Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[BldSwtTrs]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

NXT is not fully open-source AFAIK.

when was the last time you checked? its been fully open source for months with all "clone traps" and injected flaws removed.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60166/

vbuterin:
I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics.

[1550858107]

1550858107

[1550858107]

1550858107

[1550858107]

1550858107

[kodtycoon]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

NXT is not fully open-source AFAIK.

when was the last time you checked? its been fully open source for months with all "clone traps" and injected flaws removed.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60166/

vbuterin:
I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics.

hes talking about transparent forging which hasnt been fully implemented in the core yet. not the source code of nxt.

this is the source code.

https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src
 
looks open source to me

[cypherdoc]

the war is on; for taxis that is.  and it won't end well; for Yellows:

"We just dropped uberX fares by 20%, making it cheaper than a New York City taxi. From Brooklyn to the Bronx, and everywhere in between, uberX is now the most affordable ride in the city."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-07/uber-launches-war-against-yellow-cabs-cuts-new-york-fares-20-ali-baba-launches-chine

[cypherdoc]

time for the roll:

[NewLiberty]

I found it interesting to read the comments of the ghash owner who said that pulling a  double spend is actually quite difficult from an  internal technical stand point.

I  wonder what he was talking about?  

He means that he almost didn't get away with it the last few times.  

Seriously though, can you explain to me the mechanics of an attack scenario that is technically and economically viable, repeatable, undetectable  and puts cash into his bank account as a result?

Having mentioned the one that you are already aware of and is public knowledge will have to be sufficient for this media.
Discussing past malicious acts is fine.
Discussing "theoretical" future crimes treads the line of conspiracy in many jurisdictions.  Folks know me and how to find me.  I'm not eager to do that in any public forum, nor ought you be.
Let it suffice that there are attack vectors using mining concentration.  I suspect you may be as aware of some of them as I, if you look at it critically.

That the current concentrators are eminently honorable and not presently subjected to coercive forces is nice, like a sunny spring day... but that is not to imagine that it won't sometimes rain.  It remains a systemic threat that smart folks are working on resolving in many ways.  I think they are not wasting their time.

A.A. also publicly dismisses and minimizes these threats.  I respect his position, but my own is very different from his.  I am less concerned with speedy adoption, and more with getting it as right as we can ahead of that and looking at it holistically.  With the prospects of "darker" more private coins, the discovery of malfeasance is increasingly difficult.

I tend to think that adoption will happen in its own time now anyway.  All the opposition are their own worst enemies.  Adoption is inevitable, excellence is what takes and deserves the effort.

[cypherdoc]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

[arbitrage001]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

Unlikely to happen.

Who is going to enforce law and order? No nation will willingly give up their own army and police and the power to suppress their citizen.

[Adrian-x]

I found it interesting to read the comments of the ghash owner who said that pulling a  double spend is actually quite difficult from an  internal technical stand point.

I  wonder what he was talking about?  

He means that he almost didn't get away with it the last few times.  

Seriously though, can you explain to me the mechanics of an attack scenario that is technically and economically viable, repeatable, undetectable  and puts cash into his bank account as a result?

Having mentioned the one that you are already aware of and is public knowledge will have to be sufficient for this media.
Discussing past malicious acts is fine.
Discussing "theoretical" future crimes treads the line of conspiracy in many jurisdictions.  Folks know me and how to find me.  I'm not eager to do that in any public forum, nor ought you be.
Let it suffice that there are attack vectors using mining concentration.  I suspect you may be as aware of some of them as I, if you look at it critically.

That the current concentrators are eminently honorable and not presently subjected to coercive forces is nice, like a sunny spring day... but that is not to imagine that it won't sometimes rain.  It remains a systemic threat that smart folks are working on resolving in many ways.  I think they are not wasting their time.

A.A. also publicly dismisses and minimizes these threats.  I respect his position, but my own is very different from his.  I am less concerned with speedy adoption, and more with getting it as right as we can ahead of that and looking at it holistically.  With the prospects of "darker" more private coins, the discovery of malfeasance is increasingly difficult.

I tend to think that adoption will happen in its own time now anyway.  All the opposition are their own worst enemies.  Adoption is inevitable, excellence is what takes and deserves the effort.

To this end, thinking about this on the weekend, in 2010 when ArtForz developed the OpenGL GPU mining algorithm, he obviously realised quickly he had to make it publicly available, or he would be controlling the Bitcoin network, in open sourcing his innovation after a brief profiteering, he not only secured his investment in the network but secured the network it’s self.

Now the vertically-integrated operation  GHash.IO / CEX / BitFury / setup is in the same position, as you point our the owners intentions can easily be subverted by kidnapping his family or by any other Power Structures attack method, looking at the human rights violations underway in the Ukraine, it wouldn’t be a surprise if some of that 3 billion war loan from the IMF is directed to this end.  

So decentralisation is the only defense, what that essentially means is BitFury/CEX/Ghash, have to start securing there profit by commoditising the distribution of their ASIC’s, much like ArtForz opted for decentralised control of his competitive advantage with OpenCL mining.

If they don’t they will have to eventually compete against the existing pyramid power structures – guns bombs, propaganda and all, from a position as the underdog. What that vertically-integrated operation need to realise, is there success is dependent of decentralisation, eliminating all points if failure / attack. There undoing is going to be there myopic vision not greed, and success is almost guaranteed if they can take the long view and delay greed and opt for short term sacrifice of decentralisation.    

[Adrian-x]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

much WOW, that article paints a very bullish picture.

[BetMoose]

Just noticed we had a thread on here following BTC vs gold; wanted to share our site where we also have some gold vs bitcoin proponents!

https://www.betmoose.com/searchBets?category=&tags=&status=accepting&sort=rising_desc&text=gold

Cheers

[cypherdoc]

"The article goes on to describe how exactly the privacy of these innocents was violated. The NSA collected "medical records sent from one family member to another, résumés from job hunters and academic transcripts of schoolchildren. In one photo, a young girl in religious dress beams at a camera outside a mosque. Scores of pictures show infants and toddlers in bathtubs, on swings, sprawled on their backs and kissed by their mothers. In some photos, men show off their physiques. In others, women model lingerie, leaning suggestively into a webcam ..."

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/a-devastating-leak-for-edward-snowdens-critics/373991/

[cypherdoc]

the mood is souring:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americans-are-down-on-america-190304928.html

[cypherdoc]

now this is interesting; moving from Singapore to NY?  Lawsky regulation might be signaling favorable conditions?

http://launch.co/story/bitcoin-exchange-itbit-announces-it-is-relocating-from-singapore-to-new

[cypherdoc]

late 2014 could interesting if itBit, Coinsetter, COIN, and SecondMarket get their exchanges/ETF up and running.

[cypherdoc]

timely and highly entertaining interview btwn Russ Roberts and Mike Munger about Uber, AirBnB, and Monkey App, lol!
open your minds gentlemen, change is happening everywhere!

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2014/07/michael_munger.html

[Erdogan]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

"country will relax" my ass. We shall starve and suffocate them.

The officials will have no budget. Their pensions are extinguished. Their salaries are inflated away. The politicians will be laughed at, when they try to offer spoils to the voters. The servicemen abroad will, when their machinery stops due to lack of maintenance, when they have no fuel for their warships for lack of pay, when they have no food left, quietly leave the warships, team up with a local woman and start small scale vegetable production, forget to write home.

[sidhujag]

the war is on; for taxis that is.  and it won't end well; for Yellows:

"We just dropped uberX fares by 20%, making it cheaper than a New York City taxi. From Brooklyn to the Bronx, and everywhere in between, uberX is now the most affordable ride in the city."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-07/uber-launches-war-against-yellow-cabs-cuts-new-york-fares-20-ali-baba-launches-chine

What an idea that is... Anyone can become a driver and all they do is connect drivers or people needing a ride.. brilliant. I heard here in Vancouver they shut it down though, regulation bs.

Now if you add in those cars where you can park and ride and bitcoin as a payment method you take it to another level.

[cypherdoc]

the war is on; for taxis that is.  and it won't end well; for Yellows:

"We just dropped uberX fares by 20%, making it cheaper than a New York City taxi. From Brooklyn to the Bronx, and everywhere in between, uberX is now the most affordable ride in the city."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-07/uber-launches-war-against-yellow-cabs-cuts-new-york-fares-20-ali-baba-launches-chine

What an idea that is... Anyone can become a driver and all they do is connect drivers or people needing a ride.. brilliant. I heard here in Vancouver they shut it down though, regulation bs.

Now if you add in those cars where you can park and ride and bitcoin as a payment method you take it to another level.

I'm sure bitcoin is in Ubers future.

[Trader Steve]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

"country will relax" my ass. We shall starve and suffocate them.

The officials will have no budget. Their pensions are extinguished. Their salaries are inflated away. The politicians will be laughed at, when they try to offer spoils to the voters. The servicemen abroad will, when their machinery stops due to lack of maintenance, when they have no fuel for their warships for lack of pay, when they have no food left, quietly leave the warships, team up with a local woman and start small scale vegetable production, forget to write home.

You nailed it. Statists will have to compete for our bitcoins by offering their "services" on a voluntary basis. Fewer and fewer proposals will get funded and individuals overall will prosper. I can't think of a more exciting time to be alive.

[NewLiberty]

Nxt, Nem, Ethereum, …

I'm looking forward to the launch of the first spin-offs later in the year.  Significant progress has recently been made on the UTXO parser for producing the blockchain snapshot files: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563972.msg7602258#msg7602258

Is Nxt or Nem now fully open-source and clone-able using the spin-off method?  

I'm really curious how the market dynamics will play out between the alt-coin and the alt-clone (credit to Cypherdoc for the term ).

I'm looking forward to this as well!

There are some posters in this thread whose rhetoric surrounding alt-coins seem really pushy and aggressive to me. With the launch of alt-clones we might see whether they really care about the tech or just want to pump some coin for personal profit

btw the last 3 pages have been seriously off-topic.

I wasn't trying to pump the coins. Read all my posts bar the most recent in this thread. I was trying to get an answer as to why senior members seem to shun second gen coins. Not pump. I'm never usually this, frustrated but this persistent cold shouldering and selective hearing when dealing with second gens was really p-ing me off. I just wanted answers as to why it happens but as you can see I didn't get any.

Nxt is open source nem is only in open alpa so still closed. And don't base an entire cryptocurrency on one person's comments. If you read the comments you will see I'm looking for an answer that nook one so far has been able to give?

Its called concern trolling.  Claiming to be worried that something isn't getting its proper attention.  If you have a question for "senior members" please realize that there isn't such a collective unit.  Ask the individuals.  Some might agree with you, but these people are not all of the same mind and all against you as you are claiming. 

On the internet, you are much more likely to get a dissent than an agreement.   Folks that agree will nod and read the next post.  Those that disagree might more likely say so.