Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[kodtycoon]

keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions

ding, ding ... these will be the winners.

do you guys know if there is the infrastructure there for B2B payments? as far as i know, all payment processors dont allow payments to be taken as btc and held as btc instead of converting to usd.

[1714058421]

1714058421

[1714058421]

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[1714058421]

1714058421

[Torque]

keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions

ding, ding ... these will be the winners.

do you guys know if there is the infrastructure there for B2B payments? as far as i know, all payment processors dont allow payments to be taken as btc and held as btc instead of converting to usd.

Bitcoin will do for the B2B Financial Services industry what SOAP/XML and Web Services did for the B2B E-Commerce and B2C industries.

[kehtolo]

keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions

ding, ding ... these will be the winners.

do you guys know if there is the infrastructure there for B2B payments? as far as i know, all payment processors dont allow payments to be taken as btc and held as btc instead of converting to usd.

The point is you don't need a payment processor at all! Just get your accounting dept. to transfer the btc balance to a given address.
Simple wallet to wallet transaction. A to B with no C.

[kodtycoon]

keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions

ding, ding ... these will be the winners.

do you guys know if there is the infrastructure there for B2B payments? as far as i know, all payment processors dont allow payments to be taken as btc and held as btc instead of converting to usd.

The point is you don't need a payment processor at all! Just get your accounting dept. to transfer the btc balance to a given address.
Simple wallet to wallet transaction. A to B with no C.

true, but would they not need some type of automated book keeping system doing the transactions through bitcoin wallets? so business a wants to pay business b 100 dollars, the person making payments on the system only needs to type in 100, select business B to pay them, system enters the paymet address for business B and the amount of btc that represents 100 dollars, sends from business A to B, then enters a record into a database for the businesses book keeping and for future reference of payments ect. it wouldnt be feasable for companies to simply use a btc wallet. it would 10x their work load.

with a system that runs a btc wallet in the background out of site, you could use it to automate payments from the system. you couldnt expect a company to manually do monthly/weekly transactions every week manually. and with btc not having automated transactions/turing complete built into the core it would have to be built on top using a 3rd party system. this is what i was wondering if it exists.

so really my end point is, with bitcoin atleast, you would need a payment processor, even when its B2B btc payments with out the need for usd.

[cypherdoc]

It's this kind of news that I see as a big deal. Not using payment processors, keeping the bitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/singapore-architecture-design-firm-accept-keep-bitcoins/

There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.

It's forward thinking companies like the one in the article who will spearhead the second phase of merchant adoption. i.e. - keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions.

that theory is bogus.

i don't think there is any company in the space who's done more for bitcoin than Bitpay. they've facilitated adoption from the beginning and we wouldn't be nearly as big as we are without them.  they were the pioneers in that area.  what they facilitated was monetary velocity which is critical for any currency, new or old. it doesn't matter if the merchant wanted Bitpay to sell them immediately. there had to be a buyer anyways and the sales are offloading those coins to new holders that value those coins more highly than the merchants. another way to describe it is liquidity. allowing usage of the coins is important.

it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop. and this isn't double speak from me. what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.

[Trader Steve]

It's this kind of news that I see as a big deal. Not using payment processors, keeping the bitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/singapore-architecture-design-firm-accept-keep-bitcoins/

There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.

It's forward thinking companies like the one in the article who will spearhead the second phase of merchant adoption. i.e. - keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions.

Agreed although these types of businesses (those who convert via BitPay, etc.) also act as informal "cash out" services for bitcoin holders.

[cypherdoc]

keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions

ding, ding ... these will be the winners.

do you guys know if there is the infrastructure there for B2B payments? as far as i know, all payment processors dont allow payments to be taken as btc and held as btc instead of converting to usd.

Yes, there is Coinkite, who I've never dealt with but look to be an innovative company. they're the first to use HD  wallets and sell neat handheld POS devices.

Bitpay and Coinbase actually allow you to hold btc for btc if you want. you just name the %.

[FNG]

http://www.gulf-times.com/eco.-bus.%20news/256/details/398622/kuwait-finance-firm-suggests-trading-oil-in-bitcoins

[cypherdoc]

It's this kind of news that I see as a big deal. Not using payment processors, keeping the bitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/singapore-architecture-design-firm-accept-keep-bitcoins/

There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.

It's forward thinking companies like the one in the article who will spearhead the second phase of merchant adoption. i.e. - keeping the bitcoins for B2B transactions.

Agreed although these types of businesses (those who convert via BitPay, etc.) also act as informal "cash out" services for bitcoin holders.

Yes, but i as a hodler now know that i can cash out when i want, therefore i hodl (and stay calm).

[cypherdoc]

http://www.gulf-times.com/eco.-bus.%20news/256/details/398622/kuwait-finance-firm-suggests-trading-oil-in-bitcoins

I've  thought about this for years. seems like a  likely eventuality. all it takes is one country to bolt from the cartel for that country to become rich. then they'd all follow.

that part about having to use the yuan first is bogus. no one will ever trust that currency.  

[kehtolo]

that theory is bogus.

i don't think there is any company in the space who's done more for bitcoin than Bitpay. they've facilitated adoption from the beginning and we wouldn't be nearly as big as we are without them.  they were the pioneers in that area.  what they facilitated was monetary velocity which is critical for any currency, new or old. it doesn't matter if the merchant wanted Bitpay to sell them immediately. there had to be a buyer anyways and the sales are offloading those coins to new holders that value those coins more highly than the merchants. another way to describe it is liquidity. allowing usage of the coins is important.

it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop. and this isn't double speak from me. what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.

Ok - i take your point, and it makes sense. that the fact they're increasing liquidity, merchant adoption etc. has accelerated bitcoin infrastructure growth and moved us on. Just last year how many merchants accepted it? Very, very few.

Esp. agree with this: 'it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop'

& 'what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.'

[cypherdoc]

that theory is bogus.

i don't think there is any company in the space who's done more for bitcoin than Bitpay. they've facilitated adoption from the beginning and we wouldn't be nearly as big as we are without them.  they were the pioneers in that area.  what they facilitated was monetary velocity which is critical for any currency, new or old. it doesn't matter if the merchant wanted Bitpay to sell them immediately. there had to be a buyer anyways and the sales are offloading those coins to new holders that value those coins more highly than the merchants. another way to describe it is liquidity. allowing usage of the coins is important.

it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop. and this isn't double speak from me. what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.

Ok - i take your point, and it makes sense. that the fact they're increasing liquidity, merchant adoption etc. has accelerated bitcoin infrastructure growth and moved us on. Just last year how many merchants accepted it? Very, very few.

Esp. agree with this: 'it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop'

& 'what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.'

another way to say this, as i've said before, is that Bitcoin is many different things to many different ppl.  it has the ability to satisfy all our needs as hodlers, merchants, or consumers. simultaneously.  someone just said in another thread that Bitcoin's "purpose" is to be spent or transacted with.  no.  for me, right now, it satisfies my wants as a hodler.  but for him, it satisfies his wants as a spender. but it can even do both for me too, simultaneous to my wants as a hodler.  last Nov, i took one of my friends to a pro basketball game.  he's runs a major investment firm and we were talking about Bitcoin.  obviously i was trumpeting the merits of hodling the best performing "asset" of the last 5 yrs and how i was hodling.  but then, just to make the point, i whipped out my Mycelium cold wallet and showed him how i could spontaneously buy a CPK Gyft card and buy him a salad right then and there just to ram home the point that it is liquid also while simultaneously hodling it.

so it doesn't matter what you're doing with it.  the important thing is it's satisfying your wants b/c it's voluntary.  other ppl are seeing that it's voluntary and doesn't force you to feel like you have to spend a withering asset.  this increases aggregate demand.

[cypherdoc]

hey FNG,

what do you think will happen when Bitcoin catches gold for the 2nd time? 

[justusranvier]

There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.

There's another theory floating around that says that payment processors are a way for new investors get into the market.

In this theory, investors who want to accumulate bitcoins without going through the exchanges instead underwrite a payment processor with their fiat, and take the received bitcoins as it comes in. By and large, the bitcoins the payment processors handle does not reach the exchanges.

[cypherdoc]

There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.

There's another theory floating around that says that payment processors are a way for new investors get into the market.

In this theory, investors who want to accumulate bitcoins without going through the exchanges instead underwrite a payment processor with their fiat, and take the received bitcoins as it comes in. By and large, the bitcoins the payment processors handle does not reach the exchanges.

that's not a theory.  it's a fact.

[justusranvier]

that's not a theory.  it's a fact.

I heard a rumor that's how Max Keiser ended up with his bitcoins.

[Melbustus]

...
There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
...

As others are arguing, more merchant acceptance is a huge win despite the incremental technical selling pressure that could result short-term.

Think of it this way:
The selling pressure is linear. But, if we acknowledge that phenomena like bitcoin roughly follow Metcalfe's Law, we see that the net value added to the ecosystem is polynomial: N^2.

So the net addition to the economy is (N^2) - N, which is always positive (for all N>1).

[Peter R]

...
There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
...

As others are arguing, more merchant acceptance is a huge win despite the incremental technical selling pressure that could result short-term.

Think of it this way:
The selling pressure is linear. But, if we acknowledge that phenomena like bitcoin roughly follow Metcalfe's Law, we see that the net value added to the ecosystem is polynomial: N^2.

So the net addition to the economy is (N^2) - N, which is always positive (for all N>1).

Interesting analysis.  And more generally, the net addition to the economy is positive for values of the network-synergy coefficient p > 1 in V ~ N^p.  

From the feedback control theory perspective, bitcoin seems to represent a pole in the right half-plane of the world's monetary system.  

[sidhujag]

...
There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
...

As others are arguing, more merchant acceptance is a huge win despite the incremental technical selling pressure that could result short-term.

Think of it this way:
The selling pressure is linear. But, if we acknowledge that phenomena like bitcoin roughly follow Metcalfe's Law, we see that the net value added to the ecosystem is polynomial: N^2.

So the net addition to the economy is (N^2) - N, which is always positive (for all N>1).

utility is everything. The selling pressure today presents a buying opportunity for tomorrow.

[cypherdoc]

grinding higher...