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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805116 times)
tvbcof
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May 31, 2015, 07:30:08 PM
 #25221

...
You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with Hearn and Andresen.

I don't have anything against these two as people but they are wholly mainstream and by every indication they love big brother at the very least.  I find this out-of-band with a lot of the early adopters of Bitcoin and where I believe the center-mass should be in order to carry Bitcoin forward as a viable and valuable feature of our world.


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cypherdoc
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May 31, 2015, 08:55:50 PM
 #25222

...
You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with Hearn and Andresen.

I don't have anything against these two as people but they are wholly mainstream and by every indication they love big brother at the very least.  I find this out-of-band with a lot of the early adopters of Bitcoin and where I believe the center-mass should be in order to carry Bitcoin forward as a viable and valuable feature of our world.



well, the half woman half man dude is definitely more out there btwn the 3. 

Hearns has made some outrageous statish-like proposals in the past.  never could reconcile that.  but no doubt he's smart as hell.

Gavin can't and shouldn't be blamed for talking to the CIA back in the day.  it was purely by request on their part, i'm convinced.  what is with guys like you that hate him so much?  i'm seriously asking what is the beef b/c i can't identify one really.
iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


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May 31, 2015, 09:24:35 PM
 #25223

So iCE. Are you working for Blockstream?

I'm working for Nick Szabo.  That's why I asked you to calm down and stop exaggerating.

Blockstream will hire me right after recruiting Mircea.  Any second now...   Cheesy

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

Thanks doc, I'll take that a compliment.

Mircea clowns for the same reason we do, entertainment.  His IQ is probably higher than either of ours and MPEX has never been hacked, much less regulated.

Remember the time he clowned the SEC?  Hysterical.

Quote
http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/

Dear Mr. Popescu

My name is Daphna Waxman and I am an attorney with the Enforcement Division of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission.

The Commission staff would like to speak with you concerning the listing of shares of SatoshiDICE on MPEx.

It just gets better from there...  Grin

You have fun aligning with Gavin the pointy-haired boss and his Catbert minion Mike Hearn.

After watching the debate and considering the evidence I'm more comfortable with the consensus of the core devs, which is to not hard fork to 20mb blocks at this time.

Bitcon must eschew bloating horizontally and scale up orthogonally.  Skyscrapers of settlement and storage, not sprawl and spam.  Ultimate quality, not trade-offs and compromises for anticipated quantity.

Plenty of room in the side/tree/alt chains for Frappuccinos and pizza.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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May 31, 2015, 09:48:29 PM
 #25224

So iCE. Are you working for Blockstream?

I'm working for Nick Szabo.  That's why I asked you to calm down and stop exaggerating.

Blockstream will hire me right after recruiting Mircea.  Any second now...   Cheesy

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

Thanks doc, I'll take that a compliment.

Mircea clowns for the same reason we do, entertainment.  His IQ is probably higher than either of ours and MPEX has never been hacked, much less regulated.

Remember the time he clowned the SEC?  Hysterical.

Quote
http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/

Dear Mr. Popescu

My name is Daphna Waxman and I am an attorney with the Enforcement Division of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission.

The Commission staff would like to speak with you concerning the listing of shares of SatoshiDICE on MPEx.

actually, that was impressive and kudos to him for the hutzpah to have done that.  i guess i could learn to admire a transsex.

ultimately though, i think you're making a mistake by not facilitating dissemination of Bitcoin to as many ppl worldwide outside the jurisdiction of the US for security reasons.  b/c unfortunately, i view our USG as the biggest threat to Bitcoin and the more enemies hands it gets into the more resilient and secure for all it will be.  you should want that from what you want as a universal money.  it can't be a digital gold equivalent otherwise.  it's the little African kid who will either use it for a meal or run guns for the Junta that will actually secure Bitcoin the most just out of sheer usage and demand.  at least, that's how i see it.
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May 31, 2015, 10:29:47 PM
 #25225


Plenty of room in the side/tree/alt chains for Frappuccinos and pizza.

+1 MB block size :-)
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May 31, 2015, 10:38:17 PM
 #25226

So iCE. Are you working for Blockstream?

I'm working for Nick Szabo.  That's why I asked you to calm down and stop exaggerating.

Blockstream will hire me right after recruiting Mircea.  Any second now...   Cheesy

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

Thanks doc, I'll take that a compliment.

Mircea clowns for the same reason we do, entertainment.  His IQ is probably higher than either of ours and MPEX has never been hacked, much less regulated.

Remember the time he clowned the SEC?  Hysterical.

Quote
http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/

Dear Mr. Popescu

My name is Daphna Waxman and I am an attorney with the Enforcement Division of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission.

The Commission staff would like to speak with you concerning the listing of shares of SatoshiDICE on MPEx.

actually, that was impressive and kudos to him for the hutzpah to have done that.  i guess i could learn to admire a transsex.

ultimately though, i think you're making a mistake by not facilitating dissemination of Bitcoin to as many ppl worldwide outside the jurisdiction of the US for security reasons.  b/c unfortunately, i view our USG as the biggest threat to Bitcoin and the more enemies hands it gets into the more resilient and secure for all it will be.  you should want that from what you want as a universal money.  it can't be a digital gold equivalent otherwise.  it's the little African kid who will either use it for a meal or run guns for the Junta that will actually secure Bitcoin the most just out of sheer usage and demand.  at least, that's how i see it.

1/ how can one view the USG as the biggest threat for bitcoin and yet blindly follow one MIT-paid-developper?
2/ enough with the little african meme please. lets be serious for a moment.
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May 31, 2015, 10:45:53 PM
 #25227

So iCE. Are you working for Blockstream?

I'm working for Nick Szabo.  That's why I asked you to calm down and stop exaggerating.

Blockstream will hire me right after recruiting Mircea.  Any second now...   Cheesy

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

Thanks doc, I'll take that a compliment.

Mircea clowns for the same reason we do, entertainment.  His IQ is probably higher than either of ours and MPEX has never been hacked, much less regulated.

Remember the time he clowned the SEC?  Hysterical.

Quote
http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/

Dear Mr. Popescu

My name is Daphna Waxman and I am an attorney with the Enforcement Division of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission.

The Commission staff would like to speak with you concerning the listing of shares of SatoshiDICE on MPEx.

actually, that was impressive and kudos to him for the hutzpah to have done that.  i guess i could learn to admire a transsex.

ultimately though, i think you're making a mistake by not facilitating dissemination of Bitcoin to as many ppl worldwide outside the jurisdiction of the US for security reasons.  b/c unfortunately, i view our USG as the biggest threat to Bitcoin and the more enemies hands it gets into the more resilient and secure for all it will be.  you should want that from what you want as a universal money.  it can't be a digital gold equivalent otherwise.  it's the little African kid who will either use it for a meal or run guns for the Junta that will actually secure Bitcoin the most just out of sheer usage and demand.  at least, that's how i see it.

1/ how can one view the USG as the biggest threat for bitcoin and yet blindly follow one MIT-paid-developper?

i know it's somehow fashionable to link MIT Gavin pay to the USG but i don't see it.  even if they do have their hands in places within MIT, i seriously doubt Joi Ito or Gavin would be a participant to anything anti-Bitcoin.
Quote

2/ enough with the little african meme please. lets be serious for a moment.

why?  i quite like that meme.  seriously.

if you take a moment to think about it, other than a Muslim terrorist, who in this world would be least likely for the USG be able to influence when it comes down to monetary matters?  why, a little African kid!  whoa, how profound!  seriously.
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May 31, 2015, 10:50:27 PM
 #25228

...
You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with Hearn and Andresen.

I don't have anything against these two as people but they are wholly mainstream and by every indication they love big brother at the very least.  I find this out-of-band with a lot of the early adopters of Bitcoin and where I believe the center-mass should be in order to carry Bitcoin forward as a viable and valuable feature of our world.


well, the half woman half man dude is definitely more out there btwn the 3. 

Hearns has made some outrageous statish-like proposals in the past.  never could reconcile that.  but no doubt he's smart as hell.

Apparently you could reconcile that.

Gavin can't and shouldn't be blamed for talking to the CIA back in the day.  it was purely by request on their part, i'm convinced.  what is with guys like you that hate him so much?  i'm seriously asking what is the beef b/c i can't identify one really.

I was one of the minority who supported Gavin's visit with the CIA.  Later, when he was invited to rub elbows with the CFR, I requested one simple and obvious thing; tell them that the community which he was the putative leader of didn't trust them and wished complete transparency.  Gavin would not even entertain this suggestion.  I think it a very strong hypothesis that Gavin sees Bitcoin as not much more than his lottery ticket to win the hunger games, and one that pretty much fell into his lap.  The hypothesis grows ever stronger in observing his actions as the years drift by.


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May 31, 2015, 11:27:02 PM
 #25229

...
You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with clown Mircea. Actually I don't have anything against him but he acts like one.

You got a lot of balls aligning yourself with Hearn and Andresen.

I don't have anything against these two as people but they are wholly mainstream and by every indication they love big brother at the very least.  I find this out-of-band with a lot of the early adopters of Bitcoin and where I believe the center-mass should be in order to carry Bitcoin forward as a viable and valuable feature of our world.


well, the half woman half man dude is definitely more out there btwn the 3.  

Hearns has made some outrageous statish-like proposals in the past.  never could reconcile that.  but no doubt he's smart as hell.

Apparently you could reconcile that.

Gavin can't and shouldn't be blamed for talking to the CIA back in the day.  it was purely by request on their part, i'm convinced.  what is with guys like you that hate him so much?  i'm seriously asking what is the beef b/c i can't identify one really.

I was one of the minority who supported Gavin's visit with the CIA.  Later, when he was invited to rub elbows with the CFR, I requested one simple and obvious thing; tell them that the community which he was the putative leader of didn't trust them and wished complete transparency.  Gavin would not even entertain this suggestion.  I think it a very strong hypothesis that Gavin sees Bitcoin as not much more than his lottery ticket to win the hunger games, and one that pretty much fell into his lap.  The hypothesis grows ever stronger in observing his actions as the years drift by.



oh c'mon.  is that all u got?  if i were him i wouldn't say that either.  why let your enemy know what you're thinking?  lure them in, let them get comfortable.  why the hell should he listen to you anyways?

i see the exact opposite.  and i've listened to just about everything he's ever said about Bitcoin.  he's very pro-Bitcoin first principles.

btw, all you guys here keep banging on Gavin's ulterior motives.  maybe it's time i bring up the core dev Blockstream block's motivations here once again.  let me remind you; they are a for-profit, gvt registered, $21M conflicted, high powered gvt-captured investor driven, 10x expected return demanded, command and control insinuated core dev cabal, with a choke hold on Bitcoin development using stalling tactics to destroy all further growth and decentralization, employing all out diversionary measures so as to further their pet project called sidechains, at tremendous personal billion dollar windfalls to themselves in the form of exercised stock options and lucrative pay contracts.   there.  how's that feel?

admittedly over the top, yes, but i'm tired of your guys slash and burn techniques.
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May 31, 2015, 11:32:06 PM
 #25230

if you'll recall.  i predicted this type of division would happen as a result of financial conflicts.

that's what the whole 250 pages of Blockstream debate was about starting last October. 
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May 31, 2015, 11:57:17 PM
 #25231

let me ask you this.

if 20MB blocks were implemented today, would you think the price jumps to $460/BTC today? you'd say no, i'd bet.
but you'd have to question why not b/c of this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg5882283#msg5882283

so if you don't believe the price would jump to that $460 (20x), why would you think the block size would immediately jump to 20MB?
the answer is it won't. it will slowly grow over time, maybe years. and if so, Nielsen's Law should prevent any problems.
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June 01, 2015, 02:38:20 AM
 #25232

let me ask you this.

if 20MB blocks were implemented today, would you think the price jumps to $460/BTC today? you'd say no, i'd bet.
but you'd have to question why not b/c of this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg5882283#msg5882283

so if you don't believe the price would jump to that $4600 (20x), why would you think the block size would immediately jump to 20MB?
the answer is it won't. it will slowly grow over time, maybe years. and if so, Nielsen's Law should prevent any problems.

there i go again with those stupid zeros  Grin
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June 01, 2015, 04:59:43 AM
 #25233

Eleuthria from BTCGuild thinks we need an increase:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/370rko/21_inc_engineer_everyone_assumes_humans_will_be/crjfnpg?context=3
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June 01, 2015, 06:38:10 AM
 #25234


And Rusty Russell offers a stepped increase:

Quote
Countries which had best bandwidth grew about 17% a year, so I think that’s the best model for future growth patterns (China is now where the US was 7 years ago, for example).

If bandwidth is the main centralization concern, you’ll want block growth below 15%. That implies we could jump the cap to 3MB next year, and 15% thereafter. Or if you’re less conservative, 3.5MB next year, and 17% there after.

http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=493

This would be tight, but a hell of a lot better than doing nothing. All he needs to do is convince his Blockstream colleagues and the basis for a compromise exists.

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June 01, 2015, 02:41:57 PM
 #25235

Another bullish chart:



In some way this one has "excluded the bubbles" from the trendline:

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June 01, 2015, 03:05:38 PM
 #25236


And Rusty Russell offers a stepped increase:

Quote
Countries which had best bandwidth grew about 17% a year, so I think that’s the best model for future growth patterns (China is now where the US was 7 years ago, for example).

If bandwidth is the main centralization concern, you’ll want block growth below 15%. That implies we could jump the cap to 3MB next year, and 15% thereafter. Or if you’re less conservative, 3.5MB next year, and 17% there after.

http://rusty.ozlabs.org/?p=493

This would be tight, but a hell of a lot better than doing nothing. All he needs to do is convince his Blockstream colleagues and the basis for a compromise exists.

there's a clue here.  and it's not good news.

/u/nullc still thinks he was right in banning Ver & Matonis despite an overwhelming community opinion to the contrary.  the community's only course of action at the time, which has proven very successful and stood the test of time, was to "fork" away from PressCenter.org and move to another website.  which has now become the de facto go to place.
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June 01, 2015, 03:12:51 PM
 #25237

there's a clue here.  and it's not good news.

/u/nullc still thinks he was right in banning Ver & Matonis despite an overwhelming community opinion to the contrary.  the community's only course of action at the time, which has proven very successful and stood the test of time, was to "fork" away from PressCenter.org and move to another website.  which has now become the de facto go to place.
I believe the Blockstream crew is going to learn the hard way that there's no such thing as tenure in Bitcoin.
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June 01, 2015, 03:16:33 PM
 #25238

Another bullish chart:

and it's true.  i'm confident Bitcoin is about to break out.

while the debate here and over on Reddit seem contentious and irreconcilable, i've never felt more liberated by arguing what i think is right for Bitcoin despite knowing i might harm the short term price.  guys like Pruden thinks he can get under my skin with comments like this:


And in case you haven't noticed, bitcoin price has started to move, and it's not in your preferred direction.

he's wrong.  what we're witnessing is creative destruction.
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June 01, 2015, 03:24:43 PM
 #25239

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643235.msg11506171#new

BTC: 1K9atu5zgz7izCMAynk5adBJ8Qn2YgS6nT
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June 01, 2015, 03:27:47 PM
 #25240

there's a clue here.  and it's not good news.

/u/nullc still thinks he was right in banning Ver & Matonis despite an overwhelming community opinion to the contrary.  the community's only course of action at the time, which has proven very successful and stood the test of time, was to "fork" away from PressCenter.org and move to another website.  which has now become the de facto go to place.
I believe the Blockstream crew is going to learn the hard way that there's no such thing as tenure in Bitcoin.

in a way, i also see this as an opportunity which can be very bullish long term.

if Gavin and XT are successful, and i think they will be, there is a real opportunity to clean house and leave the garbage outside.  we can selectively pick that which we wish to retain, maybe pwiullie & Wlad, but the rest can be shipped off to the junkyard.

plus, it will give plenty of new fresh minds an opportunity to become core devs with all the perks that go along with it.  and there are plenty even if you're essentially volunteering.  i wouldn't expect them to, but my pt still stands.  there's prestige, access, status, and lucrative consulting opportunities that abound.  there are plenty of brilliant minds out there that have been spurned by the current group and would love to step into their shoes.  it also probably will set a precedent that large blocks of core devs shouldn't go off and start a for-profit company that introduces massive conflicts of interest into the dev process. 

after all, Bitcoin has evolved to that of a public good.
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