3gv post above you because this is the third time when he is asking about ROI and it was answered both previous times. This is getting boring now. And as previously said this thread should be about the actual hardware and the actual company, not about ROI speculation. (of course feel free to delete this post too)

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June 24, 2014, 02:02:56 PM
 #3495

Please keep this thread on topic.  All posts in a thread should be strictly related to the subject set by the original post.  The incessant name-calling and allegations related to other vendors and unrelated to this thread do not belong here.  Complaints about things being removed from this thread do not belong here. (I will also remove this post, once it's been around enough for people to see it— replies to it, again, do not belong here).

Maybe you should remove s1gs3gv post above you because this is the third time when he is asking about ROI and it was answered both previous times. This is getting boring now. And as previously said this thread should be about the actual hardware and the actual company, not about ROI speculation. (of course feel free to delete this post too)


I think we deserve to hear Guy (the Spondoolies CEO) make the case for the SP30 RoadStress. After all, this is the SP30 thread.
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June 24, 2014, 02:11:31 PM
 #3496

Please keep this thread on topic.  All posts in a thread should be strictly related to the subject set by the original post.  The incessant name-calling and allegations related to other vendors and unrelated to this thread do not belong here.  Complaints about things being removed from this thread do not belong here. (I will also remove this post, once it's been around enough for people to see it— replies to it, again, do not belong here).

Maybe you should remove s1gs3gv post above you because this is the third time when he is asking about ROI and it was answered both previous times. This is getting boring now. And as previously said this thread should be about the actual hardware and the actual company, not about ROI speculation. (of course feel free to delete this post too)


I think we deserve to hear Guy (the Spondoolies CEO) make the case for the SP30 RoadStress. After all, this is the SP30 thread.

Because all Bitcoin mining manufacturers CEOs have done this in the past...Troll much?

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June 24, 2014, 02:29:48 PM
 #3497

RoadStress, if discussions about SP30 ROI don't belong in an SP30 thread, then this forum has no future.

At the risk of being accused of going off-topic and giving you an excuse to try to suppress this discussion one more time, other mining equipment manufacturers have directly addressed this question. Bitmain's S3 ANN thread and their chart describing the historic ROI situation for the S1 and their company policy towards customer ROI provides one good example.

I don't troll for anyone. For any reason. At any time.
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June 24, 2014, 03:32:47 PM
 #3498

Watch out boys, only approved comments are allowed in this so called 'self-moderated' SPT thread. I think we need a new thread just for Spondooles ROI discussions.

Although this thread is self-moderated, we don't delete comments. This thread should be kept for hardware related questions, per the subject. The mods are enforcing it, without our request, but with our consent.
You're welcome to do ROI discussions elsewhere.

Guy

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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June 24, 2014, 03:42:52 PM
Last edit: June 24, 2014, 04:08:35 PM by Biodom
 #3499

Watch out boys, only approved comments are allowed in this so called 'self-moderated' SPT thread. I think we need a new thread just for Spondooles ROI discussions.

Although this thread is self-moderated, we don't delete comments. This thread should be kept for hardware related questions, per the subject. The mods are enforcing it, without our request, but with our consent.
You're welcome to do ROI discussions elsewhere.

Guy

I beg your pardon, but the title of your thread is:...."Best $/GH/s ratio", so I am not exactly sure how this is not related to ROI.
Edit: OK, if not ROI, then it is definitely a comparison with what? Other machines?
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June 24, 2014, 03:44:10 PM
 #3500

RoadStress, if discussions about SP30 ROI don't belong in an SP30 thread, then this forum has no future.

At the risk of being accused of going off-topic and giving you an excuse to try to suppress this discussion one more time, other mining equipment manufacturers have directly addressed this question. Bitmain's S3 ANN thread and their chart describing the historic ROI situation for the S1 and their company policy towards customer ROI provides one good example.

I don't troll for anyone. For any reason. At any time.

Discussion of ROI belong in a single thread. Since it's pure speculation and it's a generic topic which can be applied to any miner. If it goes on other threads it doesn't mean that it's the correct way to do it. Vendor threads should be about their products and their services, not about speculation.

I beg your pardon, but the title of your thread is:...."Best $/GH/s ratio", so I am not exactly sure how this is not related to ROI.

It's not fully related to ROI. It can be also related to other offers which are on the market and that has nothing to do with ROI.

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