Coronavirus Outbreak

[PrimeNumber7]

What did any other country do, except for China?

South Korea is the best (but not only) example of other countries handling it differently and better than America.

Both countries had their first case on or about the same day, around Jan 25th.

South Korea immediately took it seriously and focused on testing as many people as possible, as quickly as possible.
Since then they have tested ~300k people and took major steps to 'socially distance'.

From late Jan till early March, America downplayed the whole thing.  The president praised China, lied about how many cases there were, blamed his political opponents for the 'corona hoax' and insisted the whole thing would basically blow over.  America has 5x+ the population of SK and have tested like 30k people total.

South Korea cases are now decreasing daily.  Cases in America are increasing exponentially.

These numbers might be a bit off, but you get the point.

I don't think more testing is the answer to any coronavirus related problem.

There is no cure to coronavirus, so if you test positive, doctors cannot start any kind of treatment for you. Likewise, if your symptoms are not serious, you should not be admitted to a hospital, and the question of if you should be admitted to a hospital does not change depending on if you have tested positive for coronavirus or not. Testing positive for coronavirus also does not change the direction to stay at home and use best practices period, but especially if you have symptoms.

There is also the issue of the F1 score of tests. The F1 score is, in simple terms, how accurate the test is. If the test is accurate 90% of the time, but only 0.5% of the population who is tested actually has coronavirus, the majority of people who test positive will not actually have coronavirus. This is important for two reasons, 1) it will skew the mortality and fatality rate down, which may cause some people to not take precautions against catching coronavirus and 2) it will give everyone a false sense of security that all cases have been identified and these people are in isolation, but 10% of cases would have been missed and it is unknown how long someone can be infected with coronavirus, test negative but still be contagious. Both of these problems could cause the virus to spread faster than it might otherwise.

Testing capacity in the US is increasing, so naturally identified cases will also increase. I don't have sufficient domain knowledge of pandemics to estimate the percentage of cases identified, or the rate the actual number of cases (identified and unidentified) is growing.

I do agree that South Korea has done a good job of keeping cases under control, although I do understand some new clusters are popping up; this may be due to the problems with a lot of testing I described above. I don't think any other countries have approached the problem in a way that resulted in the same success.

Trump was the first to ban travel from China and Iran and did so in January. After Trump closed the border with Europe, nearly every other border in the world was closed or restricted almost overnight.

I'm sure this has been discussed before but Trump's response to the coronavirus has been abysmal and I'm convinced he has shot himself in the foot for his reelection chances. The Trump administration's response to the coronavirus in the ENTIRE month of February was a travel from China and that was it.

What did any other country do, except for China?

Most countries didn’t even ban travel from China. Most countries only monitored the temperature of travelers coming in from certain countries. Most of Europe/the west did not even do that.

Somehow I don't think that pointing fingers at other countries changes Trump's idiotic initial response and the current situation in the U.S. After he finally decided to listen to his advisors, Republicans tried to create the narrative of what a great leader he is, but all he really did was stand aside and let people who actually know what they're talking about do their job. Of course, your average Trumptard thinks Trump can do no wrong, but they have always been in the minority.

It would generally be good advice to let the professionals do their job, and speak to the details as to what is happening.

[Tash]

Netherland is by far the worst.
Some Countries so far without anyone infected Laos, PnG...some African countries
Others like Bangladesh good results 20 infected with population of 160 Million
Data from Worldometer
* Health expenditure of GDP in 2016.  The winner was Monaco with 1.75%

-------------------------	Inf.	Deaths	Rec.	Death/Rec.		*
Romania	308	0	31	0,00		4,98%
Kuwait	159	0	22	0,00		3,90%
Palestine	48	0	17	0,00		0
Vietnam	91	0	17	0,00		5,66%
Belarus	69	0	15	0,00		6,32%
Oman	48	0	13	0,00		4,29%
Qatar	470	0	10	0,00		3,08%
Macao	17	0	10	0,00		4,98%
Finland	450	0	10	0,00		9,49%
Saudi Arabia	344	0	8	0,00		5,74%
Chile	434	0	6	0,00		8,53%
Senegal	47	0	5	0,00		5,51%
Iceland	409	0	5	0,00		8,29%
Czechia	833	0	4	0,00		7,15%
Faeroe Islands	80	0	3	0,00		0
Sri Lanka	73	0	3	0,00		3,89%
Cameroon	27	0	2	0,00		4,69%
BosniaHerzegovina	89	0	2	0,00		9,23%
Malta	64	0	2	0,00		9,30%
Gibraltar	10	0	2	0,00		9,76%
Maldives	13	0	2	0,00		10,61%
Aruba	5	0	1	0,00		0
Ivory Coast	9	0	1	0,00		0
Brunei	78	0	1	0,00		2,34%
Venezuela	65	0	1	0,00		3,22%
Nigeria	12	0	1	0,00		3,65%
Jordan	85	0	1	0,00		5,47%
Colombia	158	0	1	0,00		5,91%
Cambodia	51	0	1	0,00		6,08%
Latvia	111	0	1	0,00		6,24%
Nepal	1	0	1	0,00		6,29%
North Macedonia	76	0	1	0,00		6,34%
Estonia	283	0	1	0,00		6,68%
Georgia	44	0	1	0,00		8,44%
Armenia	136	0	1	0,00		9,93%
Afghanistan	24	0	1	0,00		10,20%
Andorra	75	0	1	0,00		10,37%
Bahrain	298	1	125	0,01		4,87%
Diamond Princess	712	8	567	0,01
Singapore	385	2	131	0,02		4,47%
Thailand	322	1	42	0,02		3,71%
Malaysia	103	3	87	0,03		3,80%
S. Korea	8799	102	2612	0,04		7,34%
Hong Kong	256	4	98	0,04		6,20%
China	81008	3255	71740	0,05		4,98%
UAE	140	2	31	0,06		3,52%
Israel	705	1	15	0,07		7,31%
Taiwan	135	2	28	0,07		6,20%
Russia	253	1	12	0,08		5,27%
Azerbaijan	44	1	7	0,14		6,89%
Australia	1023	7	46	0,15		9,25%
Japan	1007	35	215	0,16		10,93%
Belgium	2257	37	204	0,18		10,04%
Egypt	285	8	42	0,19		4,64%
Croatia	130	1	5	0,20		7,18%
Iran	19644	1433	6745	0,21		8,10%
India	258	5	23	0,22		3,66%
Pakistan	501	3	13	0,23		2,75%
Burkina Faso	40	1	4	0,25		6,75%
France	12612	450	1587	0,28		11,54%
Bangladesh	20	1	3	0,33		2,37%
Algeria	94	11	32	0,34		6,65%
Iraq	208	17	49	0,35		3,31%
Germany	19848	68	180	0,38		11,14%
Poland	425	5	13	0,38		6,52%
Mexico	203	2	4	0,50		5,47%
Jamaica	19	1	2	0,50		6,07%
Serbia	135	1	2	0,50		9,14%
Greece	495	10	19	0,53		8,45%
Hungary	85	4	7	0,57		7,36%
Ireland	683	3	5	0,60		7,38%
Austria	2649	6	9	0,67		10,44%
Spain	21571	1093	1588	0,69		8,97%
Italy	47021	4032	5129	0,79		8,94%
Luxembourg	484	5	6	0,83		6,16%
Canada	1087	12	14	0,86		10,53%
Sweden	1639	16	16	1,00		10,93%
Lebanon	177	4	4	1,00		8,02%
Argentina	158	3	3	1,00		7,55%
Albania	70	2	2	1,00		6,70%
Costa Rica	113	2	2	1,00		7,56%
Lithuania	69	1	1	1,00		6,67%
Tunisia	54	1	1	1,00		6,95%
Panama	200	1	1	1,00		7,26%
Moldova	66	1	1	1,00		8,98%
Portugal	102	6	5	1,20		9,08%
Morocco	86	3	2	1,50		5,84%
Indonesia	369	32	17	1,88		3,12%
USA	19772	279	147	1,90		17,07%
Philippines	230	18	8	2,25		4,39%
Ecuador	426	7	3	2,33		8,39%
UK	3983	177	65	2,72		9,76%
Ukraine	41	3	1	3,00		6,73%
Bulgaria	127	3	1	3,00		8,23%
San Marino	151	14	4	3,50		6,40%
Switzerland	5615	56	15	3,73		12,25%
Peru	263	4	1	4,00		5,14%
Brazil	970	11	2	5,50		11,77%
Norway	1959	7	1	7,00		10,50%
Denmark	1255	9	1	9,00		10,35%
Netherlands	2994	106	2	53,00		10,36%
Cayman Islands	3	1	0,1#	10,00		0
Curaçao	3	1	0,1#	10,00		0
Martinique	32	1	0,1#	10,00		0
Gabon	4	1	0,1#	10,00		3,11%
Guyana	15	1	0,1#	10,00		4,24%
Sudan	2	1	0,1#	10,00		5,66%
Guatemala	12	1	0,1#	10,00		5,82%
Guadeloupe	51	1	0,1#	10,00		5,82%
Slovenia	341	1	0,1#	10,00		8,47%
Cuba	21	1	0,1#	10,00		12,19%
Dominican Rep	72	2	0,1#	20,00		6,16%
Turkey	670	9	0,1#	90,00		4,31%

# Lets give some credit and assume some partially recovered to get past div 0

[OutOfMemory]

"Germany seizes medical supplies headed to Switzerland as Europe scrounges for resources to fight coronavirus"

https://www.rt.com/news/483582-germany--switzerland-medical-supplies-coronavirus/


...

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

While the quoted article is true. Germany has export restriction on masks and 3M Germany tried to ship some trucks full of masks to Switzerland.
Switzerland is not part of the EU, so good luck to them getting masks on the market.

[Cryptotourist]

Switzerland is not part of the EU, so good luck to them getting masks on the market.

LOL, they have all the luck, resources, money they need.

[OutOfMemory]

Switzerland is not part of the EU, so good luck to them getting masks on the market.

LOL, they have all the luck, resources, money they need.

True. But the're generally dependent on imports a lot. They cover about 10% of base food production by farming.

[Ibian]

"Germany seizes medical supplies headed to Switzerland as Europe scrounges for resources to fight coronavirus"

https://www.rt.com/news/483582-germany--switzerland-medical-supplies-coronavirus/


"Chart Of The Week: New COVID-19 Cases Per Day"

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/chart-week-new-covid-19-cases-day


""Critical Incident" - London Hospital Runs Out Of Beds Amid Virus Outbreak"

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/critical-incident-london-hospital-runs-out-beds-amid-virus-outbreak

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

That's just not good enough. Debunk it if you think it's wrong.

[Ibian]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but Trump's response to the coronavirus has been abysmal and I'm convinced he has shot himself in the foot for his reelection chances. The Trump administration's response to the coronavirus in the ENTIRE month of February was a travel from China and that was it. The entirety of the federal government's resources were dedicated to nothing while members of the Trump administration believed a mere travel would stop coronavirus. You fast forward two weeks later and you are facing exponential growth of the virus with the entire U.S. economy at virtual standstill. The U.S. can't even properly test people that show symptoms of coronavirus with people having fevers/coughs being turned away from tests at emergency rooms.

Trump's only pitch at reelection was the economy and the U.S. is going to face a 20 percent unemployment rate. The U.S. is at the worst economic recession since the Great Depression and Trump is partly to blame. You cannot isolate millions of people and expect the economy to recover. Even after coronavirus settles down, the effect of the economy is going to last for years and the unemployment rate isn't going to go down until at least a year after the virus subsides. 

The Chinese are Entirely to blame. China delenda est.

[o_e_l_e_o]

There is no cure to coronavirus, so if you test positive, doctors cannot start any kind of treatment for you. Likewise, if your symptoms are not serious, you should not be admitted to a hospital, and the question of if you should be admitted to a hospital does not change depending on if you have tested positive for coronavirus or not. Testing positive for coronavirus also does not change the direction to stay at home and use best practices period, but especially if you have symptoms.

The caveat to this is for healthcare staff and other people who are still required to work during this. If we can get accurate negative tests on these individuals, it means they can get back to work sooner rather than having to self isolate for 7-14 days (depending on their jurisdiction).

There is also the issue of the F1 score of tests.

In medical literature, you will rarely see the full F-score being discussed. They almost always talk about the sensitivity and specificity instead, and occasionally the positive and negative predictive values. Most of the tests we currently have for SARS-CoV-2 are highly specific, but not particularly sensitive. This essentially means if you test positive then you almost certainly have it, but testing negative doesn't necessarily mean you don't have it.

[Tash]

Some work from home fun

[TECSHARE]

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

TwittySeal is the human equivalent of the little banner Youtube puts under videos covering any information of consequence to make one last desperate plea to eat the corporate mainstream media's shit some more.

He has trouble with anyone who has opinions that don't align with his own speaking. Only sources about the Cornonavirus approved by him are allowed, otherwise he will put a disclaimer under every single post. He is doing his part. Volunteering at hospitals? No, sitting on his ass following people around on the internet wagging his finger digitally.

[tvbcof]

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

TwittySeal is the human equivalent of the little banner Youtube puts under videos covering any information of consequence to make one last desperate plea to eat the corporate mainstream media's shit some more.

He has trouble with anyone who has opinions that don't align with his own speaking. Only sources about the Cornonavirus approved by him are allowed, otherwise he will put a disclaimer under every single post. He is doing his part. Volunteering at hospitals? No, sitting on his ass following people around on the internet wagging his finger digitally.

Man, you totally nailed it!

I think I read somewhere that it was discovered that the short-lived campaign of using 'trusted' truth entities (Snopes, the ADL, etc) for the flagging made it MORE likely that most people would believe a flagged story.  That would explain the short-lived nature of the experiment.

These people are well funded though.  It's not like they would curl up and go away.  The latest trial balloon is that the internet NEEDS to have ALL content checked by AI algorithms and/or certified humans before it can go from the keyboard to anyone else's screen.  This to eliminate the scourge of antisemitism.  The real-time nature of the internet was definitely a bug, and one which a lot of people are hard at work on trying to fix.

[psycodad]

"Germany seizes medical supplies headed to Switzerland as Europe scrounges for resources to fight coronavirus"

https://www.rt.com/news/483582-germany--switzerland-medical-supplies-coronavirus/


...

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

While the quoted article is true. Germany has export restriction on masks and 3M Germany tried to ship some trucks full of masks to Switzerland.
Switzerland is not part of the EU, so good luck to them getting masks on the market.

Actually Germany also blocked several shipments from China to Switzerland in Hamburg based on their new restrictions. Not much to do with this EU free market fuckery, just stealing things basically. But for completeness sake: These shipments are said to be released meanwhile. But the unfriendly act of Germany has not been received too well in Switzerland, that could easily backfire later.

But it is heartwarming to watch from outside how solidary all the EU helps Italy in these times..

[OutOfMemory]

"Germany seizes medical supplies headed to Switzerland as Europe scrounges for resources to fight coronavirus"

https://www.rt.com/news/483582-germany--switzerland-medical-supplies-coronavirus/


...

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

While the quoted article is true. Germany has export restriction on masks and 3M Germany tried to ship some trucks full of masks to Switzerland.
Switzerland is not part of the EU, so good luck to them getting masks on the market.

Actually Germany also blocked several shipments from China to Switzerland in Hamburg based on their new restrictions. Not much to do with this EU free market fuckery, just stealing things basically. But for completeness sake: These shipments are said to be released meanwhile. But the unfriendly act of Germany has not been received too well in Switzerland, that could easily backfire later.

But it is heartwarming to watch from outside how solidary all the EU helps Italy in these times..

Agree. This is what the EU was founded for in the first place. But some members think they are more important than others, based on membership time and economy figures.
This is deadly for any alliance, but we'll see how the EU holds up while being put through the current challenges in the future. Already weakened by the immigration issues of the last decade, the EU may fail even more because of Covid19.

[psycodad]

"Germany seizes medical supplies headed to Switzerland as Europe scrounges for resources to fight coronavirus"

https://www.rt.com/news/483582-germany--switzerland-medical-supplies-coronavirus/


...

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

While the quoted article is true. Germany has export restriction on masks and 3M Germany tried to ship some trucks full of masks to Switzerland.
Switzerland is not part of the EU, so good luck to them getting masks on the market.

Actually Germany also blocked several shipments from China to Switzerland in Hamburg based on their new restrictions. Not much to do with this EU free market fuckery, just stealing things basically. But for completeness sake: These shipments are said to be released meanwhile. But the unfriendly act of Germany has not been received too well in Switzerland, that could easily backfire later.

But it is heartwarming to watch from outside how solidary all the EU helps Italy in these times..

Agree. This is what the EU was founded for in the first place. But some members think they are more important than others, based on membership time and economy figures.
This is deadly for any alliance, but we'll see how the EU holds up while being put through the current challenges in the future. Already weakened by the immigration issues of the last decade, the EU may fail even more because of Covid19.

I believe to remember vaguely that the Montan Union was basically initiated by the French to keep a close watch over the naughty Germans.
Keeping that in mind, I have an impression that this project somehow got a bit out of control.

[TECSHARE]

TwitchySeal is exactly right. ZeroHedge thrives off churning out factless clickbait for conspiratard incels like yourself, and RT is funded by the Russian government.

No argument against the contents? Attack the source. That way you never have to attempt to debate the facts of the matter and can remain totally ignorant while comforted in the belief in your righteousness.

[tvbcof]

TwitchySeal is exactly right. ZeroHedge thrives off churning out factless clickbait for conspiratard incels like yourself, and RT is funded by the Russian government.

No argument against the contents? Attack the source. That way you never have to attempt to debate the facts of the matter and can remain totally ignorant while comforted in the belief in your righteousness.

I was blown away that anyone could be negative about an investigative report which showed a current job posting for a bio-engineer with experience genetically modifying bat coronavirus and put a link to the posting on the original web site.

Obviously the idea of what reporting is all about has shifted 180 degrees since I was in high school.

[TECSHARE]

While I agree it was likely a bio-weapon, and that study seems to make some very strangely worded conclusions for a scientific paper giving me the distinct impression it serves more political purposes than scientific ones. Even if the article is totally accurate, this is only something that excludes genetic engineering, not an accelerated forced mutation process done by raising many generations of the virus in a targeted environment. This would essentially be mostly indistinguishable from natural evolution.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you don't know more about this issue than the authors of this article, who work for the largest non-profit biomedical research organization in the United States.

An "accelerated forced mutation process"? Because you have no idea how little you understand about the issue, you will have no way of understanding why you are so incredibly wrong.

"This would essentially be mostly indistinguishable from natural evolution."

 

First of all, there's an entire section of the article called "Evidence for natural evolution".

"These two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2"

"They conclude that the virus is the product of natural evolution,"

"Accelerated forced mutation" is NOT the same thing as "natural evolution."

They're not saying "similar to natural evolution," they're saying it is natural evolution. But because you are so very very smart you know better than the people whose jobs it is to study the topic day and night, right?

They studied the issue. You did not. That is why I support their conclusion:

In one scenario, the virus evolved to its current pathogenic state through natural selection in a non-human host and then jumped to humans. This is how previous coronavirus outbreaks have emerged, with humans contracting the virus after direct exposure to civets (SARS) and camels (MERS)...

In the other proposed scenario, a non-pathogenic version of the virus jumped from an animal host into humans and then evolved to its current pathogenic state within the human population. For instance, some coronaviruses from pangolins, armadillo-like mammals found in Asia and Africa, have an RBD structure very similar to that of SARS-CoV-2...

over yours:

likely a bio-weapon

1,000x, every day of the week.

Oh, but let me guess, they are just political pawns used to facilitate a cover-up. And meanwhile you're completely unbiased and just presenting facts as you see them. Right.

Huh. Look what we have here: https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/03/19/china-owns-nature-magazines-ass-debunking-the-proximal-origin-of-sars-cov-2-claiming-covid-19-wasnt-from-a-lab/

Sounds a lot like what I was saying already.

"As our report mentions right at the start, scientists passed the H5N1 Bird Flu through a series of ferret hosts until it gained ACE2 affinity and then became incredibly virulent, which is what’s seen with COVID-19 since its affinity to ACE2 is orders of magnitude higher than SARS. That process would leave a genome that appears “natural” and not purposeful as well since it wouldn’t leave a genomic smoking gun and would simply appear to be the result of “natural” selection. However the addition of artificial generations produced by this process of passing through ferrets in the lab would create a lot of genetic distance from any possible relatives – precisely what is seen in COVID-19: it forms its own clade and appears very distant from all other bat coronaviruses. So this is lazy research, they’re either unaware of the Bird Flu study or are willfully ignoring it."

[gudayuzazo]

I think it will probably get worse before it gets better,but thank good will get better

[rdbase]

Amazon workers have been tested positive with the corona virus.
So they were spreading it by handling those packages?
Something Cnbc just released 45 minutes ago about how they are changing their operations in the wake of this pandemic outbreak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW4B7s2ZdBg
Careful with you mail because thy are not testing their own employees in time.
I think trump administration should of had the priority on these workforce that are in potential contact with a large range of people.
They have said the covid-19 virus can live on cardboard surfaces up to 24 hours. Something that was mentioned on Dr.oz the last time I tuned in for a brief time while waiting for something to show up on netflix.

I think it will probably get worse before it gets better,but thank good will get better

True. Some are showing thieves who are looting already in the SF bay area at a walgreens for meds.
https://twitter.com/Jared_William/status/1240741535357911040

[OutOfMemory]

I believe to remember vaguely that the Montan Union was basically initiated by the French to keep a close watch over the naughty Germans.
Keeping that in mind, I have an impression that this project somehow got a bit out of control.

Indeed. Mixing so many different cultures with at least half a dozen of different political histories, while trying to implement equal measures that cover mainly economic aspects was expected to fail. It's just a matter of time, or a matter of severity of the problem(s) the union will have to face. Similiar to the problems of globalization, only at a lower scale, imho.

Covid:
While the growth rate of infected cases in my country slowed down a little over the last days, people are getting confident that curfew will end in two or three weeks.
But it was sunny and warm outside, and the weather is changing now. Clouds, snowfall, low temperatures. Makes SARS-CoV-2 easier to spread. Today they tested the first case in my district to be positive, a small company where the guy worked was quarantined, but three of his collegues were not at home when the testing staff showed up at their door.
I also saw a lot of cars of people i know, parked in front of houses away from their homes. On the positive side, i found out that going fishing is allowed while you're alone and keep a distance to other anglers. I will be cleaning and servicing my rods and equipment tomorrow