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molecular
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January 12, 2014, 08:09:46 AM |
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Might be old news for some/most here, but for me this was a very interesting and informative video: When Gold and Silver Go Into HidingThe video explains this system: The gold-backed dollar hasn't died, it has only changed its form
and what it's supposedly inevitable failure will lead to And so we're faced with a couple of possibilities: either the gold price rises substantially or the futures market breaks. In the case of the latter there will be no more backing of the petro-dollar by gold and the price discovery mechanism will stop functioning. In this event gold will stop flowing altogether, as will oil. But both will be priceless in dollars because the value of the dollar truly will go to zero.
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PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0 3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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solex
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100 satoshis -> ISO code
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January 12, 2014, 08:44:47 AM |
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Great find. I was a gold bug until I discovered Bitcoin, but this is almost enough to make me a gold bug again!
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molecular
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January 12, 2014, 08:48:31 AM |
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Great find. I was a gold bug until I discovered Bitcoin, but this is almost enough to make me a gold bug again!
hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.
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PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0 3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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Dusty
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January 12, 2014, 09:47:32 AM |
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hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.
I think this is a very clever tactic. Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..
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vokain
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January 12, 2014, 09:50:47 AM |
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hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.
I think this is a very clever tactic. Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators.. Is the trend increasing or decreasing in usability of gold in the future? this is my concern currently I'm thinking that the more gold goes down in price, the more gold will be used ...possible rebound after that point?
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Spaceman_Spiff
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January 12, 2014, 12:29:41 PM |
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Great find. I was a gold bug until I discovered Bitcoin, but this is almost enough to make me a gold bug again!
I was a gold bug too, but though I think bitcoin is still risky (maybe some altcoin takes over, or some problem which I am currently unable to foresee), I can easily see a future in which gold's store of value function is dwarfed by that of cryptos, which are a more pure form of money imho. I am increasingly seeing my PMs as a call option on bitcoin/crypto failure. As time progresses and if cryptos keep prospering, that call option should devalue.
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Dr Bloggood
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January 13, 2014, 03:14:25 AM |
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hehe. I think I will continue my (small-scale, both in absolute and also relative terms) diversification from BTC into the metals once BTC price surpasses 1 oz of gold again.
I think this is a very clever tactic. +1 Can't wait for the day I'm going to take 10% of my BTCs and buy 50kg silver with it. Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..
Ha ha ha, I have never thought of it that way, who knows. Do you think that could realistically happen? I hope we will be too late by then, fraud already exposed...
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molecular
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January 13, 2014, 08:07:12 AM |
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Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..
Some perspective on this: if 10% of the "value" of Bitcoin (1 Billion USD) was moved to gold, that would be around 25 metric tons (not even taking into account the price-depressing effect of such a sale on the BTC/USD markets). Compare that to monthly gold imports of China: So this would equate about a weeks worth of supply for China. Hardly going to "shake up" that market. If on the other hand 10% of golds value (650 Billion USD) was put into bitcoin, that would probably push bitcoin price to around USD 85,000. So if both things (bitcoiners diversifying into metals and gold bugs getting into crypto) happen to an equal extent, the effect on bitcoin will be much larger than that on gold.
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PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0 3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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domob
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January 13, 2014, 09:58:17 AM |
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Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..
Some perspective on this: if 10% of the "value" of Bitcoin (1 Billion USD) was moved to gold, that would be around 25 metric tons (not even taking into account the price-depressing effect of such a sale on the BTC/USD markets). Compare that to monthly gold imports of China: [plot skipped] So this would equate about a weeks worth of supply for China. Hardly going to "shake up" that market. True. But I think the poster meant this more as a long-term perspective, after some more orders of magnitude in growth for Bitcoin. If the market cap of Bitcoin approaches that of gold, it could be very possible to expose fractional-reserves in the gold market. (However, at that point in time, most people will probably prefer Bitcoin to gold anyway and thus won't go on massive gold shopping with their coins.)
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Use your Namecoin identity as OpenID: https://nameid.org/Donations: 1 domobKsPZ5cWk2kXssD8p8ES1qffGUCm | NMC: NC domobcmcmVdxC5yxMitojQ4tvAtv99pY BM-GtQnWM3vcdorfqpKXsmfHQ4rVYPG5pKS | GPG 0xA7330737
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rpietila
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January 13, 2014, 12:22:24 PM |
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The silver market is nearing the inflection point much faster than gold. The deliverable reserves of silver coins and bullion worldwide are something like 500M oz, so about the same market cap as the total number of bitcoins.
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HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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Dusty
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January 13, 2014, 12:49:06 PM |
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True. But I think the poster meant this more as a long-term perspective, after some more orders of magnitude in growth for Bitcoin.
Yes, of course. I'm a bit optimistic, I know (thanks for pointing it out)
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Dr Bloggood
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January 13, 2014, 03:30:41 PM |
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Also, if many wealthy bitcoiners will do it, that will really shake up the gold market and maybe expose all his manipulations, and manipulators..
Some perspective on this: if 10% of the "value" of Bitcoin (1 Billion USD) was moved to gold, that would be around 25 metric tons (not even taking into account the price-depressing effect of such a sale on the BTC/USD markets). Compare that to monthly gold imports of China: So this would equate about a weeks worth of supply for China. Hardly going to "shake up" that market. If on the other hand 10% of golds value (650 Billion USD) was put into bitcoin, that would probably push bitcoin price to around USD 85,000. So if both things (bitcoiners diversifying into metals and gold bugs getting into crypto) happen to an equal extent, the effect on bitcoin will be much larger than that on gold. That's a very interesting calculation. No way can I see 10% of total above ground gold supply ever be moved into BTC though. That would include 10% of the central banks gold (if anything is left..), and above all of China's and India's supply, jewelry all over the world, etc... The Asians love their gold, and gold from China it is never coming back. Gold has too much of a tradition in these countries, and the West doesn't have much left... But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.
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molecular
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January 13, 2014, 08:27:07 PM |
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But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.
This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to.
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tvbcof
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January 13, 2014, 10:24:19 PM |
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But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.
This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to. To paraphrase and old Cheech & Chong sketch: "Before I found the Lord Bitcoin, I used to be all hung up on drugs gold. Now that I found the Lord Bitcoin, now I'm all hung up on the Lord Bitcoin."Actually it is true that I rarely go to Kitco any more these days but watch Bitcoinity like a hawk. I watch Kitco a little bit more recently because of their experimental Bitcoin charting.
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sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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Kungfucheez
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January 14, 2014, 05:34:47 AM |
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You mean the thing I can't afford now, I still won't be able to afford??? Sounds about right.
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cypherdoc (OP)
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January 14, 2014, 09:20:16 AM |
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Reality check! It's always nice to get affirmation from a central banker to rekindle the fire in one's belly: Feds Richard Fisher Furthermore, I just realized I love Texans. Stockman, Justusranvier, and now Fisher.
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Dr Bloggood
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January 14, 2014, 10:59:40 AM |
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But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.
This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to. Selling some gold to buy Bitcoin... *raises his hand* I have the feeling that Bitcoin is NOW, while it may take a bit more time for gold and silver. The main reason for that is the heavy manipulation of the PMs, which is (hopefully) not the case for BTC, and of course the small market saturation/market cap of BTC is just an enormous opportunity. The PMs time will come big time once the manipulation can no longer be held up.
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sidhujag
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January 20, 2014, 06:08:33 PM |
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But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.
This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to. Selling some gold to buy Bitcoin... *raises his hand* I have the feeling that Bitcoin is NOW, while it may take a bit more time for gold and silver. The main reason for that is the heavy manipulation of the PMs, which is (hopefully) not the case for BTC, and of course the small market saturation/market cap of BTC is just an enormous opportunity. The PMs time will come big time once the manipulation can no longer be held up. JPM is the biggest culprit and alreadt getting sued left and right they are getting out of pms last I heard.. ofcourse after the damage is already done. I suspect both gold and btc to rise together to some extent after stock market peaks.
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S3052
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January 20, 2014, 08:05:08 PM |
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But nevertheless, some shifting from gold into BTC could boost the price.
This has most likely already happened to some extent. A lot of the goldbugs "woke up" to Bitcoin last year. Not sure how many of them actually had the balls to put in so much that it required them to sell metal, though, but it's quite possible it was a few of them considering the metal markets hadn't been as much fun as they used to. Selling some gold to buy Bitcoin... *raises his hand* I have the feeling that Bitcoin is NOW, while it may take a bit more time for gold and silver. The main reason for that is the heavy manipulation of the PMs, which is (hopefully) not the case for BTC, and of course the small market saturation/market cap of BTC is just an enormous opportunity. The PMs time will come big time once the manipulation can no longer be held up. JPM is the biggest culprit and alreadt getting sued left and right they are getting out of pms last I heard.. ofcourse after the damage is already done. I suspect both gold and btc to rise together to some extent after stock market peaks. +1
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