Coronavirus Outbreak

[sirazimuth]

I would be very careful taking either zerohedge or rt.com seriously.

zerohedge is a conspiracy theory/pseudo science blog and rt is Russian propaganda.

TwittySeal is the human equivalent of the little banner Youtube puts under videos covering any information of consequence to make one last desperate plea to eat the corporate mainstream media's shit some more.

He has trouble with anyone who has opinions that don't align with his own speaking. Only sources about the Cornonavirus approved by him are allowed, otherwise he will put a disclaimer under every single post. He is doing his part. Volunteering at hospitals? No, sitting on his ass following people around on the internet wagging his finger digitally.

Yeah roger that techy...as if you don't ever have a problem with anyone who has opinions that don't align with your own. Phukking hypocrite.


Here's an idea dude, why not try posting your rebuttal without being an obnoxious richard head? I dont think I've ever seen you do that.
Not sure if you enjoy or just don't care about being an arrogant prick on these boards, but you sure are good at it.
Apologies for replying to off topic with off topic.

The corona virus sucks.

[franky1]

more hilarious moments on the BBC
.. so folks. you go to the news and hope to get the real facts.. and then they play a hidden game called
'red or white caption, which is true?'

[TECSHARE]

Sounds like you went out of your way to confirm your own bias. Unsurprisingly, you picked a completely bullshit-ridden article to do so.

A problem you have is that you always take statements like these at face value, so long as they back whatever conspiracy you are currently frothing over:

China bought off the head of Harvard’s chemistry department, you don’t think they could buy off run-of-the-mill research scientists scrambling for tenure and funding and publication?

Really? This statement is pure paranoid speculation. Its retard juice.

As our report mentions right at the start, scientists passed the H5N1 Bird Flu through a series of ferret hosts until it gained ACE2 affinity and then became incredibly virulent

That's not what happened! JFC. From the abstract cited in your article:

...We genetically modified A/H5N1 virus by site-directed mutagenesis and subsequent serial passage in ferrets. The genetically modified A/H5N1 virus acquired mutations during passage in ferrets, ultimately becoming airborne transmissible in ferrets.

"Site-directed mutagenesis" is NOT a natural process. Convenient how they left that tidbit out.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with covid-19. It is again pure speculation to be slurped down by conspiratards. Just because something _could_ happen, doesn't mean it _did_ happen. You always focus on "could" and never on "did."

This efficient solution is exactly the kind of thing that would be selected for after passage through ferrets in lab, which was already done to the Bird Flu that created a horrifically virulent strain.

"Would be" selected for -- not "was." Again, pure, baseless speculation.

Here, only one variant was found in all the initial infected humans, instead of the multiple variants that would be expected. But does fit what would happen if a virus that already had high affinity to the ACE2 receptor, which is the same in human and ferrets, leaked out of a lab.

This is plain incorrect. Here's a representation of all of the variants of covid-19:

[img  width=500]https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Takahiko_Koyama/publication/339461351/figure/fig3/AS:865732212572168@1583418052931/A-graphical-representation-of-variants-found-in-COVID-19-genomes-Variants-are-colored.png[/img]

There is zero evidence to back any of these statements up, but the author tells you what you want to hear and throws just enough scientific terms around to make it sound like they know what they're talking about, so you just assume they are truthful.

Its laughable to think this article takes down shit. I read the whole thing and it is too riddled with ridiculous assumptions, baseless claims and pseudoscientific bullshit to bother dissecting it any more than I already have. Sure, some anonymous dipshits with a blog know more about this issue than scientists with combined hundreds of years of experience working in this exact field, because those dipshits are telling you what you want to hear.

Get real.

My guess is that in 2 or 3 months this whole affair will be over with, fading into distant memory, but you will have somehow created enough plausible deniability in your own mind that covid-19 was STILL a "bio-weapon," even if a piss poor one at that, never having produced a shred of evidence to back your claim. Par for the course for just about every other ridiculous conspiratard turd you've ever laid in this section of the forum.

Here's the one part of your article I actually agree with:

"Maybe you shouldn’t blindly believe everything you read?"

It is a fact, purposely infecting test animals and selecting for the most virulent mutations would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from natural mutation, because it is nothing more than accelerating a natural process and selecting for desirable traits. There is no evidence that this has been excluded as a possibility, and any claims otherwise are assumptions, not based on observable empirical data.

Yeah roger that techy...as if you don't ever have a problem with anyone who has opinions that don't align with your own. Phukking hypocrite.


Here's an idea dude, why not try posting your rebuttal without being an obnoxious richard head? I dont think I've ever seen you do that.
Not sure if you enjoy or just don't care about being an arrogant prick on these boards, but you sure are good at it.
Apologies for replying to off topic with off topic.

The corona virus sucks.

If I disagree with some one's views, I debate the topic with them. I don't follow them around like a human version of Snopes and attack every source they link as invalid while never addressing the contents. I am perfectly capable of posting a logic based rebuttal while also being an obnoxious prick, thank you very much.

[tvbcof]

It is a fact, purposely infecting test animals and selecting for the most virulent mutations would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from natural mutation, because it is nothing more than accelerating a natural process and selecting for desirable traits. There is no evidence that this has been excluded as a possibility, and any claims otherwise are assumptions, not based on observable empirical data.

That is exactly the method which has been used for over 100 years.  That is one of the reasons that most biological warfare labs call themselves things like 'animal disease research centers', and why they maintain large groups of animals.

Covid-19 is often over-hyped in the lethality feature, but it actually does seem to have a more valid, interesting, and unusual collection of features which are eye-opening and help is spread world-wide.  r0, incubation time, durability to remain active on surfaces, etc. We can limit the possibilities for the existence of 'SARS-cov-2' to two choices for the purposes of rational analysis here:

 - by-chance hop from a bat pool to another species (pangolin, snake, whatever) and from thence to humans.

 - artificial selection and refining in a research facility.

It is a known fact that there are research facilities doing these kinds of projects and using bat derived coronavirus.  And it is simply beyond doubt creating millions and millions of opportunities for 'gain of function' mutations to pop up (probably under various deliberately mutagenic conditions) and deliberate selection will arrive at a solution more quickly than the alternate.  The alternate being a very finite number of opportunities for a species jump to happen and for just the right individual pangolin to be captured and harvested for sale to humans while a number of very 'useful' mutations are happening along the way.

Given the above observations, which are simply not very contentious, it is perfect rational to consider the more likely scenerio as, well, more likely.  I would say more likely by many orders of magnitude, but that's getting into being a judgement thing.

One thing it is NOT is 'crazy' to consider the possibility that SARS-cov-2 came from something other than bat soup.  If anything, someone who cannot bring themselves to consider the possibility of lab or facility creation has got a problem related to intellectual conditioning by various corp/gov apparatuses.

[CannCo]

Take your mind off from discussions about the situation in which we're all involved.
While everything is trying to get back to normal, someone can help you to get through the hard times.
Hive OS crates ways of How to Save Money in Crisis.

[suchmoon]

'red or white caption, which is true?'

It's poorly worded but both can be technically true. Supermarkets stock their shelves as usual and perhaps more than usual, it's just that people buy A LOT more mainly due to being unmitigated lemmings, not because there is an actual shortage of most products, particularly food - we didn't start eating more, did we?

Stuff like hand sanitizer might have real shortages due to obviously increased consumption but that's not "food".

[tvbcof]

How could it be useful to confine a large percentage of people to their homes.  Especially middle-age and older persons who are responsible and unlikely to break curfew and go out partying?  The official reason is to slow the spread of SARS-cov-2 infection and 'flatten the curve' to use talking point jargon.  But could there be other reasons?

I just heard a story about postal workers being assembled to have a special briefing.  In this briefing the workers where specifically instructed to report on anyone who refused to accept their mail.  That is interesting.

Because people are conditioned not to think about it, most people don't consider how the loans to the U.S. by the privately held central bank work.  When they do, they usually assume that the 'collateral' for these loans (of 'money' created out of thin air) is 'tax claims on future generations.'

I personally have always kind of doubted that the 'collateral' on the issued debt is quite so nebulous.  I've for a while suspected that the collateral is claims on various value in the nation itself.  National forests, monuments, mineral reserves, and what not.  For the last half decade I have wondered if it is possible that it is also what most land owners think it 'privately held' land titles as well.

What if people are about to be served legal notices that, due to this covid-19 emergency which requires all of our collective actions and sacrifices to manage, the title of lands are going to need to be 'modernized'.

[tvbcof]

It is a fact, purposely infecting test animals and selecting for the most virulent mutations would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from natural mutation, because it is nothing more than accelerating a natural process and selecting for desirable traits.

From the abstract cited in your article:

...We genetically modified A/H5N1 virus by site-directed mutagenesis and subsequent serial passage in ferrets. The genetically modified A/H5N1 virus acquired mutations during passage in ferrets, ultimately becoming airborne transmissible in ferrets.

"Site-directed mutagenesis" is NOT a natural process. Convenient how they left that tidbit out.

https://international.neb.com/applications/cloning-and-synthetic-biology/site-directed-mutagenesis

SDM is an in vitro procedure that uses custom designed oligonucleotide primers to confer a desired mutation in a double-stranded DNA plasmid.

Logical fallacy alert:

 - oligonucleotied primers is a method of inducing mutagensis

 - no sign of oligonucleotide primers

 - therefore, no mutagensis

There is no evidence that this has been excluded as a possibility, and any claims otherwise are assumptions, not based on observable empirical data.

You really don't understand concepts of proof and evidence. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the virus was created in a lab. It's not anybody's job to prove that its not. Just flinging improbabilities out there and then saying they are likely is nothing but you propelling baseless conspiracy theories.

If thing A is in common use and is a million times more probable than thing B, the burden is kind of on thing B to prove that that is what happened.

That is especially the case when thing B is actively and strenuously promoted by groups associated with thing A should thing A be what actually happened.

[nutildah]

It is a fact, purposely infecting test animals and selecting for the most virulent mutations would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from natural mutation, because it is nothing more than accelerating a natural process and selecting for desirable traits.

From the abstract cited in your article:

...We genetically modified A/H5N1 virus by site-directed mutagenesis and subsequent serial passage in ferrets. The genetically modified A/H5N1 virus acquired mutations during passage in ferrets, ultimately becoming airborne transmissible in ferrets.

"Site-directed mutagenesis" is NOT a natural process. Convenient how they left that tidbit out.

https://international.neb.com/applications/cloning-and-synthetic-biology/site-directed-mutagenesis

SDM is an in vitro procedure that uses custom designed oligonucleotide primers to confer a desired mutation in a double-stranded DNA plasmid.

Logical fallacy alert:

 - oligonucleotied primers is a method of inducing mutagensis

 - no sign of oligonucleotide primers

 - therefore, no mutagensis

There is no evidence that this has been excluded as a possibility, and any claims otherwise are assumptions, not based on observable empirical data.

You really don't understand concepts of proof and evidence. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the virus was created in a lab. It's not anybody's job to prove that its not. Just flinging improbabilities out there and then saying they are likely is nothing but you propelling baseless conspiracy theories.

If thing A is in common use and is a million times more probable than thing B, the burden is kind of on thing B to prove that that is what happened.

That is especially the case when thing B is actively and strenuously promoted by groups associated with thing A should thing A be what actually happened.

You just aren't paying attention. TS's article referenced that study as "proof" that an airborne transmissable virus can be created in a lab without using genetic engineering. Meanwhile the study DID use genetic engineering -- that part was just left out of the article.

The other part of what you said makes no sense at all. You continue to inject pseudoscience and pseudologic into the debate, complicating things for no rational reason. Which is why I'm putting you back on ignore.

[tvbcof]

You just aren't paying attention. TS's article referenced that study as "proof" that an airborne transmissable virus can be created in a lab without using genetic engineering. Meanwhile the study DID use genetic engineering -- that part was just left out of the article.

Wrong again Bob.

If you can point that out in TS's material please do, but in fact you used a very simple logical fallicy to assert that a study 'proved' no mutagenesis.  That failure is as clear as a bell.

The other part of what you said makes no sense at all. You continue to inject pseudoscience and pseudologic into the debate, complicating things for no rational reason. Which is why I'm putting you back on ignore.

There is no 'pseudoscience' about people using natural selection to achieve a desired goal be it a bigger potato or a more useful pathogen.

Someone who simply cannot accept the idea that this could have been part of what happened to make covid-19 what it is is very ill prepared to employ any analysis on the subject at all.  That would be you.

[Lauda]

A bit disappointing that so many Bitcoiners fall for random pseudo-science conspiracy bullshit. Just remember when the next time you tell somebody that they are a sheep for not using Bitcoin or hating banks, look in the mirror first. 

[tvbcof]

A bit disappointing that so many Bitcoiners fall for random pseudo-science conspiracy bullshit. Just remember when the next time you tell somebody that they are a sheep for not using Bitcoin or hating banks, look in the mirror first. 

I find it hard to believe that people who were such 'paranoid conspiracy theorist' that they would use Bitcoin in the first place are so in love with Big Brother that they eat up every mainstream narative with basically zero meaningful evidence Him most of the time.  On top of that, anyone who questions the mainstream narative is automatically some sort of a traitor to their country or whatever.

To be fair, most of the participants on this form are not really early adopters and there are few old-timers around any more so maybe I should expect a different mindset.  Whatever the case it is good information to know that what qualifies as a Bitcoin enthusiast today is very likely to be totally subservient to the corp/gov mainstream and should not be relied upon to provide any meaningful resistance at all as we are rolled into the new technocratic economic model and societal frameworks.

Of course this forum does have a contingent of people who are here because they hate and feel threatened by Bitcoin and seek to damage it.  Others are monitoring it to understand and exploit the weakness of the system (and the community who uses it.)  I can only imagine how delighted they are to see so many highly conditioned boot-lickers who would seemingly fight to the death for the honor of the likes of Bill Gates and Merck.

[Ibian]

pseudo-science

Lot of people using this word lately. I think they can be safely ignored. It's just a way to dismiss anything you don't like.

[franky1]

How could it be useful to confine a large percentage of people to their homes.  Especially middle-age and older persons who are responsible and unlikely to break curfew and go out partying?  The official reason is to slow the spread of SARS-cov-2 infection and 'flatten the curve' to use talking point jargon.  But could there be other reasons?

I just heard a story about postal workers being assembled to have a special briefing.  In this briefing the workers where specifically instructed to report on anyone who refused to accept their mail.  That is interesting.

1. simple reason to flatten the curve is because there are not enough intensive care beds to have everyone get it at the same time.
take wuhan stats and use it against for instance UK numbers
W: 11m pop.. ~100k infected ~ couple thousand died (could have been worse if they didnt build hospitals)
UK 65m pop.. so 650k infected and predict that 40,000 could die
the UK only has enough ventilators/intensive care beds and respiratory trained medical staff for ~8000. so the UK wants to see ~5 curves of demand rather than 1 mountain

2. postal/mail people dont actually knock on peoples doors to hand the mail across.. instead there is this little thing called a mail box. yea its a new invention (only been around for over a century, so you might not have known about it)
 yep your spouting fiction that postmen are demanding to come into contact with mail recipients and demanding to report it if mail recipients decline such contact.

seriously. stop spreading myths
as for the financial stuff.. yes we would have gone into a financial crises even without corona. due to the pensions deficit from the 'boombers'.. but that does not mean when a new separate crisis appears that it must be some plot to hide a first crisis

[tvbcof]

...
2. postal/mail people dont actually knock on peoples doors to hand the mail across.. instead there is this little thing called a mail box. yea its a new invention (only been around for over a century, so you might not have known about it)
 yep your spouting fiction that postmen are demanding to come into contact with mail recipients and demanding to report it if mail recipients decline such contact.
...

You probably don't have much experience with business stuff, but there is this little thing called 'return receipt' which is used for important legal papers and notifications.  It serves as legal proof that the recipient actually got a piece of mail.  Look it up.

[franky1]

...
2. postal/mail people dont actually knock on peoples doors to hand the mail across.. instead there is this little thing called a mail box. yea its a new invention (only been around for over a century, so you might not have known about it)
 yep your spouting fiction that postmen are demanding to come into contact with mail recipients and demanding to report it if mail recipients decline such contact.
...

You probably don't have much experience with business stuff, but there is this little thing called 'return receipt' which is used for important legal papers and notifications.  It serves as legal proof that the recipient actually got a piece of mail.  Look it up.

maybe you need to take a few lessons into how the real world works
your turning how a standard process that has standard policies for how to handle packages where the recipient is not available to sign. and blowing it all up into a thing to sound like some marshal law reporting surveilance thing requiring military intervention to force a person to accept a package.

here is some real world info
delivery companies can put the item on the doorstep. knock on the door  and take a couple steps back. and if there is an answer. mark it as received
they can also put a note saying 'sorry your not home' please call this number to rearrange a later delivery'

so chill out with the myths that those who refuse get 'reported'

again the mail system has been around for over a century. they dont need special briefings about new ways to handle post that needs to be signed for.

as for important legal documents. thats not the usual 'mail' company. thats more so special court assigned servers. who go around saying 'you been served' and then take a picture of it on their smart phones.
after all if you wanted to get out of court by pretending you did not get served. you would refuse to sign any crappy piece of paper. so guess what. they know people refuse to sign. so they dont require it. instead they use other means of proof. or trust of the delivery guy to just do his job

[tvbcof]

...
2. postal/mail people dont actually knock on peoples doors to hand the mail across.. instead there is this little thing called a mail box. yea its a new invention (only been around for over a century, so you might not have known about it)
 yep your spouting fiction that postmen are demanding to come into contact with mail recipients and demanding to report it if mail recipients decline such contact.
...

You probably don't have much experience with business stuff, but there is this little thing called 'return receipt' which is used for important legal papers and notifications.  It serves as legal proof that the recipient actually got a piece of mail.  Look it up.

maybe you need to take a few lessons into how the real world works
your turning how a standard process that has standard policies for how to handle packages where the recipient is not available to sign. and blowing it all up into a thing to sound like some marshal law reporting surveilance thing requiring military intervention to force a person to accept a package.

here is some real world info
delivery companies can put the item on the doorstep. knock on the door  and take a couple steps back. and if there is an answer. mark it as received
they can also put a note saying 'sorry your not home' please call this number to rearrange a later delivery'

so chill out with the myths that those who refuse get 'reported'

again the mail system has been around for over a century. they dont need special briefings about new ways to handle post that needs to be signed for.

as for important legal documents. thats not the usual 'mail' company. thats more so special court assigned servers. who go around saying 'you been served' and then take a picture of it on their smart phones.
after all if you wanted to get out of court by pretending you did not get served. you would refuse to sign any crappy piece of paper. so guess what. they know people refuse to sign. so they dont require it. instead they use other means of proof. or trust of the delivery guy to just do his job

I suggested 'look it up'.  Not guesstimate about things which you don't know.  Unless you want to continue to look like a jack-ass of course.

Here, I'll even throw you a bone although I doubt that you are now or ever will be in a position to actually own property and what-not.

[Tash]

Coronavirus, rich peoples virus

Country	Cases	Population			Cases/Pop*100000
Uganda	1	45 334 285			0,002
Nepal	1	28 988 637			0,003
Niger	1	23 949 028			0,004
Sudan	2	43 556 486			0,005
Angola	2	32 569 008			0,006
Chad	1	16 289 528			0,006
Somalia	1	15 765 184			0,006
Ethiopia	9	114 146 786			0,008
Bangladesh	24	164 233 230			0,015
Nigeria	22	204 674 060			0,011
.
.
Norway	2219	5 409 509			41,020
Monaco	18	39 165			45,959
Spain	28572	46 749 843			61,117
Switzerland	6863	8 637 124			79,459
Italy	53578	60 485 957			88,579
Liechtenstein	37	38 098			97,118
Luxembourg	670	623 109			107,525
Andorra	88	77 231			113,944
Vatican City	1	800			125,000
Iceland	568	340 632			166,749
San Marino	160	33 911			471,823

In Brazil, importers of the virus include several social media influencers and members of a government delegation that met with President Trump on March 7 at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida.
Several of Mexico’s most prominent business leaders — including a banking executive, the chairman of Mexico’s stock exchange and the chief executive of the company that makes Jose Cuervo tequila — tested positive for the virus after traveling to Vail, a ski resort west of Denver.
In Panama, where 137 people have tested positive, those infected include people who had recently traveled to Italy, France or New York.

[Lauda]

pseudo-science

Lot of people using this word lately. I think they can be safely ignored. It's just a way to dismiss anything you don't like.

If you do not know what pseudo-science is, then I am not surprised by anything. What is next, reptilians ordered Bill Gates to create the virus?   Alex Jones got nothing on you folk.

On top of that, anyone who questions the mainstream narative is automatically some sort of a traitor to their country or whatever.

Gun laws anyone?

To be fair, most of the participants on this form are not really early adopters and there are few old-timers around any more so maybe I should expect a different mindset.  Whatever the case it is good information to know that what qualifies as a Bitcoin enthusiast today is very likely to be totally subservient to the corp/gov mainstream and should not be relied upon to provide any meaningful resistance at all as we are rolled into the new technocratic economic model and societal frameworks.

They are not. They are just sad displays of failed individuals, now grasping for attention with nonsense.

[Cryptotourist]

They are not. They are just sad displays of failed individuals, now grasping for attention with nonsense.

I think I can relate to that.
But please don't be so harsh, I'm still trying for the best.