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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2008889 times)
cypherdoc
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November 30, 2012, 08:03:23 PM
 #3701

Here's the chart to look at:



Long-term downtrend intact.

oh really?  why?
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adamstgBit
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November 30, 2012, 08:34:32 PM
 #3702

Here's the chart to look at:



Long-term downtrend intact.

oh really?  why?
rally failed to reach new a high?

I have to agree with this. Gold/Silver will defiantly be going down, either cuz gold will go down or silver will go up or both  Tongue

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November 30, 2012, 08:52:25 PM
 #3703

Silver is really pulling away from Gold the last few weeks...

Anyone think its possible that Gold goes under $1500 while Silver makes new all time highs above $50?

Yes.  Gold:Silver is way high.

In my limited experience with the commodities market, Gold and Silver have almost traded in lock step.  Its a very strange feeling that I get when I see Silver diverging from Gold...

I have been confident in my bullish Gold predictions here mostly due to the bullish features of Silver... now it seems that the two PMs may separate.  Good thing Im only actually invested in Silver and BTC, no Gold for me at the moment Cheesy.

just when you think you're on to something:



Buying opportunity Wink  Im not even close to giving up on Silver.  Its not even under the low from 2 days ago...

What we are seeing in Silver right now is very similar to the price action from end of July/Aug.
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November 30, 2012, 09:05:32 PM
 #3704

I started looking into stacking silver, but I could never bring myself to do it. for 2 reasons

1) I feel the whole gold / silver "movement" is fueled by a fear of inflation and TOTAL economic collapses. in which case SURE your gold coins will buy you stuff... but a bullet and a bag of rice, might cost 1 gold coin... so maybe just buy the bullet/rice if your afraid of TOTAL economic collapses? ( I just keep my pantry full these days... saves me money Smiley )

2) Bitcoin!  Cheesy


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November 30, 2012, 10:00:17 PM
 #3705

Here's the chart to look at:

...

Long-term downtrend intact.

oh really?  why?

The world isn't ending, inflation is inevitable, and aside from Bitcoin the precious metals offer the best wealth protection possible. By holding silver while the ratio declines, it's possible to completely avoid fiat exposure. At the same time, gains can be made by trading among the PMs, particularly exchanging decreasing amounts of silver for increasing amounts of gold.

Platinum gained a much greater amount than gold/silver during November. If some were being held, it could be traded now at a decent profit. With a reasonably sized pool of holdings, this spread trading is much more reliable than equities or most currencies right now. There's only one layer of separation between the owner and the asset being traded when dealing with commodities.

As long as the GSR continues its descent, the ratio spread trade will produce phenomenally reliable returns.
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November 30, 2012, 11:44:55 PM
 #3706


The world isn't ending, inflation is inevitable, and aside from Bitcoin the precious metals offer the best wealth protection possible. ...



Why not farmland, or income-producing real-estate (eg, cash-flow positive after a fixed-rate mortgage)? Seems being cash-flow positive on fixed-rate debt on a hard-asset that's likely already gone through the majority of its bubble-popping is a better long-term inflation hedge than PMs (whose current prices seem dependent on a likelihood of them becoming a component of a future world-currency, which may or may not happen in our lifetimes).


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Cryptoasset rankings and metrics for investors: http://onchainfx.com
miscreanity
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December 01, 2012, 03:07:27 AM
 #3707

Why not farmland, or income-producing real-estate (eg, cash-flow positive after a fixed-rate mortgage)?

Those are ideal revenue stream sources, but they're not good forms of wealth preservation - especially now. Two different purposes.

Imagine having to move your assets. What do you do with a building, or land? If in a geopolitically unstable region (I consider the US & Europe low to moderately unstable, trending toward highly unstable), the margins from a productive asset might be heavily reduced to a point of being net negative, or it could be removed from your possession.

With the potential for rules being changed overnight, mobility is very valuable. Items that are portable and have the greatest wealth/value density form a mobile, distributable insurance policy.
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December 01, 2012, 04:08:04 AM
 #3708

Why not farmland, or income-producing real-estate (eg, cash-flow positive after a fixed-rate mortgage)?

Those are ideal revenue stream sources, but they're not good forms of wealth preservation - especially now. Two different purposes.

Imagine having to move your assets. What do you do with a building, or land? If in a geopolitically unstable region (I consider the US & Europe low to moderately unstable, trending toward highly unstable), the margins from a productive asset might be heavily reduced to a point of being net negative, or it could be removed from your possession.

With the potential for rules being changed overnight, mobility is very valuable. Items that are portable and have the greatest wealth/value density form a mobile, distributable insurance policy.


Agreed that they're not ideal in a very unstable political climate, but short of picking up and moving one's family to a jurisdiction with less political risk (tough to measure more than a couple years out anyway), is there really a better option for wealth-*building*? Additionally, in the sufficiently-stable political scenario, such assets should be nicely floored by the cash-flow, whereas PMs are only floored by their production cost (which is much less, percentage-wise).

I think if one is living in the US or EU, ya kinda have to either risk it on productive assets (with *some* stash of PMs and BTC in case of a 5x-100x rise) or go somewhere else. Putting the *majority* of one's wealth into PMs in an effort to build and preserve long-term seems sub-optimal, or at least quite risky.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't be too surprised if gold is $5k/oz in a few years either; I just think that if you're committed to remaining in the US, the play with the best risk-reward is hard assets that generate current cash-flow.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Cryptoasset rankings and metrics for investors: http://onchainfx.com
bracek
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December 01, 2012, 11:23:04 AM
 #3709

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZaUJrmHwi0
waspoza
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December 02, 2012, 02:40:04 PM
 #3710

Good news for silver: http://www.goldmoney.com/gold-research/alasdair-macleod/the-coming-silver-price-eruption.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
molecular
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December 02, 2012, 06:09:41 PM
 #3711


for those that don't like to watch, here some pix from vid:


gold weekly


gold monthly

silver:


silver weekly


silver monthy

Gregory Mannarino says he doubled down on his gold/silver investment (assuming physical) and there will be an explosive move once we break above the previous high of his little pattern there ("these charts are a language")

Thoughts?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
silverbox
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December 02, 2012, 06:12:30 PM
 #3712


I got a semi when I read this. Wink
cypherdoc
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December 02, 2012, 06:25:34 PM
 #3713

i watched it.  is that guy someone you really value?
bracek
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December 02, 2012, 06:45:23 PM
 #3714

i watched it.  is that guy someone you really value?


Who cares about the guy ?
Charts are much prettier than him Smiley
miscreanity
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December 03, 2012, 05:11:07 AM
 #3715

USD now under 80.

Gold, silver have not broken down.

Bitcoin supply remains tight despite a large pool of ownership.
cypherdoc
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December 04, 2012, 05:55:13 AM
 #3716

The Grind continues.
cypherdoc
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December 04, 2012, 06:02:36 AM
 #3717

Update:

Bitcoin:  +135%

Gold:  +1%

Difference:  +134% advantage Bitcoin!

GPL:  -16% silverbox long

GG:  +17% cypherdoc short  Wink
silverbox
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December 04, 2012, 01:05:55 PM
 #3718

Update:

Bitcoin:  +135%

Gold:  +1%

Difference:  +134% advantage Bitcoin!

GPL:  -16% silverbox long

GG:  +17% cypherdoc short  Wink

Here we go again..  Where did you post your initial position in GG?? hmm??  I can pick some random thing and say that I opened a position in the past and that I'm showing a profit as well....   The only thing that you concretely stated when you opened the position and then stated when you closed you LOST money on..  
Fcx35x10
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December 04, 2012, 01:32:44 PM
 #3719

it's about time gold prices start dropping! bitcoin value should increase hopefully with the help of the block reward halved
miscreanity
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December 04, 2012, 05:06:19 PM
 #3720

From KWN:

Quote from: Robert Fitzwilson
Suppression will be with us until the powerful acquire and confiscate as much of the metals as possible, and then the currency will be reset.  Trillions of wealth will move from holders of paper wealth to those entities holding gold, silver and energy assets.

... and Bitcoin Smiley

It's a game. There is an illusion masking the gold pricing mechanism; it is the same one obscuring the fundamentals that are supporting Bitcoin. It's a war of attrition, and whoever blinks first, loses. Time is on gold's side (and Bitcoin, silver, etc).

Quote from: Eric Sprott
... we ended up buying about 47 times more silver than gold, but it’s only available 7/1 for investment because most silver has to go into industrial uses.

At a GSR of 1:7 a silver holder would have about 720% more purchasing power than there is at 1:51 today. If the ratio does fall that far, averaging down every 10, and finally at 7, there would still be well over 300% gain. Aside from Bitcoin, and perhaps some other less certain investments, silver could easily be the best returning buy-and-hold strategy for the next few years.

The psychological impact of a year-end price decline in precious metals would be enormous. Short-sighted holders would be inclined to let go, while large accumulators scoop it up with abandon. This is no accident, and it has no bearing on reality - supply and demand of promissory notes is completely different from supply and demand of whatever asset the promissory notes represent.

World leaders seem to be hoping that the progress curve, which has been increasing geometrically, will prevent further collapse of the global economy. The issue with this is that the traditional economic system that they are trying to support is incompatible with the structure that is accelerating the growth.

For now, Bitcoin is much more interesting than the sluggish decay of the necrotic western hegemony. It appears that $12.60 has been tentatively breached to the upside; from here, $13 and ever whole dollar above will pose a challenge. In particular, $15 is a strong battleground because after that there is little standing in the way of a rise to the $30 range ($17-18, $20, and $25 are relatively minor resistance points). An overshoot would likely push the price up to double the prior high, which would be ~$35 on a weekly closing basis and ~$60 on a daily closing basis.

Finally, here is some perspective from FellowTraveler, especially on the notion that there will be a dynamic monetary ecosystem, not just a single currency; Bitcoin may dominate several years from now, but it will not be alone.

Edit: First Tuesday of the month - employment reports, CoT cut-off, etc... price knockdown to be expected; concurrent USD decline ominous for gov't
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