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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2032123 times)
windjc
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October 29, 2013, 06:42:02 AM
 #6141

Never again, moving on I know, gold is to economics as the horse drawn buggy is to international travel.

But... CombiBar! It's...

The most innovative precious metals product that I've ever seen.

...dinosaur tech.

Wow Peter comes across as such a shill in that video. That's QVC quality.  Except its a completely worthless and risky product. "Oh, yeah let me carry this $2500 gold bar in my wallet. I can't buy shit with it, but maybe I'll...I'll...well, maybe I won't misplace my wallet, cause that would suck."

Jess. How ridiculous. lol
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cypherdoc (OP)
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October 29, 2013, 09:35:47 AM
 #6142

Never again, moving on I know, gold is to economics as the horse drawn buggy is to international travel.

But... CombiBar! It's...

The most innovative precious metals product that I've ever seen.

...dinosaur tech.

Lol. I remember  Roll Eyes when I saw that one.

Infinitely divisible!
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October 29, 2013, 09:39:37 AM
 #6143

don't worry, i get plenty wrong too.

this f*ckin Dow just won't go down and i've been over a year too early on the short side.  one of these days i'll be right. Tongue

but the thing is, i've been SO right with gold and BTC i've been able to hold that pair trade (long Bitcoin:short stocks) the whole time with huge returns.  i think we're getting close to hitting on both sides of that trade though.

if you trade long enough, you'll realize if you can be right more often than wrong you're doing good.  if you can be right for 2 out of the 3 markets you're trading in, that's real good.

better cut ur loss dow prob will top above 30k

But then so will my BTC and I'll be long retired.

I want a hedge. And you just know there's going to be a crisis somewhere along here.
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October 29, 2013, 09:45:36 AM
 #6144

Especially considering since the start of this thread the BTC:gold ratio has been in almost continual freefall ascent.

ftfy.
Is not the convention numerator:denominator?

In that case BTC:gold is falling and gold:BTC is ascending.

Sorry, was thinking in terms of price.
cypherdoc (OP)
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October 29, 2013, 10:54:31 AM
Last edit: October 29, 2013, 11:06:50 AM by cypherdoc
 #6145

don't worry, i get plenty wrong too.

this f*ckin Dow just won't go down and i've been over a year too early on the short side.  one of these days i'll be right. Tongue

but the thing is, i've been SO right with gold and BTC i've been able to hold that pair trade (long Bitcoin:short stocks) the whole time with huge returns.  i think we're getting close to hitting on both sides of that trade though.

if you trade long enough, you'll realize if you can be right more often than wrong you're doing good.  if you can be right for 2 out of the 3 markets you're trading in, that's real good.

better cut ur loss dow prob will top above 30k

Btw, if you don't think Bitcoin has the potential to deflate the stock market then you're not dreaming the true Bitcoin Dream.  Tongue

SO MANY dollars are locked up in the stock market right now. Imo, the stock market is the quintessential representation of US dollar hegemony and power. It's the only thing keeping the US afloat. While not as big as the UST market, it's psychological importance is bigger.

For Bitcoin to achieve the heights we're all dreaming about with lots of zeroes on the end, it will have to crack stocks to draw from that pool of dollars.
Zangelbert Bingledack
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October 29, 2013, 11:05:45 AM
Last edit: October 29, 2013, 11:16:12 AM by Zangelbert Bingledack
 #6146

All in good time.

The thing is, if you imagine Bitcoin going mainstream, it pretty much automatically goes all the way. Once everyone is using and trusting it, it becomes almost idiotic not to use it for stocks, insurance, contracts, etc. In for an inch, in for a mile. I realized a while ago that there are no half measures. If Bitcoin succeeds for even one of its core envisioned functions on the world stage, it won't stop until it has changed everything even remotely connected to finance - that is to say, just about everything.

Irdial wrote in 2011 about just one small function of Bitcoin, the payment network aspect:

Quote
The potential of Bitcoin is obvious to those that are intelligent, that understand computers and software, who have some knowledge of the present state of and recent history of the internet and the problems of money transfer online. Anyone who knows what this really means is awestruck, gobsmacked at how everything is about to fundamentally change.

The scope of what is about to happen is beyond what I think any person is able to really fathom. This is the most exciting time to be alive, and it's just going to get more exciting as the months go by.
wachtwoord
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October 29, 2013, 11:11:58 AM
 #6147

Btw, if you don't think Bitcoin has the potential to deflate the stock market then you're not dreaming the true Bitcoin Dream.  Tongue

Who cares? If you have sufficient Bitcoin exposure your gains there will easily offset the loss in purchasing power of your stock portfolio even if it goes to zero (which it won't).
cypherdoc (OP)
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October 29, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
 #6148

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cOubCHLXT6A&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcOubCHLXT6A

Watch this carefully.

Back in May, while at the Silicon Valley conference, I penned an update to my subs entitled Silicon Valley versus Wall Street. 

Guess who I'm putting my money on? 

 
rpietila
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October 29, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
 #6149

Bitcoin stocks are a good example of how stocks should be evaluated. Their valuations are low.

Why? If Bitcoin changes the world, the company will need to outdo bitcoin's appreciation. If Bitcoin does not change the world, the company is nevertheless toast.

Companies in fiat world have high valuations because fiat anyway loses value, and companies may be able to even profit from it if they are big enough. Earnings are guarantee to go up in inflating dollars. When this bubble pops, you will hear it.

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
Zangelbert Bingledack
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October 29, 2013, 11:14:59 AM
 #6150

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cOubCHLXT6A&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcOubCHLXT6A

Watch this carefully.

Back in May, while at the Silicon Valley conference, I penned an update to my subs entitled Silicon Valley versus Wall Street. 

Guess who I'm putting my money on?

This video is a watershed moment, and then the roaring applause. "Holy shit. It'shappening.jpg."
wachtwoord
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October 29, 2013, 11:16:35 AM
 #6151

Bitcoin stocks are a good example of how stocks should be evaluated. Their valuations are low.

Why? If Bitcoin changes the world, the company will need to outdo bitcoin's appreciation. If Bitcoin does not change the world, the company is nevertheless toast.

Companies in fiat world have high valuations because fiat anyway loses value, and companies may be able to even profit from it if they are big enough. Earnings are guarantee to go up in inflating dollars. When this bubble pops, you will hear it.

Small caps and highly speculative stocks are often valued outside of Bitcoin exchanges as well (especially outside of the large exchanges and OTC)
cypherdoc (OP)
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October 29, 2013, 11:25:30 AM
 #6152

Btw, if you don't think Bitcoin has the potential to deflate the stock market then you're not dreaming the true Bitcoin Dream.  Tongue

Who cares? If you have sufficient Bitcoin exposure your gains there will easily offset the loss in purchasing power of your stock portfolio even if it goes to zero (which it won't).

No it won't go to zero but if you've ever been short stocks during a  prolonged deflationary phase its an incredible way to make money fast. It's an escalator up elevator down dynamic but very difficult to catch.

But back to the point. Bitcoin is deflationary to other assets. It's been key to my gold thesis. Next up, stocks. The stock market is the most inflated asset around right now. All this bs talk about multiple expansion from Wall Street is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

But no doubt, tptb are going to do everything they possibly can to keep it going up by debasing the dollar. So like I said, Bitcoin will do well in that scenario.
oakpacific
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October 29, 2013, 11:47:17 AM
 #6153

I would not have been so impressed, and the whole thing wouldn't feel so awesome, if Bitcoin price had never gone to $2.

As for PMs, my point is still that central banks can easily one-up you at PMs when things get really desperate, Bitcoin, ain't so easy. So unless your apocalypse theory is of the everyone for himself absolute jungle flavor, don't buy too much.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
HeliKopterBen
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October 29, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
 #6154

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
molecular
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October 29, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
 #6155

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

No, it's going to happen.

ColoredCoins is an example of an idea how to do this that already has some implementation. (Author is looking for help)

NGCCC (colored coins): issue and trade private currencies/stocks/bonds/etc

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
wachtwoord
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October 29, 2013, 12:56:35 PM
 #6156

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

No, it's going to happen.

ColoredCoins is an example of an idea how to do this that already has some implementation. (Author is looking for help)

NGCCC (colored coins): issue and trade private currencies/stocks/bonds/etc

Exciting things are happening all through society. Just try not to die for the next 30 years or so and you'll see some really cool developments Smiley
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October 29, 2013, 01:00:12 PM
 #6157

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

No, it's going to happen.

ColoredCoins is an example of an idea how to do this that already has some implementation. (Author is looking for help)

NGCCC (colored coins): issue and trade private currencies/stocks/bonds/etc

as is Mastercoin Smiley
MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”
except that development for MSC has seen a lot more support than that of ColoredCoins. Dev of distributed exchange logic is in progress, and next on the list will be logic for smart property ie stocks
kjj
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October 29, 2013, 01:30:25 PM
 #6158

Colored coins are unworkable in the real world.  Mastercoin is a scam.

We need a bitcoin-like chain for securities and shares.  We'll get there.  Brokerages will transition to acting as interfaces between the bitcoin chain and the security chain.

17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
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October 29, 2013, 01:34:56 PM
 #6159

Colored coins are unworkable in the real world.  Mastercoin is a scam.

We need a bitcoin-like chain for securities and shares.  We'll get there.  Brokerages will transition to acting as interfaces between the bitcoin chain and the security chain.

Either way, the point is many efforts are being worked on to update our antiquated systems of exchange. A quick perusal of the project development board will show a handful of different actors theorizing several different and intuitive ways to create a backbone for a distributed exchange (some that will work, some that might, some that won't). Day by day more brain power gets invested towards these problems. I hope that we can soon enough, as a global society, design and use infallible and fluid price-discovery mechanisms at minimal cost. Eventually it will happen
cypherdoc (OP)
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October 29, 2013, 02:10:17 PM
 #6160

I would not have been so impressed, and the whole thing wouldn't feel so awesome, if Bitcoin price had never gone to $2.

As for PMs, my point is still that central banks can easily one-up you at PMs when things get really desperate, Bitcoin, ain't so easy. So unless your apocalypse theory is of the everyone for himself absolute jungle flavor, don't buy too much.

Yep, that was key. Ponzis don't bounce remember?

That was a bad time. The shorts were out in force. It took heavy discipline to buy that crash.
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