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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2022644 times)
cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 05:07:21 PM
 #24621

the only financial plan i've heard of is the 25/75% split btwn the consumer and 21, so the consumer is going to get spending coin.  and that would be business savvy for the companies b/c that allows consumers to purchase other services and features.  yes, the mining and hardware wallet will be on autopilot and already setup which makes it brain dead easy

Meaning dumb users, who don't vote with their feet on pool centralization, meaning the mining is controlled by cartels and oligarchs as I stated.

right.  bringing on over a billion new miners is somehow going to be centralizing.  it won't matter if they're mining back to the device makers b/c there will be hundreds (?) of them either running their own pools (only takes a server) or farming it out to other pools, the # of which will proliferate to take up the new business resulting in decentralization.
Quote

I am sorry that your dismal logic skills demand that I be redundant.

for even guys like you to use so you won't feel so bad for having not bought @ $13.

I already told you what I am going to do to you and your NWO coin. I am not posturing. I am making a guarantee.

it's threats like this that convince me you are either a gvt or bank troll.  your insistence on an extreme world view smells of gvt hubris as to what you will do to punish us who believe in individual freedoms.

Quote

since your brain continues to be adversely affected by the MS,

Erroneous overconfidence and foolish pride comes before the downfall.

more threats
Quote

the difference btwn a USB mining stick is that it has to be plugged into a non-portable computer to mine.  and this means at home where you'd have to pay for your own electricity.  your reading comprehension failed to pick up the part about "portable" and "free".

Of course I didn't miss your point about stealing or parasiting electricity from public venues. We have some insight into your ethics now. We can be fairly certain that the price of the lattes will be increased accordingly.

it's not my ethics we're assessing here and i don't advocate anything.  it's what i think will happen based on my assessment of human behavior.  this is what will happen when you give ordinary ppl the proper economic incentives.  i mentioned yesterday that same feeling i got when viewing CPU/GPU mining videos back in 2011.  Bitcoin motivates ppl strongly.  you totally fail to grok this.
Quote

Your ignorance of the fact that smartphones have a USB port is pathetic.

wow, you are ignorant.  you didn't get what i said, did you?
Quote

your logic failure about a NWO & Digital Kill Switch scenario is that there is no reasonable financial elite apparatchik who would ever want to give up their greatest WMD, the printing press, in order to roll the dice on orchestrating a worldwide transition to such a dangerous (to them) tech such as Bitcoin.

Control of Bitcoin mining if anything solidifies their control over media, because they can Digital Kill Switch dissidents and competitors.

this sounds like gvt talk
Quote

 you fail to read history going back to the cypherpunks of the 1970-80's on the quest/evolution of digital, anonymous money.  Bitcoin is the culmination of that project.  not some NSA sponsored scheme.  sorry dude.  you need to up your meds.

Vacuous ideological rhetoric.

Prepare for you irrelevance. As guaranteed.

 Roll Eyes
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Perspicacious
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May 20, 2015, 05:11:01 PM
 #24622

New Poll:

TPTB_need_war is:

a. trolling
b. crazy
c. other
cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 05:19:55 PM
 #24623

bullshit

yeah, like Samsung, who stands to install maybe a billion new smartphones with this new model, is going to just give up all future profits so that a NWO can tank the worldwide economy and take us down into a new Great Depression.

sounds legit.
cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 05:27:14 PM
 #24624

i am stupid

hey TPTB, you need to ask your handlers to increase your pay by $235/13 or 18x to compensate you for the lost income since you showed up here in 2013.

or, a one time bonus to bring you up to where you need to be for your lost opportunity costs.
cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 05:37:59 PM
 #24625

did i say that Bitcoin really should want to go after this market?  this is the Big Kahuna:

It will mark another dark day for an industry trying to put past sins behind it and brings the total in penalties some big banks will pay for their traders allegedly manipulating the $5-trillion-a-day foreign exchange market to about $10 billion.

U.S. banks JPMorgan and Citigroup and Britain's Barclays and Royal Bank of Scotland are expected to plead guilty to criminal charges with the U.S. Department of Justice related to forex manipulation, people familiar with the matter said.

It would be unprecedented for the parent companies or main banking arms of so many major banks to plead guilty to criminal charges in a coordinated action. JPMorgan and Citigroup would be the first major U.S. banks to plead guilty to criminal charges in decades.

Swiss bank UBS is expected to avoid a criminal charge after getting immunity for alerting authorities to a possible problem. But it faces a criminal charge over the rigging of benchmark (Libor) interest rates, two people familiar with the matter said.


http://uk.businessinsider.com/r-five-big-banks-face-criminal-charges-and-5-billion-bill-over-fx-rigging-2015-5?r=US

game theory works.  UBS caught in the Prisoner's Dilemma.
rocks
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May 20, 2015, 05:54:36 PM
 #24626

Monero has lost ~90% of it's value vs. BTC since last September

Uh, no. You are misreading something.

My bad, I was looking at the market cap valuation which is off that much. The BTC price is only down ~75% from last Sept. Still not exactly great price performance....

You can't really blame XMR (which is priced against BTC, and more fundamentally trades relative to the greater crypto ecosystem) for BTC being down 75%. XMR is down relative to BTC over that time period (but up >100% since December, so why cherry pick starting points here?) but not anywhere near 90%.

Quote
I disagree here, there are multiple proposals on how to layer privacy oriented transactions on top of bitcoin. Some rely on shared secrets, some enable wallets to communicate and build distributed trustless mixing mechanisms (which is exactly what Monero says it does).

You are incorrect. That isn't exactly what Monero does. Monero doesn't do "distributed" mixing, it does counterparty-less mixing. Which means nothing distributed between any parties (or using any kind coordinating "node") and no shared secrets. There is no other proposed solution to do that. It can't be done in wallets.

1) Monero is still based on mixing. There is still taint there since there are traces of history. This is not a real step forward like zerocoin (or zerocash) which fully erases all history.

2) It is possible to implement in Bitcoin fully counterparty-less mixing, with no coordinated node and no shared secrets at the wallet level. Look at coinshuffle for an early example, I'm sure development on improving this will continue. Maybe I haven't looked closely enough, I fail to see any improvement Monero has over coinshuffle.

http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/coinshuffle.pdf
cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 06:07:27 PM
 #24627

lol, Bitcoin is not nearly this volatile:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-20/chinese-bubble-stock-instacrash-wipes-out-14-billion-chinas-2nd-richest-man

TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 06:22:28 PM
 #24628

the only financial plan i've heard of is the 25/75% split btwn the consumer and 21, so the consumer is going to get spending coin.  and that would be business savvy for the companies b/c that allows consumers to purchase other services and features.  yes, the mining and hardware wallet will be on autopilot and already setup which makes it brain dead easy

Meaning dumb users, who don't vote with their feet on pool centralization, meaning the mining is controlled by cartels and oligarchs as I stated.

right.  bringing on over a billion new miners is somehow going to be centralizing.  it won't matter if they're mining back to the device makers b/c there will be hundreds (?) of them either running their own pools (only takes a server) or farming it out to other pools, the # of which will proliferate to take up the new business resulting in decentralization.

How does the manufacturer get 75% as you said, if the user has the freedom to change which pool the device points to?

Whoops. Duh.

it's threats like this

I am not making a threat. I am making a guarantee. I rarely do this, because I hate vaporware and promising the future. But in this case, the outcome is so blatantly obvious, I can.

as to what you will do to punish us who believe in individual freedoms.

Your illogic leads you to fight against individual freedom. Thus you will destroy yourself. That is why it is easy to make a guarantee.

the difference btwn a USB mining stick is that it has to be plugged into a non-portable computer to mine.  and this means at home where you'd have to pay for your own electricity.  your reading comprehension failed to pick up the part about "portable" and "free".

Of course I didn't miss your point about stealing or parasiting electricity from public venues. We have some insight into your ethics now. We can be fairly certain that the price of the lattes will be increased accordingly.

it's not my ethics we're assessing here and i don't advocate anything.  it's what i think will happen based on my assessment of human behavior.

It would help if you had some actual experience instead of the Freudian slip of projecting your slimy ethics and incorrect economics on a reality that doesn't exist. I am here in the third world and charging is strictly not allowed unless you pay. And you will be charged more if there is a new class of phones that hogs electricity. My point is you always pay for what you get. You overpay in Starbucks $5 for a 20 cents drink, so you are not getting electricity for free.

you totally fail to grok this.

You don't grok that I grok all and including that you don't grok but think you do. This is known as the Dunning-Kruger effect.

the difference btwn a USB mining stick is that it has to be plugged into a non-portable computer to mine.  and this means at home where you'd have to pay for your own electricity.  your reading comprehension failed to pick up the part about "portable" and "free".
Your ignorance of the fact that smartphones have a USB port is pathetic.

wow, you are ignorant.  you didn't get what i said, did you?

You think so don't ya? Did you entertain all the logical possibilities? How about the one where the USB port exists and if there was a market demand for mining on portable devices then the USB sticks would be made compatible with these ports.

Users sophisticated enough to mine will do it properly and not try to slime around and parasite a few watts here and there. You entirely don't understand marketing demographics, opportunity cost, economies-of-scale, and tsuris. You view people as dispensible, masochistic, unoptimizing, zombie robots in your vision of an army of religious/faithful nodes supporting your delusional greed masquerading in your mind as altruistic (lie!).

21 Inc isn't creating a market demand for independent mining. They are going to give some incentive discounts and 25% share hiding all the complexity of mining from these dumb users who have no demand for mining and then try to teach them to use their Bitcoins to buy ringtones and upsell crap in their walled garden model (a la iPhone and Apple App Store), while putting the mining on auto-pilot sending 75% to the cartels.

They understand these users are unsophisticated and need hand holding so they will sell them a walled garden ecosystem built around Bitcoin micropayments. Likely even moving these payments offchain to Coinbase or Circle.

Can you waste some more of my time please and clutter the thread with more of your nonsense?

ErisDiscordia
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May 20, 2015, 06:23:45 PM
 #24629

I am hyper pissed off at you guys that you do not care that the world will be turned into a 1984 in your lifetime.

The Bitcoin community in general and people who frequent this thread in particular seem to be overwhelmingly wary of centralizing tendencies in government and possible 1984 scenarios. Just because many of us here are not convinced by your arguments about Bitcoin being a TPTB-engineered honeypot (or we might be too stupid to realize, as you might interpret it), doesn't mean we are cheering for a reptilian illuminati NWO clusterfuck, quite the opposite.

I am very aware that I have little to no technical knowledge to offer in this space. That is why I limit my activity to the one beneficial service I can provide: pointing out, that we are all allies in the intellectual fight against centralized one world government and in order to succeed, we need to leave our egos at the door, lest we just end up mimicking the struggle for becoming top-dog, alpha-males, claiming control over what people should do and think, which makes up the current structure of TPTB. We need discord for the decentralized agenda, so let's be friendly about it, shall we. Discord can be a lot of fun.

sidhujag & Pruden,

you are going to get f*cked.  get out now.  this one doesn't look like its coming back:



I have been following this graph you keep posting for a while now and I am really interested to see what (if anything) happens, once it breaks down below the support that is indicated.

I would actually appreciate some explanation as to why this particular chart is so important, because to be honest I don't understand its significance - I just like the pattern you have spotted Smiley

Keep up the good work.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 06:27:01 PM
 #24630

New Poll:

TPTB_need_war is:

a. trolling
b. crazy
c. other


Do you ever write anything that is not noise? Do you enjoy cluttering this thread with non-information?

You can resolve your problem by showing up here. I am waiting for you. Stop hiding behind your sockpuppet. I am not hiding.

cypherdoc
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May 20, 2015, 06:43:15 PM
 #24631

I am hyper pissed off at you guys that you do not care that the world will be turned into a 1984 in your lifetime.

The Bitcoin community in general and people who frequent this thread in particular seem to be overwhelmingly wary of centralizing tendencies in government and possible 1984 scenarios. Just because many of us here are not convinced by your arguments about Bitcoin being a TPTB-engineered honeypot (or we might be too stupid to realize, as you might interpret it), doesn't mean we are cheering for a reptilian illuminati NWO clusterfuck, quite the opposite.

I am very aware that I have little to no technical knowledge to offer in this space. That is why I limit my activity to the one beneficial service I can provide: pointing out, that we are all allies in the intellectual fight against centralized one world government and in order to succeed, we need to leave our egos at the door, lest we just end up mimicking the struggle for becoming top-dog, alpha-males, claiming control over what people should do and think, which makes up the current structure of TPTB. We need discord for the decentralized agenda, so let's be friendly about it, shall we. Discord can be a lot of fun.

sidhujag & Pruden,

you are going to get f*cked.  get out now.  this one doesn't look like its coming back:



I have been following this graph you keep posting for a while now and I am really interested to see what (if anything) happens, once it breaks down below the support that is indicated.

I would actually appreciate some explanation as to why this particular chart is so important, because to be honest I don't understand its significance - I just like the pattern you have spotted Smiley

Keep up the good work.

Dow Theory is a particular form of technical analysis based on a presumed linkage btwn 2 well known and followed indices, the Dow Industrials and the Dow Transports.  not everyone agrees that it is useful, as in all techniques, but i personally use it along with others.  i think it is important since it is so well known and followed.  if the Transports aren't following a rally in the Industrials that shows that there is a non-confirmation or divergence warning of underlying, underappreciated problems in the real economy.  can't have true industrial production if the transportation companies aren't moving the resources.  it also fits nicely if you believe that there is a PPT that manipulates the small set of companies that comprise the Dow Industrials upwards on a regular basis w/o having to pump money into all stocks across the board.  lotsa ppl focus on the Dow Industrials.  i think this is true.  everyone i know, from taxi cab drivers, to sophisticated money managers follow the Industrials on their phones for signs of trouble in the economy.  yeah, the SPX would probably be a better indicator but like i said, manipulators should theoretically manipulate the easiest manipulable indices possible and that would be the Industrials.  anyways here is more info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_theory
TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 06:46:56 PM
 #24632

2) It is possible to implement in Bitcoin fully counterparty-less mixing, with no coordinated node and no shared secrets at the wallet level. Look at coinshuffle for an early example, I'm sure development on improving this will continue. Maybe I haven't looked closely enough, I fail to see any improvement Monero has over coinshuffle.

http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/coinshuffle.pdf

Do you really think you are technically qualified to argue when both smooth and I already told you it is impossible offchain. Dunning-Kruger! Don't ya know we thought about this in depth, debating it ad nauseum in multiple threads and beat that horse to death. We understand fundamentally why it is impossible offchain. And we don't have time to go sorting through dozens of more nonsense whitepapers to isolate the flaw in each of them. We already did that numerous times for various proposals.

You will win the propaganda of attrition if that is your desire to delude yourself and not trust experts. We rarely use the word "impossible". Smooth is even more careful than I am with that word.

Btw, CoinShuffle has the same weakness that I explained about CoinJoin. In the CoinJoin thread, gmaxell et al said if the dishonest user could be tracked, then it could be blacklisted. I retorted that with anonymous mixing, no one can be permanently blacklisted. Duh! And they have high IQs  Huh

ErisDiscordia
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May 20, 2015, 06:49:09 PM
 #24633

Dow Theory is a particular form of technical analysis based on a presumed linkage btwn 2 well known and followed indices, the Dow Industrials and the Dow Transports.  not everyone agrees that it is useful, as in all techniques, but i personally use it along with others.  i think it is important since it is so well known and followed.  if the Transports aren't following a rally in the Industrials that shows that there is a non-confirmation or divergence warning of underlying, underappreciated problems in the real economy.  can't have true industrial production if the transportation companies aren't moving the resources.  it also fits nicely if you believe that there is a PPT that manipulates the small set of companies that comprise the Dow Industrials upwards on a regular basis w/o having to pump money into all stocks across the board.  lotsa ppl focus on the Dow Industrials.  i think this is true.  everyone i know, from taxi cab drivers, to sophisticated money managers follow the Industrials on their phones for signs of trouble in the economy.  yeah, the SPX would probably be a better indicator but like i said, manipulators should theoretically manipulate the easiest manipulable indices possible and that would be the Industrials.  anyways here is more info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_theory

Thank you for elaborating, I'll read up some more about it.


It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
rocks
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May 20, 2015, 06:50:11 PM
 #24634

2) It is possible to implement in Bitcoin fully counterparty-less mixing, with no coordinated node and no shared secrets at the wallet level. Look at coinshuffle for an early example, I'm sure development on improving this will continue. Maybe I haven't looked closely enough, I fail to see any improvement Monero has over coinshuffle.

http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/coinshuffle.pdf

Do you really think you are technically qualified to argue when both smooth and I already told you it is impossible offchain. Dunning-Kruger! Don't ya know we thought about this in depth, debating it ad nauseum in multiple threads and beat that horse to death. We understand fundamentally why it is impossible offchain. And we don't have time to go sorting through dozens of more nonsense whitepapers to isolate the flaw in each of them. We already did that numerous times for various proposals.

You will win the propaganda of attrition if that is your desire to delude yourself and not trust experts. We rarely use the word "impossible". Smooth is even more careful than I am with that word.

Briefly un-ignored you since I have no one else on ignore.

Your post presents zero statements or facts, it is simply a string of nonsense stating that 1) you are right because you are amazing, 2) I am unqualified to have a viewpoint and 3) you won't bother to read nonsense whitepapers presented.

#1 and #2 I can live with, there are lots of immature people in the world.

#3 I can not. Your refusal to investigate new information, information that many peers have looked at and support, is why you are very limited in your understanding of the world and why you do not understand most of what you pontificate about. It is also why you are entirely unqualified to have viewpoints.

Welcome back to being my only ignore.

Oh, and not that it matters to me, but you have no idea who I am, what my qualifications are or what I've done, I feel pretty confident I'm more "qualified" to have viewpoints here than you for what's that worth.

You have polluted this thread and diminished it's usefulness, I have more valuable ways to spend my time, so I'm off for a while till TPTB finds the next shiny object.
TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 06:51:55 PM
 #24635

bullshit

yeah, like Samsung, who stands to install maybe a billion new smartphones with this new model, is going to just give up all future profits so that a NWO can tank the worldwide economy and take us down into a new Great Depression.

sounds legit.

You have a marvelous noise conflation engine in that void you call your brain.

If Samsung manufactures a billion phones for this 21 Inc, then 75% of the coins go to Samsung (a cartel and oligarchy member) then how did Samsung not profit?

Cartels and oligarchies are built for profits. They do destroy their markets over time, but that is an ancillary point.

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May 20, 2015, 06:53:35 PM
 #24636

Your post presents zero statements or facts, it is simply a string of nonsense...

Eat your ignorance:

Btw, CoinShuffle has the same weakness that I explained about CoinJoin. In the CoinJoin thread, gmaxell et al said if the dishonest user could be tracked, then it could be blacklisted. I retorted that with anonymous mixing, no one can be blacklisted. Duh! And they have high IQs  Huh

Peter R
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May 20, 2015, 06:55:26 PM
 #24637

TPTB_need_war, I'm trying to understand what exactly you're attempting to communicate.  Earlier you mentioned that it would be a good idea to "move more hardware value into [a] coin" and "give mined morsels" so that "no one sells and [the coins] instead circulate":

If you can move the worlds CPUs into your coin decentralized, you can beat Bitcoin because you can move more hardware value into your coin. Especially if you can give the mined morsels to be so small that no one sells and they instead circulate those morsels on a use-case that Bitcoin can't do.

Yet when it was later pointed out that 21 Inc. is doing exactly that, you now seem to talk negatively about the idea:

21 Inc...are going to give some incentive discounts and 25% share hiding all the complexity of mining from these dumb users who have no demand for mining and then try to teach them to use their Bitcoins to buy ringtones and upsell crap...

In one or two sentences, what exactly are you trying to say?

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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May 20, 2015, 06:56:34 PM
 #24638

TBTB is a master troll of the highest order. Please reply with extreme caution.
TPTB_need_war
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May 20, 2015, 07:01:42 PM
 #24639

I am hyper pissed off at you guys that you do not care that the world will be turned into a 1984 in your lifetime.

The Bitcoin community in general and people who frequent this thread in particular seem to be overwhelmingly wary of centralizing tendencies in government and possible 1984 scenarios. Just because many of us here are not convinced by your arguments about Bitcoin being a TPTB-engineered honeypot (or we might be too stupid to realize, as you might interpret it), doesn't mean we are cheering for a reptilian illuminati NWO clusterfuck, quite the opposite.

All I've read here in this thread is either nonsense, denial, or justification because we won't have a universal store-of-value and global ledger if we don't allow the culprits of our slavery aid us in getting the dumb masses into Bitcon.

I am very aware that I have little to no technical knowledge to offer in this space. That is why I limit my activity to the one beneficial service I can provide: pointing out, that we are all allies in the intellectual fight against centralized one world government and in order to succeed, we need to leave our egos at the door, lest we just end up mimicking the struggle for becoming top-dog, alpha-males, claiming control over what people should do and think, which makes up the current structure of TPTB. We need discord for the decentralized agenda, so let's be friendly about it, shall we. Discord can be a lot of fun.

I tried to take your advice and make cordial and rational discussions. The result I got was saying I shouldn't post much.

If you are truly concerned, you will make sure you study the solution when it is made available. As everything will be explained in layman's terminology in a convincing manner. Then you will be able to argue convincingly to yourself that I was correct.

I can't do that sort of professionalized elucidation in this forum posting format.

Brilliantrocket
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May 20, 2015, 07:02:45 PM
 #24640

TBTB is a master troll of the highest order. Please reply with extreme caution.
When you're a fanatic, anyone posting a contradictory opinion is a troll. This thread is full of Bitcoin fanatics who would rather sling ad hominems than learn.

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