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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2009244 times)
Bagatell
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May 20, 2015, 07:03:20 PM
 #24641

TBTB is a master troll of the highest order. Please reply with extreme caution.

There is only one way to kill a troll. Starve it.
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TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 07:04:23 PM
 #24642

TBTB is a master troll of the highest order. Please reply with extreme caution.

Grand Master 15th degree fluorescent, Nibiru belted to be precise.

Some of you are really pathetic. It is sad.

There is only one way to kill a troll. Starve it.

Ignore(ance) is your special talent.

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May 20, 2015, 07:06:51 PM
 #24643

When you're a fanatic, anyone posting a contradictory opinion is a troll. This thread is full of Bitcoin fanatics who would rather sling ad hominems than learn.

My God I was just born again. Finally someone gained something (even if only an opinion to consider) from all my effort. Hope you can withstand the backlash. Thank you.

zanzibar
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May 20, 2015, 07:39:19 PM
 #24644

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32781244

edit: Sorry for posting this, just read it and it's incredibly stupid.
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May 20, 2015, 07:40:13 PM
 #24645

TPTB, you and your handlers have 20 min to reverse this or all hell is gonna break loose:

thelibertycap
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May 20, 2015, 07:40:20 PM
 #24646

Not sure if game players want to pick an unnecessary fight with the government.

Sometimes I feel you should have some acid to relieve yourself of the irrational fear of government (it helps).

I have personally recommended acid to him many months ago. He could finally have a chance to see through his ego and perhaps give him real insight into all the things he now only thinks he understands. I think he is too old and scared anyway and really thinks he doesn't need it, lol.
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May 20, 2015, 07:55:27 PM
 #24647

TPTB, you and your handlers have 20 min to reverse this or all hell is gonna break loose:



looks like they're not gonna make it. poor boys.

we have confirmation of the non-confirmation.  with time, this should start dragging down the rest of the stock mkt.  it won't be a straight line and things will get quite volatile from here so watch out.
TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 08:08:43 PM
 #24648

TPTB_need_war, I'm trying to understand what exactly you're attempting to communicate.  Earlier you mentioned that it would be a good idea to "move more hardware value into [a] coin" and "give mined morsels" so that "no one sells and [the coins] instead circulate":

If you can move the worlds CPUs into your coin decentralized, you can beat Bitcoin because you can move more hardware value into your coin. Especially if you can give the mined morsels to be so small that no one sells and they instead circulate those morsels on a use-case that Bitcoin can't do.

Yet when it was later pointed out that 21 Inc. is doing exactly that, you now seem to talk negatively about the idea:

21 Inc...are going to give some incentive discounts and 25% share hiding all the complexity of mining from these dumb users who have no demand for mining and then try to teach them to use their Bitcoins to buy ringtones and upsell crap...

In one or two sentences, what exactly are you trying to say?

Users mining in an algorithm where pools are impossible is positive for decentralization of mining. Users possessing devices that mine without user control possible and which can not be stopped from sending the mining shares to the centralized server for the device provider is centralization of mining. Decentralization is permissionless freedom. Centralization is totalitarianism.

Note since PoW enables the latter case, PoW is no longer a viable choice for the consensus algorithm. The cartels will gain more than 50% of the hashrate virtually guaranteed because the efficiency of heat appliance mining is maximum and thus drives all independent mining (that isn't also a heat appliance) bankrupt.

jmw74
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May 20, 2015, 09:23:54 PM
 #24649

the only financial plan i've heard of is the 25/75% split btwn the consumer and 21, so the consumer is going to get spending coin.  and that would be business savvy for the companies b/c that allows consumers to purchase other services and features.  yes, the mining and hardware wallet will be on autopilot and already setup which makes it brain dead easy for even guys like you to use so you won't feel so bad for having not bought @ $13.

I can't quite tell but I think you're serious?

The consumer is going to get 25% of jack shit, and a bigger electricity bill. You can't possibly think this is a business model.

These ASICs are going to be nearly obsolete by the time anyone plugs them into a socket. They are not going to mine anything of value, certainly not enough to pay for any real world resources. A few satoshis is below the dust limit and unspendable.

Even if that were somehow overcome, do you really think that all the power outlets that people can use today for free, will still be free, once it becomes clear freeloaders will be making real profits by stealing power? Of course not. They're only free today because no one is trying to take advantage of them.

21's plan, as stated, is pure bullshit. The only question is whether they know it or not.
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May 20, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
 #24650

we have confirmation of the non-confirmation. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-20/one-these-things-not-other

A sign but not a given.

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ssmc2
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May 20, 2015, 09:40:51 PM
 #24651

TBTB is a master troll of the highest order. Please reply with extreme caution.
When you're a fanatic, anyone posting a contradictory opinion is a troll. This thread is full of Bitcoin fanatics who would rather sling ad hominems than learn.

That's cute. I'm here to learn from individuals who provide information worth gleaning something from, not ego driven, socially inept, paranoid schizophrenics spreading disinformation. Thanks though.
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May 20, 2015, 09:58:09 PM
 #24652

I tried to take your advice and make cordial and rational discussions. The result I got was saying I shouldn't post much.

I do think you've become a bit more approachable and chill since I first saw you post under the anonymint handle, so that's good to see Smiley You still seem very dogmatic, though.

Alas, I do also think that this suggestion might prove quite valuable:

I have personally recommended acid to him many months ago.

If you are truly concerned, you will make sure you study the solution when it is made available. As everything will be explained in layman's terminology in a convincing manner. Then you will be able to argue convincingly to yourself that I was correct.

I will continue to try and digest new information which comes my way with as open a mind as I can manage without my brains oozing out of my ears. If you produce something which turns out to be all that you claim I'll be happy to let it teach me lots of new things, just like Bitcoin has. I just hope you'll make it easy to navigate. I still shudder when I remember trying to navigate your self-referential hyper cross-linked information hell you used to produce  Cheesy


It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
coinits
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May 20, 2015, 10:52:56 PM
 #24653

TBTB is a master troll of the highest order. Please reply with extreme caution.

He is definitely NOT a troll. Highly intelligent but....

Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 25 btc per week.
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May 20, 2015, 11:01:48 PM
 #24654

the only financial plan i've heard of is the 25/75% split btwn the consumer and 21, so the consumer is going to get spending coin.  and that would be business savvy for the companies b/c that allows consumers to purchase other services and features.  yes, the mining and hardware wallet will be on autopilot and already setup which makes it brain dead easy for even guys like you to use so you won't feel so bad for having not bought @ $13.

I can't quite tell but I think you're serious?

The consumer is going to get 25% of jack shit, and a bigger electricity bill. You can't possibly think this is a business model.

These ASICs are going to be nearly obsolete by the time anyone plugs them into a socket. They are not going to mine anything of value, certainly not enough to pay for any real world resources. A few satoshis is below the dust limit and unspendable.

Even if that were somehow overcome, do you really think that all the power outlets that people can use today for free, will still be free, once it becomes clear freeloaders will be making real profits by stealing power? Of course not. They're only free today because no one is trying to take advantage of them.

21's plan, as stated, is pure bullshit. The only question is whether they know it or not.


That's true. Large scale mining is here to stay. For the apparent 21's plan, people tend to view only the power as input cost. As always, it is manpower (in the form of management), natural resources and capital. Those chips cost money. Each chip added to a board cost far more than the chip itself, and that principle is also applicable to areas of a larger chip.

I think that it is not feasable. But bitcoin technology in the form of an automatic economic actor inside a device could be useful provided there is something for the devices to trade. Could be anything. A wallet and an automatic trader inside every device. They could have something like that in mind.

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May 20, 2015, 11:19:32 PM
 #24655

These ASICs are going to be nearly obsolete by the time anyone plugs them into a socket.

I don't know about that. First gen, yeah probably. But sooner or later ASICs will hit Moore's law or worse like everything else and their usable life will be measured in years (2-5 or more) like other chips.

Quote
21's plan, as stated, is pure bullshit. The only question is whether they know it or not.

Probably some of both

Quote from: Erdogan
But bitcoin technology in the form of an automatic economic actor inside a device could be useful provided there is something for the devices to trade. Could be anything. A wallet and an automatic trader inside every device. They could have something like that in mind.

They said exactly that is part of what they are doing. So where's the big mystery here?
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May 20, 2015, 11:29:50 PM
 #24656

1) Monero is still based on mixing. There is still taint there since there are traces of history. This is not a real step forward like zerocoin (or zerocash) which fully erases all history.

In fact even Zerocash has timing and other related side-channel attacks, such as vulnerability to IP monitoring. If  you know when someone sent a transaction and you are doing IP monitoring you can likely identify the transaction, even if you can't see what is in the transaction.

If you limit yourself to passive analysis of the blockchain (and ignore timing on the blockchain) then Zerocash is opaque, but the tradeoff for that is much newer and dodgier crypto than Monero (plus the still-trusted setup; their proposal is to do multiparty, but if you aren't a participant, or weren't around to witness it, you are still trusting it). There was recently a serious break in one of the crypto tools used by Zerocash. If that had happened with a live coin in operation the entire coin could well (likely would have been) destroyed.

I don't know if Zerocash will be ready for prime time soon enough to succeed. I'll certainly hedge in it if a coin launches and doesn't get too much too wrong though.
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May 20, 2015, 11:32:50 PM
 #24657

the only financial plan i've heard of is the 25/75% split btwn the consumer and 21, so the consumer is going to get spending coin.

I'm pretty sure in the white paper-ish thing they posted it says that the split can be anything, and is up to the manufacturer of the devices. I don't remember if it explicitly said that 21 will be using 75/25 for any particular devices or if that was just an example, or earlier speculation from third parties.


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May 20, 2015, 11:34:37 PM
 #24658

These ASICs are going to be nearly obsolete by the time anyone plugs them into a socket.

I don't know about that. First gen, yeah probably. But sooner or later ASICs will hit Moore's law or worse like everything else and their usable life will be measured in years (2-5 or more) like other chips.

Quote
21's plan, as stated, is pure bullshit. The only question is whether they know it or not.

Probably some of both

Quote from: Erdogan
But bitcoin technology in the form of an automatic economic actor inside a device could be useful provided there is something for the devices to trade. Could be anything. A wallet and an automatic trader inside every device. They could have something like that in mind.

They said exactly that is part of what they are doing. So where's the big mystery here?


The mystery here is that devices could be paid for by mining. Maybe the general bitcoin society has misunderstood.

smooth
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May 20, 2015, 11:35:22 PM
 #24659

New Poll:

TPTB_need_war is:

You realize that any "poll" like this is itself trolling right?

If you don't like his posts, ignore him.

Personally I think sometimes he adds value and sometimes he doesn't.
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May 20, 2015, 11:38:35 PM
 #24660

Users mining in algorithm where pools are impossible is positive for decentralization of mining.

This is an interesting question. I've seen the counterargument that preventing pools increases the incentive for large farms (including, I suppose, the distributed sort of farms that involve devices in disparate locations but centrally controlled). That might be negative for decentralization of mining broadly, since at least with pools as they mostly exist today, the actual miners can switch pools (often cypherdoc makes this argument). I'm not sure.



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