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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1348773 times)
portice
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July 15, 2014, 05:16:51 AM
 #9421

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

Finally, someone who gets it.
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CodeHunter
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July 15, 2014, 05:25:42 AM
 #9422

VeriSend (privacy but you have to trust us hahaha since it's centeralized.. perfect example right there. So what if a government by way of coercion takes over that service?


if the government gets involved...

Fippy:
"Actually, as someone who has a long standing background in the financial world and has personally worked extensively with FinCEN, Vericoin's features in that regard are under very low risk. What is at very high risk of catching unwanted attention is the recent batch of alts that have anonymity woven into them.
By centralizing certain aspects of Verisend, they technically have the ability to comply with US Federal regulations. Coins that have built in decentralized anonymity quite literally have a target painted on their collective asses, and will be the first hammered into the dirt by the Feds should they ever start looking in that general direction."

socal
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July 15, 2014, 05:25:54 AM
 #9423

good god these idiot fud spewers are still here basically saying that fucking over the hacker and saving VRC was the wrong choice my only questions for you morons spewing this nonsense are:

1. how much is the hacker paying you to fud

2. how many of you are scammers/hackers

and 3. If you are not invested in VRC, then why the fuck are you here spewing your BS? nobody cares what bullshit lies and idiocy you have to spread so go back to whatever shitcoin you came from and let the REAL men do the work of advancing crypto


P.s. Don't bother replying because all of you fucking morons are now Ignored, have a nice day


EDIT:

LOL Ignoring all of the retarded, lying, scamming, fudding, (add unsavory adjective here) morons just muted most of the thread lololololol glad to see that these idiots are so scared of us succeeding and innovating and trailblazing ways to counteract their scams, all while having one of THE best altcoins out there, that they have to come here to try and drag us down. TOO BAD IT WONT WORK ( looking at YOU smoothie, IconicExpert, bobsurplus, neuroit, portice, Alphi, and all you other sockpuppet retards)
BitcoinPorn
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July 15, 2014, 05:27:37 AM
 #9424

Mintpal drop the ball, bottom line, it should be on them to fix it or compensate.

There was no ability for or from them to fix the issue or compensate.  With one user holding the amount of VRC that they stole, they had the ability to destroy the coin overall.   Mintpal dropped the ball, however without them in control of the ball, the coin had to be reverted back to a state where one user was no longer controlling that much VRC.

At this point I am hoping the lesson users will learn with some PoS based coins, is not to leave them in exchanges, or at least spread them out, as no one exchange should have that many coin, especially not in cold storage.

Mintpal was not in a position to do anything except alert the Vericoin devs that they done fucked up and basically allowed the ability for someone to destroy a coin, the devs at this early in Vericoin's life, had the ability to fix this issue by creating a new chain for users to continue on.


Issues like this and the ability to fork the chain happened with Bitcoin as well, it was early enough on in BTC's life where people could do something about this, and even luckier they did not have to do a rollback ( see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6290.0 )

ozboy2014
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July 15, 2014, 05:29:05 AM
 #9425

good god these idiot fud spewers are still here basically saying that fucking over the hacker and saving VRC was the wrong choice my only questions for you morons spewing this nonsense are:

1. how much is the hacker paying you to fud

2. how many of you are scammers/hackers

and 3. If you are not invested in VRC, then why the fuck are you here spewing your BS? nobody cares what bullshit lies and idiocy you have to spread so go back to whatever shitcoin you came from and let the REAL men do the work of advancing crypto


P.s. Don't bother replying because all of you fucking morons are now Ignored, have a nice day

+100000.. I think that's enough zeros..Smiley
CodeHunter
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July 15, 2014, 05:31:44 AM
 #9426

good god these idiot fud spewers are still here basically saying that fucking over the hacker and saving VRC was the wrong choice my only questions for you morons spewing this nonsense are:

1. how much is the hacker paying you to fud

2. how many of you are scammers/hackers

and 3. If you are not invested in VRC, then why the fuck are you here spewing your BS? nobody cares what bullshit lies and idiocy you have to spread so go back to whatever shitcoin you came from and let the REAL men do the work of advancing crypto


P.s. Don't bother replying because all of you fucking morons are now Ignored, have a nice day


And Vericoin has a market cap of only $6,352,040 yet they're acting like Vericoin is the biggest playa in town and a threat to all other alts.

These fudsters make VRC look like the most interesting upstart since Bitcoin itself which was so hated when it started.

Bobsurplus
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July 15, 2014, 05:32:23 AM
 #9427

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

that being said,
when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either.


Extremely well put. I think your approach to the matter is way better then mine! :p
noerc
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July 15, 2014, 05:32:32 AM
 #9428

Wow, Patrick, you really did it. You did a rollback of the blockchain and wrote history with it. Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal. You even were offered support for fixing the issue in a reasonable way, but still you used your honorable achieved credibility to break a fundamental rule. Its a sad day in crypto, especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

This move will never be forgotten. To the community, if you all trust a single dev so much, here is the perfect solution for you: Fork again and increase the supply such that pnosker owns 50% of all coins which he should never spend on anything and only use for staking. You will be save, forever! Have a good life.
BitcoinPorn
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July 15, 2014, 05:34:05 AM
 #9429

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.
that being said,
when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Exactly, there was no choice but to do the rollback.  I'm glad we all agree on this.  I think we also all agree that centralized exchanges are bad.  Centralized mining is pretty horrible.    And features like Verisend NEED to be open source to be useful.

neurorit
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July 15, 2014, 05:34:44 AM
 #9430

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

cannot stop laughing.

This is true, right, because it's on the internet? Or do you believe it cause you really really wanted to make some money?  Grin



VeriSend (privacy but you have to trust us hahaha since it's centeralized.. perfect example right there. So what if a government by way of coercion takes over that service?


if the government gets involved...

Fippy:
"Actually, as someone who has a long standing background in the financial world and has personally worked extensively with FinCEN, Vericoin's features in that regard are under very low risk. What is at very high risk of catching unwanted attention is the recent batch of alts that have anonymity woven into them.
By centralizing certain aspects of Verisend, they technically have the ability to comply with US Federal regulations. Coins that have built in decentralized anonymity quite literally have a target painted on their collective asses, and will be the first hammered into the dirt by the Feds should they ever start looking in that general direction."


Bobsurplus
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July 15, 2014, 05:35:07 AM
 #9431


For all the Vericoin holders that are ok with the "rollback", we would like to introduce a new exciting investment option.

"RollbackCoin"

Have your coins stolen?
Make a bad trade?
Sold all your coins and want them back?
Just want to fuck with other holders?

Just use our veri innovative "rollback" button. One push of the rollback button removes the last 25 blocks.*


*This option is only available to the devs (you can trust us)  Wink.
**We will use as often as we like.




I want more info.

PoS?
PoW
PoSA???

Coin count?

I love it

Cheesy
Equate
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July 15, 2014, 05:36:00 AM
 #9432

Rollback is necessary to build the trust among the community.
Bobsurplus
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July 15, 2014, 05:37:33 AM
 #9433

Rollback is necessary to build the trust among the community.

HAHAHA... I never thought of it that way before!
/sarcasm
BitcoinPorn
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July 15, 2014, 05:38:06 AM
 #9434

but you chose to bail out mintpal.
The devs chose to not have early users of Vericoin have their coin stolen.

barabbas
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July 15, 2014, 05:40:00 AM
 #9435

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

You are not entirely correct -because there have been some kid -of-similar "precedents" in several cryptos, including BTC.

But since VRC has been a first (and setting some much clearer precedents) in several other things of much higher importance, I don't see any problem at all in either the "precedent" of even the potential recurrence of the "precedent"... if circumstances warrant it.

I believe it is quite clear the community at large, in overwhelming numbers, are behind the dev team. In this "precedent" action and, above all, in the many others set already. Other than the thieves, who are evidently posting here BS non-stop, and more than a few so-called "purists", the vast majority, by like 80% of all stake holders, are not just supportive but extremely supportive -to ridiculous extents, admittedly, in some cases-, of a dev team and a dev team's decisions that are simply quite different from  the shameful actions of most individuals in crypto, an underworld permanently tainted by fraud and thievery... which, openly and to the point of bragging, peculiarly, those so-called "purists" support. Blatantly. Openly.

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  
ScottAllyn
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July 15, 2014, 05:41:19 AM
 #9436

there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

that being said, when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either.

Finally, someone who gets it.

Indeed. Inaction could very likely have led to that 30% share of coins being used to destroy VeriCoin, not to mention the fact that VRC owners would have immediately lost millions of dollars.

There were really only two courses of action, IMO. Either fork off the stolen coins to prevent them from ever being used again and let MintPal deal with the repercussions of VRC owners suddenly losing millions of dollars... Or do a rollback to a point in time prior to the theft.

I will admit that I'm a bit torn, but considering the fact that VeriCoin is so young and that only ~$4000 worth of VRC changed hands on the exchanges at that time (far far less than the $2,000,000 that were stolen), the rollback hardly seems like "the end of Cryptocurrency as we know it".

To everyone who's screaming about the rollback, I do understand your arguments, but seriously... where in the hell were you when WorldCoin did their rollback last November after the double-spending and 51% attack? That actually seemed to be received as a positive action by the bulk of the community at the time.

Ignored User Cleanup Script - Completely hide ignored users!
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July 15, 2014, 05:42:20 AM
 #9437

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

You are not entirely correct -because there have been some kid -of-similar "precedents" in several cryptos, including BTC.

But since VRC has been a first (and setting some much clearer precedents) in several other things of much higher importance, I don't see any problem at all in either the "precedent" of even the potential recurrence of the "precedent"... if circumstances warrant it.

I believe it is quite clear the community at large, in overwhelming numbers, are behind the dev team. In this "precedent" action and, above all, in the many others set already. Other than the thieves, who are evidently posting here BS non-stop, and more than a few so-called "purists", the vast majority, by like 80% of all stake holders, are not just supportive but extremely supportive -to ridiculous extents, admittedly, in some cases-, of a dev team and a dev team's decisions that are simply quite different from  the shameful actions of most individuals in crypto, an underworld permanently tainted by fraud and thievery... which, openly and to the point of bragging, peculiarly, those so-called "purists" support. Blatantly. Openly.

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  

I never thought I would EVER say this about IE/barabbas but...... +1
portice
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July 15, 2014, 05:45:18 AM
 #9438

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.
that being said,
when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Exactly, there was no choice but to do the rollback.  I'm glad we all agree on this.  I think we also all agree that centralized exchanges are bad.  Centralized mining is pretty horrible.    And features like Verisend NEED to be open source to be useful.

Way to quote out of text asshole
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July 15, 2014, 05:45:35 AM
 #9439

Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal.

30% of Vericoin holders had their investment preserved is what happened.

Quote
to break a fundamental rule.

What is this? the Torah? Even the Jews break their laws. Did you read this thing. Fuck your archaic rules. 30% of Vericoin holders just don't feel like having to deal with the tyranny of these rules.


Quote
Its a sad day in crypto,

Oh poor you, poor baby, you want mommy to make it all better for you?

Quote
especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

Saving 30% of Vericoin users was the serious thing to do. Suicide for some silly rule is not serious. It's giving up.

Quote
This move will never be forgotten.

Yes, Vericoin made history, and it's only in 14th place in market cap. It's going up.


barabbas
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July 15, 2014, 05:47:00 AM
 #9440

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

You are not entirely correct -because there have been some kid -of-similar "precedents" in several cryptos, including BTC.

But since VRC has been a first (and setting some much clearer precedents) in several other things of much higher importance, I don't see any problem at all in either the "precedent" of even the potential recurrence of the "precedent"... if circumstances warrant it.

I believe it is quite clear the community at large, in overwhelming numbers, are behind the dev team. In this "precedent" action and, above all, in the many others set already. Other than the thieves, who are evidently posting here BS non-stop, and more than a few so-called "purists", the vast majority, by like 80% of all stake holders, are not just supportive but extremely supportive -to ridiculous extents, admittedly, in some cases-, of a dev team and a dev team's decisions that are simply quite different from  the shameful actions of most individuals in crypto, an underworld permanently tainted by fraud and thievery... which, openly and to the point of bragging, peculiarly, those so-called "purists" support. Blatantly. Openly.

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  

I never thought I would EVER say this about IE/barabbas but...... +1

It could be that you are growing up Will, I doubt it but could be. You direly need to though. And use whatever matter you have under your hair significantly more too.
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