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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2009167 times)
dloghwak
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May 20, 2015, 03:26:11 PM
 #24601

[I am] simultaneously interacting with a significant number of females (try that!).

Did you actually write that? 

Or we can meet for a boxing match...I could utilize a human punching bag

 Roll Eyes

Well that escalated quickly. Grin
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May 20, 2015, 03:27:40 PM
 #24602

Hi everybody,
has any of you watched the following documentary (Money vs Currency - Hidden Secrets Of Money by Mike Maloney)?


For a goldbug Maloney is very positive on Bitcoin.

https://youtu.be/dGsir1ypCP8


His Hidden Secrets of Money is worth a watch if you are new to the subject.

http://hiddensecretsofmoney.com/
cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 03:30:30 PM
 #24603

sidhujag & Pruden,

you are going to get f*cked.  get out now.  this one doesn't look like its coming back:

cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 03:33:13 PM
 #24604

sidhujag & Pruden,

you are going to get f*cked.  get out now.  this one doesn't look like its coming back:

-

btw, i'm on record thinking that a stock mkt crash will cause a ramp in Bitcoin and a plunge in gold.
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May 20, 2015, 03:37:48 PM
 #24605

Hi everybody,
has any of you watched the following documentary (Money vs Currency - Hidden Secrets Of Money by Mike Maloney)?


For a goldbug Maloney is very positive on Bitcoin.

https://youtu.be/dGsir1ypCP8


His Hidden Secrets of Money is worth a watch if you are new to the subject.

http://hiddensecretsofmoney.com/

Thanks man that's the docu I watched. I didn't know the one on BTC.
Wink

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lunarboy
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May 20, 2015, 03:40:51 PM
 #24606

sidhujag & Pruden,

you are going to get f*cked.  get out now.  this one doesn't look like its coming back:

-

btw, i'm on record thinking that a stock mkt crash will cause a ramp in Bitcoin and a plunge in gold.

Whilst long term I think you'll be right,  for the next few years or so I'd think it more likely that both will go up with a market crash as they are safe stores of value. Presently more so gold rather than bitcoin.

Care to remind everyone why you believe this to be the case?
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May 20, 2015, 03:45:33 PM
 #24607

RUT starting to roll again after having broken the wedge:



prepare for launch:

Adrian-x
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May 20, 2015, 03:56:48 PM
 #24608

I may have just one last thing under this username to say to those who are fighting for Bitcoin.

You have blood on your hands; justified by your foolish greed wherein you tell yourselves lies to wish away the clear writing on the wall.

Bitcoin and any PoW coin is doomed to mining take over by NWO coincident with the means to sell fully opaque heat appliances to the masses who do not give a fuck about their enslavement with a NWO coin. If you can't reason it out, show no gratitude to someone who could elucidate it to you, then you deserve your ignorant fate.

I am not concerned. I am hyper pissed off at you guys that you do not care that the world will be turned into a 1984 in your lifetime.

I am so pissed off at you, I will not rest until I pummel you and your NWO coin. In what way? Because your NWO coin is a wealth expropriation plan. It is a monopoly plan on mining to cartels and oligarchs. Top-down control malfunctions, restricts opportunities, kills network efforts, under performs, overcharges, and in general is a bankruptcy directed paradigm.

How dare you characterize my discussion in this thread as an echo chamber. You should be ashamed of yourselves, but guys like you only learn the hard way of being separated from your capital so that you can't repeat your juvenile destructive shit again.

I will get the last and very rich laugh.

Miners will be marginalized to a marginal cost of securing the network provided the current incentive structure is not changed, ideas like SideChains put the balance of power in the hands of those who can control mining power. The NWO will do everything they can to control mining. Miners who provided more efficient services will prevail.

Many of your concerns assume you would be a benevolent dictator. However you think most of the world is content heating hot water in a bucket, I believe a decentralized free market knows that is a temporary state and will work to improve it.

Bitcoin mining is one way to do it with a good ROI.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 03:57:35 PM
 #24609

Not Adrian-x,

Blah, blah, blah.

You will left holding NWO coin when the musical chairs stop playing.

Talk is cheap.


Miners will be marginalized to a marginal cost of securing the network provided the current incentive structure is not changed,

All (or surely > 50% of the hashrate of) the mining is going to be controlled by cartel and oligarchs. How many times do I have to repeat that they are not interested in double-spending. They are interested in enforcing KYC on all txns, in a monopoly on txns fees so they can raise them as high as the market will bear, in a Digital Kill Switch on txns from dissidants or competitors, and other anti-competitive behavior of fascist monopolies.

ideas like SideChains put the balance of power in the hands of those who can control mining power.

The cartels and oligarchs will control all the mining power due to the 100% efficiency of opaque heating appliances which will pay all the PoW coins to them. This is an undeniable economic outcome of the fact that other forms of mining can't compete.

The NWO will do everything they can to control mining. Miners who provided more efficient services will prevail.


Opaque heating appliances are maximally efficient. Nothing can do better.

Many of your concerns assume you would be a benevolent dictator.

Nope.

However you think most of the world is content heating hot water in a bucket

I never wrote that. This is low IQ reading comprehension.

I wrote that as they make the transition to middle class, their opportunity cost of managing mining on their water heater rules out significant adoption of water heaters that require mining. But smooth offered the idea that 21 Inc's plan is to control all of the variables with such top-down perfection that they can provide heating devices which the user doesn't even need to know it is a miner (mines on autopilot).

After contemplating that for a moment, I realized he is probably correct. The elite have every incentive to use any amount of resources necessary to bring that to fruition.

, I believe a decentralized free market knows that is a temporary state and will work to improve it.

Bitcoin mining is one way to do it with a good ROI.

Irrational. Review the facts written above.

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May 20, 2015, 04:00:48 PM
 #24610

Hi everybody,
has any of you watched the following documentary (Money vs Currency - Hidden Secrets Of Money by Mike Maloney)?
This guy does not mention Bitcoin throughout the documentary but knowing something about it this made me more and more conscious that BTC is a real opportunity in a time of crisis like the one we're facing now.

From my point of view, BTC is like gold and better than gold in some aspects.

I hope some of you will find this interesting.
Wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

He does talk about Bitcoin in video 5, he was a Bitcoin skeptic for a while and I believe he was buying in in the $400 range as a proponent.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 04:14:29 PM
 #24611

Your comments about solar water heaters are irrelevant, because people aren't buying them (in the dominant markets). They are therefore inferior in some way (don't work particularly well in built-up cities for example, which is where populations are moving), in the opinion of the people making the purchases. That's the only opinion that matters, not yours.

Solar water heaters have issues. And mining doesn't  Huh

You're not getting that nobody is proposing "mining" in anything like the form it is done today, with all of its issues. Embedded deeply into a product (or indeed embedded deeply into a chip which is embedded deeply into a product) it won't be recognizable.


for the first time ever in Bitcoin's history, we'll have a scalable mining ASIC embedded in the most popular portable computing device on the planet (smartphones) whose growth is set to skyrocket and turn billions of unbanked into banked clients not only for micropayments but for standard commerce via a hardware wallet.  the portability aspect of this device potentially will allow it to mine for free.  right now i can envision unemployed African kids camped out at Starbucks or public libraries with not one but 7 Android phones (2 in their front pockets, 2 in their back pockets, 2 in their shirt pockets, and 1 in their hands for surfing) plugged into public outlets generating BTC while they're sipping their lattes.  wait, nevermind Starbucks.  why not go to the airports where it's plain to see the proliferation of phone charging kiosks in preparation for the smartphone age?  

free electricity for all!
Bassica
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May 20, 2015, 04:23:08 PM
 #24612

RUT starting to roll again after having broken the wedge:

img Russell
prepare for launch:

 img VIX

I'm actually short russel since yesterday, or is that what you mean? Still leveraged short on S&P, got pushed out of my DJIX shorts Sad might get myself some new contracts. Also some longs VIX just for the hell of it.

 
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May 20, 2015, 04:26:00 PM
 #24613


Thanks for the links, appreciated. (Note to self: every once in a while have a look at r/bitcoin)

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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May 20, 2015, 04:27:03 PM
 #24614

RUT starting to roll again after having broken the wedge:

img Russell
prepare for launch:

 img VIX

I'm actually short russel since yesterday, or is that what you mean? Still leveraged short on S&P, got pushed out of my DJIX shorts Sad might get myself some new contracts. Also some longs VIX just for the hell of it.

 

certainly don't rely on me for investment advice.  personally, i stopped trading the stock mkt some time ago (too much manipulation) altho i still have my open gold short DZZ.
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May 20, 2015, 04:27:56 PM
 #24615

for the first time ever in Bitcoin's history, we'll have a scalable mining ASIC embedded in the most popular portable computing device on the planet (smartphones) whose growth is set to skyrocket and turn billions of unbanked into banked clients not only for micropayments but for standard commerce via a hardware wallet.  the portability aspect of this device potentially will allow it to mine for free.  right now i can envision unemployed African kids camped out at Starbucks or public libraries with not one but 7 Android phones (2 in their front pockets, 2 in their back pockets, 2 in their shirt pockets, and 1 in their hands for surfing) plugged into public outlets generating BTC while they're sipping their lattes.  wait, nevermind Starbucks.  why not go to the airports where it's plain to see the proliferation of phone charging kiosks in preparation for the smartphone age?  

free electricity for all!

Perhaps you missed the point that the plan (at least for the heating appliances) is likely to sell devices at lower cost and all the coins go to the cartels and oligarchs. The users are not to have to deal with any of the complications of mining and the mining runs on auto-pilot.

Assuming phones at higher cost will be available that allow users to get the coins from mining, I fail to see how this is paradigmatically differentiated from the $9 USB stick miner I can buy on Amazon.com and plug into my phone and computer now. Meaning there won't be any great adoption of users mining coins for themselves that isn't already underway.

The only major paradigm shift here is lower cost devices (appliances and smartphones) for dumb users, and the mined coins are going to the cartels and oligarchs.

If you can't grasp that obvious reality then I don't know what else to say to you. I guess enjoy the bliss while you can.

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May 20, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
 #24616

for the first time ever in Bitcoin's history, we'll have a scalable mining ASIC embedded in the most popular portable computing device on the planet (smartphones) whose growth is set to skyrocket and turn billions of unbanked into banked clients not only for micropayments but for standard commerce via a hardware wallet.  the portability aspect of this device potentially will allow it to mine for free.  right now i can envision unemployed African kids camped out at Starbucks or public libraries with not one but 7 Android phones (2 in their front pockets, 2 in their back pockets, 2 in their shirt pockets, and 1 in their hands for surfing) plugged into public outlets generating BTC while they're sipping their lattes.  wait, nevermind Starbucks.  why not go to the airports where it's plain to see the proliferation of phone charging kiosks in preparation for the smartphone age?  

free electricity for all!

Perhaps you missed the point that the plan (at least for the heating appliances) is likely to sell devices at lower cost and all the coins go to the cartels and oligarchs. The users are not to have to deal with any of the complications of mining and the mining runs on auto-pilot.

Assuming phones at higher cost will be available that allow users to get the coins from mining, I fail to see how this is paradigmatically differentiated from the $9 USB stick miner I can buy on Amazon.com and plug into my phone and computer now. Meaning there won't be any great adoption of users mining coins for themselves that isn't already underway.

The only major paradigm shift here is lower cost devices for user, and the mined coins are going to the cartels and oligarchs.

If you can't grasp that obvious reality then I don't know what else to say to you. I guess enjoy the bliss while you can.

the only financial plan i've heard of is the 25/75% split btwn the consumer and 21, so the consumer is going to get spending coin.  and that would be business savvy for the companies b/c that allows consumers to purchase other services and features.  yes, the mining and hardware wallet will be on autopilot and already setup which makes it brain dead easy for even guys like you to use so you won't feel so bad for having not bought @ $13.

since your brain continues to be adversely affected by the MS, the difference btwn a USB mining stick is that it has to be plugged into a non-portable computer to mine.  and this means at home where you'd have to pay for your own electricity.  your reading comprehension failed to pick up the part about "portable" and "free".  

your logic failure about a NWO & Digital Kill Switch scenario is that there is no reasonable financial elite apparatchik who would ever want to give up their greatest WMD, the printing press, in order to roll the dice on orchestrating a worldwide transition to such a dangerous (to them) tech such as Bitcoin.  you fail to read history going back to the cypherpunks of the 1970-80's on the quest/evolution of digital, anonymous money.  Bitcoin is the culmination of that project.  not some NSA sponsored scheme.  sorry dude.  you need to up your meds.
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May 20, 2015, 04:50:23 PM
 #24617

i don't have the energy right now to put up all the charts for you guys but for anyone interested in getting a feel for what's going on in the real economy should go look up the charts of energy, copper, mining companies, commodities, etc.  

most have already rolled and are starting to roll again, ie, deflation in full force.
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May 20, 2015, 04:51:54 PM
 #24618

the only financial plan i've heard of is the 25/75% split btwn the consumer and 21, so the consumer is going to get spending coin.  and that would be business savvy for the companies b/c that allows consumers to purchase other services and features.  yes, the mining and hardware wallet will be on autopilot and already setup which makes it brain dead easy

Meaning dumb users, who don't vote with their feet on pool centralization, meaning the mining is controlled by cartels and oligarchs as I stated.

I am sorry that your dismal logic skills demand that I be redundant.

for even guys like you to use so you won't feel so bad for having not bought @ $13.

I already told you what I am going to do to you and your NWO coin. I am not posturing. I am making a guarantee.

since your brain continues to be adversely affected by the MS,

Erroneous overconfidence and foolish pride comes before the downfall.

the difference btwn a USB mining stick is that it has to be plugged into a non-portable computer to mine.  and this means at home where you'd have to pay for your own electricity.  your reading comprehension failed to pick up the part about "portable" and "free".

Of course I didn't miss your point about stealing or parasiting electricity from public venues. We have some insight into your ethics now. We can be fairly certain that the price of the lattes will be increased accordingly.

Your ignorance of the fact that smartphones have a USB port is pathetic.

your logic failure about a NWO & Digital Kill Switch scenario is that there is no reasonable financial elite apparatchik who would ever want to give up their greatest WMD, the printing press, in order to roll the dice on orchestrating a worldwide transition to such a dangerous (to them) tech such as Bitcoin.

Control of Bitcoin mining if anything solidifies their control over media, because they can Digital Kill Switch dissidents and competitors.

 you fail to read history going back to the cypherpunks of the 1970-80's on the quest/evolution of digital, anonymous money.  Bitcoin is the culmination of that project.  not some NSA sponsored scheme.  sorry dude.  you need to up your meds.

Vacuous ideological rhetoric.

Prepare for you irrelevance. As guaranteed.

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May 20, 2015, 04:55:30 PM
 #24619

I find the 21 Dot Co. plans to be interesting and potentially pretty exciting. Speak-of efficiency though, I can't help but wonder if this could be achieved more effectively with a different algo like Blake-256 which, to my understanding, is vastly more efficient than SHA-256.  

Efficiency isn't important, it's only important to individuals relative to your competition. Efficiency determines the total hash rate. The amount of energy consumed in PoW is determined by the price of bitcoin. We are in a price zone determined by the physical limitations of available energy space etc. Once we have halved we enter a new zone.

21 are positioning themselves to take advantage of a price spike like the run-up to $1200 when mining with a shitty GPU was more profitable than at any time prior, even more profitable after the more efficient ASICs for a short time. The price dip now has made bitcoin more efficient, not the advancement in tech. That's just given an opportunity to the innovators.

Efficiency is very important in this context (although it doesn't seem like you're using the word efficiency the same way I am).

When you're talking about embedding chips in a wide range of consumer devices from larger household items to mobile devices and even their chargers, you need to do so in a way that is going to be seen as a benefit to the hardware manufacturers who will incorporate the chips into their devices -- and at the same time have it either be invisible to the end user, or be seen as a benefit to them.  

In in most cases this will be a lot more difficult to do if the devices generate noticeably more heat and use a lot more electricity, so anything that can improve this will make it an easier sell.

Yes, you can manufacture more efficient ASIC hardware for SHA-256, but you could also use the same manufacturing techniques to make ASICs designed for a more efficient algorythm and get the same hashrates, but for much less electricity/battery use and at a lower temperature.

A competing startup could potentially challenge 21 just by using a different algo and win more manufacturing partners who don't want to lower the Energy Star ratings of their appliances; or partners who want to sell super light, thin, and quiet (no fan) laptops with long battery life; phone & tablet manufacturers; etc.

There may be more efficient algos than Blake-256 - I'm using it as an example because I've mined a little with it and the white paper mentions the design being specifically suited for lightweight environments.

Here's the white paper:  https://131002.net/blake/blake.pdf


I was off topic I was making the following point. Challenging your understanding in bold.

Miners are profit driven.
Profit is defined as a return on investment.
Investment is a combination of fixed cost and veritable costs.

The opportunity cost in Bitcoin mining is a unique result of the structure of incentives in Bitcoin, simplified it comes in wave and is driven by the price of bitcoin.


The ratio of fixed cost to veritable costs is one most in bitcoin land get wrong (the evidence is the underlying wisdom that mining bitcoin is not profitable,) just this week someone found a way to add 5% to the total hashish output and I presume at a profit.

To the point you make, a more efficient algorithm that uses say half the electricity would not alter profit incentive in a PoW coin.
It would just shift the investment allocation from veritable costs to fixed costs. (The same energy would be used it is just a lot of the energy would be spent polluting as an output of chip manufacturing plants.)

Once the price and hashing network growth stabilized. A situation like we have now, miners would consume the same amount of energy, they would just need to use double the amount of efficient chips to do it. (the hash rate would just be higher not the same)

So my point being for an equal impact in the total mining pie you are going to generate an equal amount of heat.

Efficiency is not a universal principal it is a relationship relative to competition. the cost of bitcoin is what determines how much of the earths resources are needed to secure the wealth it protects.

I think it is way more efficient than an exponential 3% growth we have in fiat.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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May 20, 2015, 05:05:21 PM
 #24620

Hi everybody,
has any of you watched the following documentary (Money vs Currency - Hidden Secrets Of Money by Mike Maloney)?
This guy does not mention Bitcoin throughout the documentary but knowing something about it this made me more and more conscious that BTC is a real opportunity in a time of crisis like the one we're facing now.

From my point of view, BTC is like gold and better than gold in some aspects.

I hope some of you will find this interesting.
Wink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

He does talk about Bitcoin in video 5, he was a Bitcoin skeptic for a while and I believe he was buying in in the $400 range as a proponent.

I watched until the fourth episode only. I might watch them all then.
Thanks.

In any case, I think his prediction on the timings of economic crisis is quite accurate. History will tell.

██
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'BTC MULTI-WALLET SOON'
▬▬▬▬ Download WHITEPAPER ▬▬▬▬

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