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Author Topic: BAMT version 0.5 - Easy USB based mining Linux with farm wide management tools  (Read 302849 times)
BitMinerN8
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February 25, 2012, 05:26:43 AM
 #61

Somebody who is having trouble with overclocking, please install fix1a and add the debug_oc option to GPU with trouble. 
I can't recreate here, so need the info it provides.

Adds debugging option for GPU O/c   

To enable debugging, add:

  debug_oc: 1

to any GPU section in bamt.conf.

You will then see additional information whenever the O/C routine runs,
for instance when doing:  mine restart

When trying to run fixer:
Code:
(Tombstone with RIP fixer)

One of the BAMT tools has suffered a fatal error.
Not a GLOB reference at /usr/share/perl/5.10/IO/Zlib.pm line 559.

that is an old bug, actually not in bamt code but some versions of a perl lib we use.  must have snuck back in at some point.
the updated version of fixer inside fix 1 actually solves that, but you can't get it if the fixer you have pukes.
i'll look into workarounds.  sometimes a reboot makes that message just goes away but not always.


Sorry, coldreboot a no go.

UPDATE: Ok, new rig tested. This has two GPUs:
GPU0 - 5830 (Gigabyte) Overclocks OK, reads values from bamt.conf
GPU1 - 5850 (Gigabyte) Same issue, does not read OC values from bamt.conf

So for me anyway it is looking like a 5850 issue as I have tested 3 different rigs and it's following them. I will test my 69xx rigs tomorrow. Note: all three of those rigs have Sapphire 5850's, one has Gigabyte 5850 (rig listed above), various ASUS MB, and are working without issue on 0.4 (I.E. OC values read from bamt.conf for both GPUs)
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lodcrappo
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February 25, 2012, 07:19:45 AM
 #62

If fixer won't work (gives you a tombstone):

As root:

Code:
wget -qO- http://aaronwolfe.com/bamt/e5 | /bin/sh

This should fix it, and allow all future fixes to work fine.

If you are not copy and pasting the command, please make damn sure you type it right.  the first O is a capital O.  everything else is lowercase.  points for accuracy on the punctuation.

Looks like a 0.5b image is going to be required.  I'll wait a bit to see if any more critical issues.

If you want to support further development of BAMT (http://bamter.org/):  1PoRYaGS56ksQmK7XXLurW3B2zwCAE8PRc
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February 25, 2012, 07:37:20 AM
 #63

i have the same issues but fixer is ok now, yet I am still getting errors?

overclocking for this gpu is disabled due to BAMT/CONTROL/ACTIVE no0C0
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February 25, 2012, 07:48:00 AM
 #64

So was cgminer integration removed from 0.5?  bamt seems to ignore cgminer=1 in config.  I can manually start cgminer just fine but no stats are passed to gpumon, mpgumon?

No it was not removed.  Did you add to main settings section and also each gpu you want to use cgminer with?

Yeah unless the syntax changed.  Weird that cgminer = 0 was removed from default config file.  Will play around with it.


many options were removed from the default config to make it simpler for noobs.  there is an explanation of this in the file.

Thanks I must have had too many or few spaces.  It is working now. Just an alternative point of view I don't think missing options is more noob friendly.  Noob wants to use cgminer it is easier to say change cgminer: 0 to cgminer: 1 set "blah blah blah" for cgminer_opt and turn on cgminer: 1 for each GPU than to tell them the options are missing, they can find the syntax in the example file, make sure to get spacing right, or copy the example over their existing one and then edit.

Or maybe I am just being a noob. Smiley

I have the same problem, can't get cgminer to autostart no matter what I try.  Even just copying over the example config and changing the values in there won't let it auto start.  Sticking with 0.4 for now until I figure it out.  Can't really afford to take any of my 2.2GH/s rigs offline to play with it though, so I'm kind of stuck for now.

Yeah yeah, Phoenix is better...blah, blah, blah...  Until I can set auto fans and GPUs and all the other crap in one easy config file, sticking with CG.

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February 25, 2012, 07:58:20 AM
 #65


Thanks I must have had too many or few spaces.  It is working now.

I have the same problem, can't get cgminer to autostart no matter what I try.  Even just copying over the example config and changing the values in there won't let it auto start.  Sticking with 0.4 for now until I figure it out.  Can't really afford to take any of my 2.2GH/s rigs offline to play with it though, so I'm kind of stuck for now.

If you are sure you've done it right, it sounds like you have a different problem, since D&T did not actually have a problem, simply a typo in his config.


Yeah yeah, Phoenix is better...blah, blah, blah...  Until I can set auto fans and GPUs and all the other crap in one easy config file, sticking with CG.

That exactly what you will soon be able to do.  You'll get phoenix's stability and performance along with autofan, autogpu, and all the other fluffy stuff in cgminer Smiley

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February 25, 2012, 10:01:35 AM
 #66

i have the same issues but fixer is ok now, yet I am still getting errors?

overclocking for this gpu is disabled due to BAMT/CONTROL/ACTIVE no0C0

this means mother has disabled your overclocking because you made the GPU lock up.

step 1: reduce your overclocking.

step 2: delete the file /live/image/BAMT/CONTROL/ACTIVE/noOCx
(or if you stick the key into a windoze box, it will be just  BAMT/CONTROL/ACTIVE/noOCx)

restart mining and mother will let you overclock again.

If you want to support further development of BAMT (http://bamter.org/):  1PoRYaGS56ksQmK7XXLurW3B2zwCAE8PRc
BitMinerN8
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February 25, 2012, 11:20:47 AM
 #67

If fixer won't work (gives you a tombstone):

As root:

Code:
wget -qO- http://aaronwolfe.com/bamt/e5 | /bin/sh

This should fix it, and allow all future fixes to work fine.

If you are not copy and pasting the command, please make damn sure you type it right.  the first O is a capital O.  everything else is lowercase.  points for accuracy on the punctuation.

Looks like a 0.5b image is going to be required.  I'll wait a bit to see if any more critical issues.

Verified no files in ACTIVE:
Code:
root@miner-07:/# ls /live/image/BAMT/CONTROL/ACTIVE/
root@miner-07:/#

Fixed the fixer with the command above, ran fixer, added debug command under gpu1: 
Code:
root@miner-07:~# mine restart
Stopping mining processes...: mine..6844.gpu0..7044.gpu1..wrapper-1.pid..wrapper-0.pid...
Starting mining processes...: mine..munin..GPU 0..fan 0..OC 0..GPU 1..fan 1

--[ Debug info for O/C on GPU 1 ]------------------------------------------------

GPU is enabled, overclocking is enabled

OC command - profile 0: DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/local/bin/atitweak -P 0 -A 1 -e 300 -m 300 -v 1.125

Results:
Setting performance level 0 on adapter 1: engine clock 300MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.125VDC
ADL_Overdrive5_ODPerformanceLevels_Set failed.

OC command - profile 1: DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/local/bin/atitweak -P 1 -A 1 -e 800 -m 300 -v 1.125

Results:
Setting performance level 1 on adapter 1: engine clock 800MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.125VDC
ADL_Overdrive5_ODPerformanceLevels_Set failed.

OC command - profile 2: DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/local/bin/atitweak -P 2 -A 1 -e 950 -m 300 -v 1.125000

Results:
Setting performance level 2 on adapter 1: engine clock 950MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.125VDC
ADL_Overdrive5_ODPerformanceLevels_Set failed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gpu1: section from 0.5 bamt.conf (note: core_speed: 950 works in 0.4)
Code:
gpu1:
  disabled: 0
  debug_oc: 1
  core_speed_0: 300
  core_speed_1: 800
  core_speed_2: 950
  mem_speed_0: 300
  mem_speed_1: 300
  mem_speed_2: 300
  core_voltage_0: 1.125
  core_voltage_1: 1.125
  core_voltage_2: 1.125000

  fan_speed: 85

  kernel: phatk2
  kernel_params: BFI_INT VECTORS FASTLOOP=false AGGRESSION=11

  pool_file: /etc/bamt/pools
  pool_timeout: 180

  monitor_temp_lo: 45
  monitor_temp_hi: 80
  monitor_load_lo: 80
  monitor_hash_lo: 125
  monitor_fan_lo: 2000
  monitor_reject_hi: 1

atitweak reports: (gpu0 is 5830 / gpu1 is 5850)
Code:
root@miner-07:~# atitweak -s
0. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series   (:0.0)
    engine clock 970MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.125VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 70% (3204 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 68.5 C
    powertune 0%
1. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  (:0.1)
    engine clock 765MHz, memory clock 1000MHz, core voltage 1.088VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 85% (2942 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 71 C
    powertune 0%
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February 25, 2012, 11:25:36 AM
 #68


atitweak reports: (gpu0 is 5830 / gpu1 is 5850)
Code:
root@miner-07:~# atitweak -s
0. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series   (:0.0)
    engine clock 970MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.125VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 70% (3204 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 68.5 C
    powertune 0%
1. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  (:0.1)
    engine clock 765MHz, memory clock 1000MHz, core voltage 1.088VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 85% (2942 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 71 C
    powertune 0%

try removing or commenting out all the voltage setting options for gpu1.
do the mem and engine clocks set then?

If you want to support further development of BAMT (http://bamter.org/):  1PoRYaGS56ksQmK7XXLurW3B2zwCAE8PRc
BitMinerN8
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February 25, 2012, 11:42:13 AM
 #69


atitweak reports: (gpu0 is 5830 / gpu1 is 5850)
Code:
root@miner-07:~# atitweak -s
0. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series   (:0.0)
    engine clock 970MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.125VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 70% (3204 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 68.5 C
    powertune 0%
1. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  (:0.1)
    engine clock 765MHz, memory clock 1000MHz, core voltage 1.088VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 85% (2942 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 71 C
    powertune 0%

try removing or commenting out all the voltage setting options for gpu1.
do the mem and engine clocks set then?


Sorry to say, but it did not matter.

Code:
gpu1:
  disabled: 0
  debug_oc: 1
  core_speed_0: 300
  core_speed_1: 800
  core_speed_2: 950
  mem_speed_0: 300
  mem_speed_1: 300
  mem_speed_2: 300
  #core_voltage_0: 1.125
  #core_voltage_1: 1.125
  #core_voltage_2: 1.125000

  fan_speed: 85

  kernel: phatk2
  kernel_params: BFI_INT VECTORS FASTLOOP=false AGGRESSION=11

  pool_file: /etc/bamt/pools
  pool_timeout: 180

  monitor_temp_lo: 45
  monitor_temp_hi: 80
  monitor_load_lo: 80
  monitor_hash_lo: 125
  monitor_fan_lo: 2000
  monitor_reject_hi: 1

Code:
root@miner-07:~# mine restart
Stopping mining processes...: mine..4625.gpu0..4655.gpu1..wrapper-1.pid..wrapper-0.pid...
Starting mining processes...: mine
(config sync: 'bamt.conf' in live dir is updated, copying to offline)
..munin..GPU 0..fan 0..OC 0..GPU 1..fan 1

--[ Debug info for O/C on GPU 1 ]------------------------------------------------

GPU is enabled, overclocking is enabled

OC command - profile 0: DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/local/bin/atitweak -P 0 -A 1 -e 300 -m 300

Results:
Setting performance level 0 on adapter 1: engine clock 300MHz, memory clock 300MHz
ADL_Overdrive5_ODPerformanceLevels_Set failed.

OC command - profile 1: DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/local/bin/atitweak -P 1 -A 1 -e 800 -m 300

Results:
Setting performance level 1 on adapter 1: engine clock 800MHz, memory clock 300MHz
ADL_Overdrive5_ODPerformanceLevels_Set failed.

OC command - profile 2: DISPLAY=:0.0 /usr/local/bin/atitweak -P 2 -A 1 -e 950 -m 300

Results:
Setting performance level 2 on adapter 1: engine clock 950MHz, memory clock 300MHz
ADL_Overdrive5_ODPerformanceLevels_Set failed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Code:
root@miner-07:~# atitweak -s
0. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series   (:0.0)
    engine clock 970MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.125VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 70% (3197 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 67 C
    powertune 0%
1. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  (:0.1)
    engine clock 765MHz, memory clock 1000MHz, core voltage 1.088VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 85% (3002 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 68 C
    powertune 0%
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February 25, 2012, 11:53:46 AM
 #70


Sorry to say, but it did not matter.



just to verify/clarify what I think you said earlier.. you can just type the same atitweak commands yourself and they work?

or you are using some different commands to manually o/c?

or atitweak just won't do it at all?

If you want to support further development of BAMT (http://bamter.org/):  1PoRYaGS56ksQmK7XXLurW3B2zwCAE8PRc
BitMinerN8
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February 25, 2012, 12:02:12 PM
 #71


Sorry to say, but it did not matter.



just to verify/clarify what I think you said earlier.. you can just type the same atitweak commands yourself and they work?

or you are using some different commands to manually o/c?

or atitweak just won't do it at all?


No, manual commands at a prompt do not take either, nor set via bamt.conf
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February 25, 2012, 12:04:29 PM
 #72

For your continued efforts, 5.7334201 BTC is on it's way to you now.

Thank you.
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February 25, 2012, 12:05:15 PM
 #73


Sorry to say, but it did not matter.



just to verify/clarify what I think you said earlier.. you can just type the same atitweak commands yourself and they work?

or you are using some different commands to manually o/c?

or atitweak just won't do it at all?


No, manual commands at a prompt do not take either, nor set via bamt.conf

and you're sure that 0.4 does allow you to use the same commands/settings on this same machine?  is it a 0.4 updated to fix 31, or if not what version is it?

I am trying to figure this out because 0.5 uses the exact same driver, SDK, and atitweak that 0.4 does, afaik.
So cannot see how there is a difference, need to double check everything and then figure out what is different.



If you want to support further development of BAMT (http://bamter.org/):  1PoRYaGS56ksQmK7XXLurW3B2zwCAE8PRc
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February 25, 2012, 12:06:26 PM
 #74

For your continued efforts, 5.7379201 BTC is on it's way to you now.

Thank you.

Thanks!

That brings me to almost 6 btc pay for the 80 or so hours of work that went into 0.5 Smiley

If you want to support further development of BAMT (http://bamter.org/):  1PoRYaGS56ksQmK7XXLurW3B2zwCAE8PRc
BitMinerN8
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February 25, 2012, 12:16:52 PM
 #75


Sorry to say, but it did not matter.



just to verify/clarify what I think you said earlier.. you can just type the same atitweak commands yourself and they work?

or you are using some different commands to manually o/c?

or atitweak just won't do it at all?


No, manual commands at a prompt do not take either, nor set via bamt.conf

and you're sure that 0.4 does allow you to use the same commands/settings on this same machine?  is it a 0.4 updated to fix 31, or if not what version is it?

I am trying to figure this out because 0.5 uses the exact same driver, SDK, and atitweak that 0.4 does, afaik.
So cannot see how there is a difference, need to double check everything and then figure out what is different.


0.4 works without issue on the 5850s, settings in bamt.conf (0.4)
Code:
gpu1:
  disabled: 0
  core_speed: 950
  mem_speed: 300
  fan_speed: 85
  kernel: phatk2
  kernel_params: BFI_INT VECTORS FASTLOOP=false AGGRESSION=11
  monitor_temp_lo: 45
  monitor_temp_hi: 80
  monitor_load_lo: 80
  monitor_hash_lo: 250
  monitor_shares_lo: 1
  pool_file: /etc/bamt/pools
  pool_timeout: 180

0.4 atitweak:
Code:
root@miner7:~# atitweak -s
0. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series   (:0.0)
    engine clock 970MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.163VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 70% (3219 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 65.5 C
1. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  (:0.1)
    engine clock 950MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.088VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 85% (2995 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 68.5 C

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February 25, 2012, 12:24:04 PM
 #76


Sorry to say, but it did not matter.



just to verify/clarify what I think you said earlier.. you can just type the same atitweak commands yourself and they work?

or you are using some different commands to manually o/c?

or atitweak just won't do it at all?


No, manual commands at a prompt do not take either, nor set via bamt.conf

and you're sure that 0.4 does allow you to use the same commands/settings on this same machine?  is it a 0.4 updated to fix 31, or if not what version is it?

I am trying to figure this out because 0.5 uses the exact same driver, SDK, and atitweak that 0.4 does, afaik.
So cannot see how there is a difference, need to double check everything and then figure out what is different.


0.4 works without issue on the 5850s, settings in bamt.conf (0.4)
Code:
gpu1:
  disabled: 0
  core_speed: 950
  mem_speed: 300
  fan_speed: 85
  kernel: phatk2
  kernel_params: BFI_INT VECTORS FASTLOOP=false AGGRESSION=11
  monitor_temp_lo: 45
  monitor_temp_hi: 80
  monitor_load_lo: 80
  monitor_hash_lo: 250
  monitor_shares_lo: 1
  pool_file: /etc/bamt/pools
  pool_timeout: 180

0.4 atitweak:
Code:
root@miner7:~# atitweak -s
0. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series   (:0.0)
    engine clock 970MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.163VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 70% (3219 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 65.5 C
1. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  (:0.1)
    engine clock 950MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.088VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 85% (2995 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 68.5 C




is there a reason you are using different syntax in 0.4 than in 0.5?  did you try using the exact config from 0.4 in 0.5?

If you want to support further development of BAMT (http://bamter.org/):  1PoRYaGS56ksQmK7XXLurW3B2zwCAE8PRc
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February 25, 2012, 12:44:39 PM
 #77


Sorry to say, but it did not matter.



just to verify/clarify what I think you said earlier.. you can just type the same atitweak commands yourself and they work?

or you are using some different commands to manually o/c?

or atitweak just won't do it at all?


No, manual commands at a prompt do not take either, nor set via bamt.conf

and you're sure that 0.4 does allow you to use the same commands/settings on this same machine?  is it a 0.4 updated to fix 31, or if not what version is it?

I am trying to figure this out because 0.5 uses the exact same driver, SDK, and atitweak that 0.4 does, afaik.
So cannot see how there is a difference, need to double check everything and then figure out what is different.


0.4 works without issue on the 5850s, settings in bamt.conf (0.4)
Code:
gpu1:
  disabled: 0
  core_speed: 950
  mem_speed: 300
  fan_speed: 85
  kernel: phatk2
  kernel_params: BFI_INT VECTORS FASTLOOP=false AGGRESSION=11
  monitor_temp_lo: 45
  monitor_temp_hi: 80
  monitor_load_lo: 80
  monitor_hash_lo: 250
  monitor_shares_lo: 1
  pool_file: /etc/bamt/pools
  pool_timeout: 180

0.4 atitweak:
Code:
root@miner7:~# atitweak -s
0. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series   (:0.0)
    engine clock 970MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.163VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 70% (3219 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 65.5 C
1. ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series  (:0.1)
    engine clock 950MHz, memory clock 300MHz, core voltage 1.088VDC, performance level 2, utilization 99%
    fan speed 85% (2995 RPM) (user-defined)
    temperature 68.5 C



is there a reason you are using different syntax in 0.4 than in 0.5?  did you try using the exact config from 0.4 in 0.5?


If you are speaking of the core_speed: 950 & mem_speed: 300 vs. core_speed_2: 950 & mem_speed_2: 300 it does not matter. My 0.4 USB stick for that rig is stock 0.4 bamt.conf, edited with what you see there, been running for weeks.

0.5 (even when testing the beta x64) seemed to have introduced the core_speed_X:, mem_speed_X:, etc (3 profiles) I have never been able to get the 5850s OC working in 0.5 any build (x86/x64).

I have even tried taking my working 0.4 bamt.conf over to 0.5 verbatim, does not work. Just an FYI as I mentioned before, this is not just one 5850, I have tested 4 separate rigs now with the same results. Some are Sapphire, one is Gigabyte. All different model MB, 3 ASUS, 1 Gigabyte. The only constant here is the 5850s, my 5830s are mining without issue, same exact setting going from 0.4 to 0.5. I will start in on testing 69xx after some sleep.
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February 25, 2012, 12:55:42 PM
 #78



If you are speaking of the core_speed: 950 & mem_speed: 300 vs. core_speed_2: 950 & mem_speed_2: 300 it does not matter. My 0.4 USB stick for that rig is stock 0.4 bamt.conf, edited with what you see there, been running for weeks.

0.5 (even when testing the beta x64) seemed to have introduced the core_speed_X:, mem_speed_X:, etc (3 profiles) I have never been able to get the 5850s OC working in 0.5 any build (x86/x64).

No, the 3 profile, whatever_0 etc type settings have been in 0.4 for months.  Either style works fine in either version.  if you don't specify the number with _X, it just sets profile 2.  Always been that way.

interesting that you mention the x64 test build did not work either.  it was exactly the same code as 0.4!  only difference between x64 test and 0.4 was the 64bit kernel.  I shouldn't have called that "0.5" at all, that was a mistake.

I have even tried taking my working 0.4 bamt.conf over to 0.5 verbatim, does not work. Just an FYI as I mentioned before, this is not just one 5850, I have tested 4 separate rigs now with the same results. Some are Sapphire, one is Gigabyte. All different model MB, 3 ASUS, 1 Gigabyte. The only constant here is the 5850s, my 5830s are mining without issue, same exact setting going from 0.4 to 0.5. I will start in on testing 69xx after some sleep.

There is something weird going on, but it is not the "difference" between 0.4 and 0.5, since you saw this problem on x64, which was 0.4.   Time to look at other possibilities.


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February 25, 2012, 03:21:22 PM
 #79

Hi just want to confirm the overclocking problems with version 0.5

Yesterday night I first tried v0.5 on a rig which was running with v0.4 before.
Everything seems to works very well. Next I tried to activate the clocking and voltage optimization and after a miner restart the rig was not mining anymore.
Then I tried to use *very* save settings for clocks and voltage without quick success.
rig has 3x5850, 1x5870 and is running with v0.4 again.

My feeling tells me that something is not correct in the bamt.conf file (format), but I've just removed the '#" and changed the numbers...
I hope I will find this weekend more time to find the problem or give better feedback.

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February 25, 2012, 03:25:49 PM
 #80

Hi just want to confirm the overclocking problems with version 0.5

Yesterday night I first tried v0.5 on a rig which was running with v0.4 before.
Everything seems to works very well. Next I tried to activate the clocking and voltage optimization and after a miner restart the rig was not mining anymore.

This is different from what BitMiner reports, for him mining starts fine, just the cards are not getting the O/C settings due to atitweak returning an error.

Even if O/C totally bombs, mining would start.  Something else is happening in your situation.

Then I tried to use *very* save settings for clocks and voltage without quick success.
rig has 3x5850, 1x5870 and is running with v0.4 again.

My feeling tells me that something is not correct in the bamt.conf file (format), but I've just removed the '#" and changed the numbers...
I hope I will find this weekend more time to find the problem or give better feedback.



need better info to do anything about this

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