Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[_mr_e]

Here's the asset exchange running in a web browser. This is a global decentralized database that can be accessed and used from any application anywhere in the world. From MMO assets to company shares anything can plug into this api.

https://trade.secureae.com/#2950240446121913764

Btc and Nxt can compliment each other quite nicely. This isn't a one or the other game.

[Erdogan]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

"country will relax" my ass. We shall starve and suffocate them.

The officials will have no budget. Their pensions are extinguished. Their salaries are inflated away. The politicians will be laughed at, when they try to offer spoils to the voters. The servicemen abroad will, when their machinery stops due to lack of maintenance, when they have no fuel for their warships for lack of pay, when they have no food left, quietly leave the warships, team up with a local woman and start small scale vegetable production, forget to write home.

You nailed it. Statists will have to compete for our bitcoins by offering their "services" on a voluntary basis. Fewer and fewer proposals will get funded and individuals overall will prosper. I can't think of a more exciting time to be alive.

The best part, it may be done without violence. When the money dies, the middle class (those who earn enough to save or invest if they want), will be wiped out, hungry scared. Maloney thinks that if many middle classers have some gold, we can avoid the dictatorship. I think that bitcoin can fullfill this role. We need adoption to go to may be 10 per cent before the crisis. That is two years.

[cypherdoc]

Here's the asset exchange running in a web browser. This is a global decentralized database that can be accessed and used from any application anywhere in the world. From MMO assets to company shares anything can plug into this api.

https://trade.secureae.com/#2950240446121913764

Btc and Nxt can compliment each other quite nicely. This isn't a one or the other game.

nice site.

hmmm....

[kodtycoon]

Here's the asset exchange running in a web browser. This is a global decentralized database that can be accessed and used from any application anywhere in the world. From MMO assets to company shares anything can plug into this api.

https://trade.secureae.com/#12465186738101000735

Btc and Nxt can compliment each other quite nicely. This isn't a one or the other game.

fixed for you!

[cypherdoc]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

"country will relax" my ass. We shall starve and suffocate them.

The officials will have no budget. Their pensions are extinguished. Their salaries are inflated away. The politicians will be laughed at, when they try to offer spoils to the voters. The servicemen abroad will, when their machinery stops due to lack of maintenance, when they have no fuel for their warships for lack of pay, when they have no food left, quietly leave the warships, team up with a local woman and start small scale vegetable production, forget to write home.

You nailed it. Statists will have to compete for our bitcoins by offering their "services" on a voluntary basis. Fewer and fewer proposals will get funded and individuals overall will prosper. I can't think of a more exciting time to be alive.

The best part, it may be done without violence. When the money dies, the middle class (those who earn enough to save or invest if they want), will be wiped out, hungry scared. Maloney thinks that if many middle classers have some gold, we can avoid the dictatorship. I think that bitcoin can fullfill this role. We need adoption to go to may be 10 per cent before the crisis. That is two years.

well, the way i see it, Bitcoin is waiting for something after having clearly broken the downtrend and made a significant move off the bottom.  that something is likely big.  and the move is likely to be UP.

[kodtycoon]

Here's the asset exchange running in a web browser. This is a global decentralized database that can be accessed and used from any application anywhere in the world. From MMO assets to company shares anything can plug into this api.

https://trade.secureae.com/#2950240446121913764

Btc and Nxt can compliment each other quite nicely. This isn't a one or the other game.

nice site.

hmmm....

fixed. long term time scale chart on first link.

http://www.nxtreporting.com/?as=12465186738101000735

https://trade.secureae.com/#12465186738101000735

also trade.secure isnt the nxt client, its just a website that interfaces with it so you can trade on the AE with out running nrs(nxt software)

also, this is another reason to be interested in PoS/Pos+PoI coins http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2a2on3/soooooo_what_the_hell_is_happening_with_this/

[wachtwoord]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

"country will relax" my ass. We shall starve and suffocate them.

The officials will have no budget. Their pensions are extinguished. Their salaries are inflated away. The politicians will be laughed at, when they try to offer spoils to the voters. The servicemen abroad will, when their machinery stops due to lack of maintenance, when they have no fuel for their warships for lack of pay, when they have no food left, quietly leave the warships, team up with a local woman and start small scale vegetable production, forget to write home.

You nailed it. Statists will have to compete for our bitcoins by offering their "services" on a voluntary basis. Fewer and fewer proposals will get funded and individuals overall will prosper. I can't think of a more exciting time to be alive.

The best part, it may be done without violence. When the money dies, the middle class (those who earn enough to save or invest if they want), will be wiped out, hungry scared. Maloney thinks that if many middle classers have some gold, we can avoid the dictatorship. I think that bitcoin can fullfill this role. We need adoption to go to may be 10 per cent before the crisis. That is two years.

well, the way i see it, Bitcoin is waiting for something after having clearly broken the downtrend and made a significant move off the bottom.  that something is likely big.  and the move is likely to be UP.

And it's likely very soon. It will be epic as always

[cypherdoc]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

"country will relax" my ass. We shall starve and suffocate them.

The officials will have no budget. Their pensions are extinguished. Their salaries are inflated away. The politicians will be laughed at, when they try to offer spoils to the voters. The servicemen abroad will, when their machinery stops due to lack of maintenance, when they have no fuel for their warships for lack of pay, when they have no food left, quietly leave the warships, team up with a local woman and start small scale vegetable production, forget to write home.

You nailed it. Statists will have to compete for our bitcoins by offering their "services" on a voluntary basis. Fewer and fewer proposals will get funded and individuals overall will prosper. I can't think of a more exciting time to be alive.

The best part, it may be done without violence. When the money dies, the middle class (those who earn enough to save or invest if they want), will be wiped out, hungry scared. Maloney thinks that if many middle classers have some gold, we can avoid the dictatorship. I think that bitcoin can fullfill this role. We need adoption to go to may be 10 per cent before the crisis. That is two years.

well, the way i see it, Bitcoin is waiting for something after having clearly broken the downtrend and made a significant move off the bottom.  that something is likely big.  and the move is likely to be UP.

And it's likely very soon. It will be epic as always

yes, i neglected to say that. 

we won't be going sideways for 2 yrs that's for sure.

[cypherdoc]

"In the future, in the Internet generation, every country will slowly relax sovereign control and even dilute the concept of sovereignty."

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/pboc-official-sovereignty-bitcoin-internet-age-will-change-china-around-world/2014/07/07

"country will relax" my ass. We shall starve and suffocate them.

The officials will have no budget. Their pensions are extinguished. Their salaries are inflated away. The politicians will be laughed at, when they try to offer spoils to the voters. The servicemen abroad will, when their machinery stops due to lack of maintenance, when they have no fuel for their warships for lack of pay, when they have no food left, quietly leave the warships, team up with a local woman and start small scale vegetable production, forget to write home.

You nailed it. Statists will have to compete for our bitcoins by offering their "services" on a voluntary basis. Fewer and fewer proposals will get funded and individuals overall will prosper. I can't think of a more exciting time to be alive.

The best part, it may be done without violence. When the money dies, the middle class (those who earn enough to save or invest if they want), will be wiped out, hungry scared. Maloney thinks that if many middle classers have some gold, we can avoid the dictatorship. I think that bitcoin can fullfill this role. We need adoption to go to may be 10 per cent before the crisis. That is two years.

well, the way i see it, Bitcoin is waiting for something after having clearly broken the downtrend and made a significant move off the bottom.  that something is likely big.  and the move is likely to be UP.

And it's likely very soon. It will be epic as always

yes, i neglected to say that. 

we won't be going sideways for 2 yrs that's for sure.

2 years is a sure thing. I am thinking weeks though . (Of course it's impossible to be certain).

correct timeframe.  at most we're forming a bull flag that will take that long, but then...

[cypherdoc]

i'm pleased to say that on 7/4 at a party, i was able to send demo BTC to the iPhone of a CEO of a biotech company.  

i'd never browsed the iPhone app store before but simply searching "Bitcoin" brought up loads of stuff including a few wallets.  he was thoroughly impressed and had actually approached me about Bitcoin since he knew i was involved back when the price was around $80. he now gets it and will be entering the space i'm sure. 

i've been waiting to be able to do this for the longest time and it is a powerful way to demonstrate the utility of Bitcoin to anyone with a smartphone now.

[wachtwoord]

i've been waiting to be able to do this for the longest time and it is a powerful way to demonstrate the utility of Bitcoin to anyone with a smartphone now.

So as long as you've been holding? 

[cypherdoc]

“For us, bitcoin is more than a way of transferring money. It is an ideology of free people. [A government's] attitude to bitcoin is a litmus test, it shows the true face of the government. That’s why we support bitcoin,” he said."

http://www.coindesk.com/5000-terminals-across-ukraine-now-offer-bitcoin-cash/

[Melbustus]

...
Draper also said investors should have some bitcoin in their investment portfolios.
...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101816404


"Buy bitcoin" investment advice from a respected billionaire VC via CNBC. That seemed like a pipe-dream 3 years ago. I barely noticed today.

Furthermore, in keeping with this thread's theme, the language of that quote is exactly how people tend to suggest that others own gold in their portfolios. "gold" and "bitcoin" are substitutes in that sentence.

[Adrian-x]

"This could in effect make the banks part of what would begin to look like a war council,” Grayson said in an e-mail. “Congress needs to keep an eye on what something like this could mean.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-08/banks-dreading-computer-hacks-call-for-cyber-war-council.html

LOL, the council, that discusses the Bitcoin threat.
This scene played in my head (skulls = FRB) the moment I read the title I saw the mad dash at the end for Bitcoin, we going to have to hold on through thick and thin this ride is going to get wild.  

[Adrian-x]

...
Draper also said investors should have some bitcoin in their investment portfolios.
...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101816404

"Buy bitcoin" investment advice from a respected billionaire VC via CNBC. That seemed like a pipe-dream 3 years ago. I barely noticed today.

Furthermore, in keeping with this thread's theme, the language of that quote is exactly how people tend to suggest that others own gold in their portfolios. "gold" and "bitcoin" are substitutes in that sentence.

Still a lot of this talk is met with skepticism, my only hope is it ignites the question why?

To be honest if you are a GenX’er (in my experience) Gold is nothing, it's something that describes a colour and something that once represented value, and I’m often reminded “who do you know that invests in gold, followed by why?”

Often the conclusion is, gold is dead, its utilitarian value is orders of magnitude lower than its actual value, comparing Bitcoin to gold 2.0 lumps Bitcoin in with the dinosaurs. Bitcoin is a whole new concept, the boomers manipulating gold are going to be left holding the bag, and that includes all those central bankers. 

[cypherdoc]

Bitcoin is a whole new concept, the boomers manipulating gold are going to be left holding the bag, and that includes all those central bankers. 

yes, this is my feeling as well.

despite great efforts to suppress the gold price to maintain their fiat game, in the end, the CB's still consider it the core of their wealth system and will try to save it as a last resort.  after all, they still have some of it, while Bitcoin they don't.

hence, my diametrically opposed view on gold vs. Bitcoin ---> Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP. 

[User705]

PoW = economics of scale and division of labor guarantee eventual centralization.

Not necessarily: a byproduct of mining is heat. It's hard to get rid of the heat in large centralized operations. In small operations less so, it may even be useful in some cases.

At some point mining cost will mostly be energy, not hardware. I've recently encountered a weird situation regarding solar electricity production (pretty decentralized in germany, where I live): in certain cases the array produces excess electricity which can neither be used locally nor fed into the grid for profit (due to stupid laws and regulations). Usually what is done in such cases is the electricity is just injected for free to the grid... what a waste economically, right? Well, if you have some cheap asics (so cheap that you can just have them laying around idle if not needed) you can make good use of the excess electricity.

What you are describing is a mis-pricing of investment/expenses.  Just because a regular home miner severely undervalues his time invested in maintaining the equipment or the heat generated, those factors aren't immune to the economics of scale.  Eventually the huge hot ASIC box gets thrown out because it barely breaks even while for the industrial miner a huge hot ASIC box is just a small expense line in one of 1000s running in a huge warehouse.  Also there is no excess electricity.  Either it is subsidized somehow ie someone else is footing the bill or again the cost is simply mis-priced by the miner and eventually that cost will come to the forefront and the small time miner will be pushed out by larger commercial players.  You can't escape the benefits of division of labor. 

[cypherdoc]

PoW = economics of scale and division of labor guarantee eventual centralization.

Not necessarily: a byproduct of mining is heat. It's hard to get rid of the heat in large centralized operations. In small operations less so, it may even be useful in some cases.

At some point mining cost will mostly be energy, not hardware. I've recently encountered a weird situation regarding solar electricity production (pretty decentralized in germany, where I live): in certain cases the array produces excess electricity which can neither be used locally nor fed into the grid for profit (due to stupid laws and regulations). Usually what is done in such cases is the electricity is just injected for free to the grid... what a waste economically, right? Well, if you have some cheap asics (so cheap that you can just have them laying around idle if not needed) you can make good use of the excess electricity.

What you are describing is a mis-pricing of investment/expenses.  Just because a regular home miner severely undervalues his time invested in maintaining the equipment or the heat generated, those factors aren't immune to the economics of scale.  Eventually the huge hot ASIC box gets thrown out because it barely breaks even while for the industrial miner a huge hot ASIC box is just a small expense line in one of 1000s running in a huge warehouse.  Also there is no excess electricity.  Either it is subsidized somehow ie someone else is footing the bill or again the cost is simply mis-priced by the miner and eventually that cost will come to the forefront and the small time miner will be pushed out by larger commercial players.  You can't escape the benefits of division of labor. 

then why do junior mining companies or even smaller operations ever bother to mine gold when they're going up against the likes of Newmont and Barrick?

i think it's b/c the price is still high enough and the potential for future appreciation drives these smaller entities.  you could say the same for Bitcoin.

[thezerg]

  You can't escape the benefits of division of labor. 

You CAN when the cost of the labor approaches 0.  in the future: Buy commodity miner, hook up to thermostat, power, and internet.  Done.

[User705]

PoW = economics of scale and division of labor guarantee eventual centralization.

Not necessarily: a byproduct of mining is heat. It's hard to get rid of the heat in large centralized operations. In small operations less so, it may even be useful in some cases.

At some point mining cost will mostly be energy, not hardware. I've recently encountered a weird situation regarding solar electricity production (pretty decentralized in germany, where I live): in certain cases the array produces excess electricity which can neither be used locally nor fed into the grid for profit (due to stupid laws and regulations). Usually what is done in such cases is the electricity is just injected for free to the grid... what a waste economically, right? Well, if you have some cheap asics (so cheap that you can just have them laying around idle if not needed) you can make good use of the excess electricity.

What you are describing is a mis-pricing of investment/expenses.  Just because a regular home miner severely undervalues his time invested in maintaining the equipment or the heat generated, those factors aren't immune to the economics of scale.  Eventually the huge hot ASIC box gets thrown out because it barely breaks even while for the industrial miner a huge hot ASIC box is just a small expense line in one of 1000s running in a huge warehouse.  Also there is no excess electricity.  Either it is subsidized somehow ie someone else is footing the bill or again the cost is simply mis-priced by the miner and eventually that cost will come to the forefront and the small time miner will be pushed out by larger commercial players.  You can't escape the benefits of division of labor. 

then why do junior mining companies or even smaller operations ever bother to mine gold when they're going up against the likes of Newmont and Barrick?

i think it's b/c the price is still high enough and the potential for future appreciation drives these smaller entities.  you could say the same for Bitcoin.

Very true but we aren't comparing junior miners and large miners.  This is more of a comparison of panning for gold vs barrick.