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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1256072 times)
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July 23, 2014, 08:46:38 PM
 #4421

The question is does the gear do 5th or 4th?

5th would call for  17% refund

4th  would call for  33% refund.
Actually, it would call for a higher refund as the power efficiency would also be impacted by either 17% or 33% (in your example).

It would call for an additional 500$ refund if the power efficiency would be off by 17%. (calculated on a basis of 100$/kW/m hosting cost and maximum power draw of 2.7kW at the wall, over one year only)

This is a conservative estimate, but let´s wait until final specs are released.
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July 23, 2014, 08:47:22 PM
 #4422

You are mistaking SP-Tech with BFL.

I can very well differentiate BFL from SP-Tech and have said that SP-Tech have an amazing product with SP10.

If each chip pulls double the wattage that it was supposed to, do you think they made sure that the copper layers in the PCB can handle the extra load? Can the rest of the components handle the extra load?

The may not need "Two Weeks" as BFL did to redesign a PCB board 50 times, but it has not been ruled out.
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July 23, 2014, 08:50:41 PM
 #4423

preorder is always a bad deal

sp30 will earn much less btc than in hand hardware you can buy now

dont forget about hosting fees due to ridiculous cooling design

unit should be 4u and have 8x120 fans

also that promised specs can be not achieved,

remember terraminer or bfl?

What in hand hardware?

So because 2 companies which started as a scam failed/scammed you think that SP30 won't reach the specs? I know that you haven't really thought about it, but please do an effort to think a bit more.

there are a lot of hardware in hand with specs reached Smiley
i was not scammed by any company, i dont buy preorders,
only hardware in hand, used or new.
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July 23, 2014, 08:59:10 PM
 #4424

This is one of the problems you run into when not testing chips and / or having test boards with one chip.

It is harder to make out the reason why the chip is performing not as simulated.

Then again, they seem confident that they will be able to get the unit working on the ordered pcbs, so the problem can´t be too big a deal.

Let´s see what the results of the more detailed analysing is, and we will all be wiser.
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July 23, 2014, 08:59:57 PM
 #4425

It will be interesting to see if the SP30 can match the KncMiner Neptune and Bitmain S3 power efficiency of ~.7W/GH.

Also, I'm sure Bitmain could create a S4 and run their BM1382 chip at a lower clock speed to get far better power efficiency than .7W/GH. They did the same thing with the BM1380 in the S2 and got twice the power efficiency versus the S1.
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July 23, 2014, 09:01:17 PM
 #4426

This is one of the problems you run into when not testing chips and / or having test boards with one chip.

It is harder to make out the reason why the chip is performing not as simulated.

Then again, they seem confident that they will be able to get the unit working on the ordered pcbs, so the problem can´t be too big a deal.

Let´s see what the results of the more detailed analysing is, and we will all be wiser.
 at worse numbers.  but no time delay .


now as kendog77 mentions  the s-3 can be undervolted.

so a s-3 which runs at  .75 watts doing 430gh   pulling 323 watts.

may be  able to do 400gh at 240 watts say .6 watts. 

the sp30 camp will be hurt.  well the preorder/btc only  order model  needs to be put to rest and the silver lining here may be  people stop buying that way.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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July 23, 2014, 09:13:07 PM
 #4427

Quote
And so it begins (well...with this BS hardware vendor).

I got railed for calling out this CO. and the people stepping on women and children to line up for these bullshit non existent pieces of hardware and now gee...guess fucking what?  THEY WON'T EVER DELIVER.

This will not end until the mining community stops giving unknown random people on the Internet millions of dollars based on nothing more than an empty promise.

I am expecting apologies for your retardness when I will get my SP30 in a couple of days.

I can't wait for Roadstress to review his unit Friday or Monday since is he so confident he will have his in a couple of days.  By then we will have official updated specs from SP and an in hand unit that Roadstress will hopefully give a full right up about.
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July 23, 2014, 09:18:41 PM
 #4428

Quote
And so it begins (well...with this BS hardware vendor).

I got railed for calling out this CO. and the people stepping on women and children to line up for these bullshit non existent pieces of hardware and now gee...guess fucking what?  THEY WON'T EVER DELIVER.

This will not end until the mining community stops giving unknown random people on the Internet millions of dollars based on nothing more than an empty promise.

I am expecting apologies for your retardness when I will get my SP30 in a couple of days.

I can't wait for Roadstress to review his unit Friday or Monday since is he so confident he will have his in a couple of days.  By then we will have official updated specs from SP and an in hand unit that Roadstress will hopefully give a full right up about.

sorry to dissapoint you but there will be delays.
due to underperforming/unstable chips/bad pcb
it can take 2 weeks or more to solve that
also airport is closed due to war.

i think august delivery will end up day before september shipping... or 2 weeks later
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July 23, 2014, 09:39:05 PM
 #4429

You are mistaking SP-Tech with BFL.

I can very well differentiate BFL from SP-Tech and have said that SP-Tech have an amazing product with SP10.

If each chip pulls double the wattage that it was supposed to, do you think they made sure that the copper layers in the PCB can handle the extra load? Can the rest of the components handle the extra load?

The may not need "Two Weeks" as BFL did to redesign a PCB board 50 times, but it has not been ruled out.

I find hard to believe that each chip will pull double the wattage, but we will see.

there are a lot of hardware in hand with specs reached Smiley
i was not scammed by any company, i dont buy preorders,
only hardware in hand, used or new.

How many W are you using per month?

now as kendog77 mentions  the s-3 can be undervolted.
so a s-3 which runs at  .75 watts doing 430gh   pulling 323 watts.
may be  able to do 400gh at 240 watts say .6 watts. 
the sp30 camp will be hurt.  well the preorder/btc only  order model  needs to be put to rest and the silver lining here may be  people stop buying that way.

But I like/want bigger miners, not ants. I want big ass Hulk miners!

I can't wait for Roadstress to review his unit Friday or Monday since is he so confident he will have his in a couple of days.  By then we will have official updated specs from SP and an in hand unit that Roadstress will hopefully give a full right up about.

Considering the latest news and the fact that they need to plan more things than before I am expecting my July unit to be in my hands before or on 9 August yes  Cool

sorry to dissapoint you but there will be delays.
due to underperforming/unstable chips/bad pcb
it can take 2 weeks or more to solve that
also airport is closed due to war.

i think august delivery will end up day before september shipping... or 2 weeks later

YOU will be the one that is disappointed. 9 August!

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July 23, 2014, 09:41:36 PM
 #4430

You are mistaking SP-Tech with BFL.

I can very well differentiate BFL from SP-Tech and have said that SP-Tech have an amazing product with SP10.

If each chip pulls double the wattage that it was supposed to, do you think they made sure that the copper layers in the PCB can handle the extra load? Can the rest of the components handle the extra load?

The may not need "Two Weeks" as BFL did to redesign a PCB board 50 times, but it has not been ruled out.

I find hard to believe that each chip will pull double the wattage, but we will see.

there are a lot of hardware in hand with specs reached Smiley
i was not scammed by any company, i dont buy preorders,
only hardware in hand, used or new.

How many W are you using per month?

now as kendog77 mentions  the s-3 can be undervolted.
so a s-3 which runs at  .75 watts doing 430gh   pulling 323 watts.
may be  able to do 400gh at 240 watts say .6 watts. 
the sp30 camp will be hurt.  well the preorder/btc only  order model  needs to be put to rest and the silver lining here may be  people stop buying that way.

But I like/want bigger miners, not ants. I want big ass Hulk miners!

I can't wait for Roadstress to review his unit Friday or Monday since is he so confident he will have his in a couple of days.  By then we will have official updated specs from SP and an in hand unit that Roadstress will hopefully give a full right up about.

Considering the latest news and the fact that they need to plan more things than before I am expecting my July unit to be in my hands before or on 9 August yes  Cool

sorry to dissapoint you but there will be delays.
due to underperforming/unstable chips/bad pcb
it can take 2 weeks or more to solve that
also airport is closed due to war.

i think august delivery will end up day before september shipping... or 2 weeks later

YOU will be the one that is disappointed. 9 August!

Couple days (From YOUR quote) is not within 2 weeks...  Think before you speak please...  I don't doubt they will be here before the 9th, but AFTER the news today you made that post.  Bitcoinarama says what?
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July 23, 2014, 10:05:35 PM
 #4431

Couple days (From YOUR quote) is not within 2 weeks...  Think before you speak please...  I don't doubt they will be here before the 9th, but AFTER the news today you made that post.  Bitcoinarama says what?

No need to quote my full post.

Ok a maximum of 2 weeks seems reasonable considering the latest news and it's still on time for their August batch so I'm happy!

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July 23, 2014, 10:22:44 PM
 #4432

Couple days (From YOUR quote) is not within 2 weeks...  Think before you speak please...  I don't doubt they will be here before the 9th, but AFTER the news today you made that post.  Bitcoinarama says what?

No need to quote my full post.

Ok a maximum of 2 weeks seems reasonable considering the latest news and it's still on time for their August batch so I'm happy!

Just saying i expect delivery as well but I will say this if SP fails  preorders will be officially dead i.e it will be darn near impossible to get pre-orders out of
this community every again or at least in the near term 2-3 years imo.  Which I supposed could be a good thing for our sanity long term.

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July 23, 2014, 10:25:32 PM
 #4433

Couple days (From YOUR quote) is not within 2 weeks...  Think before you speak please...  I don't doubt they will be here before the 9th, but AFTER the news today you made that post.  Bitcoinarama says what?

No need to quote my full post.

Ok a maximum of 2 weeks seems reasonable considering the latest news and it's still on time for their August batch so I'm happy!

If SP has got asics back that arent running at the same power consumption as they expected from their simulations, they certainly wont be the first asic company to have befallen this problem.  actually the problem is endemic and they cant all be doing it wrong !  perhaps there's something about sha-256 asic designs that cause them to somehow require much higher power consumption than the asic simulations indicate (extreme toggle rates etc).. and it seems theyre not alone in this category (cointerra, bfl, kncminer, asicminer etc).  in fact, i dont know anyone who hasnt significantly underestimated their power consumption from simulation to reality (yes, even the mighty bitfury labelled each chip as 5 GH and when they arrived, they did 2.5 GH).

the knock on effect of the asics requiring more power is that in order to run the asics at the same power and thermal envelope to fit in the box that youve designed, you have to under-volt them, and when running at less voltage than they intended the knockon effect is you get less hash rate than you expected (clockspeed is proportional to voltage).  And due to the pre-order process, you dont find out until just before you ship, which means youre guaranteed to disappoint pre-order customers.

Also, as has happened with others, there just arent enough margins to give everyone more hardware to compensate.  Its not like these things have 100% margin so you cant just double up the supply.  Those days are long gone (avalon maybe even kncminer had great margins, the first time around... but the more recent asic companies have operated on much slimmer margins... and their costs are high because every part theyve ordered has to be on a 'rush' schedule which means everything costs a lot more than if you could give the suppliers the usual 12 weeks to source the parts (an eternity in bitcoinland)

SP is using twin Emerson power supplies in the SP30 box.  Each psu is specced at 1,000 watts for 100-200 volts input, and 1,200 watts at 200+ volts input (europe/israel are 220-240 volts and most data-centers in the world can do 208volts).  SP seem confident they will be able to run them at over their quoted spec (usa domestic power is 120 volts, asia is mostly 100volt etc).  the psus probably have more 'give' in them at higher input voltages so i dont expect the europeans or data centers will have an issue but there's less headroom when running on usa domestic power.

http://www.artesyn.com/power/power-supplies/websheet/401/DS1200

Our thoughts are with SP... hope they get their problems sorted quickly and that they pull magic rabbits out of the hat... All this amidst rocketfire and UN peer pressure.
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July 23, 2014, 10:39:31 PM
 #4434

Also, as has happened with others, there just arent enough margins to give everyone more hardware to compensate.  Its not like these things have 100% margin so you cant just double up the supply.  Those days are long gone (avalon maybe even kncminer had great margins, the first time around... but the more recent asic companies have operated on much slimmer margins... and their costs are high because every part theyve ordered has to be on a 'rush' schedule which means everything costs a lot more than if you could give the suppliers the usual 12 weeks to source the parts (an eternity in bitcoinland)

Thank you for another insight on why are pre-orders needed for a new company that already invested in 2 mask sets and on parts for their gen1 miners.

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July 23, 2014, 10:40:46 PM
 #4435

Also, as has happened with others, there just arent enough margins to give everyone more hardware to compensate.  Its not like these things have 100% margin so you cant just double up the supply.  Those days are long gone (avalon maybe even kncminer had great margins, the first time around... but the more recent asic companies have operated on much slimmer margins... and their costs are high because every part theyve ordered has to be on a 'rush' schedule which means everything costs a lot more than if you could give the suppliers the usual 12 weeks to source the parts (an eternity in bitcoinland)

Thank you for another insight on why are pre-orders needed for a new company that already invested in 2 mask sets and on parts for their gen1 miners.

please explain what you mean (and who?) .. im not getting your inference.
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July 23, 2014, 10:45:38 PM
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Also, as has happened with others, there just arent enough margins to give everyone more hardware to compensate.  Its not like these things have 100% margin so you cant just double up the supply.  Those days are long gone (avalon maybe even kncminer had great margins, the first time around... but the more recent asic companies have operated on much slimmer margins... and their costs are high because every part theyve ordered has to be on a 'rush' schedule which means everything costs a lot more than if you could give the suppliers the usual 12 weeks to source the parts (an eternity in bitcoinland)

Thank you for another insight on why are pre-orders needed for a new company that already invested in 2 mask sets and on parts for their gen1 miners.

if youre talking about sp10 versus sp30.. theyre completely different products.   theres little similarity.   the sp10 uses large amounts of small chips, kindof like the antminer/bitfury/asicminer whereas the sp30 uses larger more powerful chips.   has a huge knockon effect on board design (higher power requirement, cooling etc).

Also, since the SP10 was only ever sold from stock (never pre-ordered nor pre-announced) so we didnt know whether its performance on arrival was as simulated as that was never shared with us.  SP had the luxury of delivering an in-stock product, where you know what it does before you sell it so everyone gets what they expected and is extremely happy(!).. whereas the SP30 was a pre-order scenario with high expectations (and risk) from everyone concerned.

Also, as you know... pre-orders as a business model are pretty much over now.  too many punters (AND asic companies) have got burned or scammed and the punters are as much to blame as the asic companies... (many punters play arbitrage games with their preorders, and cancel orders when the bitcoin price drops and becomes more attractive than the miner they ordered.  its a tough market for asic companies to deliver on expectations in the pre-order game, and its tough for customers to trust asic companies.  ergo, the pre-order market is pretty much over.
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July 23, 2014, 11:01:40 PM
 #4437

Also, as has happened with others, there just arent enough margins to give everyone more hardware to compensate.  Its not like these things have 100% margin so you cant just double up the supply.  Those days are long gone (avalon maybe even kncminer had great margins, the first time around... but the more recent asic companies have operated on much slimmer margins... and their costs are high because every part theyve ordered has to be on a 'rush' schedule which means everything costs a lot more than if you could give the suppliers the usual 12 weeks to source the parts (an eternity in bitcoinland)

Thank you for another insight on why are pre-orders needed for a new company that already invested in 2 mask sets and on parts for their gen1 miners.

please explain what you mean (and who?) .. im not getting your inference.

Your statement show that I'm not the only one thinking that securing components from time is better than waiting for chips and then buying them from stock.

Do you need to buy pcbs, components, and server psus months in advance? I'm sure they are a few other components that have long lead times but I really doubt the majority do.

As a customer I prefer them to secure the components in advance than to take the risk to buy them from stock when they could be unavailable.

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July 23, 2014, 11:06:22 PM
 #4438

Also, as has happened with others, there just arent enough margins to give everyone more hardware to compensate.  Its not like these things have 100% margin so you cant just double up the supply.  Those days are long gone (avalon maybe even kncminer had great margins, the first time around... but the more recent asic companies have operated on much slimmer margins... and their costs are high because every part theyve ordered has to be on a 'rush' schedule which means everything costs a lot more than if you could give the suppliers the usual 12 weeks to source the parts (an eternity in bitcoinland)

Thank you for another insight on why are pre-orders needed for a new company that already invested in 2 mask sets and on parts for their gen1 miners.

please explain what you mean (and who?) .. im not getting your inference.

Your statement show that I'm not the only one thinking that securing components from time is better than waiting for chips and then buying them from stock.

Do you need to buy pcbs, components, and server psus months in advance? I'm sure they are a few other components that have long lead times but I really doubt the majority do.

As a customer I prefer them to secure the components in advance than to take the risk to buy them from stock when they could be unavailable.

the reality is there are several reasons they cant bulk order all the parts they need, long in advance of when they need them.

1.  the board needs to be tested before the right parts can be ordered.. which means asics need to be back from the fab.  sure, some parts can be 'risk ordered'... ie, hope theyre the right ones.  but since board tweaks, and most likely, part substitutions happen during the 'bring up' phase, you cant place huge orders for parts that you dont definitely know you want.   Some parts can be ordered in advance (eg Power Supplies), which you definitely know you want, however...

2.  cashflow.   the companies that finance their NRE and production via pre-orders do NOT have an excess of spare cash to tie up ordering huge amounts of parts in advance.  cashflow has to be finely balanced.   Most parts suppliers in bitcoinland require cash in advance and credit facilities arent offered to bitcoin companies (because theyre too new... no 3 year audited history.. and also because, quite frankly, bitcoin companies dont pass compliance/credit checks of the parts suppliers so they expect cash in advance).

Also, the companies who have already produced asics in a previous generation (kncminer, bitfury etc).. have already amassed huge cash piles, both of dollars, and bitcoins... and have the firepower needed to do their next asic without requiring huge pre-orders from punters.    Also, some companies are raising external money from VCs or investors.  Some may even IPO..!    The irony is that the only way that customers can guarantee a supply of bitcoin miners is to pre-order them... because the companies that dont need pre-orders and can already afford to pay for their own NRE and production are the companies that can afford to build their own private mines and not ever need the hassle of taking customer money and all the associated customer support overheads.  an asic company that doesnt have a customer support department is a tiny fraction of the size of one that has lots of customers!





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July 23, 2014, 11:14:20 PM
 #4439

Most guys here bitching never had any SP miner neither ever preordered one.

Hence , STFU until we have detailed reply from SP Tech.

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July 23, 2014, 11:20:51 PM
 #4440



Also, the companies who have already produced asics in a previous generation (kncminer, bitfury etc).. have already amassed huge cash piles, both of dollars, and bitcoins... and have the firepower needed to do their next asic without requiring huge pre-orders from punters.    Also, some companies are raising external money from VCs or investors.  Some may even IPO..!    The irony is that the only way that customers can guarantee a supply of bitcoin miners is to pre-order them... because the companies that dont need pre-orders and can already afford to pay for their own NRE and production are the companies that can afford to build their own private mines and not ever need the hassle of taking customer money and all the associated customer support overheads.  an asic company that doesnt have a customer support department is a tiny fraction of the size of one that has lots of customers!



Are you kidding us???

Knc did not require preorders to build their huge datafarms?

Be serious man.

All is Mine!

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