Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Satyre_Noir]

Lots of bitcoin newcomers are gold bugs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Q5a8b-MVE

[billyjoeallen]

Gold still has uses. I can trek anywhere in Myanmar pull out some gold or silver and buy whatever I need. If I tried to use BTC I would starve. I would have to tell them how a computer and internet worked before I could even start to tell them about BTC...

Gold is not dead yet but yes, crypto-coins have made many a gold bugs worry I'm sure.

Anyway I'm still holding to the 5% to 10% of my holdings in PMs and think we will have at least one more massive run up in price before its dead for good.

I'm like 85% crypto and 5% cash.

What the hell are you doing trekking in Burma? Lambos prolly have a hard time on mountain trails even if there wasn't a murderous military junta running around killing people willy nilly.

[phr33]

And each of those bars is worth about 400.000€.

so we are looking at a butt load of value here.

You can have a better look at this place here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTtf5s2HFkA

Eatch shelf apparently holds a tonne 

[billyjoeallen]

gold became the most marketable commodity because it is recognizable, portable, divisible, fungible and scarce. Bitcoin has it beat in every one of these properties.

[molecular]

20,000 bars for all the bitcoins?

no, I want 20,000 for the my last bitcoin alone ;-)

[marcus_of_augustus]

Gold still has uses. I can trek anywhere in Myanmar pull out some gold or silver and buy whatever I need. If I tried to use BTC I would starve. I would have to tell them how a computer and internet worked before I could even start to tell them about BTC...

Gold is not dead yet but yes, crypto-coins have made many a gold bugs worry I'm sure.

Anyway I'm still holding to the 5% to 10% of my holdings in PMs and think we will have at least one more massive run up in price before its dead for good.

I'm like 85% crypto and 5% cash.

what the hell did you do to your name?

... It's tough at the top? ...   

[BldSwtTrs]

Whether the last 5 years has invalidated the money as memory of the last 4000 years remains to be seen.  

your use of memory is somewhat tortured there but stimulated my memory of this excellent paper on memory:

Bitcoin is Memory

Cypherdoc, have you read Cursed money by Bastiat? If so, what do you think about it?

As far as I know he is the first to develop the concept of money-memory there. Which is huge, it appeared to be 150 years ahead of anybody else.
And it's a pity that even people who like him (i.e. Austrian) consider him like a weak theoricist.

[tvbcof]

I'm liking this thread...so many new faces in the wall observer, I can relax with you guys

Thank God I didn't make the mistake of putting a comment on the wall observer thread so I hardly ever look at it.

[kehtolo]

... It's tough at the top? ...   

..And it's twice as tough at the bottom!

[oakpacific]

That picture, and others like it, just make the idea of gold so obviously absurd. The monetary intrinsic value of gold (ie, it's "goodness" as money) died when it became no longer feasible to circulate it directly (ie, when people developed the need to transact quickly over distance).

After thinking about and using bitcoin a lot, this is ever more obvious, and pictures like the above are downright silly. Literally laughable. Why are we bothering with all this stacks of gold anymore?

It was rational when gold was usable as money, and it still made *some* sense when it "backed" paper (though people should've realized the inevitable; namely that the backers would eventually screw with the backing ratio and reserves, therefore making the whole arrangement a giant charade).

But now? Seriously??

Maybe I've just been fighting Jim Rickards on twitter too much lately, but PMs are only useful in a very thin slice of the long-tail; other than some very specific pseudo-apocalyptic use-cases, they're done.

But...but what about CombiBar? Supposed to be the greatest invention since sliced bread?

[Dr Bloggood]

Thought this was relevant:

deustche bank pulls out of rigging

Yep, looks like the germanic branch of the cartel has taken umbrage at not getting it's gold back from the yanks in a timely manner ... we are v. close to the full-blown family bust up ...

I believe old Queen Lizzie poking her nose around in basement of Bank of England last year was no accident and more than merely symbolic, something's up ...

There is certainly something in the cooking, it feels like the end of this is incredibly close...

However, not sure why DB did that.

John Embry's view:

But I find it fascinating that Deutsche Bank left the gold price fixing in London.  I remember vividly what happened 10 years ago when the Rothschilds left the London fix.  At that point the gold market was still laboring around $400, and everybody said, ‘Oh my God, the Rothschilds are leaving the London fix, this must mean there is no future whatsoever for the gold market.’

I took a different view.  I said they (the Rothschilds) were going ‘underground’ because they wanted to participate in the massive upside they knew was coming, and over the next 7 years the gold price went up over $1,500!  This is why I think Deutsche Bank leaving the London gold fix is so huge, along with that German revelation.

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/1/17/Buy-physical-gold-and-avoid-paper-CME-Trader.aspx

follow the money !

"there may not be enough gold to go around if everyone with a futures contract insists on taking delivery of physical bullion ... Knippa warns that if 1 entity asks for delivery of a position-limit-size long in gold, it will absorb 81% of COMEX's inventory... and if 2 entities were to do so... COMEX has a problem..."

What would happen? Lay away? bank has to purchase physical from somewhere at a premium driving up price?

At some point, the Comex won't be able to get their gold, because there won't be any in these quantities. Comex breaks, manipulation game over.

Even if they could purchase it from somehwere, they would have to pay a lot more which would mean A LOT higher prices.

Another scenario might be Comex keeps on showing the paper price, but becomes irrelevant and the price for physical will be much higher (new exchanges purely for physical are being started in Asia).

Anyways, expect gold to explode to the upside and multiply its price by many times. Might start soon.

"Gold is dead" is such an utterly, utterly ridiculous claim on any level, especially by Bitcoiners (who should know better). The match is like 5000:3 for gold (years of active usage).

I'm not talking about use as a currency, BTC is better in that regards for sure. I'm talking about the more important stuff: Keeping the value of what you have and making it more. And of course I'm talking long-term.

[wachtwoord]

I'm not talking about use as a currency, BTC is better in that regards for sure. I'm talking about the more important stuff: Keeping the value of what you have and making it more. And of course I'm talking long-term.

And then you're picking gold over Bitcoin? Really? 

[Dr Bloggood]

I'm not talking about use as a currency, BTC is better in that regards for sure. I'm talking about the more important stuff: Keeping the value of what you have and making it more. And of course I'm talking long-term.

And then you're picking gold over Bitcoin? Really? 

They both got their places in a well-balanced portfolio, I like them both. But they are completely different in term of risk (and in terms of risk/reward ratio)...

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

[rpietila]

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

[Dr Bloggood]

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

I see in your signature you seem to be handling PMs professionally - what do you do there?

[molecular]

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

hmm.. Let me guess.. you're probably quite a bit over 40 years of age?

David Morgan suggests the older you are the more you should be in gold as opposed to silver. Replace "gold" with "precious metal" and "silver" with "crypto" and I can agree.

[NewLiberty]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-incredible-gold-interest-rate-correlation-2014-01-22
TL;DR: Suggests proper price of AU is US$800/oz based on recent historical links to bond interest rates.

We may get gold ozt parity ahead of US$1K parity?

[Dr Bloggood]

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

hmm.. Let me guess.. you're probably quite a bit over 40 years of age?

David Morgan suggests the older you are the more you should be in gold as opposed to silver. Replace "gold" with "precious metal" and "silver" with "crypto" and I can agree.

No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?

[notme]

I do say, however, that you definitely need a much higher percentage of gold than percentage of BTC in your portfolio atm.

Nothing in my calculations points that way (for people with less than $50M net worth). Care to share yours?

I believe the PM manipulation will break fairly soon and (physical) PMs will multiply in price. Also, their prices are around production value already and it seems like even the the most fierce manipulation can't press them much lower anymore - so downside risk seems very limited.

BTC, on the other hand, in my book has huge potential, but huge risk as well.

Bottom line: Price/Reward ratio (or whatever is the correct English term) is a lot better for PMs. Conclusion: Lots of PMs, and some BTC is the way to go.

hmm.. Let me guess.. you're probably quite a bit over 40 years of age?

David Morgan suggests the older you are the more you should be in gold as opposed to silver. Replace "gold" with "precious metal" and "silver" with "crypto" and I can agree.

No, under 40 here.

I'm a bit surprised - you don't believe in the manipulation being stopped soon, Comex empty, etc? Just curious - why not?

If the majority of the capital in the market agreed with you, price would already be different.

[T.Stuart]

Anyway Myanmar is one of the most interesting places to truly do nature trekking in the same way people were able to do it 300 years ago.

To take this a little bit further off-topic  ...

To say you have an affinity with Asia would be putting it mildly. Could I ask how this came about? Is this an interest that goes a long way back, did your parents travel there, work etc.?

Have you also visited Nepal? Maybe Bhutan?