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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804371 times)
cypherdoc
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August 01, 2014, 04:03:20 PM
 #10081

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/495238213481811968
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molecular
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August 01, 2014, 04:04:58 PM
 #10082


Did anyone read Rickards new book "The Death of Money"?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Adrian-x
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August 01, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
 #10083

What we see with government debt as in Argentina, is that after a default, the market "forgives" a county, and start lending again. Then we have the same thing going.

Analysis: Government debt is a pyramid scheme, ...


Civilization (governed human beings) is a pyramid scheme.
By that measure Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme too. While civilization seems to be degrading along with the global financial system Bitcoin is just getting started. I think Bitcoin going to really inflate that civilization bubble Type 1 civilization here we come. Smiley

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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August 01, 2014, 04:16:13 PM
 #10084

What we see with government debt as in Argentina, is that after a default, the market "forgives" a county, and start lending again. Then we have the same thing going.

Analysis: Government debt is a pyramid scheme, ...


Civilization (governed human beings) is a pyramid scheme.
By that measure Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme too. While civilization seems to be degrading along with the global financial system Bitcoin is just getting started. I think Bitcoin going to really inflate that civilization bubble Type 1 civilization here we come. Smiley
A type 1 civilization doesn't use money at all. Hopefully Bitcoin will replace the need for money with intelligent resource management.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
Adrian-x
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August 01, 2014, 04:20:31 PM
 #10085

What we see with government debt as in Argentina, is that after a default, the market "forgives" a county, and start lending again. Then we have the same thing going.

Analysis: Government debt is a pyramid scheme, ...


Civilization (governed human beings) is a pyramid scheme.
By that measure Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme too. While civilization seems to be degrading along with the global financial system Bitcoin is just getting started. I think Bitcoin going to really inflate that civilization bubble Type 1 civilization here we come. Smiley
A type 1 civilization doesn't use money at all. Hopefully Bitcoin will replace the need for money with intelligent resource management.
Bitcoin isn't money it's a decentralized global resources management system network (a global ledger), the intelligence in the system is the collective wisdom of the users.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cypherdoc
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August 01, 2014, 04:29:42 PM
 #10086

follow thru on high volume... and it's still early in the day comparatively:

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August 01, 2014, 05:31:37 PM
 #10087

Arghh... The LA Times is quoting Mark Williams in an article on the Coinabul mess: http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-bitcoin-defrauding-20140729-story.html

How they can present that guy as a valid opinion for anything bitcoin related is beyond me. Don't know why it annoys me so much, but it does.

The author is Riley Snyder. I think people should point out to him what a terrible source Williams is. His twitter handle is: @RileySynder . CCing @latimes probably wouldn't hurt either. And he can be emailed here: Riley.snyder@latimes.com

Why blame bitcoin?  Is gold not just as much at fault if this is a bitcoin to gold service.  Users can prove payment in bitcoin.  They can't do that with gold.  It seems to me that gold would be more at fault... that is of course if you want to blame the tool and not the site operator.

Good point.
cypherdoc
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August 01, 2014, 07:01:56 PM
 #10088

Jim Rickards vs. James Turk

Rickards has come a long way but still doesn't understand Bitcoin. Turk is OK, but also misses so much.  They both think gold and Bitcoin are complementary. Wrong :

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wItCW3WYjhs
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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August 01, 2014, 09:41:30 PM
 #10089

Rickards is wack. Volatility, EMPs, can't pay taxes, all bullshit arguments. He doesn't understand that an algorithm of consensus is superior to authority. Turk get's it.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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August 01, 2014, 09:43:30 PM
 #10090

an algorithm of consensus is superior to authority.

+1 gogo amir taaki ^^
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August 01, 2014, 09:47:51 PM
 #10091

He doesn't understand that an algorithm of consensus is superior to authority. Turk get's it.
When did you change your mind on this subject?
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August 01, 2014, 10:01:48 PM
 #10092

Rickards is wack. Volatility, EMPs, can't pay taxes, all bullshit arguments. He doesn't understand that an algorithm of consensus is superior to authority. Turk get's it.

yes, his opposition to bitcoin is weak and falls into the ponzi/pyramid/internet goes away etc excuses. Another reason he gives is that government wont allow it, which in the eyes of many is the whole point. But, in saying that, I'd say he has moderated his views over the last few months. I like his currency stuff and he makes some sensible arguments for gold, but his bitcoin stuff is meh.
cypherdoc
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August 01, 2014, 10:03:30 PM
 #10093

for someone who claims to understand financial game theory as well as anyone, Rickards fails miserably when he says the Bitcoin "community" can just get together and back Bitcoin with gold. he sees "that" as a good idea.  such failure in the understanding of the game theory behind voluntary open source software participation.  we're all here because the supply is fixed and not backed by gold.  any fork that deviates from that will get ignored and fail miserably.  there's no "getting together".

it was a deeply failed "debate".  both those old dudes didn't want to get into a real debate as they've been on the same wavelength for so long that they didn't want to step on each others toes so they lamely met in the middle of Bitcoin and gold being complementary.  having said that, at least Rickards isn't as openly hostile towards Bitcoin as he's been in the past and we now have Turk openly supporting Bitcoin.  that's progress.
NewLiberty
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August 01, 2014, 10:47:11 PM
 #10094

for someone who claims to understand financial game theory as well as anyone, Rickards fails miserably when he says the Bitcoin "community" can just get together and back Bitcoin with gold. he sees "that" as a good idea.  such failure in the understanding of the game theory behind voluntary open source software participation.  we're all here because the supply is fixed and not backed by gold.  any fork that deviates from that will get ignored and fail miserably.  there's no "getting together".

it was a deeply failed "debate".  both those old dudes didn't want to get into a real debate as they've been on the same wavelength for so long that they didn't want to step on each others toes so they lamely met in the middle of Bitcoin and gold being complementary.  having said that, at least Rickards isn't as openly hostile towards Bitcoin as he's been in the past and we now have Turk openly supporting Bitcoin.  that's progress.

What's worse, is that we already do.
Back it with Gold, with our time, with silver, with whatever we are willing to part with for some bitcoin.

All your bitcoin are redeemable for gold and silver and whatever else you might like to spend them on.  
About a year ago, I offered to back all of bitcoin with silver at 4 ounces of Bitcoin Specie to a bitcoin, which was about the price at the time.  Some folks took me up on it and there is a lot of Bitcoin Specie out there as a result.

Neither Turk nor Rickards are stupid, but havn't studied Bitcoin enough to really get it yet.  They are however professional experts, so they get the spotlight.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Carlton Banks
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August 01, 2014, 11:24:16 PM
 #10095

Part of me (the cynical part) thinks that people like Rickards and Shiff are just playing dumb. I would if I were them, there are several reasons to do so (not least that Schiff runs a business based around gold as money/value store).

Vires in numeris
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August 02, 2014, 12:06:04 AM
 #10096

Part of me (the cynical part) thinks that people like Rickards and Shiff are just playing dumb. I would if I were them, there are several reasons to do so (not least that Schiff runs a business based around gold as money/value store).

Bitcoin is entirely unproven. It is immature.  It has barely been in the public eye for long enough to be seriously studied and reviewed.

WE are the crazy ones.  Gold is over 4000 years as money and has mountains of evidence as being the "gold standard" for money.  Being the crazy ones, we have the opportunity to change the world.  It is up to us to convince them since they are the experts and have spent a lifetime getting to the point where the whole world knows them and values their opinion.

One by one, they will see it.  Can't expect more than that.

And be grateful for the time it takes for them to 'get it'.  That fact is why you have as many coins as you have.
If they are accumulating BTC and not talking about it until they do, that is another matter.  Though I doubt its the case for Rickards at least.  He seems very willing to say unpopular things to people that will be unhappy about it.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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August 02, 2014, 12:14:05 AM
 #10097

He doesn't understand that an algorithm of consensus is superior to authority. Turk get's it.
When did you change your mind on this subject?
huh? I've always been a Bitcoin permabull. The minor issues I've had were regarding absolute anonymity and scalability. I need to make a trip to Austin one day soon, probably later this month.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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August 02, 2014, 12:17:48 AM
 #10098

Part of me (the cynical part) thinks that people like Rickards and Shiff are just playing dumb. I would if I were them, there are several reasons to do so (not least that Schiff runs a business based around gold as money/value store).

Bitcoin is entirely unproven. It is immature.  It has barely been in the public eye for long enough to be seriously studied and reviewed.

Hmmm, the sort of people I would take seriously have already put Bitcoin through a great deal of study and provenance, ever had your wallet stolen? This is just like those that say things like "one day, Bitcoin will be a viable method for transferring money". When what they're really saying is "one day, I'll stop putting it off and use the damn thing". I've personally been using bitcoin for all of the purposes that it supposedly can't be considered for yet for several years now.

Vires in numeris
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August 02, 2014, 12:31:10 AM
 #10099

Part of me (the cynical part) thinks that people like Rickards and Shiff are just playing dumb. I would if I were them, there are several reasons to do so (not least that Schiff runs a business based around gold as money/value store).

Bitcoin is entirely unproven. It is immature.  It has barely been in the public eye for long enough to be seriously studied and reviewed.

Hmmm, the sort of people I would take seriously have already put Bitcoin through a great deal of study and provenance, ever had your wallet stolen? This is just like those that say things like "one day, Bitcoin will be a viable method for transferring money". When what they're really saying is "one day, I'll stop putting it off and use the damn thing". I've personally been using bitcoin for all of the purposes that it supposedly can't be considered for yet for several years now.

The software works.  The math works.  What remains is it being money wherever you might expect it to be money, and for less people looking at you funny when you want to give it to them for something they value.

Not so many people will refuse gold as payment, world wide.

Money is more than working software, money is in the minds of people, it is memory.
I agree with you that the review of Bitcoin is good enough for me, and I prefer bitcoin over any other payment type.  We are not most people, yet.

Even if, and after, BTC gains popular acceptance, it will take some history to pass by, decades, before it will be deemed a success.  The world is perverse.  The best things are not always the ones that win or even survive.  

I will never give up on Bitcoin.  I made a promise to someone that I refuse to let down.  I will keep that promise come what may, but I know better than to take success for granted.  There is a lot of hard work between here and there, and much stacked against us.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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August 02, 2014, 12:32:16 AM
 #10100

By that measure Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme too. While civilization seems to be degrading along with the global financial system Bitcoin is just getting started. I think Bitcoin going to really inflate that civilization bubble Type 1 civilization here we come. Smiley
# I dont think it fits that definition because its value rises from usage but pyramid can be just purchase.
A pyramid has no usage and for gains to occur it must employ ever more greater numbers or it all fails.  I dont think btc requires more people just to carry on

Quote
Schiff runs a business based around gold as money/value store
Its a minor recent part of his business, he mostly manages funds and he could choose gold and btc if wanted but his line is really about actual 'physical' ownership I think.  They probably do own foreign bonds though which is fiat.  Also shares can end up as broken promises also so I dont see why it should be impossible to convince him of worth here.  BTC is superior in many ways but it does not carry title to anything 'solid'

Schiff mentioned a gold based crypto currency, damned if I ever heard of it.  P something ?  He still disagreed as its merely token or 1% of gold worth not 1:1    He then went onto describe a currency that was run with a central deposit and had no miners, you just rely on the vault to verify the gold and issue gold digital tokens - of course this isnt crypto currency at all more like GLD  which we've had quite a while  Grin

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