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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807836 times)
cypherdoc
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October 28, 2013, 11:11:35 PM
 #6141


I cannot see how you got so screwed on taxes WRT gold.  I have a CPA do my books and I didn't seem to have gotten hit nearly as hard.  2013 is going to be an interesting year due to my starting to take BTC profits.

The really interesting thing will happen if/when people start to exchange BTC for PM's (and vice-versa) directly in a major way.


b/c i report them?  Wink

as i said, my local bullion dealer meticulously recorded my entire gold/silver sale back to them by writing down my name, address, check amount, and photocopying my license.  you'd have to be nuts not to report the gains.

I concur about the questionable judgement of not reporting, and I reported mine as well.  I just didn't get hit with some 50% or whatever crazy numbers you were mentioning were.  We got in at different times, however, and maybe that had something to do with it.  I just let my CPA deal with that shit.

BTW, however stupid it might be to cheat on the PM gain taxes, I'll bet it is 10x more so to attempt to do so on BTC gains.  The reason is that it will be one of the few vaguely legitimate reasons to attack Bitcoin should the government take a mind to do so.  And as the ecosystem continues to flourish I think there is a very real danger that they'll be forced into that course of action.

When it comes to direct PM<->BTC transactions it seems like the barriers to exploitation both legally and mechanically is a bit higher.  That is why I think it will be interesting to watch how things evolve if/when we get that far.



i don't think i ever said i got hit with 50%.  i believe it was 20% capital gains.  i also don't know exactly as my acct does that shit too.
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October 29, 2013, 04:49:23 AM
 #6142

don't worry, i get plenty wrong too.

this f*ckin Dow just won't go down and i've been over a year too early on the short side.  one of these days i'll be right. Tongue

but the thing is, i've been SO right with gold and BTC i've been able to hold that pair trade (long Bitcoin:short stocks) the whole time with huge returns.  i think we're getting close to hitting on both sides of that trade though.

if you trade long enough, you'll realize if you can be right more often than wrong you're doing good.  if you can be right for 2 out of the 3 markets you're trading in, that's real good.

better cut ur loss dow prob will top above 30k
Adrian-x
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October 29, 2013, 05:52:49 AM
 #6143


it wasn't just you.  it was me against all the goldbugs.  it's all here in the threads.  there were a lot of them.

i've been thinking over the last few days just how much this thread has calmed down since its beginning days.  you actually had to be here to appreciate just how much trolling i suffered through to make this point.  i seem to have this gift in attracting large groups of ppl who hate what i have to say for prolonged periods of time.  Wink  the goldbugs were the first, the shorts during the Bitcoin Depression of 2011 second, and finally the Hashfast haters.

and to be fair, you were one of the few with me during the battle with the shorts.

Those gold bugs were pulling a classic pump and dump - they were so convincing I sold 2/3's of my Bitcoins in December / Jan and bought gold coins at golds top.

Anyway I now have gold and a delayed retirement plan.

Never again, moving on I know, gold is to economics as the horse drawn buggy is to international travel.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
windjc
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October 29, 2013, 06:42:02 AM
 #6144

Never again, moving on I know, gold is to economics as the horse drawn buggy is to international travel.

But... CombiBar! It's...

The most innovative precious metals product that I've ever seen.

...dinosaur tech.

Wow Peter comes across as such a shill in that video. That's QVC quality.  Except its a completely worthless and risky product. "Oh, yeah let me carry this $2500 gold bar in my wallet. I can't buy shit with it, but maybe I'll...I'll...well, maybe I won't misplace my wallet, cause that would suck."

Jess. How ridiculous. lol

If you haven't heard about what is happening with GAME, check it out.  It's revolutionizing gaming. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1266597.0
cypherdoc
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October 29, 2013, 09:35:47 AM
 #6145

Never again, moving on I know, gold is to economics as the horse drawn buggy is to international travel.

But... CombiBar! It's...

The most innovative precious metals product that I've ever seen.

...dinosaur tech.

Lol. I remember  Roll Eyes when I saw that one.

Infinitely divisible!
cypherdoc
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October 29, 2013, 09:39:37 AM
 #6146

don't worry, i get plenty wrong too.

this f*ckin Dow just won't go down and i've been over a year too early on the short side.  one of these days i'll be right. Tongue

but the thing is, i've been SO right with gold and BTC i've been able to hold that pair trade (long Bitcoin:short stocks) the whole time with huge returns.  i think we're getting close to hitting on both sides of that trade though.

if you trade long enough, you'll realize if you can be right more often than wrong you're doing good.  if you can be right for 2 out of the 3 markets you're trading in, that's real good.

better cut ur loss dow prob will top above 30k

But then so will my BTC and I'll be long retired.

I want a hedge. And you just know there's going to be a crisis somewhere along here.
cypherdoc
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October 29, 2013, 09:45:36 AM
 #6147

Especially considering since the start of this thread the BTC:gold ratio has been in almost continual freefall ascent.

ftfy.
Is not the convention numerator:denominator?

In that case BTC:gold is falling and gold:BTC is ascending.

Sorry, was thinking in terms of price.
cypherdoc
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October 29, 2013, 10:54:31 AM
 #6148

don't worry, i get plenty wrong too.

this f*ckin Dow just won't go down and i've been over a year too early on the short side.  one of these days i'll be right. Tongue

but the thing is, i've been SO right with gold and BTC i've been able to hold that pair trade (long Bitcoin:short stocks) the whole time with huge returns.  i think we're getting close to hitting on both sides of that trade though.

if you trade long enough, you'll realize if you can be right more often than wrong you're doing good.  if you can be right for 2 out of the 3 markets you're trading in, that's real good.

better cut ur loss dow prob will top above 30k

Btw, if you don't think Bitcoin has the potential to deflate the stock market then you're not dreaming the true Bitcoin Dream.  Tongue

SO MANY dollars are locked up in the stock market right now. Imo, the stock market is the quintessential representation of US dollar hegemony and power. It's the only thing keeping the US afloat. While not as big as the UST market, it's psychological importance is bigger.

For Bitcoin to achieve the heights we're all dreaming about with lots of zeroes on the end, it will have to crack stocks to draw from that pool of dollars.
Zangelbert Bingledack
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October 29, 2013, 11:05:45 AM
 #6149

All in good time.

The thing is, if you imagine Bitcoin going mainstream, it pretty much automatically goes all the way. Once everyone is using and trusting it, it becomes almost idiotic not to use it for stocks, insurance, contracts, etc. In for an inch, in for a mile. I realized a while ago that there are no half measures. If Bitcoin succeeds for even one of its core envisioned functions on the world stage, it won't stop until it has changed everything even remotely connected to finance - that is to say, just about everything.

Irdial wrote in 2011 about just one small function of Bitcoin, the payment network aspect:

Quote
The potential of Bitcoin is obvious to those that are intelligent, that understand computers and software, who have some knowledge of the present state of and recent history of the internet and the problems of money transfer online. Anyone who knows what this really means is awestruck, gobsmacked at how everything is about to fundamentally change.

The scope of what is about to happen is beyond what I think any person is able to really fathom. This is the most exciting time to be alive, and it's just going to get more exciting as the months go by.
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October 29, 2013, 11:11:58 AM
 #6150

Btw, if you don't think Bitcoin has the potential to deflate the stock market then you're not dreaming the true Bitcoin Dream.  Tongue

Who cares? If you have sufficient Bitcoin exposure your gains there will easily offset the loss in purchasing power of your stock portfolio even if it goes to zero (which it won't).

cypherdoc
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October 29, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
 #6151

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cOubCHLXT6A&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcOubCHLXT6A

Watch this carefully.

Back in May, while at the Silicon Valley conference, I penned an update to my subs entitled Silicon Valley versus Wall Street. 

Guess who I'm putting my money on? 

 
rpietila
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October 29, 2013, 11:13:53 AM
 #6152

Bitcoin stocks are a good example of how stocks should be evaluated. Their valuations are low.

Why? If Bitcoin changes the world, the company will need to outdo bitcoin's appreciation. If Bitcoin does not change the world, the company is nevertheless toast.

Companies in fiat world have high valuations because fiat anyway loses value, and companies may be able to even profit from it if they are big enough. Earnings are guarantee to go up in inflating dollars. When this bubble pops, you will hear it.

Zangelbert Bingledack
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October 29, 2013, 11:14:59 AM
 #6153

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cOubCHLXT6A&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcOubCHLXT6A

Watch this carefully.

Back in May, while at the Silicon Valley conference, I penned an update to my subs entitled Silicon Valley versus Wall Street. 

Guess who I'm putting my money on?

This video is a watershed moment, and then the roaring applause. "Holy shit. It'shappening.jpg."
wachtwoord
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October 29, 2013, 11:16:35 AM
 #6154

Bitcoin stocks are a good example of how stocks should be evaluated. Their valuations are low.

Why? If Bitcoin changes the world, the company will need to outdo bitcoin's appreciation. If Bitcoin does not change the world, the company is nevertheless toast.

Companies in fiat world have high valuations because fiat anyway loses value, and companies may be able to even profit from it if they are big enough. Earnings are guarantee to go up in inflating dollars. When this bubble pops, you will hear it.

Small caps and highly speculative stocks are often valued outside of Bitcoin exchanges as well (especially outside of the large exchanges and OTC)

cypherdoc
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October 29, 2013, 11:25:30 AM
 #6155

Btw, if you don't think Bitcoin has the potential to deflate the stock market then you're not dreaming the true Bitcoin Dream.  Tongue

Who cares? If you have sufficient Bitcoin exposure your gains there will easily offset the loss in purchasing power of your stock portfolio even if it goes to zero (which it won't).

No it won't go to zero but if you've ever been short stocks during a  prolonged deflationary phase its an incredible way to make money fast. It's an escalator up elevator down dynamic but very difficult to catch.

But back to the point. Bitcoin is deflationary to other assets. It's been key to my gold thesis. Next up, stocks. The stock market is the most inflated asset around right now. All this bs talk about multiple expansion from Wall Street is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

But no doubt, tptb are going to do everything they possibly can to keep it going up by debasing the dollar. So like I said, Bitcoin will do well in that scenario.
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October 29, 2013, 11:47:17 AM
 #6156

I would not have been so impressed, and the whole thing wouldn't feel so awesome, if Bitcoin price had never gone to $2.

As for PMs, my point is still that central banks can easily one-up you at PMs when things get really desperate, Bitcoin, ain't so easy. So unless your apocalypse theory is of the everyone for himself absolute jungle flavor, don't buy too much.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
HeliKopterBen
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October 29, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
 #6157

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
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October 29, 2013, 12:48:14 PM
 #6158

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

No, it's going to happen.

ColoredCoins is an example of an idea how to do this that already has some implementation. (Author is looking for help)

NGCCC (colored coins): issue and trade private currencies/stocks/bonds/etc

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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October 29, 2013, 12:56:35 PM
 #6159

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

No, it's going to happen.

ColoredCoins is an example of an idea how to do this that already has some implementation. (Author is looking for help)

NGCCC (colored coins): issue and trade private currencies/stocks/bonds/etc

Exciting things are happening all through society. Just try not to die for the next 30 years or so and you'll see some really cool developments Smiley

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October 29, 2013, 01:00:12 PM
 #6160

Centralized stock exchanges may become obsolete anyway.  I can foresee a decentralized, peer-to-peer based, global system for exchanging stocks taking over because of the extensive regulation, manipulation, and fees associated with current centralized stock exchanges.  In this case, bids and asks will be broadcast across a network of distributed nodes, transactions will occur when those bids and asks meet, and stock ownership will be permanently recorded in a distributed blockchain.  Bitcoin is already being used to buy precious metals directly so it is only a matter of time before a mechanism to buy stocks directly comes into play and this mechanism may be built on bitcoin technology, using cryptocurrency as the currency of choice when exchanging these stocks.  This will undoubtedly pull money away from the current centralized stock market.

Or am I just dreaming?

No, it's going to happen.

ColoredCoins is an example of an idea how to do this that already has some implementation. (Author is looking for help)

NGCCC (colored coins): issue and trade private currencies/stocks/bonds/etc

as is Mastercoin Smiley
MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”
except that development for MSC has seen a lot more support than that of ColoredCoins. Dev of distributed exchange logic is in progress, and next on the list will be logic for smart property ie stocks

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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